This isn't for me but for a friend who has been struggling with affairs. Yes, plural "affairs." I'm talking more than I can count.

I've tried getting her on the MB site but she hasn't yet that I know of. She has been having affairs for years, and as far as I know her BH knows about them (or some of them, since even I don't know about them all, I'm sure), but no matter how hard she tries to quit, she can't. She has been diagnosed with a mental illness, but so far the medicine hasn't helped her to stop the compulsive behavior. If indeed she has a mental illness, is there any way for her to stop? She's terrible with setting boundaries, and her BH doesn't enforce them either.

Is it possible she doesn't actually have a mental illness, and if she doesn't, then what is causing her to act so compulsively? These affair partners are totally random people she meets everywhere she goes, not anyone she is in love with, so it makes no sense to me and I honestly don't know how to help her.

She's felt suicidal over it, but her BH doesn't really get involved in helping her stop. He tries to romance her, but it's not working to fill her love bank.

I'm baffled on how to help her because the mental illness takes the blame, but certainly she can't go on living like this destructive behavior. What advice can I give her?

I would cut her off as a friend and keep her far away from your marriage.
Let her work out her issues with a psychiatrist if she honestly can't control herself.
But a woman like that could have an affair with your husband!

Do prostitutes have mental illnesses?
Do most serial killers have a mental illness?
Do some school teachers, doctors and gas station attendants have mental illnesses?

Mental illness is very common because it is diagnosed more today. But it doesnt condemn us to be serial cheaters. That's a choice we make.

We've been friends for decades, and her BH is my BH's best friend. It's not easy to just cut them out. I really do want to help her. My BH thinks she's a whore and repulsive, so I'm not too worried about her trying anything with my BH. Plus, BH and I set VERY good boundaries for each other. We don't go out without each other EVER (and we are happy with that!). She's seen countless therapists... I keep telling her to e-mail Dr H, but she hasn't yet. Does Dr H deal with mental illness?

What mental illness causes one to have affairs??

And why oh why, would you gave a faithless, lying, cheating wh*re for a friend?? THAT IS YOUR idea of friend material?

I know, I know...but we have been friends for our entire lives. And my BH doesn't want to lose her BH as a friend either. I can't just shut her out of my life because she's doing this. If I cut out all friends who sin, I'd have no one left, since we all have our failures and flaws.

She knows how much I hate what she does. She just can't stop. I don't know why.

She thinks she is bipolar. I'm not sure what bipolar looks like, or what mental illness would perpetuate cheating, but my advice to her was that if her mental illness compells her her cheat, then she should be single. That's the only advice I can offer. I don't know what else to say.

I've suggested setting boundaries, but she tries and then fails. I suggested medicine, but it's not working. I suggested MB, but she hasn't done that yet. I'm running out of suggestions, and her BH is totally clueless on how to help her. He doesn't do anything about it.

First off, bipolar does not cause affairs. SEEKING OUT AFFAIRS causes affairs. And you need to use some basic discernment in your choice of friends. You should cut out any friend who is destructive and corrupt. C'mon, have you no standards? When you lie down with dogs, you are apt to wake up with fleas. Maintaining this "friend" only serves to enable her. And if she ever wakes up from her sin, she won't remember you fondly. Do to be an enabler, want healing!

And yes she can stop. She won't stop.

The one who needs therapy is the BH and her enabling friends. She has no reason to stop because she is surrounded by enablers.

So the only way to stop enabling her is to break off the friendship? I suppose it makes sense if nothing changes, though I feel like someone has to look out for her BH. He's got no one to turn to right now other my BH (who thinks they should divorce). He refuses to tell his family. Flat out won't do it.

What about my BH and her BH's friendship? Should my BH end his friendship with her BH as well?

I would have nothing to do with these people and tell the BH and his skanky wife why you won't be around them anymore. Make sure he knows everything you know about her affairs. Tell her when she stops behaving like an unpaid wh*re she can give you a call. She is not friend material, my friend.

I do not have one single friend who would tolerate that behavior from me because they care too much.

You cannot look out for the BH. He has chosen to be an enabler. You have no control over him. He is not a victim, but a volunteer.

That's what I thought about my friend/OW.

