I really need some advice...

Here's a brief timeline:

2000: Met, fell in love
2002: Married
* Noticed he was a lover of partying on weekends (I didn't bother to take that red flag seriously at the time, but then he began to drink on a daily basis and alone...beginning of the end)
2003: We bought a home, he continued to drink but was still working, so was I
2004: I got pregnant, things actually got worse. He claimed to have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I felt it was the liquor bringing him down. He had gained about 50 lbs, stopped taking showers often, and just drinking SO SO SO much on a daily basis. He still kept his job.
2005: Birth of our first daughter, he continued to drink despite my pleas to stop. I joined Alanon
2006: Heavy drinking, I was not working, I was staying home with my baby. Got pregnant again (I know, I know)
2007: Birth of our second daughter and he decided to quit his job and relocate the family, I thought maybe things would be better. We left the state and went country
2008: He hated his new job and said he was going to quit (didn't really care what I wanted). Landlady came and said she was moving back in and we had a month to get out. I told him I was leaving him and taking the kids.
2008: I filed for divorce and full custody and went to live with my dad in another state. THe divorce was finalized. I got back into my career, found childcare, and eventually got my own apartment. He moved to the same state I was in and got a job and went back to school. He got laid off, but continued school. STILL DRINKING.
2009: He was still drinking, but saying he wanted me back. I said no, that I couldn't accept being with an actively drinking alcoholic.
early 2010: He still wanted me back but continued to drink. I told him that he needed help and that I just personally can't live with him drinking. And also that it was more than just the drinking anyhow. It was everything. The way he is with finances, with how he was such a jerk to me, etc, etc.
NOW: He says he hasn't had a drink in three months. Threw all of his wine glasses, shot glasses, and flasks away. He said he started to get really bad hangovers and depression when drinking even small amounts of liquor; that he's giving it up for good. He says he also wants me back and wants to give everything to me, to be a devoted husband and father. He says he loves me and the kids and wants to fix everything and that he is sorry.

Sigh.

I have to admit, it seems like a wonderful prospect, being with him and the girls if he is going to be sober and getting healthy. He's begun to get involved in church which he'd never been before. He's seeing a counselor. He's quit drinking.

My main worry is that he'll work hard now to get us back, kind of like reaching a goal...but once he gets it, I worry he'll relapse into the same behaviors again, maybe even drink again.

He isn't in AA but says he's willing to go to the meetings if I am going to say that's a stipulation in us getting back together.

He claims he gets all the support he needs from church and just from knowing how much liquor screwed up his body and his life.

????? What do i do???

My kids are 3 and 5. I finally have a stable life. I've told him I will NOT move from here and I will not leave my job that I love. I will not move the kids out of their school. He claims as long as he has us, he's committed to staying here (he rather be back in our home state).

edited to say he is not working and looking for work. He's on unemployment.

If he is truly not drinking and is willing to give you as much time as you need to trust him again, I don't see a problem with giving him a cautious second chance. That does not mean supporting him while he is unemployed. Let him get a job, stay sober, keep going to church, and date him for a year or two. Keep your place and let him keep his.

I agree. Date. Watch how he functions and handles stress over time. If he can stay sober for a couple of years while learning how to keep a job and handle not getting his way all the time, he may be ready for a Marriage Builder online class.

Most of all, pre-nup needs to be mandatory if you do in fact remarry. You need an easy way out if he reverts back to his drinking unemployed status.

That right there are If he is actually willing to try to quit drinking he wouldn't say this, he would be already at AA, while I was reading I was thinking 3 months? That's all? With his background he needs at least a year with out a drink for me to say ok we can start to date, but when I read what he said about this? I knew IMMEDIATELY that he is LYING!

SORRY no go for him! wait till a year then you'll find out his true colors

DITTO

.... especially the "year or two" part.
Use contraception if having sex with him.

YES to this stipulation.

PLUS, he must get a male sponsor within a reasonable period of time. Like 4 weeks.

Thanks everyone, for the advice.

He had the kids for the past three days. He invited me over last night and the night before. I hung out with them, we made a gingerbread house that he got on sale. We talked some after the kids went to sleep.

