I married my ex within a year of meeting him. I thought he was wonderful, and we shared the same family values and hopes for the future. I was young and optimistic of course, 19 and he was 21.

All the above was still true but I uncovered his avoidance of conflict which made it impossible to talk through issues and he had quite a temper... We could have made it as a married couple with growth and work, but I grew personally and he went to smother woman instead.

So one thing I know is that I want to date longer and make sure I have abetter idea of how he acts under stress. I still find myself wondering if I will see a different side later on. I met a guy in college and we were friends first and he's awesome... Maybe I'm just old and cynical now (32) and wonder where the hidden dark sides are.

This is disjointed and my first post out of SAA... I'm typing on acell phone which makes it harder

Please pardon my direct approach. With four children under the age of 10, you will actually have very little time for dating for quite a while. Relax. Enjoy your blessings. You have a lot to be grateful for.
I am not saying don't date. I am saying dating has a lower priority.

If I were to give you a sign that there's trouble ahead, it might be a man who tries to entice you to spend less time with your children and more time with him. That would be a man with no respect for your 4 little priorities.

Not to mention, being a nursing student is emotionally and intellectually stressful. Keep up the good work. You have wonderful goals. Focus on them for now. The rest will fall into place when the time is right.

I assumed that I would be single for a long time because of the kids. Who wants that much responsibility? I told him up front what being with me would look like and he stepped up and most of the time we are together is with the kids. They are gone two weekends a month and that is when we are alone, well at least when we aren't working.

I feel like my experience in a failed marriage has left me paranoid and I'm searching for things wrong. I think that can be bad and good.

I just want to be wiser this time. Thanks pepperband I've read lots of your posts to me and others and they are always real.

I think we need a red flags thread! I look back on my marriage and shake my head with astonishment at the number of red flags I missed.

Yes seeing how people act under stress is good but the best is just to be observant. People tell you the most about themselves when you first meet them, including the circumstances under which you met.

But you bring up the issue of conflict and I have been reflecting on that. So many people on these forums talk about marriages that broke down because they were the victim of angry outbursts. But how many of us experienced angry outbursts when we were dating? I'm guessing none as that would have been a deal breaker. So the AOs suddenly appeared out of nowhere in the second year of marriage? I don't think so.

If you listen to Dr Harley and Joyce, the thing that shines out is the respect they have for one another. If you can stay respectful, even under stress, then conflict can be resolved no matter how much of an avoider he/she is.

Let's all take ownership of our part in allowing things to go wrong and be better people with better marriages.

We cross posted. Being in nursing school is amazingly hard, but I am half way there and I can't wait to be able to provide more for my kids. I work in a hospital now which will be good experience for the resume too.

I see what you are trying to say, but that isn't really the case with my ex. He wouldn't allow me to talk about things between us that weren't sunshine and roses. I literally was not allowed to talk about it. If I said, but we really need to talk about it, and I pushed too much he would EXPLODE. It doesn't really matter how respectfully you approach it if the person cannot handle it. I definitely grew a lot during my marriage. I came into it an immature teenager and learned how to be emotionally healthy and approach things respectfully.

Relax!
Your paranoia has a time limited purpose.

Think of a little kid who has it been bitten by a big dog. Until that kid grows bigger himself, his wariness serves to protect him. Gradually, those dogs look smaller to him. He will have friendlier dog interactions. His paranoia fades away. As will yours.

I have a saying for what you are doing. Here it is.

You have cheese on your plate. You are thinking about tomorrow's cheese.

Maybe only a mouse brain will understand.

I'm so proud of you for going into nursing!
I went back to school, graduated age 31 with a BSN.
Then, after 2 years, I went back to school again and became an RNP.
Eventually, I became a clinical mentor to student RNPs.
I retired in 2009 after 30 years.

I want to encourage you to continue to reach higher and higher as a nurse.
Nursing will teach you just about everything you need to learn about human nature. Then, you will be confident you can spot warning signs before most non-nursing people.

Dr. Harley says it is important to spend at least 15 hrs/week meeting each other's most important emotional needs. This requires your undivided attention, so your kids can't be with you during that time.

I don't see how you are going to be able to find 15 hrs/week for undivided attention while working, going to school, and raising 4 young kids. (I am a working, single mom, so I know how difficult it is.) Have you considered waiting to date until your kids are older? You will have the rest of your life to find a romantic relationship, and your kids are only young for a short while.

