Desperately need creative minds to bust cheater

Marriage Builders

I need some creative ideas on how to get info and set up my husband and "co worker" I have no idea what she looks like, or which office worker she is. I have been snooping his email and found lovey letters fmom her. I have her email address and his at work. I thought about sending her flowers annon. to see if he gets the credit on email. HELP there has got to be a way to set them up. Please any ideas would be appreciated.

personal-- that's probably not a good idea. One, it's just not right. But 2---you want real ammunition---if you send the flowers then he really didn't. Your evidence isn't very convincing. If the affair has been going on for sometime, or will, then you will have plenty of evidence. Plus, the fact that he IS having an affair isn't the only problem or the fianl step. You will have to deal with the affair and what will happend next. Spend a time on the infidelity board to see what others are going thru---the ones who affairs are already out in the open.

personal, I know the feeling butI feel you should be careful how you go about exposing it. I was thinking this morning on the way to work that I wish I would have made a positive attempt to end her affair, which she (like others here have heard) said they were just friends. I wonder if I should ask if she can see it was an affair. She was one of the many who think it has to be physical to be an affair. We are seperated. rrunrr

I personally suggest a strong Plan A. Meet his needs and chances are the affair will stop. Now what you CAN do is cause a little strife between them, and without any blame whatsoever on your shoulders because you won't be doing anything wrong! For example, go out with H, a nice romantic evening, have a grand ole time. Then the next day, send HIM flowers, the card signed something like "Oh, lover, last night was divine. I adore you!" I'll bet that will cause a little friction between them. heh hehLaura

Laura's post seemed like the most "clever" thing of all. It focuses on a positive, instead of just "trying to catch" him.In your other post, it looked like you may have been setting him up a little bit, anyway. (I didn't see "this" thread until about 8 hours after I saw the other one, though it was already here)Not only would Laura's idea be good to set up a little strife between them as she suggested, it also would have another affect (on me). I would think that it would give him a guilty conscience, or make him feel a little silly, even.Do you want to "catch" him cheating? My wife once tried pretty hard to catch "me" cheating, and she did a really great job of it - Even I was impressed when I found out how much "evidence" she had........since I wasn't

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by personal: HELP there has got to be a way to set them up. Please any ideas would be appreciated.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What's the goal here?You already played "gotcha" with him, right? Did that make everything better?Your husband has a wandering eye. You can't go through life playing defense, there are too many lonely women in the world. You need to ask yourself "why is he looking elsewhere? What is he getting in these relationships that I am not supplying him with?" Look on the EN list for some clues. Admiration? Conversation?These espionage games will not provide the breakthrough you need to return honesty to your relationship. They merely reinforce the distrust, because by your own actions you are not following the rule of honesty.

Dear personal,I am going through same thing. I read the replies to your message and while they are very inspirational and well-meaning it does nothing to confirm if you have an unfaithful spouse on your hands and i believe that you should know if its true so here are some signs i've been advised of:Check phone records of all calls made from your house from the last few months (this one is what worked for me)Check the house and his clothes for signs of cologne, lipstick, hairThink about how much he's been spending lately....anything unusual.....unusual charges, more spending $, etcWatch his milage on his carCheck his car for notes, receipts, watch passenger seat for evidence that another person consistently in car (moved, etc)is he distant and critical of you recently or unusual private and defensiveany changes in physical appearance? lost weight, unusual interest in clothes, cologne, etc.Good Luck

forgot to metion....have you searched on e-mail address on the search engines on-line (bigfoot, etc) to find out who she is? should you plan to visit him at work unannounced for lunch, etc. ?

