I have been engaged to a man for 1.5 years and we were together for 1 year prior to that. Just before we got engaged he moved with me for my job and so we live together. We have been trying to pull together our wedding for a while now but I keep flaking out because I am not sure if we should be getting married. I can't decide if it is because I am a flake or if it is because he is not right for me. We are both 31.
The good: He does 40%-50% of the housework. We spend quiet a bit of time together and have fun together. We are on the same page politically and spiritually. His family is amazing.
The issues:
He is horrible with money and only thinks about himself - I make more money than him and we both have student loan debt. Things have sort of worked out so that I pay all of our mutual bills and we each pay or own bills. I get upset about this and we work out a way for him to contribute, but then the next month he overspends on crap and I end up having to pay everything again until we have another fight. He wants a big wedding and I want a small one, but he has not put one cent toward saving for the wedding and is instead spending every extra dime he has to fund is very expensive audio/music hobby. I personally really enjoy traveling but he doesn't seem to think it is an issue that I can't save enough to do it while paying all of our bills because he doesn't like to travel. Generally, when it comes to financial issues he will eventually give in but not until after I nag and nag and nag and he thinks this is fine. I hate it! I want him to want us to BOTH sacrifice a bit so we can BOTH meet our goals.
He has a hot temper - he has not been physical with me but recently told me he was with his ex-girlfriend of five years who also had a hot temper. I go into problem solving mode when fighting but now I generally just give him space to cool down so he doesn't flip out. So, I can handle the hot temper (although it annoys me) but I am nervous that if we have kids they will push his buttons and he will fly off the handle.
He is lazy when it comes to work. When we moved to a large city it took him 4 months to get a job and he didn't get one until I started sending in resumes for him. He shows up to work on time and never calls in sick and I am fine if he doesn't want to strive toward moving up and is content with where he is at, I am just nervous that if he ever does lose his job, he won't get another one for a long time and the entire financial burden will be on me.

Are these issues everyone deals with? Am I crazy to tie myself tim him financially by getting married?

Oh yes, and I should add that I am career driven and he recently told me he would not move more than a 5 hour drive away from his parents no matter how good of job I found.

Yikes! Can't win them all, but I say #1, living together is already on the side of failure. #2 my W was a feministic career woman and was set to get a nanny (yes we could afford it) when she was pregnant. She turned into martha stuart the minute our dd came out of her. It was like a light switched. She didn't know how to change a diaper for crying out loud, but that didn't stop the feeling of being with our dd every sec. of every day. And we had $125,000 EACH of student loans, read $250,000 when we graduated!

I am 15 years into our M, and I love her wouldn't want the past to be different for the most part. She is the best mom on the planet bar none. If I could go back and change it, I would:
Not have had sex b4 marriage
Sat down and wrote out obligations in a marriage contract, that can be ammended
Not listened to her b/c she had such a confident authority about her and she had 9 years more of life exp. than I had.

No, I wouldn't marry him.

Thank you for your response. I agree, living together was a mistake but we made our bed on that and I think I either need to move forward with marriage or end the relationship.

To your comment about your W becoming Martha Stewart, I could also see myself going that path but the thing that scares me to no end is that there would never be any possible way for me to scale back my job or hours to spend more time as a mom because we couldn't afford it. Also, with his current spending habits we could not afford a nanny. I think I would be a lot less stressed out about this if I felt like he shared life goals with me and felt equally responsible for achieving them. He really really wants us to have a baby as soon as possible and say, "Oh don't worry, we will figure the money stuff out." I need more planning and action than that! What he really means is that I will figure it out! Or .... maybe he is right and I just need to relax .. I don't know.

Why would you want to marry a lazy physically abusive mooch? You would be crazy to tie yourself to him financially or in any other way. He wants to have kids really quick so you will be tied to him and unable to walk away from paying for his big lifestyle.

Get him out of your house. Slow down the whole relationship, if you still want it--and I'm not sure why you would.

Talk to his ex-girlfriend and get her side of the story. Either he's incredibly honest or feels sure enough of you that he figures not even the threat of physical abuse will scare you off. It should. Physical abusers have a high recidivism rate.

Then take a closer look at yourself to find out why you let such a user into your home and your life in the first place.

