I love my husband, but all passion and play have gone from our relationship. I've read the site and started trying to implement, but it is very hard. I just don't feel like it. I've scheduled time for this week, but will that really bring back passion? We do not fight. We get along well, but much more like friends. I honestly don't feel like I am in love with him anymore.
I love my husband, but all passion and play have gone from our relationship. I've read the site and started trying to implement, but it is very hard. I just don't feel like it. I've scheduled time for this week, but will that really bring back passion? We do not fight. We get along well, but much more like friends. I honestly don't feel like I am in love with him anymore.
Hello momma, it sounds like you have fallen out of love. But that can be turned around with undivided attention time. It take 20-25 hours per week of UA time to fall in love again. Dr Harley recommends 4-4 hour dates meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. At first you won't feel like doing it, but after a few weeks you won't want to miss it because your feelings will be triggered.
What are the biggest problems in your marriage? How long married? Any children? Do you or your H ever travel without the other?
No nights apart. We have been married for nearly 30 years. 2 grown children and 1 at home. We go on weekly dates. We had a long weekend together in January and have another one planned for May. We take walks together several times a week. We rarely argue. He is very sweet. Our sex life is almost non-existent...Even on trips. I want to be looked at as more than a best friend. I want to be desired, swept off my feet. We have a day planned to go to the big city on Thursday. It is 2 hours away. I'm sure we will walk Tuesday and Wednesday. Do I need to plan something else. We have company until Tuesday .
No nights apart. We have been married for nearly 30 years. 2 grown children and 1 at home. We go on weekly dates. We had a long weekend together in January and have another one planned for May. We take walks together several times a week.
It takes 20-25 hours of UA meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs to create romantic love.
Do you feel like you love him but are not in love? How long have you felt this way? YEARS?
Also, do you have close friends you can share this with? CAn you describe your friendships?
I have felt this way for awhile. As far as friends, I don't have many. ... Certainly none I could talk to about this. I have two ladies I'm pretty good friends with, but we don't talk about our marriages. I have tons of acquaintances though. But MH husband is probably who I pour my heart out to most.
Wow. That is a meaty thread. It will take me awhile to read it all and listen to the clips since we have company. He does help me with dishes...Did tonight as a matter of fact. Sounds like our date Thursday will count except for the sex part. I'll try but he will probably be too tired.
I've made it through some of the clips.. There is so much stuff. Here is what I have so far along with our plan for UA time this week:
Summary of Undivided attention:
Meet the 4 needs on the date: Intimate conversation, affection, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment
1. Intimacy clip:
Dr. Harley says sex is one of the easiest problems to solve�. REALLY???????????? Not for us� We have no problem getting along. Sexual problems characteristics of men and those of women. I disagree,We don't fit this.
Read: How can a husband get the sex he wants..
2. Good show on UA
Clip 1:
Have to have attention on each other, alone, talking about favorite topics of conversation, something fun, love making
Was it Dr. Harley�s best part of the week because he was an extrovert?? He enjoys going out? What if your husband is more of an introvert and homebody? Dr. Harley NEEDED something at the end of the day to keep him going.. That sounds more like me than my husband. What if a husband just needs to relax because his job is stressful?
Clip 2
What about 2 hours 7 days a week? Hard to squeeze all 4 in 2 hours. You can mix and match throughout the week. It doesn�t have to be 4 4 hour blocks. So 4 or 5 hours on Saturday/Sunday and a couple of 2 hour blocks during the week would work..
Make sure you schedule. Make regular times. Make sure it is out of the house: too many things distract you.
Do the same things you did when you were dating: Ok, we spent a lot of time with his folks/family. We went out to eat. We took picnics at the lake. We went to sorority functions with a big group. We would go to the movies. We would go to state parks.
That is pretty much what we do on our date nights each week.
.
Clip 3
This caller doesn�t apply. My husband isn�t negative. Give feedback if the conversation is boring� MMM.. not interested in that topic. Isn�t that rude?? To me, that would seem to shut down the conversation. They talk about that a little bit. Neither of us like conflict, so we wouldn�t get verbally upset, we would just be quiet instead.
Be actively involved in the conversation. Be interested: We need to definitely work on this.. Dr. Harley says this should be easy� My favorite topic of conversation are my students at school. His favorite conversations are his gun collection. I don�t think neither of us are interested in the other person�s. I mean we are polite. I ask him questions and try to act interested, but I could really care less about guns. So we need to find different things to talk about I guess.
3. Harleys discuss what to do during the 15 hours
Don�t use this time to bring up problems. It is what you do together that meets the emotional needs. Just being together doesn�t count. Use the time to meet the emotional needs.
4. Radio Clip on UA
Clip 1: Seems like there is a difference between caring love and being in love. Yeah, I get that. We have a ton of caring love and no passion� ): Don�t make withdrawals. Make decisions together� We have no problem with that. Yeah we still are not in love. So it seems the piece we are missing is making the love bank deposits.
2: Obstacles: Dr. Harley reacts to common obstacles: not enough time. He tells about their experience and how they did it. Stress reducers for them was spending time together. Budget your time. 168 hours a week. You should be able to have 15 hours out of that.
3. Obstacles: Financial objections. That is not a problem here.
So my takeways:
This week:
Tuesday: Go to a local park and take a walk. Go to the yogurt place downtown. I would love to make love, but just depends on if he is up for it. ( 2 hours at least)
Wednesday: A walk on our place. We have 75 acres. ( 45 minutes)
Thursday: We will drive 2 � hours together to the big city. I�m sure we will go out to eat. Early in the afternoon, he has a doctor appointment. I�m not sure what we will do in the morning and/or afterwards.. Maybe we will go to a downtown museum. We both like that kind of stuff. Then we will drive 2 � hours home. Once again, I would love to make love, but he may not feel like it. ( This will be a lot of time.. 10 or more)
Friday:
I�m sure we will go see Beauty and the Beast, but I�m seeing that probably doesn�t count. Maybe we could go to coffee afterwards and discuss it???
Saturday
Take a walk on our place. ( 45 minutes)
How does this look??? I will continue to listen to the rest of the clips as I am able.
