13 Months and still hurting - Marriage Builders® Forums

Any suggestions, sort of on a downer I got the last phone bill from when my wife was home and did a revesse lookup of a number I figured was her boy friend. There it was name and address, I have never felt this much anger, I wanted to go to the house and beat him to an unreconizable condition then leave some pictures of the family that he is helping destroy. I want to call him so bad to tell him what he's doing but feel that would just make my wife more distant than ever before. How the hell do you get rid of this pain? Its lasting way too long and could use some insight, especially from woman that have left their husbands and then wanted to get back. What changed your mind. Thanks, Ken

Im sorry that you feel so terriable Ken. Keep in mind that it isnt the "other"mans fault. Its your wifes also. Something drove her to him. It may of not been something big, but something made her look the other way. If you love her, and want her back, you need to tell. Maybe in a letter, email. something. You are right, blowing up in front of them is NOT the answer, you willl make her VERY distant. Try to move on and let her SEE that you have moved on. Then she will see that she doesnt have this grip on you. Right now, she knows she can hurt you b/c you are taking it. Continue to work, do projects. Maybe you could invite her over on a date, cook her dinner. Do something that she always wanted you to do...like cook or clean the place up. Your going to have to prove yourself now, wether you like it or not. I wish you well but please remember, anger isnt going to bring her back. She IS thinking of you...and probably often..dont give her any reason to stop..

Dawn, Like the Dr says a person that would get involved with a married person has some charector flaws that my wife will see sooner than I think. He does live 60 miles away so they dont see each other that often for her to see any flaws she just wants to see him more. Your last sentence was something that made me feel good, I just wish I could belive it, Thanks..........Ken

By the way should I move on like you said or tell her I love her and invite her over for dinner. She wont go out with me and has a hard time just being around me because I think she feels guilty. She cant look me in the eye, when she does look at me and I look back she will turn her head. Damm its been a long time waiting for a real kiss and hug from the woman I love so much. I should hate her by now shouldent I?

No you shouldn't hate her - you love her - this is the woman you married. Don't feel wrong for your loving feelings. It is FINE. I divorced my ex for many reasons that I felt needed to continue with life - but I can sit here and tell you that the love I felt for him does NOT go away. And you don't have to make it go away. Time plays a big part in all this. It will take her time to see what she is missing with a very loving husband. It will take her time to REALLY miss you. I agree that she IS thinking of you. She has to be. Marriage and feelings just don't go away. People may not admit them - but the love you had is there. Whatever the problem was with your marriage that caused this will come to focus sometime and she will SEE that. It sounds like she turns her head because she does not want to see the hurt she is putting you through. If she is hurting for you then you must know that she does still love you deep inside. Or it would NOT hurt her. I wouldn't PRESSURE her for a date or dinner; take your time and let her take her time - I believe from the sounds of her actions and emotions she loves you and will be back. I don't know the advice, but have many friends this has happened to and the sooner she thinks you are moving on with your life; the more of a threat that she may LOSE you hits her. Thats when a lot of people realize what they really want - when THEY risk losing the other person. I would definitely let her know that I love her and that you truly want your family to be back together - but I wouldn't push her too hard. Maybe some space and time is all she will need. I think she still loves you.

Ken,I think you will still hurt until you know which way this is going to go. Right now you are in limbo and you can't let your feelings heal or change because you are not sure what they will need to heal from or change to. I wish you luck. My prayers are with you.Steph [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

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Cndy, Damm I wish I could belive you. She does not show it by going out with other guys thats for sure. Thank you for the comforting words, its just that people allways say give it a little time. To me a little time is 6 months or so. its over a year! What is little?

Ken, I think that you are right, in that its been over a year. She may be thinking of moving on or maybe she is waiting for you to "prove" that you still love her. Some woman, you can say you love them till your blue in the face but they need to be shown. I would call her up and ask her to come over, tell her you have something you'd like to show her. Have a nice dinner prepared, look and smell irrisistable....soft music..then when she comes in ask her"would have dinner with me?" I doubt she would turn you down, since you went through so much trouble. Then you could gradually talk durind dinner. Ask her how she's been and then maybe ask her where you stand in her life. If you can just get her alone and have a serious talk, maybe you can find some answers to your question. I agree with cndy on why she turns her face. She STILL loves you but for some reason, she doesnt want you to know that yet....

