There are two people who are so passionate about their faith and it is so opposite. How does a couple make it work when they both believe their destiny is so tied to their faith? I'm a Christian. My husband is Jewish and he's demanded our family live a Torah observant lifestyle. I've tried to please and complied for many years. Did my best and even converted. Now that I'm older and have a voice, I told him I can't do it his way only, anymore. He is set on convincing me with the Bible and wants to get my beliefs lined up with his so we can "fulfill our calling". This has gone on for many years and has reached a warning level. Any ideas? And Yes, I have read the Faith Conflicts Articles by Dr. H.

Have you tried the suggestions Dr. Harley gives? Can you both abide by the POJA - refrain from religious practices that would be offensive to the other?

What is your husband's plan if he can't convince you?

I don't know if I can. I'm in the withdrawal stage. He's an attorney deluxe and he wins!

Has your husband read the articles, and how does he feel about the plan in them?

Specifically, this would be the main article for your situation:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5040a_qa.html

I think you guys can make this work if you agree not to demand religious participation from the other. But if he or you is going to demand it regardless, then your marriage has a very serious problem.

If he can't convince me, not sure what his plan will be.

How many years have you been married? Any kids?

He's not read the articles. He's neglected/mistreated me for 15 years and this last year, things he said to me put it over the top and I suggested a separation. He cried for several months everyday. I became robotic and emotionless. He changed some things (controlling anger, not ignoring me,considering me etc.) but the bottom line for me is that I feel like I live with the Jewish police. I can't take it. But yet he thinks our beliefs are so important because of the calling God has for us in the future and we must do it his way. I don't know if I can do the steps because my heart is so hurt(I'm in counseling for this). I'm trying but don't have any more feeling or attraction to him because I basically have 15 years of memories of it being terrible. I'm trying to forget the past but the bottom line issues of religion are still not fixed.

I think the basic problem is this: "He's neglected/mistreated me for 15 years." If this problem was solved, the two of you could learn to live with religious differences.

Your husband is being disrespectful about religion when he uses phrases like "our calling" which suggest that his viewpoint on the subject is the correct one. I suspect he's probably disrespectful and controlling about a host of other things as well, given that you mention he has had to learn to control his anger.

Dr. Harley classifies the three behaviors of Demands, Disrespect, and Angry Outburst as abuse and control. Learning to live without these behaviors is difficult for a lot of us (we can't imagine how to get what we want and need in life and marriage without them), but it is absolutely necessary that they be eliminated in order to have a happy marriage. Dr. Harley's book Love Busters covers these in detail. I encourage you to take a look at that book and also at his articles on this site about abuse and control.

As far as neglect, Dr. Harley's program prescribes that couples spend fifteen hours a week together giving each other their undivided attention and meeting each other's intimate emotional needs (such as conversation and affection). If your husband could eliminate his abusive and controlling behaviors, and the two of you could start spending this time together in this way each week, your marital happiness could be restored - even enough to compensate for your unhappy memories of the past.

Your best bet is to sell your husband on using this program, Marriage Builders (the material on this website and in the books). If he is unwilling to do that, there is probably not a lot of hope for resolving this issue or for your marriage.

What you need is more than a solution to this religious conflict - you need your husband to take a whole new approach to marriage. Under that new approach, your husband would not be demanding, disrespectful, or angry toward you in his efforts to get you to adopt his religious beliefs and practices. If you were unwilling to follow his religion, he would not pressure you, but would still concentrate on the two of you building the happiest life possible together: that would mean spending time together meeting each other's emotional needs, and finding activities and goals in life that you do share and can focus on together. He and you can still have a happy marriage even if you do not choose to follow Judaism. But he will have to drop the pressure tactics of demands, disrespect, and anger.

Dr. Harley usually recommends that couples practice negotiating on easier, non-emotional issues first, before tackling more complex and emotional subjects of disagreement like religion.

I know he's trying. After I asked for the separation, he started controlling the anger and doing things for me and being very affectionate. He said I need a separation from his old self not the new man he is becoming. I asked he give me time to heal from the hurt but instead he demands affection and says he's giving and giving (for 3 months now) and that it's not right that I'm not returning that love automatically like the Bible says. I try to explain that I don't feel safe or trust him to open up and be affectionate at this point yet. Then he'll say the bible says to love no matter what. !! It's like I can't win. I cry almost everyday b/c I don't know what to do. And I do love him and forgive him but I don't enjoy being around him. He's very controlling. How else do I explain I cannot reciprocate the affection at this point in time because I'm still healing from the mistreatment and still so bothered by the religiosity?