I've made it through some of the clips.. There is so much stuff. Here is what I have so far along with our plan for UA time this week:
Summary of Undivided attention:
Meet the 4 needs on the date: Intimate conversation, affection, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment
1. Intimacy clip:
Dr. Harley says sex is one of the easiest problems to solve�. REALLY???????????? Not for us� We have no problem getting along. Sexual problems characteristics of men and those of women. I disagree,We don't fit this.
Nope, you misunderstood him. He said first fix the marriage problems and the sex problem fixes itself. Women have no desire to have sex with men they are not in love with. Fix that first.
"First I fix the relationship, and nine times out of ten, sexual problems disappear, with or without unresolved childhood experiences. I spend very little time fixing sexual problems these days because most couples I counsel don't have sexual problems after they have learned to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement. "
here2. Good show on UA
Clip 1:
Have to have attention on each other, alone, talking about favorite topics of conversation, something fun, love making
Was it Dr. Harley�s best part of the week because he was an extrovert?? He enjoys going out? What if your husband is more of an introvert and homebody? Dr. Harley NEEDED something at the end of the day to keep him going.. That sounds more like me than my husband. What if a husband just needs to relax because his job is stressful?
Dates are the most relaxing thing to do. My H and I have very stressful jobs and he is an INTROVERT [not sure what that has to do with anything though] but our most relaxing times are our dates.
What about 2 hours 7 days a week? Hard to squeeze all 4 in 2 hours. You can mix and match throughout the week. It doesn�t have to be 4 4 hour blocks. So 4 or 5 hours on Saturday/Sunday and a couple of 2 hour blocks during the week would work..
Make it in 3-4 hour blocks. 4 hour blocks are the most effective.
As I have observed the quality and quantity of undivided attention given in romantic relationships, I find that while some time is given almost daily, significant "dates" are scheduled several times a week. These dates usually take about three or four hours, the time that it would take to meet all four of the intimate emotional needs to the satisfaction of both spouses. So while some form of emotional connection should be made throughout the week, if the four intimate emotional needs are to be met effectively, a four-hour date is usually required.
Make sure you schedule. Make regular times. Make sure it is out of the house: too many things distract you.
Do the same things you did when you were dating: Ok, we spent a lot of time with his folks/family. We went out to eat. We took picnics at the lake. We went to sorority functions with a big group. We would go to the movies. We would go to state parks.
That is pretty much what we do on our date nights each week.
Eliminate any time that is spent with family and friends because it is not UA time.
Yeah we still are not in love. So it seems the piece we are missing is making the love bank deposits.
Agree! So I would redo this and get longer dates in place. The goal should be FOUR HOURS. The LEAST should be three.
No you got a few things wrong. I ache to make love to him. He turns me down. I get tired of being the initiator.
The family and friends thing is when we were dating. We never do that now...Only us. Family is far away and we don't really have friends we go out with. Our time is just ours.
Does Thurs not count? I will move some of the others to 4 hour blocks, but what do you do?? Dinner or walking or whatever only takes so long... There is enough silence as it is. My trying to keep the conversation lively and happy sounds exhausting..
So. I will move some around to get 4 hour blocks. Thanks so much Melody. I really appreciate your help. Praying this works
2. Good show on UA
Clip 1:
Have to have attention on each other, alone, talking about favorite topics of conversation, something fun, love making
Was it Dr. Harley�s best part of the week because he was an extrovert?? He enjoys going out? What if your husband is more of an introvert and homebody? Dr. Harley NEEDED something at the end of the day to keep him going.. That sounds more like me than my husband. What if a husband just needs to relax because his job is stressful?
I am an introvert, and my dates with my husband are the best part of my week. Being an introvert does not mean you cannot enjoy dating your spouse. We "escape together."
Whew.. company is finally gone.. It is just hard to watch my son with his new fiance...so in love, so gaga.....so clueless. They have no idea what is ahead of them. They are so hopeful.. Death of a child, cancer diagnosis, helping parents as they are dying, going through estates and belongings... Yes, it is so fun now, but life will overtake you!!! My husband and I still love each other/care for each other and we have a strong bond. But too many times life just plain isn't fun.
Anyway, hubby is going to do some work today. We will probably just do our walk today. However, no one answered my question.
If tomorrow for Wednesday, we go to a local park and hike for maybe an hour... we could go to the yogurt shop...20 minutes to town, eating yogurt-30 minutes-20 minutes back. See I'm still only coming up with a little over 2 hours.. What else could we do???? I have the 4 hour block reserved, but I don't have a clue what to do.
I will also try to listen to more of the clips. Thanks everybody.
What other activities do you and your Husband like to do together? Go out to dinner? A museum? Long drives together?
Maybe after a hike like a back rub or leg rub some physical touch would be good? Maybe somewhere to go to listen to music together?
This is something you can spend some time brainstorming with your husband. It all depends on your interests, what is available in your area, financial considerations, etc.
My husband and I go out for dinner a lot, and a lot of times will precede or follow that with shopping, hiking, shooting, or a host of other activities that we enjoy. We try to do something active since we started going out to eat so much
We are rural. So, you are supposed to go out to eat ( 45 minutes), hiking ( 45 minutes) then also something else? That seems crazy instead of relaxing. But let us just say we drive around and go explore a small town ( though most of them would be closed down by the time we got there...maybe not) or after dinner we got out the telescope and looked for stars?
You have to do this 4 times a week? All of those different activities all the time to make 4 hours?
We do a lot of stuff together. Today we went to the accountant, then discussed a ton of stuff about our kids and inheritance and redoing our will on the drive out to look at all terrain vehicles. We visited on our drive to the grocery store where we got some items. All together we were gone about 4 hours. Now obviously the 1 hour with the accountant wouldn't count. But if the rest of it doesn't count either, then we ALSO need to do ANOTHER 4 hours together going out to eat, hiking ( though we will go walking this afternoon anyway), etc. That sure seems like a lot of togetherness.
It's not about togetherness. It's about quality time together without others around meeting each other's most important emotional needs.
It's not about togetherness. It's about quality time together without others around meeting each other's most important emotional needs.
