I hope this story doesn't get too convoluted; it's quite long and complicated but I'd really appreciate some advice.

A couple of weeks ago I received a FB message from the boyfriend (Steve) of a friend of my wife's. It stated simply "Hi. Your wife is sleeping with John. I just thought you should know". It totally blew my find. I didn't know what to do or think, I was dizzy, trembling, basically just a complete wreck.

The back story is that John (who is married and has a son) and my wife are very good friends. They work together on freelance jobs which require travelling for up to 2 weeks at a time quite regularly. These trips are usually with a team of coworkers who have all become a group of close friends but every now and then the two of them will have a project where it's just them, entirely alone for a number of days. She is very open with me about their friendship and tells me all about their conversations, many of which are very deep. They definitely confide in one another and she considers him an important part of her life. So obviously it's easy for Steve's message to have planted seeds of doubt in my mind.

Now Steve went on to say that my wife had confided in his girlfriend (who is my wife's closest friend) that she is sleeping with John. He said he felt it wasn't fair to keep it to himself, even though we don't know each other at all. Pretty convincing story until I found out that shortly before he sent me the message he and his girlfriend had had a huge fight and she'd asked for a break, giving him motive to play her and my wife against each other in order to hurt her.

So did my wife confide in her friend and this is the truth? Did her friend make assumptions about my wife's relationship with John and tell them to Steve? Is Steve a narcissist and just made it all up to manipulate everyone against each other to hurt his girlfriend? Sounds like a soap opera!!!

Anyway, shortly after I received the message I read it to my wife. I had to. There was no chance I could get away with pretending nothing had happened as we were about to sit down and watch a movie on the couch. She was totally floored. She assured me that there was absolutely nothing at all romantic about her relationship with John, that he is more of a big brother type character to her (he is 10 years older than both of us). If Steve's story is true it would mean that my wife's friend had betrayed her trust so you'd expect anger as a reaction but that's not what she displayed.

Now I know when laying out the facts like this it looks like the odds are stacked in Steve's corner right? I know that's what I would think if someone told me the same thing about their partner. She is however unquestionably the most honest and forthright person I have ever met, she is brutally honest, it is something she is known for. We have been together for 14 years so I believe it is unlikely this is a character trait I am wrong about.

I'm not sure if I've explained this very clearly or not, my head's still quite muddled. If you've got this far, thanks I appreciate you hearing out my rambling. It's all even more complicated if you add in factors like my wife's friend being extremely unstable, wafts in and out of depression, is in a polyamorous relationship/s that aren't/isn't really working and isn't entirely trustworthy.

Looking forward to hearing if anyone can make head or tails of this mess.

Cheers.

Do you have spyware on your wife's devices so you can find out he truth?

How long have you been married?

No, I don't have spyware but I don't think that would really reveal anything. They see each other quite often, go the beach, hiking etc. and I always know about it and am always welcome to join, it just so happens to generally be when I'm busy.

Been married for 4 years but together in total for 14.

Hi Dex, welcome to Marriage Builders. If your wife hasn't had an affair yet, she will eventually because this situation is exactly how affairs start. This is how all of the thousands of affairs on this forum began, with opposite sex friendships. In your case the risk is quadrupled because she travels with this man. She spends more time with him than she does you. It is the perfect set up for an affair.

Secondly, your marriage can't possibly be very integrated and intimate because she is traveling. This is how couples grow apart emotionally.

The vast majority of people don't set out to have affairs. Because of poor boundaries, they find themselves getting close to some "friend" and before they know it, they are in love. The set up for these affairs is having personal conversations, eventually they become very close and intimate. That is what has happened here.

Instead of assigning strange motivations to the man who told you, I would suggest quietly investigating and getting the facts about the affair. This man has given you a great gift: a chance to save your marriage. You are about to lose your marriage and can save this if you will investigate and get the facts. If you will do that, we will help you save this.

I will add that your lifestyles do not support marriage. Your attitude about opposite sex friendships is dangerous and unwise. Her traveling job will not support a marriage. So those are changes that will have to take place. But first things first, you must quietly get the evidence of the affair.

I believe you that she is a very honest person. HOWEVER, if she is having an affair, she will not be utilizing this character trait, I assure you. Most people who have affairs are otherwise very honest, good people. They get carried away with a bad situation and become addicted.