It feels like something worthwhile. "Boyfriend" (you know how weird it is to say that word to me) is also in nursing school and works at a different hospital so we have a lot in common to talk about.

I love your analogies Pep.

Yeah that is not going to happen. I mean I love Dr. Harley but I'm pretty sure ANYONE with 4 kids will agree: Ain't nobody got time fo dat!! Our time together is stuff like cooking dinner while kids run around house after school. I think I am starting to get a grasp on what "emotional needs" are on his plate. I still spend plenty of time with my kids, too, I spend about 2 hours per night on bedtime reading stories and talking to each one sitting on their bed.

One good thing about being divorced, if I have to find a positive, I have free babysitting every other weekend Friday to Sunday. That leaves a lot more time than married persons with kids get to spend alone with their husband/wife.

I guess we'll see what happens.

Big Dog.... yes, that is exactly it.

I like cheese, and if I am going to have it I want a lifetime supply. :P

But I'm betting that behaviour didn't happen when you were dating did it? He exploded because he did not now how to negotiate and when you pushed him, he felt unsafe.

The three styles of getting your way are childish (temper), adolescent (sulking) and adult (negotiating). Very few people learn how to negotiate as adults.

I don't even remember back that far. We literally went from meeting to married in 10 months so there wasn't much time for there to even BE conflict that needs to be negotiated. I want to make sure not to do that again!

Yes, I think we were the same. Thank heavens for MB eh?

I had a little lightbulb.....

You wrote this


You are asking what signs you look for in men you date. And, that's an OK question.

I suddenly flashed that there is a much more vital warning sign for you to pay attention to.
Warning signs that YOU are not thinking clearly and objectively about any given relationship.
"Such as what Pep?"
Daydreaming about the perfect future. (tomorrow's cheese) And not paying attention to today's cheese. (real facts)
Making excuses for a date's errent behavior.
"He's just stressed out. That's all."
You become 'The Giver' in order to make a man happy with you. <~~~ May be the most important!
You begin to compromise and sacrifice instead of negotiate honestly.
You focus on making deposits to his Love Bank, while ignoring withdrawals from your Love Bank.

Look for warning signs within !!!! Those internal warnings are far more dangerous because those are the signs we tend to push away from consciousness.

Also, if you are ever indulging in the fantasy that things will "be better" if you marry..... that's a big

Avoid granting 'second chances' while dating.

I'll probably think of more later. You've been warned!

Have you had a chance to listen to the radio show where Dr Harley discusses his advice to single mothers regarding dating?

It is controversial and you may not like it, but I think it is worth a listen, especially given that you have four children and how little they all are...

I'm not 100% sure of the clip Susie is talking about. SQ do you know when it was?

Here is a clip.
Radio Clip of Raising Chldren outside of Marriage

WOW that's a big & clear warningsign.

Sorry, actually meant to come back and post it but had some trouble finding it.

Here it is: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3393#

Several years after my divorce, I met the man who is now my fiance. We don't live together, and we have 5 kids between us. Since almost all of the kids are in high school, we decided to delay our marriage until they are out of the house. In your case, it will be 15 years until your kids are out of the house. Correct? I understand you may not want to wait until then to get remarried, but are you already looking at your boyfriend as a potential husband?

It is worth noting that remarriages with children have an 85% failure rate.
If possible it is recommended not to remarry with minor children

Jedi: That's one of the reasons my fiance and I decided not to get married until the kids are out of high school.

Mehr: Does your boyfriend have kids?

Do you happen to know where that statistic comes from?

In Dr. Harley's practice his number is 85% of blended families end in divorce.

The US Bureau of Statistics has 67% of second marriages end (with/without children) ... so it only makes sense blended families are much higher.

So of the blended families who seek help from Dr. Harley 85% of those marriages do not survive?

The statistic I saw that referenced the US Bureau of Census said that 66% of second marriages with children break up. Maybe the higher percentage that we often see quoted on this site is because it is one of the families in trouble since they are going to a psychologist for help.

66% is not much higher than first marriages. It is just so terrible though that so many marriages break up. I am sure the second marriages that are familiar with and use MB principles have a much better chance of success.