Dawn, I love your suggestion but I feel it would be putting pressure on her and make her feel guilty if she said no. I'm trying to do what she has asked me for and that is dont pressure her and let her find her own way. She asks that I let her come to me, what ever that means. I cant understand why you and Cndy both think she still loves me. To me if she loved me why would she continue to put me thru so much emotional pain. What is this a test? Thanks, Ken

Dawn,Cndy,and anyone else. Could you please explain why you feel my wife still loves me. I do know that she is comfortable not having to deal with my feelings and I think she's afraid of getting hurt, could that be it. She also has a hard time being at the house when she comes over. Like she cant get out fast enough. Oh when I told her I was dropping the divorce she told me she was in no hurry but had to end it with so I'll still have medical benifits. Any time she does something for me she has to mention why she's doing it, like I did it because you helped with this or that. to me it seems like theres some reason for the replies I get from her. Either theres something there and she doesent want me to know OR she dosent want me to get false hope. Her Mom told me that she never mentioned that I dropped the divorce. I would love to get some womans intuition to help me figure this out. Ken

KenS - In answer to your question (and I may not be the best one to answer this) - I feel like she still loves you because I DO NOT believe that people fall out of love. I just don't think it happens. If you love someone; you love them. Period. Things, feelings, emotions, affairs, whatever may get in the way and distract those feelings, but I just can't see it happening. (for instance, with my ex of a 10 yr marriage which was destroyed due to his other women, games, his drinking, etc) - they all got in the way. But to this day; I still love him. And I always will. I think she loves you and something or SOMEONE is in the way right now. Hopefully, before you end up divorced (and I think its great you dropped the divorce) whatever it is thats in the way will get out and you two can move on with your life. I pray for you that it happens. That didn't happen for me and I went thru with my divorce and have regretted it (as I got older and matured and realized I should have waited it out even if it DID take the YEARs it did for him to change). If you can handle it mentally, stick it out!

Ken,This is just my opinion. I would imagine that your wife qualifies everything (I did this because) because it is a way to not be indebted to you. She doesn't want to feel like she owes you anything and doesn't want you to feel like you owe her anything. It is a way to keep things separate. I agree with you that she is afraid of being hurt. It could be that things went to far for her. She probably does still love you. She may even think that you are a great person and a wonderful father. In the same instance she can also believe that she can not be with you again. All I can compare it to is your alcoholism. Some people can drink and handle it ok. They have it once in awhile and do fine. Others can't drink at all because it is a problem. Alcohol is not a problem by itself but together with that persons personality it is a bad combination. She is recovering from a relationship that was not good for her. I know you have changed and that she has even admitted to some of your changes but as a wife in this situation it is hard to look at it and think that the changes are for good. She may not be willing to take that risk again. A glance into my own world. I started to let down the wall only to see that his depression is back in full force, even on meds. I'm not saying that is it unlikely that she will ever come back. The fact that she is not pushing the divorce is a good sign. She mays say it is for insurance but that is just to protect herself. She seems to be waiting on you to see how permanent the changes are. I think you need to decide (and I think you have) if you want to keep trying with her or move on. If you want to keep trying then it is going to be a matter of being consistent and taking the hints from her as to how far you can push it. It may take a long time. The wall didn't get built over night or even in two years I would imagine. My prayers are with you as always. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Steph