Ok, so that means it needs to be meeting affection, sex, intimate conversation, and recreational companionship.
I'm trying to figure out how the dates need to be different or exactly what all that means.
Affection: we tell each other we love each other all the time, several times a day. To be honest, it is more of a habit for me than actually meaning it. It is what we do. We hold hands on our walks or when we are out.
Recreational companionship: Ok, we do a ton of things together. We both enjoy them just fine. We like camping, hiking, visiting new places, going out to eat, frisbee golf, putt putt golf, fishing, etc. None of them are particularly exciting, but they are enjoyable. Otherwise, I wouldn't do them.
Intimate conversation: Ok, exactly what and how does this work. Would talking about the fears of our oldest? His mental health? This is probably our weakest area if you mean fun conversations. We talk about tons of things we do together: charity work, schedules, etc. But there is also a lot of silence and many times the conversation is boring ( at least for me) I'm not sure how to fix this.
Sex- Ok, this one is just pretty much non-existant. But if he is too tired or doesn't feel great, etc. ( He is dealing with a chronic health issue and is working half time on partial disability.), then I don't see how this area can be forced. Yes we are trying to address this. He is now seeing specialists as the regular docs have done all they can.
Have you reread the "conversation is boring " article lately? I'd love to hear what you think.
Do you use POJA at all? In your posts you always talk about what you want and we've mentioned many times to brainstorm with your Husband and you don't acknowledge that suggestion,
Do you discuss this lack of sex with your Husband? You can do all the dates, but they need to meet the 4 intimate needs. But you already know this, don't you?
That sure seems like a lot of togetherness.
Yeah? Your point being ...?
Have you reread the "conversation is boring " article lately? I'd love to hear what you think.
Thoughts on Conversation is Boring
I can relate to the everything you do or say feels the same, but not the defensiveness part. I guess I disagree with Dr. Harley in the fact that my husband is pretty straightforward and I feel like I know about him. We have always thought alike. We picked out the same china when we were married. We have the exact same mindset about giving and I cannot tell you how many times we will say, "Yep, that is the exact number I was thinking." I know what gets on his nerves. I know what he loves. I'm not sure he knows the same thing about me. I'm a little more closed about myself.
You need to find yourself interested in each other's favorite subjects. For him that would be guns, investing, fixing an appliance, etc Yawn. For me that would be my students ( yawn for him), stuff going on at school ( Yawn), the coolest way I found to teach a topic... I guess we just need to POJA other topics. I'm not quite sure how you do this in a way that doesn't hurt the other person's feelings. Hey sweetie, I'm so bored right now. Let's figue out something to talk about that I like... YUCK. He doesn't have the same need for stimulating convesation. He has told me many times hwo glad he is that he can talk to me about anything and how well I listen... So any tips on exactly how the conversation should go would be appreciated.
Balancing. We do pretty well. Occasionally he'll talk more if something is going on at work or I will talk more. But overall, it is pretty balanced.
Undivided attention. We do fine with this when we talk. We don't really watch television. That said, I can tell his mind is starting to wonder if I am prattling on about kids at school, so I just shut up and try to ask him a question instead. But my school stuff is what really excites me. I am having to juggle so many things and learning so many things. It is invigorating. After having stayed home for 20 years, it is great to get my brain going again. It is only part time, but it sure has been nice.
Enemies
Using conversation to force your way of thinking. Not done.
Dwelling on mistakes past or present. Neither of us criticize each other. In fact, he has gotten so good at saying thank you for little things I do.
Using conversation to punish each other- Oh my goodness. Never. We go out of our way to not hurt each other and each apologize if we get remotely snippy or something.
Do you use POJA at all? In your posts you always talk about what you want and we've mentioned many times to brainstorm with your Husband and you don't acknowledge that suggestion,
Do you discuss this lack of sex with your Husband? You can do all the dates, but they need to meet the 4 intimate needs. But you already know this, don't you?
I've asked him about the dates. He told me whatever I wanted to do would be fine. I told him I wanted him to enjoy it as well. He told me he would enjoy just sitting at home with me and he didn't really care. He knew that going out was important to me, so he would do whatever I would like.
As far as sex, I don't have a clue how to discuss this without hurting his feelings. He already struggles with having to only work half time and feeling like less of a man. I don't want to make it worse.
Have you tried saying "I'd love it if you..." or "I love it when you..." that has been helping me a lot because I have a hard time asking for things when I'm tired or overwhelmed.
Have you tried saying "I'd love it if you..." or "I love it when you..." that has been helping me a lot because I have a hard time asking for things when I'm tired or overwhelmed.
Great idea. I love that. I will use that.
You need to find yourself interested in each other's favorite subjects. For him that would be guns, investing, fixing an appliance, etc Yawn. For me that would be my students ( yawn for him), stuff going on at school ( Yawn), the coolest way I found to teach a topic... I guess we just need to POJA other topics.
Yup you need to find other topics. Just bring up subjects until he lights up. For example, we spent many happy evenings last winter discussing where we would go on holiday. I got some books and read them. Then I would tell him about my findings and he would give me feedback on what would and what would not work for him.
Same thing with the dates. Keep trying different things.
The goal in both cases is to find things that engage both of you. The beauty of this approach is that it will take both of you into new areas. Right now we are attending a seminar on Wordsworth. Not something I would have even thought of suggesting!
That sure seems like a lot of togetherness.
Yeah? Your point being ...?
Could you please answer this?
Have you tried saying "I'd love it if you..." or "I love it when you..." that has been helping me a lot because I have a hard time asking for things when I'm tired or overwhelmed.
Great idea. I love that. I will use that.
Have you read His Needs, Her Needs?
That sure seems like a lot of togetherness.
Yeah? Your point being ...?
Could you please answer this?
I just feel smotherered mayber. Always having to smile. Making myself interact. Rather than at school where I can just be free, laugh, etc. When we were first married, he made me laugh all the time and he laughed all the time. Life has just worn him down. It is hard to be the upbeat one all the time or most of the time. At school, I can think of something other than chores to be done and chronic illness and whether this treatment will work or that one, etc.
