OK, so I am killing time with my 3 month free trial at Eharmony, and I noticed an interesting trend.

About 90% of my matches are women 42-48, NMNK. I still think I'd prefer to date a parent, and someone who has been married, but I guess I am game to try NMNK.

But here is the puzzling part, hence the subject line. In answering what they can't live without, or the one thing they are most passionate about, almost all of them say.. ... "My dog". WTF? I mean I am a pet owner, but I would never say that I cannot live without them <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.

So I ask you - is it the chicken or the egg? Do women who somehow never settle down and get married and have kids do so because they are too in love with their dog (usually male, hmm), or do they end up falling in love with their dog because they do not settle down?

BTW, this is not meant to be a fun-poking post, I am genuinely curious about this phenomenon I am observing. And no, I am not trying to be sexist, I am certain that if I got men's profiles (yuck), I'd probably notice some weird trend like "can't live without my TV" or something.

In practical terms, I am concerned that women who elevate their dogs to "can't live without" status may not be all that understanding of what having kids is all about - it is certainly different than owning a dog.

Thoughts?

AGG

Hmm. Fascinating, but I wouldn't read too much into it. Probably the eHarmony computer just inferred something from your test results which led it to conclude that you would be perfect for women who are in love with their dogs.

Of course, we could have fun speculating about a sublimated drive to nurture, and the desire to be loved and needed; but perhaps nothing is really indicated beyond a compassionate heart.

that is interesting.
well, i never had a dog and i have been married for....forever.
but, as a little girl and before I was married, i always had a cat.
and i loved my cats. my cat was in my wedding photos....so, i guess i can see how any unattached women can say they wouldn't want to live w/o their pet.
atleast a pet is a living/loving thing...that's a good sign, right?

I think that spending the first 40-plus years of your life without kids or a spouse will tend to lead to some very ingrained habits that are self-serving, whether you're a male or a female. If you are looking at never married women with kids, then they will at least be likely to have learned essential human adult lessons about how to delay gratification, how to compromise, and how to put others' needs equal to or ahead of their own. I would worry about getting together with someone who has never had to learn these lessons, because by the time they are in their 40s it's likely that their habits are fairly deep-rooted.

If someone has raised children and/or been married, that would seem to be a better match. Or, if she has spent her life working in a service career such as nursing, that might bode better.

With Eharmony you can adjust your preferences to temporarily screen out all but the best of the best. If you try that, you might find it easier to decide who might be right for you. No point looking at everybody - might as well go for the best match you can find.

Could they possibly mean loyalty? As these women are seeing the statisics on the divorce rate or their relationships with some men they dated?

Oh great, that makes me feel better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />.


That is probably true - but it is the huge emphasis on the love toward the dog that concerns me.

AGG

Right. Hey, I have pets, and I do think it's a good sign that someone can devote care and love to a living thing. Like I said to Gnome, it's only when I see a dog elevated to near-human importance that I get a little concerned. And these Eharmony chicks say their dogs are the most important things in their lives - weird.

AGG

Well, this is the perfect summary of my real concern. It's not that the person loves a dog, it is that this person may never have experienced having to share, compromise, or sacrifice. Increasingly, my experiences with NMNK women (dog or no dog) seem to support this conclusion.


Well, you can choose if you want to date people with kids under 18 - but I didn't see a box for dating women with dogs <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

So they opt for dogs instead of men? If so, I should definitely avoid them like the plague. I do recall one lady telling me that all she wants is a man who would look at her with the same adoring eyes as her dog did. I thought that was quite a tall order - a dog would look adoringly at anyone who gave them food, while I like to think that I am little more complex than that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. How can I compete with a dog?

AGG

I would take it the same way that it should be taken when people say that they can't live without their kids.

Can't (won't) live without kids....if your job transfers you to another state, expect that the parent will not relocate with you.

Can't (won't) live without pet....if you don't want to live with the pet, expect to live separately.

Imho, it would be a much different thing if she said that she couldn't live without a piece of furniture. We're talking about living things---children and pets. Not the same, to be sure, but both have needs and require loving responsibility.

