I'll expand....

OH: three months ago you started to enforce your boundaries. Things started to get better. No your allowing your boundaries to get crossed again, and the anger is starting to appear.

Your H uses HIS ANGER to control you. And puts in the absolute minimum to meet your standards, and less if he can get away with it.

When you moved to the couch, he took that as a sign that what he was doing wasn't good enough. You have backed away from those behaviors and your sliding back down into the same rut...

Does that help more?

It was interesting to find out what you do for a living OH...

LG

Ok, I see where you are going now.

I swear when I read the AntiChick's posts, I'm looking at my life in a mirror. I was thinking exactly that last night, LG....now that I've backed off the D papers and left the couch, we're backsliding.

But I don't want to go back to the couch and back to the D papers.

There has to be a middle ground.

I'm so thickheaded, I haven't been able to find it!

I get *so* upset when he yells at me, that all logic flies out the window. And then it takes me FOREVER to come down from being so upset. When I went to sit outside in the car while he was AOing the other night, I fell asleep (yes, I can fall asleep while I'm mad! I can multi-task you know...)

Next thing I know, he's coming down the driveway. Doesn't ask my permission to come into the car, just opens the door (ok, I'm nitpicking..)

Among other things he said "I didn't want to come down here, but I did".

I didn't appreciate that as O&H at the time, I saw it as him wanting husband points. But I didn't say anything pro or con.

It's taken me THIS long to figure out that I need to figure out how to get back on the same team. I have no clue. I told him that last night and he feels the same way. And my instant reaction was "what do YOU have to complain about" LOL..as if I'm so perfect? But I didn't share my reaction with him.

Anyway, I'm feeling more benevolent today, but have no idea what to do with it, MB novice that I am.

LG, my real profession is marketing and business development. This job is simply a weigh station to make some money and allow me schedule flexibility (part of the deal going in, which they seem to want to renege on now...)

When I worked a FT job in the corporate world, I was a marketing/brand manager in the CPG industry (consumer packaged goods).

OH:

This line:


Of course you get upset when he yells at you.

We all do.

He uses that to control you. You start leaving the area. That works. Now he is following you... out to the car.

Back to the couch.

You don't deserve to be yelled at.

You can D this man if you need to.

His choice. He is capable of learning to do it a different way. He did it in the past.

And...when he starts doing it that way again, or at least in the ways of MB, he will go back to work....

Much will change when he finally starts down that path.

He is stuck in a vortex of his own making. You can reach in and offer him a hand out, but he has to stop the spinning...

LG

Chris:

One last line for you:

What he did there was NOT an Independent Behavior.

An IB would be him pulling the kid out of school. Without telling you. IB would be him showing up at the school and taking the child out of the school. IB would be your H doing something without addressing your concerns beforehand.

He walked into the room and stated that your son may have to stay home from school.

Sounds to me like he was trying to AVOID an IB right there. And you refused to listen to him.

Could he have worded his initial statement better? Sure. Could you have responded to his initial statement and asked him "Do you really think his allergies are bad enough for him not to go to school, and BTW, thank you for taking care of him while I was in the shower..."

Sure, you could have. But you didn't.

Think about that.

LG

PS: I can take this somewhere else if your interested.... I can't do anything else until after April 19th, however...

LG:

SH likened it to him being in a boat with one oar.

I cancelled our appt for this week and said I wasn't interested in rescheduling at this time.

I know, doesn't solve anything. He hasn't said 'boo' about my cancelling it either. He's probably relieved.

You don't think I need to go back to the couch, do you? Couldn't tell from your post.

If you lived here, you'd have a three week breather, BTW. May 11 is our IRS deadline. Federal only. State didn't extend.

Go figure.

OH, I hope some good things have happened in your day today. I am thinking of you.

Heh. GMTA.



I'm not LG, but I'll tell you that *I* think you need to establish your boundary, and as LA often says, with progressive reinforcement. Up to, and including moving back to the couch. You do NOT deserve to be AO'd at, and you do NOT need to continue putting up with it. If he does it, leave the room. If he follows you, leave the house. If he comes out to the car, go stay overnight at a friends. If he continues, move to the couch. He needs to get the message that you're serious. But in order for him to get that message, you have to BE serious, constant, and unwavering in your enforcement of your boundary that you will NOT stay present for AO's.

That's part of taking care of yourself.

Just my opinion, if you decide not to sleep with H, he sleeps in the car, or the couch or the friends house. You are supporting this family, do not leave your bed, child and bedroom. He is not holding his vows up right now.