I just couldn't get a good feeling about the idea of trying to catch the cheating spouse unless you are at the point where you think you are going to need evidence to present in court.You sound like you are just becoming aware, got a real wake up call. Before you do anything, I suggest you print out what you already have, and talk to your husband. If anything is going on, at least that will put him on notice. Please be careful not to accuse him. Think about something, those lovely e-mails are making him feel good, an accusation of infidelity is going to make him feel bad.I made the mistake of spying and investigating. It was a disaster. I don't know what will work for you, but I'm fairly confident anything devious is going to destroy whatever you have left. I feel for you, and I think you made a smart move to check this site out for help. Good luck.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bumperii: You sound like you are just becoming aware, got a real wake up call. Before you do anything, I suggest you print out what you already have, and talk to your husband. If anything is going on, at least that will put him on notice. Please be careful not to accuse him. Think about something, those lovely e-mails are making him feel good, an accusation of infidelity is going to make him feel bad. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's another good point, something I could have added if I had thought of it (see my post above) - The only time I have been ever really tempted to cheat was right after I had been accused of it. It wasn't a proper way for me to feel, but I had a hard time not getting the "if I gotta pay I'm gonna play" attitude. I'm glad I got over that feeling before I ever did anything bad. Never cheated before. . .but paid three times already.I don't even know if my wife really believes I have been faithful or not. . .or if she just gave up because she wasn't ever able to prove anything.I don't believe it's something I will ever do - it's so completely against my beliefs. But the nearest I have ever come to it has been right AFTER being accused.If you KNOW he's cheating and you want something to hold up in court, then spy on him.If you WANT him to cheat, so you can get something on him when he does, then accuse him.If you are not sure. . . well. . . that's tough. I still say Laura's positive is the way to go. Or, MikeC2 (he sometimes seems a tad brusque) makes sense.Besides. . . you did already set him up once, tempting him anonymously as another woman. Doing that proved he's liable to, and was a great foundation for your loss of trust."What's the goal?", is a very good question. Do you want to break him, or fix him?

Wow, I'm just now putting these posts together.personal, I hope you listen to the advice here. I believe you're spiraling down into the poorest of all communication techniques! I DO understand how you feel. I've posted before that my H has an incredible knack for getting himself into questionable situations. And even after all of my OWN little espionages, I found nothing concrete AND upset HIM greatly! By the way, ilmf, your posts could have been written by my H. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The only time I have been ever really tempted to cheat was right after I had been accused of it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's what my H tells me....personal, I still say keep trying the positive road. Don't try to trick him. I agree with the others, be happy you have a "wake up call" here. Now what can you do, constructively, to make your marriage better?Laura

Personal. I know how powerful the feelings are when you suspect your spouse of cheating. Its a combination of hurt, rejection, inadequacy and especailly loneliness. It feels like you can't talk to anyone. If you blab to your friends/family you loose face and my be embarrased if your wrong. You can't talk to H because you don;t trust him to tell the truth anyway. Unfortunately, playing the "I have to find out" game won't help these feelings go away. Neither will confronting your H. Instead, follow the path sort of suggested by Laura and Dogbert. Work on improving your relationship with H. I know this may be a scary thought. The more vulnerable you become, the more you may get hurt. But affairs often have a sprialling effect. The more the spouse suspects an affair, the more he/she pulls away and reinforces or justifies the need/desire for an affair. You sound like you may be falling into this trap. Read the marriage builders pages - all of them. Read the posts in this section, the affairs section and in the emotional needs section. Concentrate on ways to improve your realtionship. You may have to live with those awefull feelings for a while - even deny them. It is tough, but I know you can do it. Someday, when your relationship is better and he is ready, your H will fill you in on the details of his affair (emotional or physical). This may take years, but it will be a moment you will relish - a confirmation that he has realized he could never love anyone else again.

Personal, Even MB says we shouldn't trust our spouses, M or F, when it comes to infedelity. Not completly. Not to trust doesn't neccessarily mean dis-trust. I like Laura's approach to the situation, very clever!! My advise is, if your anything like me being obsessed with knowing or not knowing, is to invest the $$ in a P.I. It's about $50 an hr, expensive yes, but well worth the peace of mind it will give you weither it's true or not. Especially if it's not. You'll feel a little silly at first, but more secure the next time (if any) that you find yourself questioning. Just make sure your prepaired for what comes with if your fears are confirmed and exactly how you want to approach the situation. Most men will deny a mountain of evidence w/o any concrete proof. In my opinion KNOWING would be a lot better than stuck somewhere between believing or not believing. Any way, that's just my opinion. Hope it may help.By the way, ilmf, you sound guilty to me. Affairs or not, your at least guilty of continuing to put youself in situations that appear inappropriate.