I actually went back and rechecked my profile. I do say that one of the things I am most thankful for are my two wonderful kids, but I do not include them in the "can't live without" category.


True. My concern though is that in my experience non-parents sometimes think that the similarity is much greater than just the fact that both kids and pets are living things. I think that anyone who has had both will tell you that the similarity ends right there; unfortunately, non-parents often do not understand that. I don't believe you'll often see a parent put down a "dog" as a thing they are most thankful for.

Again, my concern is not in the absolute sense - I think two non-parents who love their dogs can be perfect for each other. My concern is only in the sense of how these women would work out with me - and I do worry that some of these women will assume that raising kids is similar to caring for dogs.

AGG

Glad I could help!

I think you may be reading a bit too much into this. What are they supposed to say is the most important thing in their lives? You've got to fill something in when you're creating your profile, and some people may take the question more seriously than others. Some people are also prone to exaggeration. Yeah, I would hope that intimate human relationships would be more important, but some people are isolated enough that they just don't have those kinds of relationships. And while, yes, I would consider that to be something of a tentative warning flag, how would you have reacted if a woman had named her stock portfolio instead?

Just out of curiosity, what did you include in the "can't live without" category?

Come on now, AGG! Use your imagination! There are all sorts of competitions in which a dog would be at a disadvantage! Just pick one of those instead of the kind where the edge belongs to the dog.

And anyway, when you adore a woman, the adoring look comes naturally. If all a woman wanted was an adoring look, I would think she had a serious problem with self-worth. Give me a bigger challenge, please. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Uh, I said "my cats, chocolate, air, water, food", of course. I'm no dope.

Actually, I think I sort of misunderstood the intent of the question when I gave them my answers - I assumed they meant what I can't live without in a relationship, so I said "honesty, fidelity, dependability, emotional stability, affection".

If they meant the broader view of life, then I guess my joking answer above would be more appropriate, at least the last three items. But I think that would apply to any living thing, so it's kinda stupid.

AGG

It's only fair; I'm helping you so much on your thread!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.


You have a point. And I do try to take the occasional goofy "can't live without" answer in stride - some are actually quite amusing. For some reason, though, the dog-women seem to be serious about the importance of the dog, and that scares me.

AGG

Precisely why that concerned me!


I dunno, dogs are good at that "I'll adore you as long as the food bowl is full" look. Like I said, I like to think that it takes more than a full belly to have me adore someone.

AGG

That might be part of the problem of who the e-harmony computer is matching you with while seemingly excluding other parents.

To be honest, even if e-harmony matched you with other parents, I think that many of them would pass you by simply because of the misrepresentation. The way it comes across to me is that if you met a person with those "can't live withouts" that you'd ditch your kids to be with that person. That, in itself, would give many parents a certain view of you as a parent and most would probably not want to invite that into their lives. And of those who would, would you want to invite them into your live and your kids' lives?

It might not be you who is attracting NMNK, it might simply be your profile attracting them. Feel better or worse? LOL

AGG, you have to appreciate that NMNK will have the same "understanding" of what it means to have kids as your "understanding" what it means (at that age and after so many years of living without them) not to have kids... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have to admit that I'd rather have a man who'd name his stock portfolio... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(And, to clarify, this has nothing to do with money itself.....)

Hi AGG - I'm a divorced, 45 year old with no kids but I have dogs. As some of the responses have indicated, maybe you're just reading too much into it.....IMHO.

I love my pets probably as much as parents love their kids - my pets have been lifetime companions throughout my entire adult life - they are VERY important to me. So, I would list my pets as being important to me because it just wouldn't do anyone any good to respond to my ad if they didn't like pets, was allergic, etc. because we wouldn't be compatible.

However, I can speak only for myself here, I wouldn't put a dog's life above a human's life, but I wouldn't consider a long term relationship with someone who didn't like pets - because they are part of my "package" as children are part of the parent "package" - a non-negotiable. And, I don't think that a non-parent is totally clueless to the relationship with children that a parent has just because they don't have children. My boyfriend has three kids, and I support him 100% that his children come FIRST - before job, before me, before fun, etc.......and I respect that. I would think less of him if he were to put me BEFORE his kids, his kids are a part of our relationship, and I'm happy for that. No, I'm not looking to be their mother, but as a childless woman, it IS nice to spend time with a father and his kids - something that I didn't have the opportunity to do when married, and no, I don't ever expect him to pick ME over his kids.......so there are childless ladies out there that DO understand the parent/child relationship.......