I told him that I really wanted to see what he's made out of standing on his own two feet and that three months is not a very long time to be sober. I agreed that it was a big step for him, but that more time was needed to see if he's serious. He really wanted me to commit that if he does all these things (gets work in this state, continues to quit drinking and goes to AA, doesn't date anyone else...well, he wants that for both of us) that he'll get me back, that we'll work together for a common goal of our family being reunited.

This weekend has been hard, especially last night. I was flooded with thoughts about how miserable things were at the end and how I begged him to get help, but he wouldn't. I was recalling all I've been through as a single mom, paying for pretty much everything. Although he did give me about $500/month, with childcare being $1300/month and medical insurance at $200/month, it just hasn't been enough. However, I guess since he's been on unemployment for a year, he's given what he could. ANYHOW, it's been misery and I finally have stability in my life and I owe that all just to me and a couple of family members/friends who've helped along the way.

On the other hand, I was also flooded with thoughts of how much I love him and all that I loved when I did marry him. I thought about how wonderful it'd be to be together, to get a home, to work things out as partners finally. And, of course, for the kids to have their parents back together and to see us be loving. I have to say spending time with him and the girls was really nice. I felt like giving in this weekend, but would not.

So then my brain reverts back and says it'll all fall apart. Ugh.

I don't know.

But, I know I can't make a decision to be with him right now anyhow.

In addition to all of this, this one guy I've been dating off and on asked me to come out this weekend. I didn't go. It had pretty much turned into more of a physical thing anyhow, so whatever. But I am feeling like I should focus on myself, my kids, and a possibility with my ex rather than dating other guys. In the dating world, I've found that I just don't care to be in a relationship with other guys. With two small children, that's been a challenge...even with the really nice guys who aren't alkies!

Thanks again. I'll let you know what happens as things go on...

p.s. says he's going to AA tonight and that the sponsor idea seems like a good one. We'll see how this goes.

I agree...let your XH go to AA for a year, be holding down a job, continuing church attendance, complete abstinence, and then see how it goes. Keep some distance, so you don't get sucked right back in emotionally. You continue Al-Anon.

1TS,

I was going to say you should date him casually if you want to, but after three paragraphs, I wrote something that made me entirely rethink this.

I wrote something about your children. I don't think you should date him until he's been sober a year or so, and you are at least 80% sure you want a relationship with him. If you date him, and things don't work out, it's not just the two of you who will be affected. Your children would be hurt as well. I wouldn't want that to happen to your kids. (My friend's children are going through that right now.)

If you do start dating him, don't tell the children. Get a baby sitter.

If he goes to AA and agrees it is the best thing for him.
If he continues at church and you can attend with him.
If the church has solid teaching of individual accountability and consequences.
If he grows, and you can see it, and in a couple of years he is strong and overcome whatever weakness or excuse he had for being so selfish all those years.
If he agrees with the principles of marriage as laid out on this site and does the work that the tools here give him.

Then there is a chance.

Make sure you don't accept anything less, or he will likely relapse. Do this for him.

If he's hanging his personal recovery on your "commitment" right now, I'd say absolutely no go here.

He needs to be sober for the sake of his quality of life and the lives of his children.

He's looking for a quick fix, which means quick relapse.

Just say NO - for now. Minimum 1 year of recovery, sobriety and working with a sponsor, not just dry drunk.

His pressing for a commitment just now tells me he's a dry drunk looking to lean on you. Not a good thing.

No, this just will not do.

He must recover because he knows it is the best and healthiest thing for him. He should do it because it is right - not out of the hopes of getting his family back.

Because then what happens when you get back together and it isn't as cheery as he's idealized it in his mind? Right back to the drink.

I agree with others - don't commit. I know you love him and love your family. Love them enough to stand up for them and REAL recovery.

He needs AA, a serious commitment to it. He needs a sponsor. He needs a year of sobriety before you even CONSIDER a casual relationship.

He's put you and your girls through enough. He may never be the man y'all need him to be. He might though - you can leave that door cracked, but don't set a foot inside it until he's shown demonstrable changes for a consistent period of time. This is for the health and safety of you AND your girls.


THIS.

My wife was a dry drunk for years, She insisted she didn't need AA cuz "God" had forgiven her. That of course is between her and God. You and I are human. We cannot function as God nor can we be expected to bounce back and replace God in his life.

She "behaved" well, she did everything she respected and still she had some unrealistic expectations that came from the original illness that drove her to drink. A mental and emotional one.