If your husband wants you to be in love with him, he needs to try an entirely different approach. Demanding love from you will not make you magically fall in love with him. Wll he come here and speak to us?

We can show you both how to fall in love in an effective, strategic manner. As it is, your husband is playing pool with a blindfold on and is frustrated at his lack of results. We can show him how to get those results. Work smart, instead of hard.

Your starting place should be the book Lvebusters, the Marital Problem Analysis worksheet and the Lovebuster questionnaire. You can download those worksheets free from this website.

That is an interesting idea, but I don't think the Bible actually says that, in either the Jewish or Christian versions.

I would suggest making a deal with him that if he follows this program and eliminates his love busters and meets your emotional needs, that you will also meet his emotional needs. You can work the program together - along the way if there's any love busters he sees on your part, you will agree to end them, provided he does as well.

For many marriages, Dr. Harley has basically told men that they have a choice: they can fight (demand, disrespect, and anger), or they can have sex. I know which one I would choose!

The way your husband is using the Bible in his conversations with you is terribly disrespectful toward you. He needs to not talk to you as if he is the Bible expert and you need to be lectured about doing what the Bible says. Neither one of you is God, neither one of you is infallible in Bible interpretation, both of you are capable of reading and understanding the Bible for yourselves.

Dr. Harley is a Bible believer and he does not advocate forgiveness for this kind of thing. Instead he advocates just compensation - making it up to you by ending the abuse and building a new happy life together.

Let your husband know that you will be happy to learn to meet his emotional needs if he will follow this program to eliminate his abusive controlling behavior. That is a great deal for him! He'll get a happy marriage and will receive the love he needs!

The religiosity needs to be expressed in ways that are not disrespectful to you. He should not try to impose a calling on you or use language that suggests that he is the teacher and you are the learner. That kind of disrespect will kill any marriage - and will kill any man or woman's interest in loving, affectionate behavior.

OK. Will look at those things. Thank you for your time.

You can tell him also that the concept of unconditional love is NOT in the Bible. That approach to marriage leads to neglect and abuse and will not EVER get him what he really wants: a wife who is romantically in love with him. If he wants that he needs to try a different approach.

Welcome to mb. There is no excuse for abuse. It must be addressed. Anger is a choice. Its an emotional reaction that we can learn to control.

If your husband would throw bible verses at you there is just as many to throw back at him. Now that's not the right approach because its obviously not working with either of you. ***EDIT*** He begins this process by controlling his anger. If he can't get a grip on his anxiety/anger 100% then he becomes unsafe for you .. Which it seems your experiencing.

Its hard to fill a lovebank when its full of holes and constantly draining. Plug the holes first and then your efforts to fill lovebanks become easier and less draining.

MNG

Quoted for truth!

There is always conditions for love... I think I heard Dr.harley relay this message a few weeks ago on the radio. Explained it with undeniable truth.

Yes, I said all that to him but he's under the impression that he gets to decide our families faith and how we will worship because of Genesis 3:16...which basically says that a woman's desire shall be for her husband and he shall rule over her. I told him his interpretation is wrong and he is being very disrespectful to me for using that to control me. Then he said, "God said it. Not me." Ouch! I told him I didn't think this was going to work out because I want a partnership not a dictatorship. Then he gets scared and starts acting all nice and saying he's working on changing. ??? I know MB says to stop focusing on religion and work on us but religion is at the crux of our relationship. We are both very passionate about our beliefs so how do we throw that out the window and just focus on our relationship?

The crux of your relationship is that your husband is an [censored], and he uses scripture to justify it.


"I didn't make the rules, God did!"


Nowhere in any holy book does it say =; "Thou shalt be a jerk to thine wife."

I would respond calmly that you simply aren't going to do that.


Explain to him that you need him to stop all demands, disrespect, and anger. Show him the first five chapters of love busters and ask if he would be willing to follow the procedure Dr. Harley describes at the end of those chapters, where you give him a worksheet each week letting him know when he has been demanding or disrespectful. Like the above lectures from Scripture - those are disrespectful, and you would list those on the worksheet, and he would need to agree to stop talking to you like that.

If he is not willing to stop saying those things, then this is not going to work.


You have to work on it by first getting rid of the demands and disrespect. That will pave the way for being able to talk about it respectfully.

Have you thought about emailing the Harleys?


Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

Agree.