Just for fun, I will share what I put on my profile when I was on EHarmony:

Can't live withouts:

1. Family and friends;
2. My Job (pays for my lifestyle);
3. Oreo cookies.......won't ever give those up!

I'm hoping that my list isn't why I couldn't find anyone worth anything while I was on EHarmony!!!

Laura

Of course it is different - and I do believe that all of us "non-parent pet lovers" do realize that.....and yes, I also do believe that the non-parent pet lovers understand what having kids is about - even though we don't have them....I can only speak for myself, but I do understand the difference.

Laura

omg agg i think you are seriously looking wayyyyy too much into this.

are you telling me you would seriously consider NOT dating one of these women because they list their dog and that they could not live without them?

my stepmother is over the edge off her rocker animal lover. i mean this women was seriously so depressed when her dog died she went on AD's! she could not live without her dog, she would list that. BUT, she is also one of the most caring, compassionate, loving people you could ever meet. she loved her animals long before she had children. i knew her before she had children and she treated me just fine. she treated me with love. and when she had my sister, she knew exactly how to be a good mother.

so, yes she loved and loves her animals in such a way that some people would think she was nuts,BUT, she loves the people in her life just as much and that is quite a find.

these women may list that they could not live without their dogs,but maybe they,like my stepmother, feel that way about people too. one of these women, if they are like my stepmom, would stand by you no matter what and love you forever just as they love their animals.

maybe look at it that way.
mlhb

BRAVO mlhb - BRAVO!!

I was looking for those words - and you found them! I have found through my life's journey that those that love animals with a passion are some of the MOST passionate people in ALL of their relationships - something about having an endless amount of space in their hearts for all - both 4-legged and 2-legged!

(some might call me an "off her rocker" animal lover too, and I'm proud of that!)

Laura

I'm going to answer first then go back and read what other's have said.

Personally,I am not sure if maybe the women who answer like that are really serious.It's kind of like saying your "dying for a piece of chocolate" or a sundae.Not really dying,just expressing a deep desire about something.

I also have known a few people who have put such importance on their pet it seems inappropriate.I love my dog too,very much but she has her place in this family.

Well AGG,

I think that you are taking the question too literally. I'd probably say that I can't live without or am most passionate about my self-composting toilet or my yurt but I'd sure hope that you wouldn't take me too seriously...

All joking aside, I worked as a veterinary technician for 15 years before becoming an RN and I noticed that most people who said that they couldn't live without their dogs felt that way until they had kids - coworkers included. And all of them have made great parents IMO. The same qualities that that make them good "pet parents" make them good parents to their children.

Admittedly, there are those few extremists that mistake their dog for a little person in a furry suit but they are usually pretty easy to spot. I've known people whose dogs have a bigger wardrobe than I do. Now that's kinda flakey.

If I understand you correctly, you are more concerned about the fact that a potential match has NK and can't live without her dog more than that she's NM? I would think that the latter would be a bigger concern - or at least for me it would be.

I'm just curious, I've dated men with kids who thought it was easier to date a woman without kids because it was easier than trying to mesh parenting styles and blend families. The relationships didn't work out for other considerations not related to the above but I'm wondering why you prefer parents to non-parents?

Or for those of us good "pet parents" who won't ever have children, we can be good with kids too - not just our own.

I think the *most* probably mean, "hey, my dog is important to me so non-dog lovers or non-animal lovers need not apply"....

Some do take it to the extreme, as Frau points out, but most are prob fairly normal in their love for their dogs.

As a HUGE dog lover myself, I would definitely put that out there. Leave it to me to fall head over heels for my BF who prefers cats <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hey, I've been outta the loop for a bit and just curious....anymore "weirdness" from G?