We all grew up together and he was apalled at her promiscuity. She was also fairly unattractive. He would never have asked her on a date; this was when everyone was single. I simply never saw her as a threat. I remained her friend because as I saw it, she was only hurting herself. How naive.

When she married my husband's best friend they seemed happy but he always thought his friend had settled low.

In a situation like this: a pro with access to your H, you only need one thing to happen to set the tinder alight. A promiscuous women knows her way around the love bank. She only has to make one or two deposits and she becomes appealing to the very man who despised her.

Sure, it took her many years and some key opportunities in the drama of life but she found the chink in his armour one day.

Added to all of this you aren't being very good friends to this couple at all. She needs exposure to her husband, not listening to this claptrap about mental illness. Why on earth would you believe that he knows unless you've spoken to him?

Your first responsibility is to your marriage. Easy or not.

Losing a friend might be the very wake up call she needs. That's how exposure works. It's terrifically damaging of you to listen seriously to these foggy justications.

It's also massively uncaring to let her anywhere near your husband! It's not trust, it's apathy and a sign friendships are more important than the marriage.

To stop being a slut...and yes that is what she is...before she destroys herself, her life and other people's. After being on MB and your own affair fallout, why you would be friends with this woman is beyond me.

I think you're all right... even though I hate having to walk away. I feel an obligation to help, mainly because I've seen the success of MB and know how to fix a broken marriage, but the difference is that I WANTED to change and invest in healing my M. If there is no desire to change, I guess it's pretty hopeless for me to try to help. Especially if it puts my M at risk, which no friendship is worth.

I just wish I could leave her with a final game plan to change, but I suppose my numerous recommendations to get on MB gave her that. Mental illness or not, I can't help someone who has no clue how to set boundaries and keep them.

She knows how to stop, she WON'T STOP. Give her this game plan: STOP IT. That is the game plan. And quit blaming your "mental illness."

Scummy people will bring you down to their own level eventually. She will be a poison in your life and you can't afford to get dragged down into the sewer with her.

Since you are likely cutting out the friendship as unhealthy to you and feel bad about leaving your husband's friend, friendless, why not do the exposure for him. He might be mad as Haddes for a bit...but at least he'll have the support of his family and loved ones as he decides what to do about his situation in time.

The only way she'll stop is through medication which is closely monitored trying to level out the peaks and valleys AND accountability. Everyone should know about her condition and her tendencies and help her avoid such. For example, a bi-polar serial cheating person should not have unattended internet access. Not only is it a dangerous breading ground for infidelity it's also incredibly annoying to us posters trying to help someone that we have no idea (at first) is mentally ill. I say that second part in jest because we've had some real dousey's come through MB over the years with their outright lies, manipulation, grandiose ideas and self righteous indignation. It's really confusing and they just suck so much energy out of the place while wasting everyone's time seeking a bunch of admiration while lying their butts off the whole time.

Bipolar known serial cheats that want to remain married also need to completely eliminate any and all interactions with the opposite sex outside of the presence of their spouse. This isn't an easy agreement to garner from the often very gregarious and outgoing bipolar personality and it's often a hard agreement to maintain because, like you are aware, they are overcome with compulsions and when cycling following rules isn't their strong suit at all.

I would also recommend eliminating their access to any and all family monies. They will completely blow it at some point or another.

Your friend's wife is on a one way trip to suicide. An unmonitored uncontrolled and acting out cycling manic bi-polar's life expectancy is probably around 55 years old. Whether they self medicate themselves to death with booze and drugs or they kills themselves it's a sad pathetic tragic life.

Tough position. Your husband's friend needs help from family and professionals and unless he gets honest he's ruining his life AND his wife's just burying his head in the sand. Maybe exposing her (and them) to his family won't ever lead them to the help they desperately need but it might just kick them in that direction/path and they'll thank you for it one day.

Don't threaten or discuss it with them. Call his family and friends or do it through internet communications and expose them with a message that they (that couple) both need love, support and to be encouraged to seek substantial professional assistance.

Mr. W

Send her BH here to MB.

Wanthealing,

At the very least you need to inform her BH of what STDs, HPV/AIDS/Etc can do to him. With WW seeing so many people he should as a minimum wear protection if he has relations with his WW and not engage in any oral.



This is on top of the psychological torture her BH must feel.

If you know more than the BH, then you can no longer act as a friend to that couple in good faith, you have become an enabler of her affairs.