You might know your wife, but we know waywards. You do not. If she is having an affair, she is wayward and is acting out of character. Asking her is a waste of time.

It's too bad that you shared the Facebook message with her. If she is having an affair, and there is a very good chance she is (read Meloday Lane's post above), then now she will take it underground taking extra measures to keep it a secret. You may opt to have your wife take a polygraph to prove that she has not slept with this man. That will get you a definitive answer. And often when a suspected wayward spouse is asked to take one, they come clean before they take it. A polygraph may seem to you to be a radical idea, but as Melody Lane mentioned above, the situation you are in ripe for an affair, and we have read here about 1000's of betrayed spouses who's stories have started out just like yours. There's plenty to smoke here.

Another option is to plant a Voice Activated Recorder in places where she might talk on the phone with him. Suggestions include under the bed or under the driver's seat.
You have to snoop if you are not going to have her take the Polygraph, but the polygraph is the most efficient way of handling this. Do not let her know you are snooping. Be stealth and don't bring up the affair any more until you've gotten your evidence. You must understand that if she is having an affair, you cannot fix your marriage until you have FIRST killed the affair. We see a lot of betrayed spouses come here who try and fix the marriage but don't take the steps necessary to end the affair, and that strategy NEVER works.

Dex, I would most definitely get spyware on her devices and/or hire a PI. A good PI can get everything you need in a couple of days. I do think that polygraphs can be valuable, but they won't get you the FACTS that you need to fight an affair.

Did you live together for those 14 years? Or were you just dating?

We've lived together for 7 years. Married for 4.

What is your plan? Are you going to hire a PI? Put spyware on her devices?

Welcome to MB.

One of the problems with asking someone if they are having an affair, is that they never ever tell the truth. An affair is like an addiction, and even the most normally honest person will lie to protect it. In this case, the affair sounds like it has been going on for some time, and it is very entrenched. They have becomed accostomed to not having to sneak around because their 'friendship' is completely out in the open. They have the blessing of everyone around them to act like a couple... hang out together as a couple would, have deep conversations as a couple would, and even travel alone together...all with the approval of everyone around them including their spouses! Of course there is not much for lying or sneaking around because they are carrying on right in front of you.

For the record, you will not find one single person in a good marriage having this kind of relationship with a 'friend' of the opposite sex. I do these things with my husband, not another guy... Your description of this friendship is the description of a very entrenched affair my friend.

You don't have to believe me. You don't have to believe this kind hearted soul who just decided that you should not be left in the dark, either. You can do your own investigative work and find out the truth on your own. Realize that just checking her phone logs or text logs like other people will not help you, because you already know they talk 'deeply' all the time. Realize also you have now tipped her off so if she is having an affair and there is evidence beyond that, she will be very careful for awhile. I would suggest a VAR in her vehicle or any other place she might frequently speak to him. You need to know the *content* of the conversation.

You are right. To the average person this would sound shady. To those of us who have been on the Surviving an Affair board for YEARS, this is the making of a deeply entrenched affair. But we are not going to tell you to just trust us on this, we are going to tell you to do some investigative work and get the facts on your own.

There are people on this board who are very honest, forthright people. They are here day after day, learning Dr Harley's concepts and 'paying if forward' by helping people in desperate times. They are loving, considerate people who want to help others.

And they have had affairs.

There are many people on this board who had spouses who were loving family men and women. They were great husbands, wives, fathers and mothers. They were hard workers and took care of their family.

And then they had an affair.

You see, affairs are like an addiction. The high of having one is like being drunk, you do not think clearly or respond in a reasonable way. This is called the 'affair fog.' People in the fog do things out of character for them. They jeapordize their marriage, family, careers, their whole lives just to keep getting hit with the high.

Dr Harley says that any one could have an affair given the right circumstances. And your wife has created the perfect storm for falling in love and having an affair! Affairs happen when one person has poor boundaries and allows someone other than their spouse to fill their needs and make lovebank deposits. The four most intimate needs, that make the greatest LB deposits, are affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment. Surely you can see that her 'friend' has been meeting at least the first 3 needs for some time. THIS is how someone falls in love, and how affairs start.

These are dates.

I don't go to the beach with a man I'm not married to unless I am dating him. This is courtship behavior.

Of course you are invited. They will do anything to try to hide the obvious in plain sight -- but, how convenient for them that it's at a time when you are busy!