DW
mom to 2 sweet, 4 legged, baby girls <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Absolutely THTB and I hope I didn't appear to imply otherwise. I had an instructor in nursing school who took me aside and told me that she thought animal lovers made the best nurses because of their ability to love, care for, and have empathy for living things regardless of species. I'm probably biased, but I agree.

No, no - you didn't imply anything - I agree with you 100%. I was just making my "pitch" to AGG that us animal lovers without kids (and over 40) can be as compassionate with children as to animals. After reading his post, I was getting the vibe that he thinks that women over 40 with no kids just don't understand the parent issue - and I was sticking my two cents in that we do.

Of course, AGG, another possibility to consider is that the majority of eharmony members are dog loving NMNK who are eagerly looking to find a "perfect match" whereas the BTDT's aren't as enthusiastic the second time around or maybe they subscribe to the bitter, scorned, dog-kicking, and divorced but still looking for a date site! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How is it AGG that you always rev up the board?

My opinion, although there have been many.
I think for women, [possibly men] that have not had children but do have a dog, they cannot imagine loving anything greater. I think until one feels that kind of love when having had a child[ren], they feel that the pet is the center of their world.
I get it and I don't.
For me, having had children, no pet could ever compare. However, if I had never had one[any] and I owned a dog, that may be the only unconditional love I would have ever felt.
All that being said.....I've seen some women act pretty ridiculous over a dog, and I get your point.

Aside from the whole animal/dog issue, I still wonder how well a NMNK person would fit into a world of DWK's world.
Sometimes I think the NK would be better as far as mixing and x issues, but NM, I'm not sure.

Something tells me you're ready to take the plunge?!!!!
AGG's ready to date again. The board will be smokin!

K!

The other possibility is that saying that you love dogs is a safe response, one that generally won't get you eliminated on a profile. Almost anything else has the potential that someone might dislike you placing that first.

Examples:
1. Religion
2. Family
3. Donuts
4. Obscure science fiction movies

Uh, guys, men, a little help here?? I seem to be overrun by a bunch of dog-loving women, run for your life! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

OK, too many points here to reply to individually, but a couple of highlights.

One thing most of you appear to have missed is my initial statement. It is not that I am surprised that I found a woman who loves her dog. That would be fine, it would be great, woopee, let's all sing kumbaya. No worse than a woman who can't live without her makeup, chocolate, her Ipod, her cell phone, sex, or pet rhino.

The point I explicitly made is that what caught my attention was the incredibly high percentage of my matches who said they can't live without their dogs. Get it?

So it's not the occasional oddity I am talking about, but the trend. Sort of like I would imagine you might laugh off a guy who can't live without his tool (hehe), but if every guy you saw said he can't live without his python, you might start wondering WTF, right? That is the point.

So I am not questioning pet lover's love for their pets, that is fine, count me in. I am wondering why all of my matches seem to place their dogs above most everything else.

Now, Part 2 is when I brought up the age old question of whether a NMNK person can relate to a DWK person. I am sure some can; Laura appears to be a great example, kudos <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. It still happens to be my experience that the NMNK women I meet who have dogs, do compare kids to dogs. Sorry, I am not saying all women are like that, it's just what I seem to end up with. So that is why I am leery of matches who say the dog is the most important thing, it's a trigger. But darn it if they all don't seem to have dogs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Fraulein62:

I don't. I am still trying to not have a preconceived notion here. Each one has pros and cons. The appeal of not having to blend families is huge, but my less than happy experience with childless women sort of negates that. I think it's a case by case thing.

TrulyHappytoBe:

At the risk of getting killed, I do believe that non-parents do not IN GENERAL understand the parent issues. It is not an insult; actually, as another poster wisely said, I no better understand a NMNK's issues than they understand mine. It is normal - you can't understand someone till you walked a mile in their shoes. Does not mean that the NMNK cannot empathize or learn to understand, but at the outset, starting cold, it is unlikely that they will get it all. Kinda like not knowing how to drive a car till you tried.

Karona:

Practice practice practice, you know how that is!


Yup, that is my observation as well.


Yup, and those are the ones I seem to come across.