Well, I can't say it's been a banner day, but it hasn't been terrible. How's that?

H was doing a lot of complaining about the job market, companies falsifying openings (he thinks), etc. I used to get in there and discuss this stuff with him but it really leads nowhere. He probably just wants to vent so I do my best to listen and nod and then try to change the subject or back out of the discussion, tactfully without him thinking I'm ignoring him.

Problem is, he usually thinks I'm blowing him off. Can't decide if it's something I'm doing or he's thinking. Lately, I've had to use the "I really need to get back to work" line. Does two things: one..he can't really refute it and two...well it reinforces that I'm working!

Haven't figured out how to draw the boundary about the job sitch yet. Don't want it to get ugly but it's coming down to:

find a job..i don't care if you are sweeping floors at wal-mart...or get out.

BTW, in the interest of O&H on my part, I told him that I didn't think I could be much of a wife to him at the moment, given everything else going on in life: finances, my job, stress, etc.

One thing I have been doing is making an assumption of action (doesn't that sound impressive??) Instead of asking H if he is going to look into something he mentions, I ask him what else he has found out. He told me Friday about some openings in Tampa. I asked, what did the website say? Did it specify how to apply? Of course, he hadn't looked at the site, but it got the point across without me asking him when he was going to do something. And sure enough, he did it. And I did too, since he said multiple openings. I don't ask him IF he's worked on his latest revisions. I ask him how his dissertation work went last night. Maybe it's just tricky wording, but it works better than the other way.

Maybe before long we can BOTH report that our H's have found great jobs!

LG, I defer to your extensive experience with MB and your clearly superior understanding.

I should have thanked my H for taking care of his own child - check!

I should have seen my husband's "I statement" as a great thing - check!

I should not have gotten angry in the first place (I am a perfect wifebot with no history of my husband pulling the okey doke on me) and then I should not have left the bathroom angry (but wait - I didn't leave the bathroom angry did I? I recall stating that I waited until I had calmed down, but that is an irrelevent little detail because you missed it.) Check & check!

Anyway - it was about the apology, not about MB although I did think of MB to talk myself down from being pissed and tried another approach. Wait... no I didn't, I used a valium instead - Check!

Thanks LG, I stand corrected.

OH, please ignore everything I've said in this thread because I am clearly unqualified to offer any advice, suggestions, or help to you.

Chris:

Gotcha.

If you react to me posting on an anonymous board like that.....

Imagine what you are doing in real life.

Something to think about.

Like I said. Maybe I can help you understand your WH a little better.

LG

Chris, you don't sound like yourself today. You are under a lot of stress. And you've got a lot of emotional triggers happening. Please take extra special care of yourself the next day or so.

FWIW, I don't think your husband was IBing with his statement. He was probably letting off steam about his frustration at being powerless over your son's allergy issues. I often get very angry in situations regarding the kids and say absoultely ridiculous, extreme things in the heat of frustration and powerlessness. Rude, insensitive things, to my husband, to my mom and dad, to my inlaws. I usually don't know that I'm doing it until after I say it, and that is exactly what I saw in the situation you described.

I think your DH was definitely LBing in the sense that he was having an angry outburst, not making a unilateral decision. And you DID react, at least initially, by shutting out. So what? Tomorrow you get a fresh clean slate and can do it differently. Even if he doesn't.

My comments on...
1.
You WERE blowing him off.
Topped off with a reminder that you are working and he is not.

Suggestion: Agree with him when he is right, and disagree with him when you think he is mistaken. A lot of companies ARE running ads for jobs they are not ready to fill. They are just using recruiters to pay for the advertising, gather the job market data, and tell them what they need to budget for the upcoming projects. Dishonest? Of course it is. Your question to Mr OurHouse should be, "How are you screening out those time-wasters and focusing on high percentage prospects?"

2. You cancelled your session with Steve Harley and your husband is probably glad you did. Maybe you wanted to cancel and are putting it off on your husband.

Suggestion:
Tell your husband, "We need to save the money this month with the job situation, so let's read Dr. Harley's articles on How to Design Your Own Plan, and get to work on that, so we can report some progress next session with SH." Make it clear to MrOH that he can be working on that during his break from job hunting.

Suggestion for your husband:
Job hunting on the computer is an asycnronous activity. You don't need to do it 8:30 to 5:00 while the recruiters are at work. Make some money during the day and do 3 hours of intense job hunting at night.

Suggestion for your husband:
If you aren't working during the day, volunteer.
Get out and meet people. Let them know you are looking, and you don't sit around waiting for the phone to ring. You like to work, have to stay busy, might as well be helping someone else. Join Rotary or some other groups, like Science Cafe, and rub elbows.