Quickly, read a book called "Love Must Be Tough" by Dr. James Dobson. I think it's wonderful advice for the partner who believes her spouse is having an affair. I'm not sure confirmation is the point, nor is confrontation.

also, I would recommend confirmation through a professional, as well . . . (a "p.i.")

I sound guilty, huh?And here I sit wondering if you've any idea what lengths I go to to make SURE I am never in a situation that would appear guilty or potentially compromising. . .I don't dare enter a lady's home unless her husband is present - don't flirt with others or make comments that might be miscontrued. . being sure to abstain from all appearance of evil.Nope. . . never been caught with my hand in the cookie jar. Actually never had my hand even "in" the cookie jar. . . After three accusations, I don't even walk on the side of the kitchen where the cookie jar even is!!!Hey, FS . . . maybe you and my wife ought to get together and have lunch sometime! She used to have a wonderful friend who filled her head with ideas like that, until they had a major confrontation over. . .get this. . a house plant that a lady gave my wife at a yard sale. My marriage got waaaaay better after that negative influence was gone.The PI is a great way to make sure he knows he's not trusted. And when he KNOWS he's not trusted, he will FEEL not trusted. . .which doesn't really make for happy feelings at all. I recommend that anyone who doesn't trust their spouse just come right out and say, "I know I can never trust you" - my wife saved a ton of money with this method.Her first step down this path was when she figured out "everyone does it". . .Oddly though, I haven't ever remotely suspected her of cheating. . .and she's one of everyone.That's given me the giggles, here. It won't do any good to try and convince you, FS. . . but I think you've made a good case in point. And pretty clever, suggesting a compromise, too. . maybe that I have never been guilty of an actual affair, but evidently am guilty of putting myself into situations.And not a shred of evidence, except that suspicion was present to begin with. . what an excellent foundation for an accusation.By the way. . . it was "Personal" who posted to begin with, and I don't think she's come back. . . other than maybe to read, because I have watched her three posts and only us "others" have been posting here. . .

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FeelingStupid: Not to trust doesn't neccessarily mean dis-trust. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What? I wonder what it really means, then. . .

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FeelingStupid: You'll feel a little silly at first<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why would anyone feel silly? Every normal couple ought to hire out a PI now and then, right?This is the first time I have ever made light of anyone's remarks on this board. Most of the time, really ridiculous stuff is best just not even acknowledged. . . but someone somewhere's liable to take that kind of input seriously and really trash their marriage.It honestly DID hit home with me, since I've been on this train before. Hey, it really works. . . I can't imagine ever looking into my wife's eyes and telling her that I love her, and feeling like she really believes that.I guess "distrust". . . or "not really trusting someone". . . whichever it is - I don't want to mess up the semantics there must breed a kind of distrust.I've never suspected my wife of an affair, certainly. But after all the snooping around that she's done on me, deceitfully and dishonestly, I don't "trust" her at least with regard to what she "tells" me verbally on any account. I always wonder what she's got up her sleeve, and I don't feel particularly relaxed when she's around.That's kind of backwards, isn't it? Our spouses should be a haven, and a comfort to us. . . away from the world, forsaking all others, cleaving to one another.

Now look what's gone and happened. . . my wife just called out from the other room asking, "what is so funny in there on the computer??". . . done gone and done it again. . . how am I gonna splain what I've been in here giggling about?*smile*We're supposed to be good to each other, and faithful. That DOES work both ways. If Personal's husband is cheating on her, then he'll probably mess up sooner or later and get caught anyway. Anyone who's cheating really does need to take their medicine.But where an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, I don't recommend false accusations as an effective treatment.