Yes he is really sorry, yes he wants to restore his marriage, yes he is seeking out God for forgiveness and the promises God provides for us, but dollars to donuts he still has issues that he can't see yet, and pampering him will keep them hidden, probably leading him back into relapse if he doesn't take care of them now.

Don't fool yourself into believing you have anything to do with his drinking and you can save him from himself. Only truth will do it, and he doesn't know it yet.

If you put this off, and enable him for years as he starts, "acting better and is tolerable", you might be condemning him to death. if whatever drove him to drink is not dealt with and something triggers him when he gets older, he might not have a chance to overcome it.

You need to be strong for him, tough love, be alone, suffer this with support from Alanon, us, friends and family, and us in the loniness you will feel.

To be honest you are being selfish if you let him came back now. Sorry its true, I know it cuz I've lived it myself.

My wife relapsed, she had already forgot what most people know about God, scriptures, forgivness, restoration, grace. She was a pillar in her church, taught many about grace, helped raise some children up to be accountable Knew the application of scripture and attended bible colledge, meditated for hours on the word of God. She could quote Gods answer to many peoples problems at the drop of a hat. She had that gift. But it wasn't enough to keep her away from drinking and the triggers that put her there. Nieither was it enough for her to deal with the issues that troubled her as she still lived in denial she had them. A core fear triggered her and she went back.

Did you know, that when an alcoholic relapes, say ten years from sobriety, it is like they had been drinking all that time?
All the damage they would have done to themselves, physically but especially emotionnally, during that time they were sober is done just like they were drinking all that time.

I will pray you have the strength to trust God for the consequences of you obedience to what he says about your H. He wants to and needs to handle Him. alone. To make him what he planned him to be. That may be a husband to you, it may not, but you too have God for your needs.

I give this verse that God gave to me when my life fell apart as my wife relapsed

From jerimiah 15

"18Why is my pain perpetual, and my wound incurable, which refuseth to be healed? wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar, and as waters that fail?

19Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.

20And I will make thee unto this people a fenced brasen wall: and they shall fight against thee, but they shall not prevail against thee: for I am with thee to save thee and to deliver thee, saith the LORD.

21And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible."


He needs to do this alone, seekout the truth, dig deep and understand his condition and why, not just the triggers but the emotional reactions and conditions why they are there, and learn to hate them. He needs to be set free, you can help do that. The verse is for you too.

going to re post this, because my feelings are still the same with this guy.

Wait a year till you start dating, you will see is true colors, if he is sober for a year then that is a green light, but if he isn't then everything he said to you is just another lye, just another manipulation to get you back.

Again, all who posted, I am hearing you and really do thank you.

I talked with him last night. He wanted to know if we could get together and have a family dinner night once a week now. I said no. I told him that I feel he's assuming he has the "cat in the bag," so to speak, and that he does not. I asked him what he'd do should I never go back with him. I asked if he'd stop being nice to me then, if he doesn't get what he wants. He said he doesn't know, that his heart would be completely broken. He said he knows this is right and that God wants him to repair this. That God wants him to help fix all the things he's done to me. I did ask the hard questions like is it possibly his guilt that is driving this, etc, etc. He just doesn't see. And you're right, he may see these things while in AA and maybe even realize that it is guilt and not even love. Who knows??

The thing is, and I voiced this to him last night, I am happy with where I'm at. I'm happy with the stability I've given my kids. I'm happily not dating anyone anymore. I'm happy in my job and with my friends. And to risk going back to the hell that life was when I was with him is not something I'm willing to do right now. Yah, maybe after a year, if he's still sober and hasn't lost his mind from not getting what he wants so quickly, maybe.

I do hope for it.

But I'm not counting on it. The sad thing is that he really is...and BOY does that bring out the Codependent person in me. It has me feeling like I have to meet his demand to make him feel okay. Sigh. I still have a lot of growing to do as well then.

This whole thing is so hard. But I have learned this summer that I'm not ready to date. That being a mom, friend, and worker is enough. My BIGGEST struggle is to not feel responsible for his feelings.

;-0

It would be extremely unfair to give the kids false hope at this point. If you change your mind and want to date him sooner rather than later, treat him like a new person and date him without involving the kids for awhile. Protect them from getting their hopes up. You might have moved on and may not want to revisit a relationship with your ex at all after a few dates. Things change. You may have outgrown him.