No, you need to figure it out NOW! That later comment will be 15 years in with 3 kids a mortgage, 2 car payments, student loans while he has his music equipment pile int the garage and still buying more.

You can live separately, that is still not impossible. If that is too much for him, you'll know, right? then he'll have to pay his own way for a while and grow up.

I gotta tell you, 40 yr olds and younger have no work ethic, the ones that do are far and few between, like you. Find a mature person, that's all, not "we can figure that out later". It almost sounds like he wants to trap you by you having a child.

As long as you are giving and it's what he wants, with no resolution or thought of what you need for security he will not care. He sounds like a "parents" kid. Let me guess, they still give him money etc. right? Makes me sick.

Is having children any time soon driving your decision? NOT a great reason to marry someone.

Look at it this way. We are on our best behavior when we're dating. Which means that, once you're married, his treatment of you will only get worse.

That said, if you HAVE to stay together and get married, the one thing I would invest in with NO WAY OUT is to hire an accountant to handle your money. Have your money go directly to this accountant - both of you - and let him/her provide you what you need according to your long-term plans. In other words, if traveling is important, make sure your accountant is putting aside enough of your income every month to afford a decent vacation each year. That kind of thing.

It will be WELL worth the money, to have finances NOT be a problem in your marriage.

I married DH when he was making more money than me. He is more educated and brighter than me. He hasn't worked in years, for various reasons and I hate, hate, hate it. I would run away. It's a horrible life to know that you can never take time off to be with the kids, and my DH has no anger issues.

ETA, could both your wages go into a joint account, and each of you get 'spending money' into a private account from that. This way, your bills get paid first, before he has a chance to spend it on crap. Saying that, do you want to be with a man you have to 'manage' or do you want to be with another adult?

Oh yes, his parents just gave him a "loan" for a $2000 computer that he can pay back whenever he gets around to it and I recently learned that they were paying his rent before we moved in together.

I know it sounds ridiculous that I would put up with this so let me give you a fuller picture. When he was younger working at a coffee shop in a large city the Chamber of Commerce gave him the customer service award - selected out of the entire city of all retail employees. It is not uncommon for us to leave a restaurant and have the waiter and half the staff hugging him and wanting to hang out with him. He is an absolute joy to be around and has a magnetic charm about him. My previous relationship of six years was with someone that was responsible but somewhat dull and totally inattentive so I guess I just got swept up in the charm and attention. Who knew prince charming would not be able to pay his bills and would have a temper that would make him punch the wall if he spilled his coffee or curse like a sailor if a driver in front of him didn't use their turn signal?

Other than the fact that he is charming why am I in this? I can say that he is A LOT like my dad except that my dad was/is more financially responsible. I like having someone around and I guess I think that no one is perfect and everyone has to make sacrifices, I mean, do people ever entirely agree on money?

We have talked a lot about a lot of these things and I have to admit that there has been some progress. He is still selfish with his money but at least his bills are paid on time and he buys the groceries sometimes.

I think I also have a problem with spending way too much time trying to please others rather than thinking about what it is I need and then requiring it.

Catperson - Yes, I am concerned about being able to have kids.

Got to tell you - I've been supporting my H since we got together. I made the mistake of living with him (or, rather, letting him move in with me) and not sticking with my boundaries about money and him paying his part of the expenses. It has, over our 8 (9?) year relationship, become a HUGE thorn. He's now about to graduate from school (at almost 42) and start teaching and earning a paycheck, FINALLY. And it's only because our marriage about blew up in 2009 and he had an epiphany about a bunch of things, including his failure to contribute financially, that we're even still together.

You do NOT want to go down this road. Seriously. Get him OUT of your house, and if there's some real reason you two should stay together, he needs to step up and show you some maturity and financial responsibility and REAL CHANGE before you combine your lives, finances, and FUTURES together. Frankly, (and this is understanding we're only getting one side here) you probably need to move on and find someone with values that are more in tune with your own.

But he doesn't have a small problem with money, he has a very big problem. This gets magnified soooo much when you are trying to pay childcare, and activities for the kids.