Please, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to get personal and offend you. My discovery is still pretty fresh, and negative feelings are still close to surface. I just know that for me personally, I know when a situation could be viewed as inappropiate behavior and I avoid them. Laughing out loud on the computer is not one of them. However having my best friend check you into a motel, weither she's temporarily your assistant on a music video or not, and both get caught lying to me about it is. They say they lied because I was suspicious already and neither wanted to get *****ed out about what it looked like. Anyway, that's my story short and sweet. Had I hired a P.I. when I first got suspicious I would have confirmation if they were both telling me the truth about the motel. They say nothing happened. Their lie makes that hard to believe. What I meant about not trusting and distrusting, it's ok to not trust human nature without directly distrusting your spouse. Hey, MB put that thought into my head anyway. Thanks for your light hearted response to what I said about you sounding guilty. God bless, FS

FS,Your story, "short and sweet" as you put it was actually in addition that, crystal clear to me. Having read your clear little bit of testimony I had to take my hat off. Your thoughtful reply warrants a more thoughtful one from me. In short - I see your point.That's probably about all I'd really need to say, where after all apparently we can see one another's point. But, after seeing how kindly you worded your thoughts and I'd been a bit of a smart-aleck I believe I owe you a bit more than that. Beginning your post with "please, I'm sorry" inspires a "please, I'm sorry", from me to you. . .I think that where things might fall into categories of degree I hate to use the word "offended". . . OK, you jangled a nerve of mine a bit. But that's fine. . gosh, I ought to be able to stand a little nerve-jangling if that's what it takes to listen properly to someone else's point of view.Sorry. . .It was very eloquently put - the way you defined questionable behavior with the comparison between laughing at the computer and a "pair" checking one-another into motel rooms and then lying about it. Gosh! I'll come to your side on THAT one - A whole lot less than THAT would have me raising my eye-brows and quite honestly very suspicious.Certainly our experiences are a bit different, and that's going to make us see from different perspectives - ergo, have different points of view, and worth taking seriously.I'm honest in that I'm not one to be in compromising situations (and I appreciate your faith, after all in that). And the fact is that I really do have a clue or two as to why I've had to put up with some of that. It doesn't really matter if it isn't "fair". . . if it's "reality".My wife's Dad cheated on her Mom. . . . (everyone does it, right?) Her self-confidence sometimes suffers. . . . (Why wouldn't he cheat, when there are so many others who are blah-blah-blah?) She honestly has had a couple of friends in the past who convinced her to "look" for things. One of which (as far as I know) never got cheated on, herself - but just enjoyed the drama. Finally, a big negative. . . in my work, sporadically I am sent away on those "out of town" trips where men are so liable to take advantage of no one knowing them a thousand miles away.On that last note. To be honest, I have seen men I NEVER would have suspected in a million years go out and find themselves a hot little number to keep company with for a couple of weeks. The 2nd time I had an issue like this "I" hadn't even been on such a trip in months, and the husband in a family we were friends with came home from such a trip and being guilt-ridden, confessed all to his wife. . . She called my wife, with whom I was eating supper at the time, and who went over to be a consoler, I suppose. She was gone for about two hours, and when she came back. . .. . . she had started by playing 20 questions with me. . . "have you ever?" "nope" "If you did, would you tell me?" "huh??" And if I finish the pattern there. . . there's no way to win one like that.And it took MONTHS to get over that. I can still remember to this day what I was eating that evening. . peas, mashed potatoes and gravy, and fried chicken. (It's been 10 or 11 years ago!) That was the worst of them, but I have had three episodes, now.Now, as far as hiring PIs and things like that. . . I am absolutely opposed to anyone doing something like that, if they want to SAVE or REPAIR their marriage. If they are pretty sure it's over and want to collect evidence to hold up in court or something, or maybe if the only way to repair a marriage is to force the guilty party to 'fess up, I can see it. Or if someone wants to sabotage their marriage, for whatever reason. . .easy out, something like that. . . then it's a great way to crush trust and faith and set up a pattern of bad thinking.After that one fellow came home from his trip with his confession, and I got worked over for it. . . I couldn't hug my wife and feel in love at all. Our marriage "works", and ours is a good home, but that "in love" feeling is as gone as if either of us ever actually did have an affair. Kinda hard to be in love with someone who makes clear you are not trusted. Lastly, on that note. . . after the beating up I got - I will be honest (I told her, too) that the very next time "I" went out of town I had a tough time not getting the "I already paid, so I might as well play" attitude. That's so wrong of me, and I am so glad I didn't act on it - but the simple fact that the incentive that comes with saying "my wife trusts me" is GONE makes a difference.I don't believe I'll ever cheat on my wife. But that has nothing to do with her or what a great catch she is, anymore. Instead that's my own conviction. I want to be honorable and virtuous, and if I give that up just because another element that would be nice to have (trust) is missing, then I haven't gained a thing, I've only become even less than I already am. Something to think about for ANYone considering snooping, prying, spying, or hiring a PI. . .if I hadn't have had that conviction, then I would have quickly used the accusation as my rationale to cheat, the very next time I had a chance. But that is WRONG! even so.Now, I've said a bunch. . . probably ought to have been a little more short and sweet like you, FS.Not every situation is the same. Surely there are times when a PI (or any other measure) is very well warranted. Your point was clear and well made. Now, with all that said, I am hoping that anyone who's maybe about to be in a pinch will objectively consider all these things that everyone has said, and tailor them to fit their own circumstances.I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience, and I wish that no one ever did.FS. . . no reason for you to be "feelingstupid". . . Probably, even if my views differ, I'll take better care to consider yours objectively.God bless you too