Retread, you are right, I did blow him off. I tried to do it nicely, but I did it nonetheless.

In my defense, I am stressed out and under the gun trying to justify my/my department's existence. The owner's son is being groomed for taking over eventually and I see a lot of doubt in his mind about whether or not this is working. And I smell a set-up which is why I have been engaged in major CYA activities this week. They are going to have to find some other objections than the ones they raised last week because at this point, I have them all covered and will continue to do so. But it's like catching a greased pig. As a manager, I have been here. If the determination is there to get rid of the department, they'll find some other tactic. Eventually, I will lose. I'm just scrambling to keep the job as long as possible until it's convenient for ME to quit (as in, finding another job!)

My husband knows all of this and knows that I do not want to take large blocks of time during the day where I can't account for my or my people's productivity. Ten minutes/15 minutes? Sure. But not 30/45/an hour...which talking with him can easily expand to.

As far as your suggestions for my husband...I know he knows all of this but always has a rebuttal. Doesn't want to be on the computer in the evening; that's his 'down time' (and my response in my head is that he doesn't need 'down time', he's home most days!) Same with the weekends.

Volunteering. I've mentioned this several times over the years and have been soundly shot down. Last weekend, I learned our church is going to be involved in Habitat for Humanity this summer. I am definitely signing on...I've always wanted to get involved with this. He just mentioned this morning that he thinks he might, too. This might be a D/J but I don't think he would have signed on if I hadn't. And he still might not in the end.

A few years back, Extreme Makeover/Home Edition came to town to rebuild a house. This is a small town; everyone knows everyone. At the time, H was doing a lot of carpentry and contracting. He was asked to attend a secret meeting with the EM team the night before the big bus rolled in. Key volunteers had been meeting with the ABC folks for weeks, since the family was chosen, to get all the 'behind the scenes' stuff done (it's amazing finding out how something REALLY works when it's up close and personal...Ty and his team do NOT do all the work..it's all done locally by volunteers).

Anyway, the key people got in touch with others here who had building/carpentry/painting, etc. experience. He decided not to go because he had "more important things to do like making money".

I can't tell you how disappointed I was that he felt his time was too valuable.

I wound up working the coffee tent and delivering food to all the workers. No, I wasn't part of the "in" crowd who were the major organizers/group leaders, and that was fine. (that's part of what upset H..he thinks this town is run by an insiders group who pick/choose who they associate with...my response? so what? associate with them when it benefits you and when it doesn't, don't.) I was just as happy to be a volunteer 'grunt' than to put in the major hours and time planning the thing.

As far as the next session w/ SH, what to do...well I'm conflicted. I snooped amongst his text messages last night. I didn't like what I found. A lot of stuff he hasn't been sharing with me. Nothing like an OW. But conversations with people about things derogatory about me, desire to get out of town, alone if necessary...stuff like that. So he's giving me MB lip service on one hand and on the other, a nagging suspicion of mine has been confirmed:

I think if he had a job ready and waiting, he'd dump me like a hot potato.

OH, talk is cheap. Look at his actions.

He may be badmouthing you or the situation to his buddies. But his actions are that he is at home with you. And he may be dragging his feet on the job thing for many reasons, including his conflicted feelings about the relationship.

yes, but what would he be doing IF he had a job?

(((OH)))
Thinking about you and your sitch today.
I know it sucks when your work situation is gloomy. I'm lucky with that right now--in a good place (busy, but for the most part pretty positive). But I've been where you are, too, and may find myself there again, so I feel your pain.
Sorry your H isn't gettin up and gettin to work.
IT
HAS
BEEN
A
VERY
LONG
TIME
SINCE
HE'S
EARNED
AN
INCOME.
Time to get busy, pal. No more excuses. Your family needs this.

His texting is a big lovebuster for sure. But here's the thing.

Guys who are in the habit of disrespecting their wives to their face are typically worse behind their back and those old habits are tough to eliminate.

Habits are like greasy water balloons. You grab hold of one and it either slips out of your hands all together, or the water in the side you're squeezing gets pushed to the part of the balloon that isn't getting squeezed. Until the balloon is popped and that poisonous behavior is released into the sewer, it's just going to move to another behavior.

They say in the 12 step program that until you've accepted that you're addicted to everything including chocolate, you're not in recovery yet. Until the addict deals with the feelings that he's/she's wanting to escape from, there is no recovery.

And your husband still has feelings he doesn't want to deal with.

How's his drinking these days?