Steph and Ken - I can relate to the alcohol thing maybe being a REAL big scary part for her as I can relate to that one myself also. After 9 yrs and 2 children, I too, gave up on my husband EVER changing due to alcohol. He drank so much that some nites I didn't know if he was coming home. Sometimes he didn't for 2 nites. On our 9 yr anniversary we went out and I couldn't find him. We had rented a hotel room and so I went to the room to phone my sister. There I found him in the bed with another woman (a friend of mine). Two days later he "claims" he doesn't remember the entire situation (probably didn't) and doesn't know if they DID anything or not. After many tears and dropping about 30 pounds; I couldn't mentally handle it anymore and had him leave. I filed and I divorced him. That was 9 Long, hard hears ago. Once or twice we almost reconciled; on few occassions got together and went out (I always loved him) but the drinking took over and I realized how much more stable I was without it and the worrys it brought me for myself and my kids. I built a serious wall of doubt with him and went my separate way. I remarried 6 years ago, Within the last two years, my ex FINALLY decided to change. He stopped drinking. He started being a GREAT dad. (He coaches both the boys in sports). He get them every other weekend and even comes to ALL their school functions, EVERYTHING. He dated, he married, and he divorced (drinking agaiin) - so he has been thru a lot. Maybe thats what made him change. I saw him last nite (it was our sons - me an dmy ex - 9th grade football banquet) and it hurts me to this day to see him SO MUCH BETTER and the person he is now. Why? Because I am remarried now and I cannot be with the person I loved from day one due to his faults. He doesn't have those faults anymore (like you don't) and he has changed. Still I wonder in my mind if he will ever turn back the way he was - but I can tell you Ken that the love NEVER died for me. It just hurts more now because he is NOW who I married and wanted to stay married to 15 years ago. My point? I can see her confusion to thinking that your change is permanent. WHAT IF always stays in the back of your mind. It did mine. But also if she LOVES you like I did - hopefully she will stick it out long enough to wait for time to go by and realize you have changed for good. At least you two still have the opportunities and changes to be a family. I don't.

Thanks ladies, from the sounds of what you said I guess she still loves me but not as a husband and at this moment is looking to move on. At least thats the way it appears to me and I feel like I'm at the end of my emotional rope. If I only knew things were going to get better it would be so much easier to wait around. Maybe I should move on and look for someone else and if I find someone then I guess thats what was ment to be. My only problem with dating is that I know I'll be settling for 2nd best. Its been that way every time I've gone out with someone. I fear a new relationship because I could hurt someone else if my wife chose to come home. What a ****ty situation to be in. CNDY- how long was it before you noticed your ex was doing well? Steph- I sometimes feel that your right that she has just made up her mind to move on and thats that. She runs on emotions and feelings. She's also very stubburn when she makes up her mind and she's also one of those that are too proud. She has a problem of the I knows, and dose not listen to suggestions. Any positive feed back would be appreciated. I'v had enough of the truth. Ken

My ex started chaning about a year and a half ago - after his second divorce. He ( I think) just grew up and started realizing that the alcohol WAS affecting all of his relationships and the relationship with the kids. My kids had started to quit trusting him; they didn't want to visit with him because if they went out to eat; he wanted to always stay REAL late, etc. so he could have a few more drinks, etc. I had to tell him one weekend why our oldest son (now 15) didn't want to go and it killed him. I heard his hurt thru the phone and I felt his pain. He called me the next day and said he was going to change and the kids meant everything to him. He's done much better since then. I think he is like your wife; once he is left alone - he is stubborn and he isn't ever going back. I wouldn't necessarily try to "find someone else" - I would WAIT until if and when the divorce happens. I would socialize to keep yourself busy, but don't look for anyone. If somone comes along, thats another story. Just let nature take its course; you don't want to jump too soon with so much hurt and pain. BUT, I understand how you feel and wouldn't want to wait my life away for someone who you don't know if they will ever come back. I did that, I waited and waited and got remarried. Then he changed. Funny how things work out.

Come on I dont need any more truths. Why did you have to tell me your ex is like my wife. That once her mind is made up she's never comming back.

Sorry, didn't mean she wasn't coming back. What I really mean was about the being stubborn and resisting things. As if almost an ego thing. Like, I've made my mind up. BUT, thats not to say what she would do AFTER the fact. I really didn't mean that. And if that were true - my ex decided he DID want to come back and have his family together. Unfortunately, it was too late and I was remarried. I didn't mean to hurt you, I'm not here for that.