Still: I agree. I've asked him to not even mutter a word of his thoughts to them and that I tell them simply that the way things are as of now is that the three of us live together (me and my two daughters) and their dad and I are not together. And that we have a good life and we're doing well. I ask them if they're happy, they have said they are very happy. I ask if they have questions about me and their dad and they typically do not. He's reported that my older daughter says she wants us all to be together. I don't know if it's a lie or if they just tell him that because they know he's hoping for it???? But I am firm with them and they don't talk too much about that with me.

If I go out with him as in dating, yes, I would have my stepmom or dad come watch the girls and I'd meet him somewhere.

I even question whether I should "hang out" with him and the girls like we did the other night. We are absolutely unromantic at those times, but I do wonder if the kids are confused by it. However, they really don't seem confused around me or distraught or any of that.

I think they're happy with the way things are except I feel when they are staying over there, perhaps they are small and just want me there too. ??? That's normal I think.

Oh well. I don't know but I know I can't give into him now.

P.s. Still: I copied down that verse from Proverbs and stuck it on my wall just now.

Sounds like your doing the right thing here, and stills advice is good.

If you hadn't suffered for so long with someone who has such an alcohol problem advice might be diffent as in the attempts to save the marriage, but you have been divorced for a couple years and have probably learned to live without him. Seems you have control over your co-dependant side.

Don't know if you've read this but it was what caused me to come to MB after my wife passed on. I did a search on google to find out what happened to me, what was wrong with me, why I had fallen into a pit I could not get out of. The search was "Problems from living with an alcoholic spouse". After sifting thru the stuff talking about treatment I came to this stuff from Dr. Harley, and after reading all the stuff on the site, I knew he had a handle on it and what I needed.

I then sorted out what was my responsibity and what was not and the guilt feelings that were plauging me. I wasn't attempting to restore mymarriage, I was tring to restore me. Thats job 1 for any marriage, to keep the oxygen mask on.


As I too thought I should and could be able to help my wife with her drug dependance which started with alcohol for years but then got worse the old truth is they are in love with the drug, or bottle.

My personal belief that they were running from other fears and issues in thier life, and if I could do all the right things with patience mixed with truth and consequences to help them heal was the job of a therapist and God.

As far as my influence it became more muted as she became more secure that I would be around. I became more co-dependant and an enabler, and It was a constant battle even when she was a dry drunk. Truly your spirit can get destroyed by someone you are bonded so closly to as in marriage.

She really had some remarkable human traits. I suppose that blinded me to the truth, but it was still no excuse for either of us. IYKWIM.

Here are some things I found when I did a search for "alcohol" on this site. They may secure your conviction that you are doing the right thing, as well as inspire your hope in future relationships.

1. (96.16%) Alcoholic Spouse #1
2. (92.03%) Abusive Marriage #5
3. (91.16%) Alcoholic Spouse #2
4. (86.58%) Alcoholic Spouse #3
7. (81.64%) Should I Remarry My Ex-Spouse? Letter #1
10. (79.67%) How the Co-dependency Movement Is Ruining Marriages

Sorry you have to go thru this but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Hope you are doing well 1TS. I empathize with you on both points- that it is SO hard not to take responsibility for the feelings of those we love. I thought I was over this myself, until a guy I had been dating for a few weeks was having a rough day: I told him I wish I knew how to make him feel better but I didn�t. He said �It�s not your job to make me happy.� I was so shocked!

The other thing I feel for you is the not sure you want him back. My husband was addicted to risk/money not alcohol, but with very similar �Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde� behavior. Always apologizing, but never actually following through on getting help and stopping the harmful behavior. At first, I really wanted to save our family, and entertained taking him back. With the guidance of those on this board (postings disappeared when the server crashed last year) I laid out some very reasonable conditions he would have to meet and precautions we would have to take from this point forward. He decided it wasn�t worth it. After being single 11 months, having stabilized my son�s life, care, and schedule things are so much better. There is NO way I would go back with that man, and I no longer feel OBLIGATED to do so or GUILTY for not. My son is happy now. He doesn�t cry all night. He has friends. They can actually come over and play with him. Life is good. And my ex has not changed.

