I really need some advice...

Here's a brief timeline:

2000: Met, fell in love
2002: Married
* Noticed he was a lover of partying on weekends (I didn't bother to take that red flag seriously at the time, but then he began to drink on a daily basis and alone...beginning of the end)
2003: We bought a home, he continued to drink but was still working, so was I
2004: I got pregnant, things actually got worse. He claimed to have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I felt it was the liquor bringing him down. He had gained about 50 lbs, stopped taking showers often, and just drinking SO SO SO much on a daily basis. He still kept his job.
2005: Birth of our first daughter, he continued to drink despite my pleas to stop. I joined Alanon
2006: Heavy drinking, I was not working, I was staying home with my baby. Got pregnant again (I know, I know)
2007: Birth of our second daughter and he decided to quit his job and relocate the family, I thought maybe things would be better. We left the state and went country
2008: He hated his new job and said he was going to quit (didn't really care what I wanted). Landlady came and said she was moving back in and we had a month to get out. I told him I was leaving him and taking the kids.
2008: I filed for divorce and full custody and went to live with my dad in another state. THe divorce was finalized. I got back into my career, found childcare, and eventually got my own apartment. He moved to the same state I was in and got a job and went back to school. He got laid off, but continued school. STILL DRINKING.
2009: He was still drinking, but saying he wanted me back. I said no, that I couldn't accept being with an actively drinking alcoholic.
early 2010: He still wanted me back but continued to drink. I told him that he needed help and that I just personally can't live with him drinking. And also that it was more than just the drinking anyhow. It was everything. The way he is with finances, with how he was such a jerk to me, etc, etc.
NOW: He says he hasn't had a drink in three months. Threw all of his wine glasses, shot glasses, and flasks away. He said he started to get really bad hangovers and depression when drinking even small amounts of liquor; that he's giving it up for good. He says he also wants me back and wants to give everything to me, to be a devoted husband and father. He says he loves me and the kids and wants to fix everything and that he is sorry.

Sigh.

I have to admit, it seems like a wonderful prospect, being with him and the girls if he is going to be sober and getting healthy. He's begun to get involved in church which he'd never been before. He's seeing a counselor. He's quit drinking.

My main worry is that he'll work hard now to get us back, kind of like reaching a goal...but once he gets it, I worry he'll relapse into the same behaviors again, maybe even drink again.

He isn't in AA but says he's willing to go to the meetings if I am going to say that's a stipulation in us getting back together.

He claims he gets all the support he needs from church and just from knowing how much liquor screwed up his body and his life.

????? What do i do???

My kids are 3 and 5. I finally have a stable life. I've told him I will NOT move from here and I will not leave my job that I love. I will not move the kids out of their school. He claims as long as he has us, he's committed to staying here (he rather be back in our home state).

edited to say he is not working and looking for work. He's on unemployment.

If he is truly not drinking and is willing to give you as much time as you need to trust him again, I don't see a problem with giving him a cautious second chance. That does not mean supporting him while he is unemployed. Let him get a job, stay sober, keep going to church, and date him for a year or two. Keep your place and let him keep his.

I agree. Date. Watch how he functions and handles stress over time. If he can stay sober for a couple of years while learning how to keep a job and handle not getting his way all the time, he may be ready for a Marriage Builder online class.

Most of all, pre-nup needs to be mandatory if you do in fact remarry. You need an easy way out if he reverts back to his drinking unemployed status.

That right there are If he is actually willing to try to quit drinking he wouldn't say this, he would be already at AA, while I was reading I was thinking 3 months? That's all? With his background he needs at least a year with out a drink for me to say ok we can start to date, but when I read what he said about this? I knew IMMEDIATELY that he is LYING!

SORRY no go for him! wait till a year then you'll find out his true colors

DITTO

.... especially the "year or two" part.
Use contraception if having sex with him.

YES to this stipulation.

PLUS, he must get a male sponsor within a reasonable period of time. Like 4 weeks.

Thanks everyone, for the advice.