KenS,I think it is very possible that your wife will come back to you. If you are asking me to tell you when I can't. You need to take care of you. You seem anxious to have this be over (and I don't blame you)but as others have testified for every two steps foreward we all take one back. We still have foreward progress but it is much slower than we would like. If you are willing to stick to this for a while I would do things for your wife. I know she asked you to give her space but I would do things that are not romantic just nice. Be her friend again. Gain her trust back as a friend and then go from there. Just be sure to take care of yourself emotionally. Don't let it get to you. My prayers are with you as always. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Steph

I agree with Steph - maybe thats the best beginning is to ONLY try to gain her friendship again. Doing just nice things and not romantic things. Just let her know your going to be there for her as a friend also if she needs one. My prayers are with you and I hope it works out to make your heart happy!

Cndy, I was half kidding when I wrote that. I dident mean to make ya feel bad, Just a bad attempt at humor on a bad day. I have told you both before that I do anything she asks of me and I also offer help when she seems she needs it. Mostly taking the boys for a couple hours so she can do whatever or taking them over night a couple extra nights when she she seems stressed. She has been complanining about how stressed out the kids make her and how hard it is to control our youngest son who has add/adhd. She calls sometime crying she cant take it. So I tell her to calm down that I'll watch the boys some extra so she has some time for herself. I do help her around her apt when she needs it. The part that gives me a hard time with her is that she tells me she cant take the stress anymore but never thinks about returning as a option. I know her life is a lot easier if she was home but shes roughing it out and thats why I get negetive feelings about us. Maybe I should just tell her that she made her bed now she has to sleep in it. Thats what I want to say a lot of times. Maybe I should just stop taking my time alone to make her fell better by taking the boys. Who knows, I'd cut off an arm to have her back and maybe thats the problem. I'm doing too much for her and making it easy. I keep getting conflicting advice on this decision. Some say do it all for her and others say do nothing and let her suffer the conscuences of her decision. It going on 14 months of tourcher and at times I feel I cant go on. I really appreciate you ladies taking the time to post with your thoughts and insight of the womans mind :-) it helps a lot to hear from you all that you think my wife still loves me because when your the one thats in it you dont see it. i know I can give advice but its hard to take even your own advice. Thanks a bunch, GOD Bless tou all. Ken

thats a tough one - to leave her alone and not be so convenient to her needs or to be there. I definitely feel that your kids shouldn't pay the price - so for THEM; I would be there. I'd take all the opportunities to have them and be with them. And maybe you are being to EASY for her and its making it easier for her not to really MISS you and all the things you do for her. Maybe her way of thinking is that if she can still have your support, your listening, etc., why return? She has the best of both worlds - her freedom; and you when she needs it. Maybe you should not be so convenient to HER needs (phone calls when shes stressed, etc) and just for the kids. Maybe that will bring her to see how HARD it really is living without you? It could really work.

Ken, I have been reading thru you dilemma and perhaps a fresh approach is what you need. I have had some very good advise from a counselor from my past. She has always suggested to me,"go on about your business". I your situation that would mean go on for the time being, give this whole situation a rest, work on who you are and what you would be without her is that would be the case. (not saying it would be but just in case). You see when we move on in our own world, and not meaning hurry out to find someone else, that is not the answer now, just moving on about our business, work, socialize with friends, go bowling or to the movies with a guy friend, buy a new shirt, whatever. Just getting on with business makes us more appealing and interesting. Then give it a few weeks and perhaps call her to see if she has decided what she wants in life because YOU are not interested in being on hold forever. YOUR life is too important. I most usually consider the direct approach. It is what I would want for me......Good Luck! didi