Yeah, well, I may go out with a dog owner (no other prospects) just to come back here and tell you all "told you so" after she tells me she is not worried about being a stepmom because she already raised a puppy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

I think I get what you are saying AGG. Whether divorced, never-married, with kids or without, there's a worm in the apple no matter where you bite.

I think the reason for your incredibly high number of dog lover responses is probably because the "can't live without" qualities that you list - honesty, fidelity, dependability, emotional stability, affection - are traits most universally shared by animal lovers.

Kind of. What I am saying is that each category has the potential to be wormy, you can't presuppose that any one category can never be wormy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


Hehe, maybe that explains it. Maybe I'll try to change them into more "guy" items - "TV, beer, TiVo, football, ESPN, Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue" (yes, I know that was six, I was trying to be funny <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ).

AGG

your "tool" and "python" eh?

my my....

hahahahaha

now that made me laugh!

mlhb

AGG, I thought you were leaning away from NMNK. I suppose, as a group, one must just be aware of some of the more common traits. These, of course, do not apply to each person in the group.

I tend to agree with the concept that NMNK, man or woman, want someone in their lives to love. They have pets instead of kids so the pets give love SIMILAR to the love kids can gives us.

Your task is weed out the ones who would kick your a.s out of bed before their pets.

I'm planning on re-joining Match pretty soon. Eharmony has done absolutely nothing for me, Yahoo Personals doesn't have the quantity Match does. All the others just don't have enough members in my area. Chemistry has given me a free membership for the past year. I'll continue if they will keep providing for free. I like the concept with Chemistry but, again, they seem to lack people, though I did go on dates with a couple of guys.

Hmmm, a little rusty right now. I need to work on making my life a little more exciting so I have something to write about.


Ahhh, BUT, you may get caught totally off guard and be in a hot steamy relationship by June, perhaps March!
Then we will all be looking for dog lovers in our worlds!
Enjoy your pursuits.

K!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I am, but I guess I am open to both. Eharmony does not let me pick a specific group, and they keep sending me NMNKWD women (that's "NMNK with dog"). Interestingly, I noted that not a single DWK woman specifies a dog as a "can't live without".



Well, that's part of it, the other part is those who will expect that my kids should be comparable to their dog in terms of how much time and effort they require.


Chemistry? What's that?

AGG

Nah, one of your Match matches will polish the rust right off - I have a hunch!


My plan is no steamy relationships till, oh, Dec 31 or so.

AGG

Ya think?? Now there's something to smile about!


Huh, that long eh? Now what is it they say about best laid plans?
I predict that one will come along and do the big sweep, well before next year arrives. But, if it's not until 12/31 or after, hope it's a nice steamy one!

K!

Funny and true IMO.

Early in 2005, I was seeing a woman who owned two dogs. I don't for a moment think that animals are unimportant. Although the relationship ended after several months for a few reasons, one of the most important in my mind was when she said to me "my dogs are more important than you" and when I was always forced to either sit in the back seat of her vehicle or have dogs, and thus dog hair, all over me in the front seat.

I spent 14 years in a marriage with a woman who alwsys put our children before me, and ****** will freeze over before I ever let any woman in my life let her pets take priority.

It's just not going to happen!!!

Mark

Sounds like I am now being matched up with her sisters <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

This has nothing to do with your dog question, but why does "settled" have to equal married with kids?

I don't think there's anything wrong with AGG preferring to date Mom's...he's a Dad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's something in common, it defines who we are. AND I think it's weird (and pretty funny!!) that so many of his matches are crazy for their dogs, lolol.

It doesn't. I used the term merely as a figure of speech - you know, "settle down" usually means "start a family"? That's all, no deeper meaning.

AGG

I think to most people it means to start a family. To me it means to have qualities similar to the ones you listed as what you couldn't live without: responsible, dependable, stable, honest, etc.

I think a NMNK woman with those qualities would fit into your life better than a DWK woman without them.

A late answer to your question. People without children seem to attach themselves much more dramatically to their animal(s). Fiance treats his dog like a child - he bought a christmas gift for the dog. The kids' gift was called a "family" gift. He saved the cremation ashes and mounted a picture of his former dog. He had a fit when I almost discarded the box thinking it was dirt from some beach he had spent a vacation on with his ex and was still hanging onto...