Hope you stay firm in your decision to do what�s best for your kids (whether that ever includes him doing what he needs to do in order to renew a relationship with you).

DTC

Daisy and Process:

Thank you for the thoughts.

The issue of feeling responsible for someone else's feelings is still there but I think I have more of a handle on it, yes. Daisy, I had a similar experience with a guy I was dating and wanted to fix his bad week, say something or do something to make him happy so I could feel useful or loved. Wild. He didn't respond either, he just said that he wasn't looking for someone to fix it, he is just having a crappy week.

The most important thing is my girls are happy and calm. My oldest was not a happy child back when ex and I were together. We were too busy arguing to give her what she needed. I'd give her a lot when he was at work, but once he got home and the drinking started, things really fell apart (I was a stay at home mom for a few years).

Now I have my career and finances on track.

He is currently in debt and barely out of school looking for work at age 40. He already had a masters, but hated his career so he went in a totally different direction. Anyhow, when I left, I felt like I was on the Titanic and had to get off. I still feel that way. Not only that, I had to row way out as to not go down with the ship due to the pull from it sinking. Now, I think he's trying to tread water and get his life in order, but his life is still chaotic. I don't want that in my life.

And I told him this late last night that I'm simply happy and don't need the chaos. He continued to say he knows what I need and what is right. He said it again when he called me today. I had to school him and let him know that there was a time when I questioned whether I even had the ability to know or find out what was right for me...and now I let him know that I know ME better than anyone and I'm perfectly capable of figuring out what is right for me. He's so used to being in the driver's seat! It's interesting to note. He's so used to me just agreeing with him and going along for the ride.

Oh well. Who knows, but I am not deciding on this in 2010. I know that.

Thanks!!!!

He is being very disrespectful to assume that he knows what you want or need better than you. He is not listening to you. He is telling you how it is. HUGE RED FLAG!!!! I would not even date him at this point.

Often times when people counsel here it sounds like they have no mercy and are beating the crap out of your dreams. I want to assure you that we all know how hard it is to come back from this stuff, both on your half and his. The advice given can be hard, but its objective and we are not wrapped up in the sitch so its benificial in the long run.



This is a great attitude on your part and was generous of you to give him the time and explain yourself and your growth, but it still speaks of his attitude of "I want to come home, forget it all, and it will all be better". Its more of his denial coming out. Although it may be good for him and you to be kind to him when you HAVE to talk to him. Even that is leading him on and endangering his recovery and sobriety. Not to mention the heartache of talking to someone you know inside needs more than coming home, and the chance you will be drawn in again.

You should let him know you don't want to talk to him, and find an intermediary person he can communicate to you through. The IM should be aware of what to pass on to you that is appropiate and allways be the only way he can communicate with you. Everything, including visits with the children, should be done without personal contact and thru the IM. I know you think that you are smarter and capable of handling it, and maybe you are smarter, but I assure you it will just drag out his recovery and be more pain dealt out in the long run. You've come a long way, let him find his own too.




Absolutly..This is hard and fast good judgement and advice. Listen to these words and trust them.


Sounds like a responsible attitude on his part, why drag someone into something they can't do anything about? Its his responsibility and he is handling it. Now if you had done something wrong and he didn't address it, and tried to handle it if it was seriuos, that would have been unhealthy for him and you. I think you know this now but want to warn you cuz you used to do that and it can sneak back in.

Don't feel bad, we all grow out of this behaviuor as we mature, if we mature and grow. I wouldn't rob a young couple of the experience of trying to make it all better and all the emotional dependancy that comes from it. I would also want to see them grow past it while learning about themselves. Your XH has a long way to go.


First what guy with a masters decides to go another way when he can provide for his family? A selfish and messed up one. This must have been devastating for you to endure. Knowing he had the means to care for you and yet he drank and played escape artist for every important responsibility. This so typical for severe alcoholics, or denial in general,to be looking for the perfect situation because the world owes them happiness.

He should have been happy with what he had, and untill you could take no more you probably thought it was up to you and it dragged you down. Like you said, you had to row far away from the ship. I know how this feels and have experienced it.

Just as a warning, if he trys to sell you somehow that God will be mad at you for not giving him a chance, don't buy it. God expects you to come to God, not play God. God will be angry if you get between H and Him. God knows H needs it.