ilmj, I just accidently deleted a full page of text in response to your last post. So your now going to get a condensed version. Thank you for the nice adjectives you used to discribe my communication skills. Words like kind, clear, serious, eloquent, thoughtful and inspire are ones I havn't heard said about me in a long time. Big confidence boost, thank you. My husband would argue that I have the communication skills of a baffoon. That's neither here nor there, seeing as he left us last night [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Anyway, you showed confidence in what I have to say and still question what I mean. And because of this I must share with you the little pearl of wisdom that dropped in my lap this evening as I contimplated how to furter explain my point of view on the P.I.. If you TRUSTED your child was in a safe play enviroment, but you got this overwhelming FEELING that he was in danger, would you not immediatly go check to make sure? And if he was OK, you wouldn't intrude just to let him know that you had a feeling. You would hope he didn't notice you coming to check at all. You would still not question your need to make sure he was ok just because he was either. You run just as quick the next time you get that FEELING. They call it Mother's Intuition and trust it as such. Now had the child been in danger, let's say you rushed in to find them choking on a marble. Your instincts were right, yet you don't respond to the situation by criticizing and judging that child for doing something they shouldn't have now do you. No your first instinct would be to safe your childs life by removing the danger element, the marble, from his mouth. Now, after saving you would provide comfort knowing your child was scared and hurt from the trauma. After the child calmed down and you made sure they were ok, only then would you start to calmly explain the danger in what your child just did by being curious as to what a marble tasted like. You see I think that's why we have tempations and intuitions. It is our repsonsiblity to our spouse to be able to pick up on these vibes, so we can check on them when their enviroments present dangerous temptations. Just as a child needs it's mother to tell them when they did or are about to do something dangerous and to stop and/or save them, I feel is just how we are suppost to need our spouses. Just think about it, if every A or infidelity could be preceived from this point of view, how much easier it would be to get handle them appropiatly. I only wished I'd realized this before my H left. I am even more commited to my P.I. theory then I was before. I think it is quite alright to check on our spouses when we feel the need to, because they just may need us to come save them before the can hurt themselves with human nature. I hope this is all clear. I feel as though I've been rambling on or leaving things out because I've allready typed it all once. I wonder if this point of view could be helpful to others. Please give me your point of view, as well as your wifes.. I would much appreciate it. I choose not to check on my H, and WE choked to death on that marble. 1. check, 2. save, 3. comfort, 4. reinforce These could possibly be the four steps needed for any marraige to successfully survive any affair. Let me know what you think. FS I guess that wasn't quite condensed [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[This message has been edited by FeelingStupid (edited October 08, 2000).]