He had the kids for the past three days. He invited me over last night and the night before. I hung out with them, we made a gingerbread house that he got on sale. We talked some after the kids went to sleep.

I told him that I really wanted to see what he's made out of standing on his own two feet and that three months is not a very long time to be sober. I agreed that it was a big step for him, but that more time was needed to see if he's serious. He really wanted me to commit that if he does all these things (gets work in this state, continues to quit drinking and goes to AA, doesn't date anyone else...well, he wants that for both of us) that he'll get me back, that we'll work together for a common goal of our family being reunited.

This weekend has been hard, especially last night. I was flooded with thoughts about how miserable things were at the end and how I begged him to get help, but he wouldn't. I was recalling all I've been through as a single mom, paying for pretty much everything. Although he did give me about $500/month, with childcare being $1300/month and medical insurance at $200/month, it just hasn't been enough. However, I guess since he's been on unemployment for a year, he's given what he could. ANYHOW, it's been misery and I finally have stability in my life and I owe that all just to me and a couple of family members/friends who've helped along the way.

On the other hand, I was also flooded with thoughts of how much I love him and all that I loved when I did marry him. I thought about how wonderful it'd be to be together, to get a home, to work things out as partners finally. And, of course, for the kids to have their parents back together and to see us be loving. I have to say spending time with him and the girls was really nice. I felt like giving in this weekend, but would not.

So then my brain reverts back and says it'll all fall apart. Ugh.

I don't know.

But, I know I can't make a decision to be with him right now anyhow.

In addition to all of this, this one guy I've been dating off and on asked me to come out this weekend. I didn't go. It had pretty much turned into more of a physical thing anyhow, so whatever. But I am feeling like I should focus on myself, my kids, and a possibility with my ex rather than dating other guys. In the dating world, I've found that I just don't care to be in a relationship with other guys. With two small children, that's been a challenge...even with the really nice guys who aren't alkies!

Thanks again. I'll let you know what happens as things go on...

p.s. says he's going to AA tonight and that the sponsor idea seems like a good one. We'll see how this goes.

I agree...let your XH go to AA for a year, be holding down a job, continuing church attendance, complete abstinence, and then see how it goes. Keep some distance, so you don't get sucked right back in emotionally. You continue Al-Anon.

1TS,

I was going to say you should date him casually if you want to, but after three paragraphs, I wrote something that made me entirely rethink this.

I wrote something about your children. I don't think you should date him until he's been sober a year or so, and you are at least 80% sure you want a relationship with him. If you date him, and things don't work out, it's not just the two of you who will be affected. Your children would be hurt as well. I wouldn't want that to happen to your kids. (My friend's children are going through that right now.)

If you do start dating him, don't tell the children. Get a baby sitter.

If he goes to AA and agrees it is the best thing for him.
If he continues at church and you can attend with him.
If the church has solid teaching of individual accountability and consequences.
If he grows, and you can see it, and in a couple of years he is strong and overcome whatever weakness or excuse he had for being so selfish all those years.
If he agrees with the principles of marriage as laid out on this site and does the work that the tools here give him.

Then there is a chance.

Make sure you don't accept anything less, or he will likely relapse. Do this for him.

If he's hanging his personal recovery on your "commitment" right now, I'd say absolutely no go here.

He needs to be sober for the sake of his quality of life and the lives of his children.

He's looking for a quick fix, which means quick relapse.

Just say NO - for now. Minimum 1 year of recovery, sobriety and working with a sponsor, not just dry drunk.

His pressing for a commitment just now tells me he's a dry drunk looking to lean on you. Not a good thing.

No, this just will not do.

He must recover because he knows it is the best and healthiest thing for him. He should do it because it is right - not out of the hopes of getting his family back.

Because then what happens when you get back together and it isn't as cheery as he's idealized it in his mind? Right back to the drink.

I agree with others - don't commit. I know you love him and love your family. Love them enough to stand up for them and REAL recovery.

He needs AA, a serious commitment to it. He needs a sponsor. He needs a year of sobriety before you even CONSIDER a casual relationship.