Does that answer your question?

I who have children have some attachment to my dog but not to that extent...

V.

Today on Dr. Phil (once in a blue moon I have 5 min. for him), here is a couple, and the husband complaining about his wife and 'her R' with her dog... that is something like sunny's fiance with his dog... and more, the dog often sleeps with her... and she said to her hubby if she had to chose between two of them it'd be the dog...
They have a grown up daughter out of home

Dr. Phil's advice - dogs mark their territory, why don't you do the same? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OK, so I have a coffee date for tomorrow with one of the dog women <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />... I'll let you know how it goes.

AGG

You go AGG!
Can't wait to hear about the hot-dog-woman!

K.

Hey Agg,

Hope you don't mind me jumping in here. Don't feel so bad, I went through the e-harmony test and at the end they told me there were no matches! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I guess they don't even want me as a member! I personally don't like the e-harmony style because I feel it is too selective. If I knew who I wanted I'd be with him now! I don't like the idea of ruling out anyone. I like to keep an open mind. It may not be someone I'd ever put myself with but if I met him, I just might say to myself well what do you know, this is perfect! It's like trying new food. Just take one bite and see if you like it!

NMNK is a red flag for me. I automatically think player, commitment phobe, etc. Since I have a child, I think that would be a problem. There are still two parenting styles to mix, and one of them has no experience. Years of parenting come with a higher level of patience for childlike antics.

My pet peeve is the motorcycles. It seems like 80% of the guys in my area that post personals feature their motorcycle as their #1 feature. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I don't care about your material possessions, I want to know what kind of person you are. I love my new car and I love taking drives but it wouldn't even enter my mind to post a photo of it on a personal ad saying "Let's go riding this weekend".

Oh well. Right now I'm still a browser. I don't pay for any service, I just look. I'm warming up to it a little bit though. I really just don't want to post pictures of myself on the internet. This may sound oldfashioned but I have a young son. It just doesn't seem appropriate that his mom would have her picture posted on Yahoo! with her innermost thoughts looking for "a special someone". A double standard? You bet. Hmmmm . . . . . I'm going to be single for a while aren't I?

I did have a date though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I met him at work (a contractor, doesn't work there) and he was sooooooo handsome I had trouble putting a sentence together in his presence. I giggled a lot. We had a fabulous time and he took me to the fanciest restaurant near us. We talked nonstop for 3 hours, had a lot in common (his wife left him for another man last year) and I didn't want the night to end. When he told me he likes to shop I thought I was going to take my clothes off right there on the spot (just kidding folks!) Lots of sparks. Turns out he was just in the dating around stage and had been dating someone else for a little while. The two of them are now exclusive. It's all good. He was really on the rebound anyway. But it did put a skip in my step for quite a while. That is until those dang family and date oriented holidays brought me down. Here's to 2007! I'm home free until Easter! Woo Hoo!

One more thing about the pets. I don't think anything is wrong with "can't live without my dog". I interpret it as being very attached to their pet. I think that is a healthy sign that they are a loving and caring person. Unless of course, they are squirreling away more clothes for their pet than Imelda Marcos has shoes.

But, I must admit it is a little bit of a turnoff when the guys post a bunch of pictures of their dogs or cats. I want to see pictures of YOU, not your cat Princess. It looks a bit neurotic to me.

Just my two cents.

I agree with the dog thing and you can throw in cats also.

I have found so many women, who have never married, and never had kids, are infatuated with their pets. I've had women cut short or refuse dates because Snoopy or Garfield needs to be feed, walked or just gets lonely.

I will not play 2nd fiddle to an animal.

I doubt that. It is more likely taken from the section where they type in what they must have in life.

I have to agree with AGG. There is a definite difference between a woman who has never married and/or had kids and one who has. They seem to have a different outlook on life. I do not know if that is a result of not having a spouse and children, or a cause of not having had a spouse or children.
But, there is a definate difference. What is it? I am not sure, but I will take a few educated shots at it.

1. They are to picky, overweighting a man's negatives as compared to his positives.

2. They are very independent and don't want to lose that independence. So, the self-fulfilling proficy goes into motion and they make sure they drive him away.