Have you tried saying "I'd love it if you..." or "I love it when you..." that has been helping me a lot because I have a hard time asking for things when I'm tired or overwhelmed.
Great idea. I love that. I will use that.
Have you read His Needs, Her Needs?
No, just this website.
I suggest you take minivacations during breaks in the school year and you also take long vacations together in the summer when you're off school. Go on an adventure and reinvent a life with new common interests. Instead of growing apart, grow together. But you have to break through the mundane routines that are currently in place.
If you like to go on walks do the el camino de santiago. Or hike the Pacific Crest Trail. Find something new to do and do it. Make it a goal to try something new every month. Could be small or it could be bold. But just do it.
We took a long weekend in January and rented a cabin. We are taking another long weekend in May to go camping and fishing. We have a two week vacation in July reserved as well. I know this doesn't count, but we are also doing charity work for a week together in June.
I think the real problem is that you re here trying to solve this problem by yourself. You are trying to see how you can use MB by stealth in your marriage, but the work actually needs to be done by your husband, and that means it can't be done by stealth.
He is the one with the wife who is bored and does not feel romantic love for him. You seem to have a life separate from him that you enjoy reasonably well, but carving out a life for yourself does not solve your problem, because if it did, you would not keep coming back here with the same issue. You've got a job, and widened your activities in recent years, but those things do not compensate for a dull marriage.
And neither should they; you have tried to solve your problem by finding your own happiness, but it doesn't work. People who are married have the right to expect that their marriage will be the most fulfilling part of their lives, and that other aspects of their lives are successful because of their successful marriage. People shouldn't have to find fulfilment by looking outside of their marriage.
You once said that your husband is not enthusiastic about MB, and finds part of it rather silly. I think that's the real problem; he does not see the extent of your unhappiness, or perhaps he does not see that it is his role to fix it.
I think the real problem is that you re here trying to solve this problem by yourself. You are trying to see how you can use MB by stealth in your marriage, but the work actually needs to be done by your husband, and that means it can't be done by stealth.
He is the one with the wife who is bored and does not feel romantic love for him. You seem to have a life separate from him that you enjoy reasonably well, but carving out a life for yourself does not solve your problem, because if it did, you would not keep coming back here with the same issue. You've got a job, and widened your activities in recent years, but those things do not compensate for a dull marriage.
And neither should they; you have tried to solve your problem by finding your own happiness, but it doesn't work. People who are married have the right to expect that their marriage will be the most fulfilling part of their lives, and that other aspects of their lives are successful because of their successful marriage. People shouldn't have to find fulfilment by looking outside of their marriage.
You once said that your husband is not enthusiastic about MB, and finds part of it rather silly. I think that's the real problem; he does not see the extent of your unhappiness, or perhaps he does not see that it is his role to fix it.
^^^ Excellent post!!
And I also don't understand why you can't involve your Husband and POJA the sex issue?? If you're as close as you say you are you'd think he would jump at the chance to make you happy and give you the romance you desire and deserve??
I know I've suggested this many times to you before, but why not write Dr. Harley to the show?
How old is your husband?
What is this chronic illness he has? Is it physically disabling or lead to exhaustion?
Has your husband had his vitamin D checked? Some men are low and it impacts their emotional health and energy levels.
Has your husband had his testosterone levels checked? Some men when they get older have a huge drop in testosterone which can impact their sexual drive or desire for sex.
Does your husband respond to flirting?
The poja would be a good idea. Come up with a list of ideas and ask him would you rather do this or would you rather do that. As y'all do different things together you can find his preferences.
Melody suggests starting to practice POJA skills at the grocery store in the produce section
If you read the concept of the Love Bank, it would seem that your balance is in the red. Your husband may feel the same way.
The advice to spend more undivided attention together is so that you will meet each other Emotional Needs and start making Love Bank deposits. At first it will seem like going through the motions...but that is because if your balance is -50 and your DH deposits 10 you are still at -40..still not feeling in love until your balance is positive.
The advice to spend so much time together is to refill the balance quickly...just like you did when you first met and fell in love.
]
How old is your husband?
55What is this chronic illness he has? Is it physically disabling or lead to exhaustion?
Rather not get specific on a public forum. Has your husband had his vitamin D checked? Some men are low and it impacts their emotional health and energy levels.
Has your husband had his testosterone levels checked? Some men when they get older have a huge drop in testosterone which can impact their sexual drive or desire for sex.
He is in perfect health: testosterone levels good, vitamin levels good, low cholesterol and blood pressure, below average weight, good fitness level. They had never seen anyone as healthy in ICU. Does your husband respond to flirting?
The poja would be a good idea. Come up with a list of ideas and ask him would you rather do this or would you rather do that. As y'all do different things together you can find his preferences.
See we have the same values and interests so we make decisions pretty easily. Sex is the one thing we just don't talk about much. When I have brought up a few things, simple things like a fantasy I have, he gets defensive thinking he is a failure. This health issue has hit his self-esteem so much that I don't want him to feel like a failure in this area also. Melody suggests starting to practice POJA skills at the grocery store in the produce section
All of that to say, it has gotten somewhat better. He really is making an effort, but when you feel that bad 24/7.... heck if I had what he had I wouldn't feel like having sex either. I'm not sure I could make myself feeling like he does.
I just miss feeling wanted and swept off my feet. Enduring love, appreciation, yes I have that. That is probably more important anyway. There is no one I trust more or deeply care about.
Melody suggests starting to practice POJA skills at the grocery store in the produce section
WHATEVER!
I know I've suggested this many times to you before, but why not write Dr. Harley to the show?
Great and let us know when you hear back.
They answered it that day on the air. They basically said he should be making love to me 2 times a week and he should see an endocrinologist. I wrote back with the specifics of his health condition that I don't want to put here nor do i wish for them to air on the radio. His testosterone levels were fine. It is this health issue plus how the health issue happened. Anyway, I never heard back after I sent in the new info.
I think the real problem is that you re here trying to solve this problem by yourself. You are trying to see how you can use MB by stealth in your marriage, but the work actually needs to be done by your husband, and that means it can't be done by stealth.