He's put you and your girls through enough. He may never be the man y'all need him to be. He might though - you can leave that door cracked, but don't set a foot inside it until he's shown demonstrable changes for a consistent period of time. This is for the health and safety of you AND your girls.


THIS.

My wife was a dry drunk for years, She insisted she didn't need AA cuz "God" had forgiven her. That of course is between her and God. You and I are human. We cannot function as God nor can we be expected to bounce back and replace God in his life.

She "behaved" well, she did everything she respected and still she had some unrealistic expectations that came from the original illness that drove her to drink. A mental and emotional one.

Yes he is really sorry, yes he wants to restore his marriage, yes he is seeking out God for forgiveness and the promises God provides for us, but dollars to donuts he still has issues that he can't see yet, and pampering him will keep them hidden, probably leading him back into relapse if he doesn't take care of them now.

Don't fool yourself into believing you have anything to do with his drinking and you can save him from himself. Only truth will do it, and he doesn't know it yet.

If you put this off, and enable him for years as he starts, "acting better and is tolerable", you might be condemning him to death. if whatever drove him to drink is not dealt with and something triggers him when he gets older, he might not have a chance to overcome it.

You need to be strong for him, tough love, be alone, suffer this with support from Alanon, us, friends and family, and us in the loniness you will feel.

To be honest you are being selfish if you let him came back now. Sorry its true, I know it cuz I've lived it myself.

My wife relapsed, she had already forgot what most people know about God, scriptures, forgivness, restoration, grace. She was a pillar in her church, taught many about grace, helped raise some children up to be accountable Knew the application of scripture and attended bible colledge, meditated for hours on the word of God. She could quote Gods answer to many peoples problems at the drop of a hat. She had that gift. But it wasn't enough to keep her away from drinking and the triggers that put her there. Nieither was it enough for her to deal with the issues that troubled her as she still lived in denial she had them. A core fear triggered her and she went back.

Did you know, that when an alcoholic relapes, say ten years from sobriety, it is like they had been drinking all that time?
All the damage they would have done to themselves, physically but especially emotionnally, during that time they were sober is done just like they were drinking all that time.

I will pray you have the strength to trust God for the consequences of you obedience to what he says about your H. He wants to and needs to handle Him. alone. To make him what he planned him to be. That may be a husband to you, it may not, but you too have God for your needs.

I give this verse that God gave to me when my life fell apart as my wife relapsed

From jerimiah 15

"18Why is my pain perpetual, and my wound incurable, which refuseth to be healed? wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar, and as waters that fail?

19Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.

20And I will make thee unto this people a fenced brasen wall: and they shall fight against thee, but they shall not prevail against thee: for I am with thee to save thee and to deliver thee, saith the LORD.

21And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible."


He needs to do this alone, seekout the truth, dig deep and understand his condition and why, not just the triggers but the emotional reactions and conditions why they are there, and learn to hate them. He needs to be set free, you can help do that. The verse is for you too.

going to re post this, because my feelings are still the same with this guy.

Wait a year till you start dating, you will see is true colors, if he is sober for a year then that is a green light, but if he isn't then everything he said to you is just another lye, just another manipulation to get you back.

Again, all who posted, I am hearing you and really do thank you.

I talked with him last night. He wanted to know if we could get together and have a family dinner night once a week now. I said no. I told him that I feel he's assuming he has the "cat in the bag," so to speak, and that he does not. I asked him what he'd do should I never go back with him. I asked if he'd stop being nice to me then, if he doesn't get what he wants. He said he doesn't know, that his heart would be completely broken. He said he knows this is right and that God wants him to repair this. That God wants him to help fix all the things he's done to me. I did ask the hard questions like is it possibly his guilt that is driving this, etc, etc. He just doesn't see. And you're right, he may see these things while in AA and maybe even realize that it is guilt and not even love. Who knows??