Most affairs start as friendships. It is very common for a wayward to say "He's just my friend."

And the thing is, we could sit here all day going back and forth about how it could be an affair, or maybe it's just a friendship, but then again, what if .....

Your best course of action is to quietly snoop and find out the truth. Then you will know who to believe.. Snooping is going to be harder now, because you told your wife what Steve said. They will now go to great lengths to try to hide and cover up the affair. So you are going to have to snoop harder and longer to find the truth.

Thanks guys.

I appreciate the advice, it's just a lot to digest. On the snooping side I have the disadvantage of not really being able to afford a PI or expensive software. The currency I earn is pretty weak so apps for $100 simply aren't viable for me. Any suggestions in this regard?

Here is my suggestion Dex, find the money for a VAR. I think they are under $100. Divorce will be much more expensive than a VAR.

I would figure out a way to pay for spyware. Divorce is much more expensive and that is where you are headed right now.

Divorce will force money out of you that you didn't think you had. You might as well figure out how to buy a VAR and also on this very forum in Operation Investigate there are lots of ideas. Many softwares have a free trial. You may feel discouraged but gtake charge and get creative.

Use cash to buy it so there's no tracing it back to you. Practice with it before hiding it up or under her driver's seat in her car using velcro to secure it so it doesn't slide around. Be sure your voice is NOT on the recorder at all so you can deny hiding it or that it's yours if it's ever discovered. everyone messes up hitting "stop" or "pause" when hiding it so practice getting it right before you nervously actually do it.

Hide the receipt well and you can even return it in 30 or 60 days for your full money back.

THEN - Stir the pot and create situations that even if they have tried to take it underground, they simply have to call each other and talk about "it".

Some stirring of the pot:

1. Whether it's true what the guy told you or not - the coworkers wife should be told the possible truth about her life as well. She can make her own assessment of the veracity of the information herself. That would be her right. Don't discuss it with your wife first. Plus, maybe she's sick of her husband's lifestyle and inappropriate relationship with your wife and she'll be the one to actually yank her husband away from your wife without you having to do it. No matter what - it's inappropriate.

2. My guess is the huge blowout between your wife's friend and boyfriend was over his insistence to tell you about the affair and the girlfriend's fear of the consequences and repercussions. Send him another message and tell him you are inclined to believe him 98% and ask his opinion of the excuses and story you were given. Hopefully he give you a couple more details.

Another big reason your wife will flat out lie besides protecting her way of life (job) and family/marriage is to protect her coworker/friend and his marriage/family from exposure. They mistakenly would believe that exposure is what causes the damage to their primary relationships versus the fact they have or are (sometimes???) having sex while working long trips.

I know it sounds a little extreme but the harder and better you work this investigation for the truth NOW while the facts are hopefully still obtainable the more easily you will be able to trust you actually got the truth versus carrying around seeds of doubt the rest of your life. If she's lying, she will lie until you break the wall of denial. Waywards ALWAYS think you that if you weren't actually in the room videotaping them, that they can deny it until the ends of the earth. Thus, there's no pointing in asking her about it anymore except to provoke her to run to her car and drive somewhere so she can call him (or some girlfriend of hers) to discuss how to handle the "emergency" you are creating.

I disagree about warning OM's wife, I think you need to snoop FIRST and get the facts. Otherwise, you will be tipping them off to your snooping, as well as bringing a theory to his wife that you have no proof to substantiate.

I do understand what you are saying MrWondering, I just think there are risks with going that route without getting the proof FIRST.

You mentioned OM is in a polyamorous relationship, I don't know what that means.

It is the wife's friend - the woman whose boyfriend rang Dex - who is in a polyamorous relationship. Presumably, that means that "Steve", her boyfriend is, also.

It's irrelevant to Dex's situation, but it means "loving many" - i.e swinging and open relationships.

Thanks SC.

I read that as his wife's friend as in the OM, since he considers this to be his wife's friend.

You are right that it is irrelevant

Yeah, I kind of forgot to say try the VAR for few days first and try to get what you can and if you seem to be hearing nothing you may want to provoke some reactions like I suggested.

The reason that I think it is the woman best friend is because Dex was unsure whether to trust the information for several reasons, one of which was because the best friend, who told her boyfriend "Steve", was unstable etc.