I truly hope that he can be the man you need him to be, for you and you children reguardless if you decide to get back together. He is a long way from that and accepting responsibility for his actions. I can tell that from his desire to be hame and the time it took to get even a little help to realize how messed up he was.

When he can accept that you don't have to even shouldn't take him back and the massive pain he caused you is so embarrassing to him, and he cares enough about you to let you go completly rather than expect you to forgive him for it and live in fear, maybe he will start to be a better friend and father for the children.

He still is asking you to handle it and take more and us humans are not built for that, trust me I know. For your childrens sake be strong, because you know how he can drag you down.

What they said, plus
From what you've said, your ex sounds scared and desperate. He's coming to you of fear and not love, caring or security. And he has demonstrated ZERO ability to care for you. (NOTE: I use "love" to mean the feeling and "care" to mean the action. Your actions (care) cause his feelings (love) and vice versa.)

It may be worth while, Twisted, to figure out if you feel love for this man, or you love the man you think he could be, or if you love the idea of being married to the father of your children. That may not change what you do now or even in the future, but it may be important to know.

I think he's coming to you because he wants you to "fix things" so he doesn't have to (codependency). You need to show him the strong independent woman that you are and let HIM be responsible for HIM separate and apart from you. Tell you'll take a look in a year or two at what he's done to better himself, but for right now YOU need the space as you're still working on YOU and taking care of your kids! Ten to one he doesn't have what it takes to do what he needs to do to make things right in his own life, let alone think about the kids and what's best for them.

x2

Yah.

I think he's used to the self doubt that was basically a huge part of who I was. All he had to do was plant seeds and he could manipulate me into going along with just about anything. He keeps trying this, in a much nicer way, but still, he keeps trying to get me to think what he's thinking...and since it's not totally working...or seems to work but then he gets a call from me saying otherwise, he's confused.

I'm sure it'd be better if I didn't speak to him and had someone in between, but I know myself and that won't happen.

I do believe that since I don't contact him very often and only return his calls if I think it's necessary, I don't feel I'm getting in the way of his recovery too much. I believe that his recovery is his issue, I know I can't do anything to help it along.

My children have been with me every day this week (I'm on vacation) and they've said nothing to me about being together. I think it could be that he's manipulating them (i.e. wouldn't it be nice if mom and dad were together kids?) and then saying they've said it. I wouldn't know. I just find it strange that he tells me the girls say this all the time to him yet they hardly say a thing to me.

Anyhow, I know in my heart that the timing isn't right. It may never be.

I also know that I do have a love for him and haven't figured out whether it's love for something he used to be or something I wish he'd be or something he is. I'm confused about that right now.

Most important, I have stability for myself and my kids. And that's worth more than anything to me.

Good for you!!!

Stability is vitally important for children, people don't always look at it in that perspective for their kids. And then the kids are dragged through stuff they never should be and they have no stability!!!

Stay strong!!!! I have a necklace that a youth group was selling that symbolizes "staying strong" they were staying strong against drugs and alcohol, but I wear it as a reminder whenever I need to stay strong against something in my life. Maybe you can find a symbol for yourself that reminds you that you are staying strong and providing stability for your kids. Just a thought!!!

Dawn

Good Twisteds, Glad you are moving forward, and wisely.

These past two weeks have seriously been a test in strength. I am certain GOd is testing me.

The one guy I did sleep with in these two years I've been divorced called me up last weekend asking me to come out. Saying no was hard, but I did because I know what he wants and I think we all know what that is!! Also, this other guy I dated lightly keeps telling me pretty much all I've been wanting to hear all these years from ex...but I told him I can't deal with him either because I just don't need a relationship of this kind in my life right now. I've got WAY too much on my plate just with my own self, my girls, and my work.

I'm alone tonight. THe kids are at their dads...and a part of me wishes I could do the whole friends with benefits thing with that guy I mentioned.

Anyhow, it's been a tremendous exercise in self control for me this week between ex's pleas to be together, the guy on the side guy wanting to be with me, and that other guy being Mr. Romantic Guy. Sigh. Forget them all. I'm having chocolate icecream and calling it a night!

Stability is the goal.

Day: Good idea about the symbol. I have a bracelet. I also have various quotes around the house on post-its to remind me...

YAY YOU!