3. They do not trust. I have seen the look in their eyes at times when I make a perfectly innocent offer to give them a ride when their car is in the shop, or setup the new TIVO. The look says "what is your real intention?"

4. They have an inflated image of themselves. They think they are great athletes, marvelous cooks, world travelers, artistic mavens, and sexual super women. As a result, no mortal man (which we all are) can match them. None of us is worthy.

By the way, I am sure a lot of this also applies to men who are NMNK.

I can't speak for AGG, only myself. I make my judgments based upon what these women say and do. They allow their dog to jump all over me and chew on my shoes, they cancel dates because their neighbor can't leave work early enough to feed Snoopy, they tell me they always hike with their dog even when it limits the trails we can take.

Note, that in none of these cases would the animal have suffered (except for a few hours of temporary hunger at most) if the owner would have treated me as though I was a bit more important than the pet.

LOL shattered.I too would avoid anyone with a Harley, (NOT a Dr.Harley!).My ex had a really nice BMW motorcycle a long time ago and it was fun to go riding but not anymore,with my kids around.Too dangerous.

More negatives:

-tattoos of any sort( yuk)
-smokers
-drinkers(occasional ones ok)
-overweight/beer bellies(not looking for Adonis but just want someone fit)
-lives with parents <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
-sports fanatic (think Fever Pitch)
-roving eyes
-womanizer
-past/present cheater
-needy: wants another "Mom" to take care of them or wants a maid <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

To name a few.




Ugh.That may be me one day.I have sorta high "standards"? shall we say.But I know what I want in a man and I would be willing to compromise on some things but if there's no match then I'd rather be alone.I enjoy it very much right now anyway.

I have not had a pet since I was a child because of allergies, but I do have friends, sisters that are part of this "pet phenomenon" I consider these people "pet people"
someone who has never had children cannot understand being a parent. that is precisely why they compare pets to kids. it is their lack of knowledge of the complexities of raising children that allows them to place a human in the same category as an animal.

I bet if I never had kids I would believe that my dog was the most important thing in my life. Imagine what it must be like to never have been married. When you have a faithful pet, who is there for you every day and night when a man or woman is not, or has never been. I imagine that loving caring unconditional love may be cherished so deeply because it is the only living thing NMNK people may have to count on. it is their comfort when for so long they have been let down by the opposite sex.
IMO this may be more about what the women have not recieved in life, maybe from a man, rather than what they are willing to give. they KNOW that their dog will be loyal, there every evening. This screams of insecurities, that mayb e what you are really up against. Will these women ever trust a human like they trust their pets???. just some food for thought

Interesting question, AGG. I'm not sure about the dogs, though I know men who love their dogs, too, but I'm surprised there are so many 42-48 NMNK women out there... I can only think of one woman friend in that category (and she's my age, which is about 10 years older). Do you limit your geographic area? I mean, is this a local phenomenon or are these women from all over the country?

The only guy I ever dated from e-harmony was a NMNK, too. He said he'd always dated much younger women with disastrous results. It made me concerned, too, and then I met Mr. 11 weeks (NK) and that was it for Mr. NMNK.

Shattered, I didn't get any matches from e-harmony for about 3 months. I wrote and told them I was going to cancel and all of a sudden I started getting matches - even though, at the same time I decreased my geographic area from the entire world to a 50 mile radius. Makes you wonder about their matching system. But, I've known several people who met their true love there, so who knows... And, I too, seem to live in one of those areas where a lot of guys show pictures of themselves with their Harleys!

fightingback, the largest group of dog lovers I know are older, retired people, either married or single, either childless or with grown children and even grandchildren. I worked for a veterinarian for years and there was a couple who'd bring their Boston Terrier in every weekend just to show off his latest outfit. I could give lots of other examples, too.

In my humble opinion, that's just not true. I have spoken up for those of us, over 40, divorced pet owners that absolutely DO understand what an awesome responsibility being a parent is......and I have the highest regard and respect for the parents out there......

