Here's my scenario. Plan A did not work because my WS took it as an opportunity to be controlling and demanding. When I couldn't go along with his unreasonable requests, he had an excuse to see the OW although he denied this of course. He came up with the same stupid excuses for his unexplained absences.

Still in Plan A on Xmas Eve: We had a great nignt together. We were intimate. Nice expensive Xmas present to me early Xmas morning.

Xmas day he becomes unreasonable with me. Does not want to take me to the video store; there's been a continual problem of not wanting to be seen with me in public. There's one of his set-up fignts with my 20 year old son.

The next day (after Xmas) he arranges a rendezvous with the OW at a hotel. I almost catch him but she gets away.

The next day I verbally go into Plan B. He says he wants to separate and look for place. He spends the night out in the motel alone. I know this for sure, using my tactics.

The next day, really by coincidence, on a drive that morning, I SEE HER for the first time. I know her car and driver's license. I am appalled that she is young enough to be our daughter and quite different looking than I would expect. When she sees me ride by in my car, she literally RUNS into the house she is visiting as if she thinks I will get out and hurt her. I'm not sure what that is about.

My WS, who had voiced a plan to leave,comes home that afternoon and has been the model husband, straight home after work, etc. For me, I wrote him a PLAN B Letter that night and moved out of our bedroom, appalled by the looks and age of the OW. Plus I have not been speaking to him since he has ignored my request for him to either leave or write a No Contact letter.

Now New Year's Eve is coming up and want to remind him of how I will not tolerate him staying out all night. Should I ask him to look for an apartment tomorrow and not come back home if he plans to stay out?

What kind of game do you think he is playing? Any assistance will be appreciated.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Now New Year's Eve is coming up and want to remind him of how I will not tolerate him staying out all night. Should I ask him to look for an apartment tomorrow and not come back home if he plans to stay out? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know your whole story but I will try to help. Gotta ask questions first...

How long have you been in Plan A? Have you identified you and your H's ENs? Have you discussed those?

Have you discussed N.Y. plans with H? Can you come to some sort of agreement?

It sounds like your H is doing the classic back and forth routine.

You must be sure that you are absolutely sure of Plan B.

Post back and hopefully some more wiser than I will jump in here.

<small>[ December 31, 2002, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: Luki ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>What kind of game do you think he is playing?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's playing the typical WS game.

But here's the question you don't want to hear: What kind of game are YOU playing?

Plan A didn't work? What did you expect it to do?

mimi, I suggest you start all over and do a REAL Plan A and forget about Plan B for a long while.

That said, your actions are understandable and we validate your pain and frustration. But what you are doing may make things worse. You CANNOT force him to do anything, yet you're trying. STOP TRYING!

Take a long look in the mirror and figure out what things you were doing BEFORE the affair that were detrimental to your marriage. Then fix them and demonstrate to your H that they're fixed. This is what Plan A is all about - YOU. Plan A is NOT about changing your H or ending the affair. You cannot change either one.

Understand?

Thanks All!

What you are saying, I think, is to be honest and to take a hard look at myself.

A major problem which my WS openly speaks to is that I have given priority to the children over him. He has felt shut out and does not have a good relationship with them at this point and they are 16 and 20. During Plan A, he wanted a show on my part that I would stand behind him in his dealings with the children. In my view, he proceeded to try to pay them back for his years of unhappiness with the situation. He came up with what I thought were unreasonable demands such as asking my 20 year old to come home at 11:00PM when his high school curfew was 12. My son countered angrily and then he wanted to sell his car and wants to throw him out of the house. Except for that uprising with my WS, my son did well in college over the past semester and has done well. Sounds like I'm taking up for him again, right? I would ideally like to sit down with my WS and work out a consequence for him. What my WS says that if I'm really serious about working on our relationship I will go along with what he wants and "kick my son out of the house"-no JOINT AGREEMENT -which is what I requested during PLAN A.

The appeal of the other woman basically is that she does not have any children with whom he has to share affection and attention. She is a 25 year old single woman; whereas my husband is 49 and maybe able to be the father to her as he feels he has been unable to be with our children. I'm beginning to feel like this is hopeless with the stuff with the children going on for so long.

During the first couple of weeks of PLAN A, my WS was being open with me about his feelings and concerns. Now he has closed off again and seems hostile, saying he is thinking about separation but not making any major moves in that direction.
HELP!

WOrtha Try,
I just spoke with my WS and he says that we can talk again tonight. He was speaking nicely with me over the phone at his office. I do want to try PLAN A again. What do you suggest? I know my WS wants some clear indication that I will put him first over the children. He seems to need an EXTREME DEMONSTRATION of this. He is open about wanting the children to pay a big price for him to stay home. All I can do is express an understanding of his feelings but that does not seem to be enough. They don't have a clue what's going on. He feels crazy to them for me to make such an abrupt change.