He is the one with the wife who is bored and does not feel romantic love for him. You seem to have a life separate from him that you enjoy reasonably well, but carving out a life for yourself does not solve your problem, because if it did, you would not keep coming back here with the same issue. You've got a job, and widened your activities in recent years, but those things do not compensate for a dull marriage.
And neither should they; you have tried to solve your problem by finding your own happiness, but it doesn't work. People who are married have the right to expect that their marriage will be the most fulfilling part of their lives, and that other aspects of their lives are successful because of their successful marriage. People shouldn't have to find fulfilment by looking outside of their marriage.
You once said that your husband is not enthusiastic about MB, and finds part of it rather silly. I think that's the real problem; he does not see the extent of your unhappiness, or perhaps he does not see that it is his role to fix it.
I'd like to see a response to this ...
Just an update:
Not sure if you guys alerted him or not but Dr. Harley got in touch with me and hadn't received my update. After I sent it to him, he suggested I drop the sex stuff for now and work on conversation.
Prisca, I am not horribly unhappy exactly. He IS trying. He has brought me flowers twice in the last couple of weeks. We continue to spend at least 15 hours together. He doesn't complain about his health anymore. However, he has to keep a journal for his doctors and I peeked at it.. He feels really bad. ( Part of the reason Dr. Harley suggested dropping the SF for now.)
I think some of it is me. I've noticed I really cannot seem to have conversations with anyone right now. I'm happy if I'm busy working with people: teaching a concept, organizing things, etc But as far as intimate conversation, I seem unable to do that. I can't think of anything to say... We have started listening to a podcast together and discussing that. We have nice conversations about charity work and other things we need to "do." But just fun, lighthearted laughing conversations, not so much. But honestly, he just isn't up for it I think. He tries. He smiles, but it doesn't reach his eyes, but if I felt the way he did I'm not sure I would be able to be as pleasant as he is...
Prisca, I am not horribly unhappy exactly.
People who are happy don't post here seeking help. The fact is, your husband can and should be doing a lot more for you.
I'm not sure what else he can/should do. He is setting aside a minimum of 15 hours. ( We often get more now that he is working half time.) He tells me he loves me many times a day. As I mentioned he is bringing me flowers. He is appreciative and thanks me for the many things I do for him. He doesn't love bust me. He is a great provider. If I ask him to do something, he does it. I think the bad conversation is probably as much my fault as his. i cannot think of anything to say.
Get some magazines or start a hobby together. Look for new things to discuss from the news, etc.
I really don't want to start anything else. We already do a lot of church work together and charity work. We talk about tons of things that we need to "do." The hobby would just become work.
I'm not sure what else he can/should do. He is setting aside a minimum of 15 hours. ( We often get more now that he is working half time.) He tells me he loves me many times a day. As I mentioned he is bringing me flowers. He is appreciative and thanks me for the many things I do for him. He doesn't love bust me. He is a great provider. If I ask him to do something, he does it.
Does your husband know that you feel like this?
I love my husband, but all passion and play have gone from our relationship. ... We do not fight. We get along well, but much more like friends. I honestly don't feel like I am in love with him anymore.
That seems to be unhelpful and would only make him feel bad . I guess I'm not sure how this is all his fault. I mean I don't really feel like I love my children either. Is that their fault as well. I just don't feel overwhelming love for either one. But I've never been a person to live by feelings anyway. You do what is right regardless of what you feel. I just read on the website and it gives me hope that you can have that gushy love 24/7...
That seems to be unhelpful and would only make him feel bad . I guess I'm not sure how this is all his fault. I mean I don't really feel like I love my children either. Is that their fault as well. I just don't feel overwhelming love for either one. But I've never been a person to live by feelings anyway. You do what is right regardless of what you feel. I just read on the website and it gives me hope that you can have that gushy love 24/7...
Yes it is possible to have that gushy love 24/7.
It's not a matter of fault.
It's a matter of how relationships work.
The target or mark is achieving that feeling of gushy love. You are each responsible for creating that feeling of love in each other.
If he isn't achieving that, he is missing the mark, and he needs to know that through radical honesty.
One thing that would make you more likely to feel love is if you felt you could open up to him and tell him how you really feel.
Dr. Harley can help you do that in a way that motivates your husband to improve rather than demotivating him.
Yes he might feel bad, but he will feel a lot better WHEN HE IS HITTING THE MARK!
I do not think it is possible. Our oldest tried to commit suicide. Yet we are expected to continue our 15 hours on undivided attention...which we are doing, but fun. Not so much. We are both at the end of our rope.... Now I am looking at at breast cancer diagnosis. Yeah, have fun, be spontaneously in love.... Won't ever happen.
Thankfully, he is a good guy and we are facing all of this together. He is so incredibly supportive.
I would like for things to be romantic and fun, but life doesn't work that way.
Dr. HARLEY addressed my question today. They still say 15 hours away is the way to go but you cannot discuss your tragedies. That leaves us in silence at restaurants. I have 12 hour drive each way coming up with him by ourselves for a trip in a few weeks. I'm not looking forward to it.
Dr. HARLEY addressed my question today. They still say 15 hours away is the way to go but you cannot discuss your tragedies.
Can you find a hobby or sport you both enjoy? That way you can learn it and then play/do it together. No need to sit in a restaurant if that does not work for you.
I do not think it is possible. Our oldest tried to commit suicide. Yet we are expected to continue our 15 hours on undivided attention...which we are doing, but fun. Not so much. We are both at the end of our rope.... Now I am looking at at breast cancer diagnosis. Yeah, have fun, be spontaneously in love.... Won't ever happen.
Thankfully, he is a good guy and we are facing all of this together. He is so incredibly supportive.
I would like for things to be romantic and fun, but life doesn't work that way.
Why doesn't your life work that way? Why would you choose to have an unhappy marriage? Your life works the way you work it.
Our son was killed in a car accident in November and my H had a heart attack in March. I assure you we don't grovel in our tragedies on our dates. Nor do we sit there in silence. If you do, I would suggest that is a very poor choice. YOu will find your dates will be so much more pleasant if you talk about other things.