I hope your children do not view this WW as an Auntie figure.

God Bless
Gamma

Mr. Wondering, I appreciate you addressing the mental illness aspect. Thanks.

So, I told my friend I had to walk away from the friendship until she makes changes. Apparently it motivated her to want to expose everything to her BS, which she needs guidance on. The mere numbers of men is uncountable, so she didn't know how yo proceed with exposure. Should she give details? Should she give numbers (even she can't count them though). How should this conversation go? And then what? Medication and then what?

She should write out a timeline that gives dates, names, places, activities, etc. She should write a story. And she should also change her lifestyle so this doesn't happen again. Here is the checklist:

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

I think she is dragging you along.
She is suddenly willing to expose all of her affairs just because you said you won't be her friend anymore?

I hope she is serious.

Did it motivate her to CHANGE though?

Well, exposure apparently happened and her BH now realizes just how severe it was. They set boundaries for her together and it seems they have a rough plan of action, plus meds, to get her on track. I'm proud of her for taking the most difficult step of exposure, which should perpetuate a new lifestyle (I hope). I'm passing your list, MelodyLane, to her so that they can follow it.

I told her not to do this for our friendship but for her marriage, but she admitted she needed the extra motivation to finally reveal all. And to boot, she even accepted responsibility for the choices without blaming bipolar. Knowing her as I do, that was huge for her.

We'll see how it goes from here. I live hrs away, so I'm going on what she tells me via text and phone calls, but my BH will be checking in with hers this week.

Very proud of you, want healing! What you did was a true act of friendship. You told your friend you would not by while she harmed others and herself. See how that motivated her to change? You woke her up!

Also, have you spoken to her husband to make sure she told him?

Wow, now that's what I call friendship.

A lot is dependent on the couple now but you've done as much as a friend can.

wanthealing,

Glad you stepped up, I can't tell you how often I've seen bystanders turn a blind eye, while the betrayed spouse suffered in a damaged marriage.

Suggest to the BH that his WW take a polygraph, DNA testing if they have children, STD testing, and write out a journal of her activities as Melody also suggested.

God Bless
Gamma

I'm so glad she actually woke up. And I'm glad our friendship didn't have to suffer. She actually thanked me for threatening the relationship. Apparently I was the only friend who thought exposure was a good idea! Makes you wonder what other marriages are like...

So my BH confirmed with her BH everything she told him, and her BH is ready to really establish boundaries and follow Dr. H. My BH sent him the MB link and will order him the book too. Luckily he understands how bad her condition is now. I appreciate the advice. I just hope the mental illness aspect of it doesn't cause her to backside down the road. She keeps trying different meds but ends up at one extreme or the other--a lifeless zombie or manic and compulsive. There's no in-between.

Kids were already DNA tested at birth behind her husband's back years ago. The polygraph wasn't really necessary because she told him more than he could handle anyways. The numbers were too many to count, so she plans to leave her work and try to work with BH since they both agree there is no safe place other than in his sight at all times. I'll mention the std test to her.

Is she getting her meds from a psychiatrist or her MD?

Does her BH go with her to her appointments?

Psychiatrist. Should her BH be going with her?

wanthealing,

What is her BH going to do when the numbness wears off?

Are any of these OM going to be exposed? None of these affairs turned romantic?

God Bless
Gamma

It's probably a good idea to have her husband go with her. Some doctors won't allow it, but others may value his objective input.

Ideally, yes.
When Dr. Harley operated mental health clinics (he had the largest chain in Minnesota) he approached therapy with the spouse always in the loop.
The focus should always be on improving the marital relationship.

Your friends would need to carefuly follow the program in Surviving an Affair and they will also likely need to move.

Yes he should. He needs to be very involved with her treatment. He needs to be educated on her illness. So he knows when she tries to use it as an excuse.

Good points about BH joining in her therapy. I'll suggest it.

I would agree that they should move, though I highly doubt they will. Considering there were so many OMs, and a handful of them were romantic, I can't see how staying where they are will be safe. But relocating when they both have good jobs, in their dream home, and are in a good school district...I don't see them willingly leaving that all. Is there any way they can avoid that step but still protect their marriage to the fullest?

No. They would need to move if there was any possibility of them seeing a former affair partner.
They will both be constantly triggered.