Well I broke last night I cant stand feeling like this anymore. She had left a friendly message on my phone about the kids and thanking me for watching the kids and to call if I wanted. I called and asked why she left a message and dident just call me at work which hurt me. I asked her straight up if she had any change in feelings towards me and she replied no. I asked if there was any chance of getting back and she said no, I dont love you, I can just be friendly ant I thought you were past this and over it. I told her I think about her every day and its ripping my heart out. I told her my youngest son told me that the reason he is allways angry is because we are apart and wants us to be a family. I asked if not for me but for the kids could she think about giving it a chance. She replied no that she allready stayed long enough for the kids and now shes doing what she feels like doing. I asked if we could go out as friends and she said no I dont want to. By this time I was crying and hurting badly and I told her she was being selfish, celfcentered and destroying the family. She said oh yea blame it all on me, make me feel guilty. I said no more favors no more nothing that I had to take care of myself and move on that she would now have to deal with the consequenses of her decisions. She told me I knew you were being nice just to get me back and if I wanted to get nasty so could she. Told me she would see a lawer to have me take the kids more often, I just replied you cant force me to do anything. Well I think thats when the call ended. I hung up got the divorce papers, wrote the check and put it in the mail this morning. I called her back to apoligize for calling her selfish and explained it was out of anger and I dident really mean it. She was crying and told me she called her mom because I had hurt her. She then said that no one can hurt me like you, friends or enimies and I replied it was because she still loved me and she dident even know it, that if you dident love me you wouldent even care what I said. I told her to please stop running from her problems and see some one. No answer then replied I should see some one because I should be over it by now and I agreed I should be over it. I know that God will not open another door untill the other one is closed so I'm going thru with the divorce for my own sanity. She made it clear that she does not want me and asked why do I keep asking I said because you tell me that you dont know if theres a chance in the future and that you dont say never. She replied OK then Never. Any comments? Ken

Ken,I am sorry to hear that you had to go through that. One thing I have learned is that the other person may never see what is right in front of their face. Or if they do see it, it may be too late. I think you have done everything you can. You have given her time, and plenty of chances. I would do what is best for you now (and your boys). Make yourself happy do you can help your boys deal with this. Move on and find happiness and peace because you deserve it. My thoughts and prayer are with you and your boys. Choose to be happy, choose to go on, choose to love again.Steph

My comments are that "I'm sorry" for you - and I pray for your strength to get you thru this. You did the only thing that was left for you to do now. I truly believe that the reason she said "okay, never" - was because she feels too, that some doors need to be closed before others open (whether with you, someone else?) but, that everyone is hanging on threads here. OR, she sounded very upset that you stood up to her about giving her so much time and taking the kids, etc and I think it could have possibly made her very angry and she was just sounding off to you. She is angry and hurt now too. Regardless of what happens, endings are NOT happy occassions. Even if you are the one proposing the relationship to end. She cannot truly be happy and sounds angry and hurt. I think you both need to take some time to let the steam blow over. Try to relax and do some soul searching for YOU. Now is that time to focus on YOU and YOUR needs. Its too early in this to see what the future will hold. Speaking from experience, me and my ex have been divorced 9 years now and I could probably say that the first 3 years were TOUGH - the tears, arguing, crying, disagreeing, fighting - and from then on it started changing. I can say that now we are rebuilding a FRIENDSHIP and actually enjoy each others company. Some things just take time to pass. I wish you all the strength and courage to find yourself thru all this. Stay very close to your kids, they will need you now more than ever and just be you! I know you feel as this is the end of the world - but you WILL wake up one day and realize that you are on the road to recovery! I'm praying for you.

All, I just read what happened with KenS and his wife. I really hate it. I have a question. Ken told his wife she is destroying the family. In my own case I have said to my wife, when I thought she was on the verge of leaving, how can you just walk out on a family and destroy it when you have someone who wants to work things out? Can any of you women explain how a woman can do that? I know that men destroy families also, but I just see so many cases where the woman simply decides to leave in spite of the fact that she hasn't tried to fix anything. To me it seems she is being cold hearted in an almost evil sort of way. But I'm sure she isn't seeing it that way. But no matter how hard I try, no matter what angle I view it from, I just cannot fathom how she could walk out, knowing how important it is for kids to have two parents together, without trying to see if it can be worked out. I could understand if there was abuse involved or the husband wasn't interested in changing himself. But when he will do anything to change short of slitting his wrists and is willing to accomodate her any way he can, WHY won't she even consider making moves toward restoration? I know this canot be a cookie cutter answer because women have different personalities. But I see this common denominator too much. I just can't understand it. Can any woman shed some light on this for me. I feel that if I understand it better I might not get so angry when my wife seems to tilt in this direction.