I don't expect you to EVER take the advice on this forum because you never have in the YEARS you have been here but I want others to know that this program is only impossible if one refuses to apply it.
I do not think it is possible. Our oldest tried to commit suicide. Yet we are expected to continue our 15 hours on undivided attention...which we are doing, but fun. Not so much. We are both at the end of our rope.... Now I am looking at at breast cancer diagnosis. Yeah, have fun, be spontaneously in love.... Won't ever happen.
Thankfully, he is a good guy and we are facing all of this together. He is so incredibly supportive.
I would like for things to be romantic and fun, but life doesn't work that way.
Why doesn't your life work that way? Why would you choose to have an unhappy marriage? Your life works the way they work it.
Our son was killed in a car accident in November and my H had a heart attack in March. I assure you we don't grovel in our tragedies on our dates. Nor do we sit there in silence. If you do, I would suggest that is a very poor choice. YOu will find your dates will be so much more pleasant if you talk about other things.
I don't expect you to EVER take the advice on this forum because you never have in the YEARS you have been here but I want others to know that this program is only impossible if one refuses to apply it.
Sorry for your loss. It only proves how much better you are than I am. I just cannot do it. I do not have the strength. You are right there is no hope.. Thank you for making me see it clearly.
Sorry for your loss. It only proves how much better you are than I am. I just cannot do it. I do not have the strength. You are right there is no hope.. Thank you for making me see it clearly.
Strength is a choice. Yes, you can do it, but you won't. There is no hope if you refuse to do anything to change. Do you think you help your - LIVING - son by groveling in your tragedies?
No one can help someone who refuses to be helped. How many years have you been on this forum complaining about the same problem under various names?
Sorry for your loss. It only proves how much better you are than I am. I just cannot do it. I do not have the strength. You are right there is no hope.. Thank you for making me see it clearly.
There is no hope as long as you refuse to tell your husband about how bored and unhappy you are, and to ask for his help in putting a rocket under your marriage.
You've been here a long time, identifying very clearly the aspects of your life that are unrewarding. You speak of the boredom caused by the remote place in which you live, by your farm, which you do not love and which takes up your time (if I remember correctly), by your lifestyle in general, and by your husband's topics of conversation, including his work and his ill health (again, if I remember correctly).
You tell US this, but you won't tell him. When I have suggested that you become radically honest with him about your unhappiness, you say that this will hurt him and that he does not deserve that.
Well, I can only reiterate what I have said before: your husband is giving you an unfulfilling marriage, but he cannot put that right if he does not know that fact.
You are trying to fix the problems with your marriage by yourself. You seem to hope that by posting on forums for advice, you can be given a magic solution that will make your husband interesting and sexy, when he does not know that he is uninteresting and unsexy. He is a good man, you say, because he is selfless and unstinting in his care for people, but he does not excite you because he is not passionate or romantic about YOU.
Your problems cannot be solved when only you are trying to find solutions to problems that your husband does not even know exist. If you are unwilling ever to talk to him, kindly but clearly, about what is wrong, then yes, there is no hope - but it need not be so.
Sorry for your loss. It only proves how much better you are than I am. I just cannot do it. I do not have the strength. You are right there is no hope.. Thank you for making me see it clearly.
Strength is a choice. Yes, you can do it, but you won't. There is no hope if you refuse to do anything to change. Do you think you help your - LIVING - son by groveling in your tragedies?
No one can help someone who refuses to be helped. How many years have you been on this forum complaining about the same problem under various names?
***edit***
If you have a problem with a poster notify the MODS. We don't allow personal attacks on MB.
Sorry about that. This is why I don't do conflict. i cannot. I will turn into my father. My children laugh because any time anything gets somewhat controversial, I will steer it to a nicer, happier topic. I cannot do conflict. Period. I'm sorry. I'll just stay off of here since I cannot agree with Melody. It is the safest for both of us. Sorry if I hurt you.
Sorry about that. This is why I don't do conflict. i cannot.
How is that working out for you, mommaelain? How much avoided "conflict" are you stuffing internally and not resolving it? It's so much better to learn how to do conflict successfully.
Wouldn't your kids and grandbabies love to have a healthy mommaelain around for a natural lifetime? This article is true, and it happened to me. I developed an arrhythmia in this situation:
When Marriage Can Hurt a Heart
Marital Strain Can Raise Risk of Death, Heart DiseaseFeb. 17, 2005 -- Marital strain is a home wrecker that can endanger the heart. So says a 10-year study of 3,000 men and women aged 18 to 77.
All participants were married or living in a "marital situation." The researchers collected data on marital discord. Health was tracked for a decade to see who developed heart disease or died of any cause during the study.
For both men and women, marital strain affected their health.
Marital Strain and the Married CoupleThe worst health risk was seen in women who hushed up when conflicts arose with their spouse. They said they usually or always silenced themselves in such situations.
Those women might have thought they were keeping the peace, but they paid dearly for it. Women who kept mum in marital conflicts had four times the risk of dying during the study, compared with women who spoke their minds.(source: webMD)
Sunnytimes, you are probably right but I have no clue how to change this at all. Melody makes it sound so easy, you just do it. Literally the flight section takes over, my heart pounds and I freeze. Literally.
This isn't just with my husband. It is with my kids, my co-workers, etc. It is why I only have surface relationships. That is why it makes me angry when everyone here says it is all my husband's fault. It is mine. I am broken.
i cannot. I will turn into my father.
But you don't have to turn into your father.
You can train your body to relax when it feels frustration so you can remain intelligently engaged instead of becoming an idiot (speaking out in anger).
Many of us have learned to do this and it has IMMEASURABLY changed our lives and relationships.
My husband and I just resolved an enormously sensitive issue last night, and after the discussion I was even more in love with him than before (if that is possible). This happens every time we run into conflicts.
You need to refuse to engage your Giver so your taker doesn't emerge. And refuse to accept your husband's Giver's concessions.
I won't accept any offers from my husband's giver no matter how much I would love what he is offering because I don't want to be the reason he has to fight his taker - and I certainly don't want to fight his taker. That would be awful.