The thing is, and I voiced this to him last night, I am happy with where I'm at. I'm happy with the stability I've given my kids. I'm happily not dating anyone anymore. I'm happy in my job and with my friends. And to risk going back to the hell that life was when I was with him is not something I'm willing to do right now. Yah, maybe after a year, if he's still sober and hasn't lost his mind from not getting what he wants so quickly, maybe.

I do hope for it.

But I'm not counting on it. The sad thing is that he really is...and BOY does that bring out the Codependent person in me. It has me feeling like I have to meet his demand to make him feel okay. Sigh. I still have a lot of growing to do as well then.

This whole thing is so hard. But I have learned this summer that I'm not ready to date. That being a mom, friend, and worker is enough. My BIGGEST struggle is to not feel responsible for his feelings.

;-0

It would be extremely unfair to give the kids false hope at this point. If you change your mind and want to date him sooner rather than later, treat him like a new person and date him without involving the kids for awhile. Protect them from getting their hopes up. You might have moved on and may not want to revisit a relationship with your ex at all after a few dates. Things change. You may have outgrown him.

Still: I agree. I've asked him to not even mutter a word of his thoughts to them and that I tell them simply that the way things are as of now is that the three of us live together (me and my two daughters) and their dad and I are not together. And that we have a good life and we're doing well. I ask them if they're happy, they have said they are very happy. I ask if they have questions about me and their dad and they typically do not. He's reported that my older daughter says she wants us all to be together. I don't know if it's a lie or if they just tell him that because they know he's hoping for it???? But I am firm with them and they don't talk too much about that with me.

If I go out with him as in dating, yes, I would have my stepmom or dad come watch the girls and I'd meet him somewhere.

I even question whether I should "hang out" with him and the girls like we did the other night. We are absolutely unromantic at those times, but I do wonder if the kids are confused by it. However, they really don't seem confused around me or distraught or any of that.

I think they're happy with the way things are except I feel when they are staying over there, perhaps they are small and just want me there too. ??? That's normal I think.

Oh well. I don't know but I know I can't give into him now.

P.s. Still: I copied down that verse from Proverbs and stuck it on my wall just now.

Sounds like your doing the right thing here, and stills advice is good.

If you hadn't suffered for so long with someone who has such an alcohol problem advice might be diffent as in the attempts to save the marriage, but you have been divorced for a couple years and have probably learned to live without him. Seems you have control over your co-dependant side.

Don't know if you've read this but it was what caused me to come to MB after my wife passed on. I did a search on google to find out what happened to me, what was wrong with me, why I had fallen into a pit I could not get out of. The search was "Problems from living with an alcoholic spouse". After sifting thru the stuff talking about treatment I came to this stuff from Dr. Harley, and after reading all the stuff on the site, I knew he had a handle on it and what I needed.

I then sorted out what was my responsibity and what was not and the guilt feelings that were plauging me. I wasn't attempting to restore mymarriage, I was tring to restore me. Thats job 1 for any marriage, to keep the oxygen mask on.


As I too thought I should and could be able to help my wife with her drug dependance which started with alcohol for years but then got worse the old truth is they are in love with the drug, or bottle.

My personal belief that they were running from other fears and issues in thier life, and if I could do all the right things with patience mixed with truth and consequences to help them heal was the job of a therapist and God.

As far as my influence it became more muted as she became more secure that I would be around. I became more co-dependant and an enabler, and It was a constant battle even when she was a dry drunk. Truly your spirit can get destroyed by someone you are bonded so closly to as in marriage.

She really had some remarkable human traits. I suppose that blinded me to the truth, but it was still no excuse for either of us. IYKWIM.

Here are some things I found when I did a search for "alcohol" on this site. They may secure your conviction that you are doing the right thing, as well as inspire your hope in future relationships.

1. (96.16%) Alcoholic Spouse #1
2. (92.03%) Abusive Marriage #5
3. (91.16%) Alcoholic Spouse #2
4. (86.58%) Alcoholic Spouse #3
7. (81.64%) Should I Remarry My Ex-Spouse? Letter #1
10. (79.67%) How the Co-dependency Movement Is Ruining Marriages

Sorry you have to go thru this but there is light at the end of the tunnel.