This isn't just about money. It's about some fundamental core values - work ethic, financial responsibility, and priorities in a relationship. This isn't just a saver v. spender discussion. He's failing to live up to ALL of his obligations if he's not paying his part of your MUTUAL bills. Buying the groceries periodically doesn't cut it. If he won't follow through with his agreements with you now, what makes you think he will when you're married?

Then by all means, do not marry a person whom you think would have problems being a responsible father! Don't do that to your kids!

IIWY, I would tell him you're having doubts and that you don't see him ever being a responsible adult. You HAVE to bring honesty to your relationship. Tell him that you have to live apart. And you have to see if he can learn to be more responsible over, say the next 6-12 months because, if he can't, you don't want to waste time on a relationship that won't last. In other words, give him the opportunity to step up.

If I knew now what I did then...

That is what people are telling you!!!

My entire family thought I would marry a Cindy Crawford type. I have news, they are boring and are as shallow as plate of water.

I ended up with someone they would never have guessed. Very well balanced, but we were just friends for 2 years before I asked her, and not even from attraction, just much in common.

Anyway, I would run. My gawd, I cannot stand anyone who has left the house and are still dependent on mom and dad. It truly makes me want to vomit.

I would stick to dependability and predictability over "fun"/charming (been there done that) they are fake once you get to know them, it's a learned act.

Look for maturity.

When I got married TO MY NOW EX Husband...my mother said "He aint yer boy" "You'll be divorced in 3 years." She was right.

He aint your boy Nomader. Sounds like you've got your act together. Him...uh not so much.

Cut your losses now. Take the money that you would have spent on a wedding and buy you a nice house.

Nomader, the greatest reason I can see for getting out is that your chances of making a great marriage after living together are very, very low. The divorce rate for those who live together first is 85%. Living together ruins relationships.

Living together fosters a renters mentality that is devastating when cemented into a marriage. It is like renting a car. With a rental car, you neglect and mistreat it. When you BUY that same car, you are in the habit of mistreating it. And since you now OWN the car, you believe the car has to put up your treatment, no matter what.

Dr. Harley, and other psychologists call this the "curse of living together before marriage."

That is the biggest reason I would end the relationship.

Here is a good article about it. Living Together Before Marriage

Nomader,

Mel is not correct about the divorce rate of folks that live together, but it is higher than folks who do not.

But, here is the reason I think you should not marry. It is you. You really have nothing good to say about him other than otehr people like him. You have also already been in a 6 year relationship and now you are in this relationship. Long term relationships that do not lead to something indicate a problem with the person doing the choosing and that would be you.

Mel, made a comment about living together being an indicator of poor marriage prospects. It is true but not for everyone. What does make it true, is that people who live together often don't value the real meaning of marriage. They often think it is just a "piece of paper". it is not.

You are very smart to worry about marrying a man that you have so little regard for no matter if your statements are accurate or not, no matter that he MIGHT change. Marrying someone you don't respect is a huge HUGE HUGE mistake.

Personally, I would strongly recommend that you read the articles on this site concerning Harley's four rules for a good marriage, his policies of joint agreement and radical honesty, and then the concept of needs and love busters.

I recommend this, not to save this relationship, it should be in the dumper, but rather so that you learn to make better choices in men. Your BF/fiance is who he is. You chose him, you had him move with you, and you complain about him. This is not a good picture of...YOU, and certainly means you have not selected a man that is a good match for you.

Please learn and understand what makes a good spouse and a good spouse in your case. My guess is that not all of the problems in this relationship are his, but you have listed enough complaints to strongly suggest you should not marry him, your don't even respect him much less love him.

Please think about this carefully and I hope that you do some reading here. It will help you get a better perspective on what you expect from a mate.

God Bless,

JL

JL, can you clarify this statement? The divorce rate for folks who don't live together is roughly 50%, whereas the D rate for those who do is 85%. The divorce rate for those who live together is 80% higher than those who don't.

Living Together before Marriage, Dr Willard Harley:

continued here

p.s. Nomader, if you decide to try and save this, I would strongly recommend you get the book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders and jump to the chapter titled "The Curse of Living Together." Dr Harley explains why living together is so disasterous to a relationship and then follows with a chapter on how to turn a renter into a buyer.