I DO understand the responsibility of being a parent, and knowing I was in a miserable marriage, AND as I got older I had doubts as to whether I was committed enough or would be able to handle it well enough, chose NOT to have kids.

I also have pets that I care for deeply. Doesn't mean I'm insecure, untrustworthy of men - it just means that I have pets that I care for deeply. No hidden meaning other than that. My pets are not children substitutes in my life.....

My two cents.
Laura

I don't do LDRs, so I am limiting it to a 60 mile radius, which should include some 10 million people <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. There are bound to be some DWK or DNK women in that population, aren't there?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


How interesting - same thing happened to me. I was about to cancel, so they gave me a two months free membership and started giving me over 6 matches a day (I used to get about 2 a week before that). Sounds very fishy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

Well, I met the dog lady today for coffee and dinner. It was a nice meeting, and there is hope, because her dog is not allowed in the house. So I don't need to worry about sharing the bed with a dog. I told her that in contrast, my kids are allowed in the house, and she did not seem surprised, so she seems to know the difference between kids and dogs - good start.

She did not take my breath away, but we had a good time chatting, and I found a lot in common with her - not as much in the "touchy feely" area where I connected so well with G, but in the more practical day-to-day lifestyle area, where G and I were so out of whack.

This lady is an avid home improver (not many women who own a sliding miter saw and actually use drywall lifts), so we connected well in that regard. She seems to be a lot more "normal" than G - gets up at 7, goes for a run, cooks, follows through on her tasks, etc.

I am not comparing her to G, they are too different. But it is interesting to meet someone with whom I seem to be so well lined up in the Practical Dimension, and whose personality matches mine pretty well. I think we actually might do a house project for our second date, I think it'll be fun.

I might even meet the dog next time; I think it's OK, it's not like meeting kids, right?

AGG

I don't know...if the dog growls, you might be ruled out right away. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Hope? Well great AGG! Sounds like the date went very well.


That's okay. That's how many good relationships start right?
The day-to-day sounds more resonable too. Daily living is where it gets all real anyway and the dealbreakers come into play.

You're living on the edge a little, gonna meet the dog? Protect the long arms you mentioned.

K.

Good point... And what if the dog gets attached to me, I'd hate to break her (the dog's) heart if things don't work out with me and the dog lady. So you think I should hold off on meeting the dog? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

AGG

Wow, AGG... 10 million people within 60 miles... I'm sure there's a lot of just about anything in that large a sample! My sample area is smaller and undoubtedly significantly less diverse.

AFS is right. If the dog growls, you may be toast in this lady's eyes. Just kidding! It sounds like she's got some balance about the dog.

True. And it's not like I am unattracted to her, she's a pretty lady - just not the breathtaking type (not like I am either <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ). But it felt very comfortable chatting, the personalities are well matched, and our hobbies and interests seem to be in alignment as well.

Now, I am going to make wiftty very happy here, because I specifically told her that while I am looking for someone to eventually date exclusively, I have no expectations about anything beyond that. So it certainly relieves the pressure of the "where is this going" concerns that I always seem to get from women after a few dates. So this feels very relaxed at this point - no pressure.


Oh, no worries, I am keeping all appendages safely tucked away, with that fierce dog nearby!

AGG

WOW! take a walk on the wild side! this type of relationship would be more satisfying in the long run than a visually appealling relationship in the long run.

oh, nice touch with the comment about the children allowed inside. . . LOL!

after watching part of the movie, Mr&Mrs smith, starring brad pitt and angela jolie, i understand why Pitt dumped annistat for jolie. . . in that movie, as a professional, she matched him in acting in an action film. . .

that to me can be very seductive, an equal in work terms in the same profession. . . however, i would find that not a good long term relationship for me, due to lack of adventure outside of work, which to me, brings added dimensions to a relationship, . . . retirement or career changes could add stress)

i like this matchup, and i think a home construction second date would be ideal. . . each comfortable in your own environments . . .

wiftty

Yeah, I agree. It's new territory for me, but so far I kinda like it. The new wild AGG, wow <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.



I like it too so far, and I am seriously considering a house project as a second date. Me, her, and power tools, who knows where that could go <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />. Oh, and a dog <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.

AGG