You are so right. I can't change my WS of my children. I can only change myself. I just want everybody to be happy.

mimi,

I am trying to understand this. Does he want you to HARM your children in order to "prove" your devotion to him or does he simply want to be treated with respect in his own home? Because there is a very big difference. Have you been undermining him?

I would strongly suggest printing off the emotional needs questionaires for you both to get an understanding of his needs and what has led to the condition in the marriage that led to his affair. Determining his emotional needs will be the first step in executing Plan A.

P.S. Why is he embarrassed to be seen with you?

mimi - I'm not real sure how to advise you here - I hope you get some additional opinions.

The conflicts regarding the children have to be resolved following the policy of joint agreement - which in topics like this require compromise. Healthy marriages have these conflicts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>I know my WS wants some clear indication that I will put him first over the children. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This strikes me as being "uncompromising" and selfish. Good parents everywhere agree that being a parent requires sacrifice. He wants to be first over the children - always? Do you sense that this has always been his view - or just since he started his affair? Has his relationship with the children diminished only recently, or was it always strained? In other words, is it possible he's using this "conflict" as one of convenience - to help justify his affair? Be wary of this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>He is open about wanting the children to pay a big price for him to stay home. </strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Huh? What does this mean? He's gonna hold the children hostage?

Others help me: is this WS fog babble? Is he making unreasonable demands that can't be met as a pretext for leaving and pursuing young, sweet, OW?

Even if the conflict with the kids is not related to the affair, the affair is a brick wall to recovery and you cannot end it - he has to and you cannot demand that he do this.

For now all you can do is explore what needs of his you were not meeting. I suggest each of you complete the Emotional Needs Questionaire if he's willing. Then start working on filling all the ENs he claims you haven't been.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>mimi,

I am trying to understand this. Does he want you to HARM your children in order to "prove" your devotion to him or does he simply want to be treated with respect in his own home? Because there is a very big difference. Have you been undermining him?

I would strongly suggest printing off the emotional needs questionaires for you both to get an understanding of his needs and what has led to the condition in the marriage that led to his affair. Determining his emotional needs will be the first step in executing Plan A.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MelodyLane:
[QB]mimi,

I am trying to understand this. Does he want you to HARM your children in order to "prove" your devotion to him or does he simply want to be treated with respect in his own home? Because there is a very big difference. Have you been undermining him?

MelodyLane:
I think its some of both. A part of him wants to see the children hurt AND he understandably wants to be treated with respect in his own home. He is continuing to INSIST on the need to just throw my son out the house and says he "doesn't care" what happens to him. I think there have been many occasions when he has not been treated with respect and he has felt that I have condoned this. He has not been able to let go of the animosity about those times. I understand now that I have not been sensitive to his need for respect.

NOW, he seems to be using this issue as a justification for continuation of the A because the children are highly disrespectful and we can't just snap our fingers and make this change.

In answer to some of your other questions:

I don't really think he's embarassed to be seen with me in public. I'm not unattractive or anything. I'm not sure why he refuses to go out with me. He's seems anxious about this. I'm thinking that maybe the OW has made some type of threat about this. The last time I asked him about just going out or going away, he responded angrily by saying that I should have been agreeable to doing this in the past and now its too late.

His relationship with the children has always been strained and now he and they are feeling hopeless about a repair. My relationship with them is maybe too close. My WS continues to bring up a conversation that was held many years ago where other women and I were discussing Who would they save first, children or husband. Most of the women, including me I think said children. My husband tearfully states that he can't believe that I said that; he would have definitely saved me since "I came first".

I think the purpose of this issue with the children varies. I think its a real problem and I also think he uses it as a justification for his A. It keeps him from acknowledging his disrespect of me. His position is, I've disrespected him so he is justified in disrespecting me.

I hear you saying that I can't demand that he stop having the A. Yes, its a brick wall to our relationship. Do you think he is saying that he does not want a relationship with me given all that has happened over the years and he does not know how to disengage himself. We have been married 26 years. He insists that he is not "in love" with the other woman. Given her age and looks, I would definitely say he is "in lust" with her.

He often acts as if he still cares. He especially interested in sexual intimacy with me. However, there is definitely a part of him that he has closed off from me that I don't know how to get back.

Personally, as a Dad, I cannot identify with his prioritization. That said, I also experienced being put on the back burner to some extent after my boys were born, but I think I was like most Dads and recognized this as part of the cost of admission to Parentland.

This is a huge issue for him.

I suggest you follow thru with the emotional needs questionaire and then consider counseling for yourself, at least, to gain insight or, ideally, both of you to help get to the bottom of this.

WAT