He said in his famous "affairage" post that he read it in a report. Here:

Dr Harley's Post - CLICK HERE

Excerpt:

-------

But there is one other issue that is terribly relevant to your situation: Blended families. I read a research report recently that claimed that only 15% of all marriages with children from another relationship survive for 25 years (on average about 50% of all marriages survive for 25 years). Again, from my perspective, the culprit is failure to follow the POJA. Instead of making joint decisions regarding the children, unilateral decisions are made. This ultimately leads to fights and constant turmoil. After the children are grown, however, the conflict does not end. In many cases, advantages continue to be given to children by the natural parent at the expense of the step-parent.
.

------- [/quote]

[/quote]

Thank you. I'd had never read that....it was very interesting. So basically blended families absolute MUST follow POJA. I hope more blended families will find a way to make it work. I hate seeing second marriages end....my sister recently divorced her second husband...she had two kids with her first husband and 2 with the second...and now she is married to a third. So confusing for those kids. The oldest two were raised by the second husband since they were babies! And now he is just their former step dad. Sad.

In my opinion this shouldn't limit parents with young children to a life of celibacy and relationship-less-ness but rather encourage us to be more mindful of MB principles such as POJA and be incredibly selective of our partner. Again, it's my opinion but I think there's benefit after a horrendous divorce for whatever reason to demonstrate to your children what a loving, healthy MB relationship looks like. That's something I strive for.

The flip side that everyone wants to avoid is the revolving door of bad relationships. I think that any single parent here on this board wants to avoid that example. Now if you're avoiding relationships and re-marriage out of preference or for religious reasons, great! But to say that everyone should stay away from dating and re-marriage because blended families are statistically destined for failure is a pretty simplistic interpretation of what Dr. Harley has said. National statistics are indicators of the general population and therefore not necessarily indicitive of the results of our highly MB educated members who go forth into the dating world armed with Dr. Harley's principles.

Travis

I agree. My mother stayed single (she didn't even date) for 28 years because she feared she would pick another bad husband. Although we, she, my brother and I, benefited in some ways from her staying single we did lose out on a positive influcence of a male in the home. I think my brother and I both suffered as a result.

These are probably the most insightful quotes I have read on the board here.
I was so busy watching for red flags in women while dating 4 years ago, I completely ignored my own innervoice.

My ex was a 'sulker' while I was waiting for her to grow up and develop a negotiating style...
To no avail...

People balk when they hear you should wait until your kids are older. I know I did. My son was 3 (almost 4) when I divorced and I felt like waiting until he was older would take too long. By then I�d be too old to find love. Not true. You are never too old to find love. Unfortunately, I found that my initial attempts at dating really hurt my son in that he needed me to be more in tune with him and less distracted thinking about (and dating) men. I had 100% custody, so there weren�t any open weekends to build time.

I stopped dating for a little bit and made a conscious choice to focus on my son and it paid dividends with his behavior and emotional health.

And now, a couple years later, it�s easier to date without impacting him because he is involved in sports and friends and other activities that allowed me to get to know guys without impacting him so much. With 4 kids, this has gotta be harder. But if you don�t have enough time to do things with your new man WITHOUT the kids, I think you should hear the advice that�s given here and consider waiting at LEAST until after nursing school when you can really spend some alone time every day (or every couple of days).

Even if your 4 kids don�t have any issues like my son did, your question was about red flags and it�s hard to observe red flags if your alone time with your boyfriend is only every other weekend.

Just getting to know him on the weekends or while you�re running around also doing things for the kids isn�t a true indicator of who he really is. Most people can hide unsavory parts of their personality for a day or two. It�s the daily interaction over time that will tell you whether there are issues. The 15 hours a day is what MB recommends for a healthy couple sounds like too much time but you know what I discovered? My boyfriend and I spent that time naturally as we were dating. And now that I�m away on military travel, we talk for about 1.5-2 hours every night before bed. That�s almost 15 (not quite) hours right there.

The posted radio clips were very interesting to hear...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2377#
Having children in marriage vs having children in a living together situation�9 times more likely for kids to have a life of crime if they don�t have both parents. Discussion of women having kids on their own bc they wanna have a baby but there�s no hope of marriage looming on the horizon.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3393#
Recommend single moms not remarry until children are older. Why do women with children have trouble finding husbands? The really good husbands don�t want to rear someone else�s children. {{DTC: Wow. That�s tough to absorb}} You don�t have to find someone, you really don�t. You can make your life more complicated than it really is by bringing a man into your life that creates more problems.