I remember that confusion. Some people indeed feel love for the current spouse. Some feel love for what the spouse used to be. Some feel love for what they wish he could be, or what they thought he was. In my case, I felt �love� but it was more for the status of being married. So selfish, I know. I loved the status of being �married� and, I hate to admit, was more in love with the idea of being *somebodys* wife than with being *his* wife. To me, being married meant I was worthwhile. Being single meant I was worthless. Thank God for counseling so I no longer feel that way!

Just so you know, most of the divorce sites I�ve read say it�s normal to still feel love for this person who represents a huge portion of your past. You�ll sort it out in time. I can�t find the link, but I thought even this site likened it to gashing your hearts apart, and little pieces of each other still stuck together� little pieces of him stuck in your heart in spite of all the pain he�s put you through. So that�s normal.



YAY YOU again! One more round of applause for 1TS!!

I think it's okay to love someone so long as you do what's best for you and the kids and don't let that love get in the way of reason and sanity. LOL
You're doing well! What kind of ice cream???

I'm doing my best. Sigh...the old lover texted me last night saying he really wanted to be with me. I said no. That was really hard cuz I was lonely too. But I also know I had to get up this morning and work (the kids are at their dad's right now). I have to be sure to put the kids first, of course, but I have to put myself up higher on the priority list than I used to. There was a time I'd have cared more about that guy's loneliness than my own need for sleep and sanity.

And as for my ex, well, I guess we'll just see. He had a second job interview with the same company today, so i'm hoping he gets this job. It'd be really good for him; he's excited.

Thanks for the thoughts about how normal it is to continue to love them. I guess it's been difficult to understand for me. When my mom and dad broke up, well, let's just say my mother continues to hate my dad 30 years later. I never saw one ounce of love within either one of them for the other. It amazes me in a bad way.

We're all different. Some of us love so completely that it takes time for it to play itself out...and maybe the love was long over before your mom and dad split. For myself, I loved my ex a long time after he deserved to have me hate him! LOL
I can honestly say that I am now over him completely. You know you're over them when you feel indifferent, the wedding band in your drawer doesn't mean anything to you anymore, it's just a hunk of jewelry. My exfiance, however, it's still killing me, but it's so fresh, I realize that I'll get over him eventually but it'll take time, maybe a couple of years? Who knows, but I'll know when I'm there.
I think it's great that you recognized what YOU need instead of running to fill someone else's wants.

1TS - there is a thread I think you could provide some valuable insight for over in 101. Here

She is stuck in an abusive situation with a man with a drinking problem. Maybe you could provide some insight as to how you made it out.

Vibrissa: Done

Wow. Reading her post really solidified why I'm not wanting to be with my ex!!

I hope she gets out of that.

By the way, he got the job.

I'm glad about it. He said he'll give me a hundred bucks extra child support now.

Anyhow, after much reflection this week, it still stands (and I told him this) that I really am fine on my own. I don't want to be in any relationship at all.

I do still wish we could be a functioning, normal family. But I doubt it's possible. I also don't want to test that in front of the kids. Their stability is truly truly worth everything to me. I don't care if I'm alone for all of eternity as long as these babies can have stability.

Glad to hear that, the children need stability and not the drama and fear brought in, I agree.

God bless TS

Good for you! I know the temptation cuz none of us like having broken homes, but it's better to have two households and stability IMHO for the kids.

Yup. Nothin' like a crazy mom and an angry alcoholic dad to bring your mood down if you're a kid. :-)

No thanks.

My ex thinks the devil took him over. Sigh. AA says he's "riding the pink cloud" and that reality will come crashing down soon enough.

I'll be here on my stable little island to watch and offer support as a friend in the best way I can.

I love him dearly.

But I love me more.

I think that is what I've really learned from this.

Thanks EVERYONE for your supportive words and encouragement.

Yeah thats denial, he has the ability to tell the devil to go take a hike, and see him for the worm he is.

Till he takes the blame his devil will own him

It's always easier to blame someone/something else than to accept responsibility for ourselves. Gad to hear you're seeing through it.

I'm glad I can come here and get your perspectives. I still catch myself wanting to just buy what he says when he says things like that. It's what he's used to...it's what I was used to. But now, I really do think things over, talk to others, and make sure I'm seeing reality for what it is.

:-)