Attempting to control your beliefs is pretty much like attempting to control you for anything else. It is abuse.

Hi I am new here and still learning. **edit**
I'm sorry for you pain and pray you and your husband can find a solution.

Yes I understand you are both passionate about your beliefs.
Dr Harley frequently uses the example of a man looking at the ocean, as his wife stands back to back looking at the mountains.
The man says, The world is all water.
The woman says, No. It is all mountains.

Dr Harleys approach to resolving conflict is for each person to acknowledge that their spouse has a worthy perspective.
Using the Policy of Joint Agreement, each person has an individual right on what religion to believe in. However, how the family worships is subject to the POJA.

Are you both willing to negotiate and come to enthusiastic agreement?
Are you both willing to follow the POJA?

If either of you refuse to follow the POJA then you don't have a "buyers" relationship

Thank you for all of your recommendations. So it's been some months and I basically have decided it's a lost cause. I have set up boundaries i.e. emotionally separated since I cannot do a physical separation(have been worn out/sick and take care of kids on my own-so haven't been able to work). We are just roommates. What did it for me was the last time he told me I was rebellious and where I attend worship is blasphemous. In the midst of the bad marriage, I haven't had all the energy I need to find work. I am actively looking for work to be able to support myself. I haven't wanted to divorce without having an income first because I don't know what he will do when it happens. When I told him I wanted to separate, he made threats that scared me (not for me but for him). I know this is classic manipulation and I will not tolerate it. My question is how can I get out of this situation with someone so difficult and without breaking his heart? He's my children's father and I genuinely love him and care for him but he's impossible to live with. Even if we were to work the MB concepts, I guarantee you the bottom line according to him is, I don't submit to him and I'm not following his beliefs. So it's a lost cause! My goal is to become financially independent and get a support group for me. I'm not good at this nor do I know how to divorce. Never planned on this, and don't want to hurt my kids. I'm scared.

Did you ever do this?

Yes, I did.

What did Dr. Harley say? Did he read your question on the show?

If he is threathening suicide, that most certailnly IS manipulative. AND it is also ridiculous that a man who is so graetly convinced that his faith is best could so totally go against what this very religion stands for.

That is, assuming that I have gotten the right impression. Apart from that, it would be helpful if you could be more specific if you say that he makes threats that scare you for HIM.

To declare yourself separated is not being separated. The two of you should make a real effort to find some middle ground here. You knew beforehand that you were of different faith and should do everything you can to come together for your children. That means at least to consult directly with Dr. Harley, for example.

Your husband should realize, that if the two of you divorce, he will have even less say in the religious upbringing of the children.

I wish you wisdom, but do somethin constructive, please.

Genesis 3:16...basically says that a woman's desire shall be for her husband and he shall rule over her...

I hope he realises that this very bibleverse is a curse, because of the sin commited by Adam and Eve.

I totally agree with you that you should separate if he keeps being abusive.

Godloves, according to Dr. Harley, an "emotional separation" simply does not work. If you are trying to do this without breaking his heart, then this approach is destined to failure. Being "just roommates" is going to get worse, and worse, and worse, so you need to make a plan to become financially independent and execute it. Do you have a lawyer? Your husband is probably responsible for providing you some support until you can get on your feet. You need to get a lawyer in order to make that possible.


This is good - you have to have a plan. If the bad marriage has made it hard for you to stay motivated to find work, you should consider seeing your doctor about getting on antidepressants for the short term. ADs can help you stay even emotionally so that you can stay motivated and get this done.


Dr. Harley does not advise telling your husband you plan to separate. That will weaken the impact. Just make your plans and then separate.


This is why you need to not plan on "emotional separation" - you need to get into a true dark Plan B, where you are not saying anything to him, and he cannot possibly say anything to you (because you have blocked all contact). He is still liable to support you during this time, which is why you need a lawyer.


Well, him saying that you need to submit to him is the exact opposite of working the MB concepts.


The good news is, according to Dr. Harley, most women actually do quite well once they get out on their own and get their abusive husbands out of their lives. It's men who can't live without their wives, not the other way around.

Please answer BrainHurts' question - when was your question read on the show, if you sent one in?

This is exactly correct!


This is more problematic - if the two of them could make a joint effort, then none of this would be a problem. Unfortunately her husband isn't willing to make a joint effort at all; he insists that it is his way or else. There is no hope as long as he continues to issue such demands. So telling godloves what they "should" do is kind of a moot point - she needs to know at this point what Dr. Harley advises for wives whose husbands will not negotiate.