All, I just read what happened with KenS and his wife. I really hate it. I have a question. Ken told his wife she is destroying the family. In my own case I have said to my wife, when I thought she was on the verge of leaving, how can you just walk out on a family and destroy it when you have someone who wants to work things out? Can any of you women explain how a woman can do that? I know that men destroy families also, but I just see so many cases where the woman simply decides to leave in spite of the fact that she hasn't tried to fix anything. To me it seems she is being cold hearted in an almost evil sort of way. But I'm sure she isn't seeing it that way. But no matter how hard I try, no matter what angle I view it from, I just cannot fathom how she could walk out, knowing how important it is for kids to have two parents together, without trying to see if it can be worked out. I could understand if there was abuse involved or the husband wasn't interested in changing himself. But when he will do anything to change short of slitting his wrists and is willing to accomodate her any way he can, WHY won't she even consider making moves toward restoration? I know this cannot be a cookie cutter answer because women have different personalities. But I see this common denominator too much. I just can't understand it. Can any woman shed some light on this for me. I feel that if I understand it better I might not get so angry when my wife seems to tilt in this direction.

All, I just read what happened with KenS and his wife. I really hate it. I have a question. Ken told his wife she is destroying the family. In my own case I have said to my wife, when I thought she was on the verge of leaving, how can you just walk out on a family and destroy it when you have someone who wants to work things out? Can any of you women explain how a woman can do that? I know that men destroy families also, but I just see so many cases where the woman simply decides to leave in spite of the fact that she hasn't tried to fix anything. To me it seems she is being cold hearted in an almost evil sort of way. But I'm sure she isn't seeing it that way. But no matter how hard I try, no matter what angle I view it from, I just cannot fathom how she could walk out, knowing how important it is for kids to have two parents together, without trying to see if it can be worked out. I could understand if there was abuse involved or the husband wasn't interested in changing himself. But when he will do anything to change short of slitting his wrists and is willing to accomodate her any way he can, WHY won't she even consider making moves toward restoration? I know this cannot be a cookie cutter answer because women have different personalities. But I see this common denominator too much. I just can't understand it. Can any woman shed some light on this for me? I feel that if I understand it better I might not get so angry when my wife seems to tilt in this direction.

Being a woman (and one that is working on her marriage also) I don't see how ANYONE (male or female) in cases like you described without abuse can WALK out when their partner wants to keep the family together. BUT speaking from women I know and talking to women, I have had a lot of women tell me (and do this) that they make so many excuses and reasons that they convince their husbands to be the ones to "physically" leave the home because they don't want the guilt on their backs for being the one to leave. Then, they can always say, well he left me and these kids. I've seen that happen so many times and down the road it sounds so convincing to themselves (the woman) to say that HE LEFT (because he did). It makes them feel like THEY didn't walk out on the marriage or the kids. The reasons for not wanting to work it out? Its hard to say. In my case with my ex - I had taken so much of his constant problems (drinking, womanizing, etc) and he wasn't going to change. I knew that. So it was easier for me becuase he was NOT trying and didn't care at the time if he was destroying the family. And its hard for me NOW because as I said after 9 years he HAS changed. (and what a boat to be in for him to want to reconcile with his family and I can't now). See, life is twisted for so many reasons. All I can figure is GOD has control over all of this and there ARE reasons it happens. Maybe to strengthen us, to harden our hearts to be better people who knows? In my case, maybe he wanted to see if I had the strength to sit around for 9 years and HOPE and be COMMITTED that my ex would change. Now I'm remarried and can't commit. So, who knows. It all confuses me too. I just think that she has some things in her heart and mind that she obviously wants to work out and feels strongly that doing it alone and without you is the only way. I pray with my HEART that she sees the light and finds out that you are what she needs before it may be too late for her. Thats all I can offer.