FS,Is that "babboon" or "buffoon"? Or was that just a clever play on words that you decided to use? *smile* Just teasing.If you found my assessment of your communication skills to be encouraging, then by all means, take it to heart - because I was entirely sincere. Your short/sweet post was all that, and so was your longer explaination this evening.Neither of your posts were lost on me, because in both of them you made your point very well. I will admit that I have softened a bit to the notion of some of that business of checking up on a spouse (but I still cringe at the idea of a PI unless there is more than just a little doubt or suspicion).Excellent analogy, with the "marble".Sort of still and apples & oranges thing. . . at least a little, and if not. Well, imagine the indignation of the kid who's not able to have a marble because some kid down the street choked to death on one!!Really I DO see your point, please believe that. It's clear to me that our circumstances are quite a bit different.I think that if I had been "checked on" a time or two, then I'd have been a bit miffed at the time. But my wife has told me "I can never trust you". And I asked her why and her reply was, "because I know how you are". Apart from that, she wasn't able to provide anything about how I "am". I DID ask her what I could do to change, so that she would feel better and she said, "Nothing, I just can't ever trust you". (And I think it's because she has a lack of self-confidence that try as I might, I can't seem to help much - a husband's duty I have failed at)You see, I have really been through the wringer about it a few times. And the deep-down "inside" hurt comes from promising someone "forever" who's assured me of a "never" (which is very negative). . . never and forever are exactly the same length of time.My wife's point of view: If I ask her if she believes I have been faithful, then she will say, "I don't know". (That really hurts because I never even had another girlfriend before we were married, and haven't ever been unfaithful in 17 years - while I know others who've had affairs, gotten over them, and have better marriages than me. . .)Her point of view really is a lot like yours. I HONESTLY can understand your point of view in the wake of what you've experienced, but she's not been through anything like that.Really FS, focusing on this as a "representative slice" of what my life/marriage is like is kind of misleading. I imagine that goes without saying. Certainly it's not a central issue and it's not something that's like a daily struggle or anything like that with us. I'm grateful for that. And the distrust she has doesn't really manifest in ways that have any sweeping effect on our lives as a whole. But in and of itself, it's very negative.I'm really probably saying more than I have to, or even should - at the risk of running us down tangent lanes in conversation.Incidentally, at this point I'm more interested in convincing you that I DO see your point than I am in convincing you of mine, or anything about me. Agreeing and understanding are not quite the same. I don't quite agree, but I really do understand.But if after all that I have borne, my wife ever hires a PI to trail me. . . . . . that could be a finalizing sort of insultFor what it's worth, I respect all that you have said, in spite of my own feelings and views. I think I've found a friend of sorts in you, and will give any thought you post on any topic due consideration.Thanks for your patience with me.And do be encouraged. You really are a very clear one, and express your self well.(By the way, I have begun to wonder if the topic-starter, personal has ever come back any more)God bless you, FS (and all)

see next post[This message has been edited by FeelingStupid (edited October 08, 2000).][This message has been edited by FeelingStupid (edited October 08, 2000).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FeelingStupid: [B]ilmf, I wonder if we should start a new topic to continue our conversing? It's just convient here because I know you'll check here. My last post was more a new awareness for me about human nature and the rolls we play as couples, more than it was anything to do with either my situation or yours. I'm not obsessing on trying to change your point of view. I almost used the analogy of sticking a nail in an electrical socket, but the sexual overtones were way to strong with that. Maybe I should expand on that one now. I'm going to start a new thread under "Infedelity; General Question II" titled "Our spouse as our baby?" to see what other points of veiw I can attract, and will continue this posting to you there. So if you wouldn't mind, I would like you to join me there. thx fsps: I just had that FEELING.... and found my 7 mo old less then 10 feet from me (but out of view) quietly choking on a piece of fuzz from her blanket. I will ALWAYS trust my instincts!! It's my perception that I have to question... I realize I'm neglecting my children right now so I will have to wait a few hours to post the rest of my response. I will start that new thread w/o continuing my post just in case you wish to respond in the meantime. See you there.

I used a PI. The only reason I resorted to that was because all attempts at discussing it with my W proved fruitless. Someone cheating will never admit it and I got tired of the stress attached to not knowing what was truly happening. I just found out over the weekend that her trip "to be alone" was actually to meet him. At least I was able to bring the affair out into the open and discussed it with her in a non-threatening manner.