You should study the article here on the Giver and the Taker, which gets to the root of successfully eradicating conflict.
When you avoid conflict you are fighting internally with your taker - until your taker wins (which it will eventually) and then you fight externally. Either fight is marriage destroying behavior.
Life has much more to offer than the condition you are resigning to.
Sunnytimes, you are probably right but I have no clue how to change this at all. Melody makes it sound so easy, you just do it. Literally the flight section takes over, my heart pounds and I freeze. Literally.
This isn't just with my husband. It is with my kids, my co-workers, etc. It is why I only have surface relationships. That is why it makes me angry when everyone here says it is all my husband's fault. It is mine. I am broken.
Mommaelain, I am married to a conflict avoider and I promise you that your husband can absolutely help you. He has to be very, very gentle with you. The moment you feel even a tiny bit panicked, tell him.
Mommaelain, most of us reached a point of pain where we just realized we had no choice but to just do it.
I reached that moment in about 6th grade when I was famous for my temper and was about to clobber a 5th grader with a large branch. Thankfully, the moment before it happened, I realized there would be consequences I didn't want to face, and that my temper was just really stupid.
Dr. Harley had this moment as a young adult.
Many on this board had that moment later in life when they were just so sad in their marriage that making the choice to do this was less painful than continuing on.
That's why we say "just chose to do it".
Sunnytimes, you are probably right but I have no clue how to change this at all. Melody makes it sound so easy, you just do it. Literally the flight section takes over, my heart pounds and I freeze. Literally.
No, I don't make it sound easy at all. But saying something is "impossible" and "won't ever happen" is a refusal to even try. I have been on this forum every day for 16 years and have seen hundreds of couples successfully use this program. The program works, but only if YOU work it. It can't force you do use it against your will.
I recognize you get real triggered when I point out the real obstacle is you and not the program but it is the truth. Like I said, you have been here for YEARS - under various aliases - with the same problem. That tells me you are not looking for solutions.
The last time I lost my temper with someone in real life was probably 20 years ago. My husband and I never fight. Ever. We discuss sometimes but neither raises our voices to each other or call each other names or whatever. Never done that in our marriage. The 15 to 20 years ago is when my kids were small. I screamed at them a lot unfortunately. I was eventually able to stop.
mommaelain: "I would like for things to be romantic and fun, but life doesn't work that way."<-----but you are on a forum posting to people whose lives DO work that way. How can this work if you reject the very objective of the program?
The 15 to 20 years ago is when my kids were small. I screamed at them a lot unfortunately. I was eventually able to stop.
And so too, can you stop avoiding conflict in a way that destroys you.
Literally the flight section takes over, my heart pounds and I freeze. Literally.
When you feel this moment approaching, change your entire focus to relaxing your physical responses. You need to establish a new pattern of reaction, a new instinct and habit to take the place of what you do now.
You can practice on your own until it starts coming naturally.
Literally the flight section takes over, my heart pounds and I freeze. Literally.
When you feel this moment approaching, change your entire focus to relaxing your physical responses. You need to establish a new pattern of reaction, a new instinct and habit to take the place of what you do now.
You can practice on your own until it starts coming naturally.
This is very similar to the methodology of overcoming anger. You did that once successfully.
You can do this too.
Literally the flight section takes over, my heart pounds and I freeze. Literally.
When you feel this moment approaching, change your entire focus to relaxing your physical responses. You need to establish a new pattern of reaction, a new instinct and habit to take the place of what you do now.
You can practice on your own until it starts coming naturally.
This is very similar to the methodology of overcoming anger. You did that once successfully.
You can do this too.
That isn't what I did. I learned to run away instead. If I wanted to yell at the children, then I left the area. I changed the conversation. I left home...many times they didn't know why. I just stuffed it. I didn't conquer it. I haven't felt anger in awhile other than online. I normally don't get angry anymore.
Literally the flight section takes over, my heart pounds and I freeze. Literally.
When you feel this moment approaching, change your entire focus to relaxing your physical responses. You need to establish a new pattern of reaction, a new instinct and habit to take the place of what you do now.
You can practice on your own until it starts coming naturally.
This is very similar to the methodology of overcoming anger. You did that once successfully.
You can do this too.
That isn't what I did. I learned to run away instead. If I wanted to yell at the children, then I left the area. I changed the conversation. I left home...many times they didn't know why.
I just stuffed it. I didn't conquer it. I haven't felt anger in awhile other than online. I normally don't get angry anymore.
Did you read the article I posted above about how harmful 'stuffing it' is to your health and life span?
Yes, I read the article. I agree it is harmful. However, someone would have to help me do it. I need to fix me before I fix my husband. I just cannot do this by myself. Someone would have to stand by me and force me to do the right thing.
Yes, I read the article. I agree it is harmful. However, someone would have to help me do it. I need to fix me before I fix my husband. I just cannot do this by myself. Someone would have to stand by me and force me to do the right thing.
Mommaelain, I would be very depressed if I felt that I was powerless to change a habit without this type of intervention.
I'm sure you are able to do many things on your own without this type of supervision.
Why not this one?
It seems you've convinced yourself that you're helpless to direct your own behaviors.
Until you recognize that you and you ONLY are responsible for your own behaviors, you are in a bit of a fix.
There are techniques you can use to retrain your instincts. A technique that helped me when I wanted to control a reaction that had become instinctive was to tap my heart and repeat "Lord, heal my broken heart", over and over, until my natural response instinct had passed.
You might be able to try tapping your heart with "Be still and know that I am God", or "Rest in the Lord and be still.".... or some other verse that works for you to calm your heart.
When I did this, within several weeks my response patterns had changed. It took a few months before I never needed to do it anymore.
There are a plethora of other techniques available to re-train responses - they're all over the internet. You have met many challenges in life far greater than this one. You just need to get started with the first step.
Mommaelain, I would be very depressed if I felt that I was powerless to change a habit without this type of intervention.
I'm sure you are able to do many things on your own without this type of supervision.