Bruce,I don't think this is a man/woman thing. Some PEOPLE will do anything to keep the marriage together and other PEOPLE will give up at the first sign of trouble. I think it is a matter of personality. Also other things factor into the equation. What kind of relationships have they seen? Did there parents have a good relationship? Do the people around them have good relationships?You mention that your wife goes online and chats quite alot. Also that she talks with these people on the phone. It could be that she has found a support group. Such as you have found here but you have to be sure that they are only hearing her side of it and then giving her advice on how to cope. Even if they are just talking she is getting emotional support from them and not needing or wanting it from you. When things with my H were at there lowest I got alot of support from friends online. One of the things he brought up in counseling was that I would spend more time talking and laughing with them then I did with him. I knew that in order to make this work that I was going to have to cut back. I can not totally stop because I do get support from them but I agreed not to chat if he was home and awake. That way my time was his if he wanted it. For me I would do anything to make this work. I will never file for divorce and will never ask him to leave. But I will not be forced to be different than I am.Your wife is the way she is because of the person she is not because she is a woman. You may never understand her. Just stick to your values and you will be ok, whatever happens in the end.Steph

Bruce, I dident stop at slitting my wrist so to speak I did go out and got as drunk as I could and then took an overdose of sleeping pills back when we first seperated then spent some time in a mental hospital. Thats why I went to AA because I dont have the courage to kill myself while I'm sober. Ladies, Thanks for the words of encouragement, I'm allready second thinking the divorce but its allready in the mail. I feel like its my last chance of sanity and a way of letting go. I pray to God this is what he wants from me. I'm such a bag of mush right now and have tried everything I could to move on and this seems to be the only answer. I'm so scared of whats happining and if I'm doing the right thing. I hope no one has to go thru this, its like I'm being eaten from the inside out. Thanks for being there. Ken

Ken, l am sorry for what you are going through right now. l don't remember all your posts but have read the latest on this thread. l think l am feeling slightly different than the others,but it could be cuz l don't know your whole story. My first reaction to your wifes newfound desire for being alone(and not bending on this yet),is due to her fear of you going back to the old ways-drinking or whatever. l can imagine the fear of being married to an alcoholic,workaholic,abuser,womanizer or whatever the case may be. l am sure that the woman feels she spent so many years putting up with it and trying to fix things that she just got so burnt out and hurt. l know that might be hard to understand when the has truly changed and given up that lifestyle,but you have to understand how hard it is to truly believe the changes will last. You know the old saying a zebra can't change his stripes. Well think about that. Even though this seems like so long to you(13 months l believe) in reality it still isn't proof positive that you wouldn't go back as soon as she accepted you back. Think about what she said during your phone call. Something to the effect that she knew you were being nice just to win her back. l can imagine that was hard to hear,but please TRY to put yourself in her place. l know it makes life very tough on you,but if you want your family to stay in tact you need to show her that even when the going gets rough and she seems unbendable that you will not go back to your old ways. That you truly have changed. In essence, when l read your phone call(and remember that l am also the wronged spouse) l can see how she could have felt backed into a corner and we all know that when that happens the cornered person lashes out to protect themselves. You did state that she left a nice message on your machine. Well, l hate to say that l think you should have taken that at face value and been glad to have received that. it shows to me she really is trying in her own way. Maybe it is just easier for her to talk to the machine than you.She might need lots and lots of baby steps before she can let you all the way back in. l know for me,as much as l want to keep my marriage together,right now it is easier for me to write to my husband rather than talk in person. l just get lost and flustered in person therefore ruining any chance of thinking clearly!(l have ADD too so you might understand me here!LOL!) You also made something that l would have perceived as a threat if my husband said it to me.When she said that she would have the lawyer make you take the kids more,you countered by saying that he can't make you do anything. For one thing,they will always BE your kids too,so why would you say something that could be construed as your taking the kids is doing HER a favor? Aren't you really doing it for your kids? They will need you as much as possible no matter what the outcome of your marriage and you can't threaten things that will make them suffer the consenquences. l realize you didn't do it against them,but was only lashing out at her,but it is still hard for her to hear it and think about it if you ever wrote something like that in an email then one of your kids saw it,how do you think that would make them feel? l keep reading how the kids always blame themselves when parents divorce,but yet parents are always saying they would never do anything to make their kids think that. But don't you see how saying something like that could make an immature child believe it? You also told her that your youngest is angry and wants the family together,so it is her fault, but you have to KNOW that that would make her feel even guiltier.Personally,l am on the side of everyone here who doesn't understand how anyone-man or woman could tear their family apart without even trying(unless abuse was involved),but l also can see that making the person feel even guiltier for leaving them isn't going to do anything for the relationship. l know l have written letters like that asking my husband to answer these philisophical questions,but l know in my heart that he can't and all it has done is built the wall higher up due to the guilt. Perhaps rightfully so,they deserve the guilt,but as l said it doesn't help the situation. Anyway,all in all,l still feel bad for you,but really feel in my heart all is not lost.l know you think you have gone too far by filing,but l think perhaps you can't sit on that awhile longer.Explain to her that you are just in so much pain that sometimes you just can't think straight and say the wrong things. l know how hard this all is....... but if you want to keep your family together,you need to show her just how strong you really are. Go on finding yourself,like the others have said.Preferably not romantically though. Go on enjoying your children.Improve your mind and body and spirit,and thank God for life.Who knows,maybe if you start enjoying it with yourself,then slowly,but surely she may come around. l wish you the best! Ali

It seems in human nature, there are 2 ways to deal with something which is uncomfortable - fight or flight. I know in my case, I fight - no I don't fight with people physically, or verbally, I mean I hang in there, do whatever I can, in whatever way I can. Yea, sometimes it may not be the right way, but I always try. Others feel that flight is the best option - things are too difficult to deal with, or they can't deal with it now, so they flee, run. Is one way better than another - don't know. All I know is what is best for me. I know if I do everything in my power to work through it, then I can feel good about myself. I, also, don't believe it is a male/female issue. Just a part of each individual's makeup. Bruce, Just a thought - I read most all the posts, just haven't been in a very good place to respond often. Maybe the reason flight does work in some instances, is because it breaks the patterns in our relationships which were unhealthy. If you are looking for a different reaction, perhaps you need to change the action. We are creatures of habit, and I know as much as I may try to change, want to change, it is so easy to fall back to what we know. Although your actions may seem perfectly logical and reasonable to you, if they are still illiciting the same response, it's time to change the action. Just as learning in life - a teacher may teach 25 students very well, but can't seem to get through to one - a new teacher may say the same things, be teaching the same things, only this student learns because he hears it put a little differently. Change the acton - get a different reaction. Break the cycle. Just my thoughts Sara

Cndy, StephThanks for your replies. I really hated to phrase my question as something the woman does because I know people don't always take that well. I also know that there are men who just walk out and leave families and I don't understand them any more than i do women. But the books I read, and my experience, point to this emotional wall that momen can build. For my part I am very sorry about the years I have neglected important things my wife needed. I didn't realize, because of selfishness, that I was doing some things. But now that I see it I am truly sorry and she knows I am. I know that that doesn't mean I won't suffer consequenses or that just because I'm sorry that I shouldn't suffer them. But for me as a man I'm prone to think why not just put it behind you. But it seems that the emotional makeup of females is such that is isn't that easy. Am I wrong? This is what I was getting at with phrasing it as a "woman" question. I have thought that if I had been treated a certain way that maybe I would have a hard time myself putting it behind me or reacting to the person who hurt me. But then again I don't think I would have kept things inside me anywhere near as long as women seem to hold things inside themselves. Just recently my wife (in a moment of being mad with me) told me there were still some things I'm not doing. My response was that's fine but how can I know if you don't tell me? As it is she kept things inside for years until we are where we are now. The next thing I know i'm looking up like a deer caught in the headlights asking what the hell happened. I want to do what I can but Lord have mercy I tell you that sometimes it just confuses me to where I just sit down in astonishment. Conversations with my sister gave me info on how a woman feels about certain things as opposed to how men feel about them. That info has helped me to view my wife differently and not to get upset because she wasn't seeing it like I do. That is the sort of thing I was looking for with the "woman" question.