Why not this one
Actually, I'm not able to change anything. I do EVERYTHING for others. I want to be seen as a good teacher, so I put in lessons, I interact with kiddos so I will get kuddos. I want God to be happy with me, so I go and minister to homeless so as not to be sent out like the goats in the Bible. Everything I do is so that everyone around me will be happy.
Hence, no one is at home right now so I have been in my pajamas eating junk food all day... Why? because I can and no one is here for me to perform for or to live up to. When hubby comes home, I will be dressed with a smile and healthy food. I slip up most often around my children.
I will try some of your suggestions and see if they work.
That is why I cannot wait for school to start back in a couple of months. Then I will be busy and happy again and not posting/spending hours on the internet.
Actually, I'm not able to change anything. I do EVERYTHING for others. I want to be seen as a good teacher, so I put in lessons, I interact with kiddos so I will get kuddos. I want God to be happy with me, so I go and minister to homeless so as not to be sent out like the goats in the Bible. Everything I do is so that everyone around me will be happy.
Hence, no one is at home right now so I have been in my pajamas eating junk food all day... Why? because I can and no one is here for me to perform for or to live up to. When hubby comes home, I will be dressed with a smile and healthy food. I slip up most often around my children.
That sounds exhausting.
It seems you are a Christian based on several of your posts. You do know that none of your works will make God happy with you, right? That your righteousness is only through the blood of Jesus Christ? Good works are voluntarily offered by people who have been saved through the blood of Jesus as gratitude for their salvation - BUT they do not merit salvation in any way.
The goats are the people who never knew God. They are the ones that did all of the good works but did not know the saving blood of Jesus.
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Your good works theology seems to have permeated every dimension of your life. And your overtaxed giver is not serving you well.
Salvation gives us LIBERTY to know that the Lord loves us fully and completely (through Jesus) so we are not living in fear of our good works being sufficient.
I was raised in an environment that had quite a few works-based rules. A study of Galatians helped me understand that God does not require any works from me. They are simply an outpouring of gratitude on my part. Even worse,
if we are focused on whether our works are good enough it directs our attention to ourselves instead of towards loving God.
Your husband would probably love to give you the liberty to just be yourself with him as well.
He is likely not asking for your giver to be constantly on duty - and may not be aware that it is.I did not reference all of the many verses which support this due to space restrictions, and also to not distract the thread, but if you want to study this further, let me know and I'll ask a moderator if they are willing pass something along to you.
Thanks Sunny! I agree that we cannot be saved by works, only be the grace of God. There is nothing we can do to earn it. On the other hand, "Faith without works is dead." James 2:14-26 and
"From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and from the one to whom much has been entrusted, even more will be demanded" (Luke 12:48
I am still going to have to stand before my God and explain how I used my talents.
That said, some of what you say makes sense. I will pray and think on it. Thank you for talking with me. I really appreciate it.
But this
I want God to be happy with me, so I go and minister to homeless so as not to be sent out like the goats in the Bible.
does not square with this:
I agree that we cannot be saved by works, only be the grace of God. There is nothing we can do to earn it.
Dr. Harley's advice very beautifully parallel the Bible in 100's of more ways than he explicitly lays out on this site.
Just like we can't "giver" our way into a relationship with God, we can't "giver" our way into relationships here either.
All of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags to God. Romans 3 says there is none righteous, no not one and then goes on to explain that our righteousness is only through Christ.
Do you see that God puts no value on your giver with respect to your salvation? Your giver earns you nothing with God! Regardless of the extent of your giver and magnificent works, you will still be sent away on that day if you don't KNOW God through Jesus Christ.
In parallel (marriage is often described in the Bible as a parallel to our relationship with Christ), many spouses who are the recipients of another spouse's sacrificial giver on the level of what you have described have no earthly idea that the other person is sacrificing and have therefore no gratitude or appreciation for all this sacrifice. And, if they were informed of it, they wouldn't want it!
I cannot tell if this is all exactly the case with your husband; it is just clear to me from your description there is a lot of giving going on that he isn't aware of.
And worse yet, you experience a sort of panic if you don't give others 'enough' (unknown to them).
A sort of panic that is running your life and ruining your marriage.
I hope you do practice relaxing at the first sense of stress and redirecting your reaction patterns by purposefully distracting yourself from the destructive response, like we discussed above.
And worse yet, you experience a sort of panic if you don't give others 'enough' (unknown to them).
A sort of panic that is running your life and ruining your marriage.
I hope you do practice relaxing at the first sense of stress and redirecting your reaction patterns by purposefully distracting yourself from the destructive response, like we discussed above.
I will try. Thank you.
Dr. HARLEY addressed my question today. They still say 15 hours away is the way to go but you cannot discuss your tragedies. That leaves us in silence at restaurants. I have 12 hour drive each way coming up with him by ourselves for a trip in a few weeks. I'm not looking forward to it.
May I ask for the information on the Giver/Taker? I am trying to better understand how to control AO as my husband and I are often triggering anger in a downward spiral.
Tx
May I ask for the information on the Giver/Taker? I am trying to better understand how to control AO as my husband and I are often triggering anger in a downward spiral.
Tx
Your AOs are not directly related to your Giver and Taker. They are an immature reaction to conflict (think tantrums and two year olds). You 'control' your AOs by no longer having them. It is a bad habit that can build over time as a way of punishing your spouse for not doing what you want him to. You need to learn to discuss the issue that caused the conflict like a grownup and negotiate a solution. Sometimes that needs to be done later when the crisis is over. If that is the case, leave the scene of the crime until you can do that.
You mention your husband having AOs too. You cannot control someone else, only yourself. But, once you have cleaned up your side of the street, tell him that his AOs upset you. Then at the next AO say nothing but leave the room. Later tell him that he has a choice; stop the AOs or go into anger management. If he says he will try to stop, tell him that this is a very dangerous choice because if he fails, he will be sleeping at his mother's house. Either he can stop by himself or he cannot, no half way.
May I ask for the information on the Giver/Taker? I am trying to better understand how to control AO as my husband and I are often triggering anger in a downward spiral.
Tx
Angry outbursts have to be eliminated first. You can't negotiate in the face of angry outbursts. Check out this thread:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2603602#Post2603602