I have a question at the end that I would appreciate opinions on...

I am the cheating husband. It was a very bad decision and the affair only lasted two weeks with me making out with the other woman twice maybe 6 days apart. No intercourse.

Obviously, my wife (married 17 years) was destroyed emotionally. She referred me to Marriage Builders and has had me read many articles and posts. I have been making changes in many parts of my life and doing everything that I told her I would do as well as the things she gave me to do. I don't find it difficult to do these things - I have been deeply embarrassed at my actions and while nobody at work knows what I did I constantly think "I wonder what they would do if they knew I was a cheater?".

We agreed to Radical Honesty, Joint Agreement as well as me doing many things to make up for my actions.

Because of my anxiety over my disgusting behavior I took an opportunity to check her email when she was away from her laptop. She had been emailing a religious counselor of sorts and I wanted to see what she was saying - and hopefully be able to better meet her emotional needs. Anyhow, I found an email from a close friend of the family - a married man. I didn't read it at the time, but I came back in the evening to see what it said and it was missing. Deleted from the inbox and deleted from the deleted emails (Hotmail account). I was able to un-delete the email and read that this other man said it had been a couple of weeks since they last spoke and he asked if she would call him.

To make a long story short. My wife had many small conversations with him over the last 2 months - they were mostly related to stuff at church and then some of them drifted to personal conversations. She had a few longer ( 30 minute to 1 hour) conversations. She called him 2 days after D-Day and spoke for 1 hour 15 minutes and again that same day for another 10 minutes. Two weeks later, when he asked her to call him, she called and they spoke for 1 hour 20 minutes. I found all this out be accidentally finding phone log files on our Comcast site when trying to set up a second cable box.

She lied about talking to him. I asked her many questions about when she would speak with him and how often. She always denied talking to him or said she had not spoken to him for a "long time". When I told her I knew she had spoken she still lied until I presented her with the log files. I was not angry (I don't have that right and I really believe that) and I did not accuse her of things. Rather, I asked her many questions. It took a day before her story stopped changing (she was nervous so I understand she may not have been accurate at first).

Her last two long conversations were about me... she did some crying on his shoulder and a lot of complaining about me.

After reading many things on marriage builders I have the following question -

Is it possible that my wife was heading in a dangerous direction?

She says she had no romantic or sexual thoughts or feelings with this man and I believe her. She does not believe it was a problem - even hiding it from me. From what I read it sounds like she was heading towards an emotional affair.... is this correct?

(as a side note, before the phone call stuff ever came out I told her I thought she was abrasive to me the last couple of months... short with me and not nice... she denied this very strongly, but I now wonder if her talking with this other man was impacting our relationship.)

I will be setting up marriage counseling this week through Marriage Builders.

Thank you!

Scott

Yes, it was completely inappropriate and WAS headed right towards an emotional affair. I would also suggest you call his wife and let her know what you know. Your W shouldn't be talking to a male friend about her problems.


Was this a workplace affair? And if so, do you still work with the OW?

My affair was not a workplace....maybe worse, it was with someone from church. Mine is fully out...

Thanks for your response.

Scott

I am the wife, and here is my side of the story-

1- This man has been my friend for the last 3 to 5 years. I WAS closer to him before. He was single and I helped him to find a girl, to date, to get married. After he got married, we did not talk much. We respected each others' marriage and have always kept our boundary and never ventured our conversation/ relationship to any suggestion, implication of any kind feeling towards one another. Even though my husband did not know I occasionally spoke to him on the phone, he knows well that I spoke to this man at times. He thought I spoke to him at church. Was it more appropriate to speak to him alone in person or alone on the phone?

2- I know very well that hiding those recent 2 phone calls was wrong, was inappropriate. But at the time I was not sure if I was staying with my husband or leaving him because of his affair. That was one of the reasons why I wanted to keep those info to myself. I reached out to not only this man, but 3 more persons. I was not in a position to be able to reach out to anyone(supposed to hide it from all we associate it, who are all from the church we go to). One was my brother, one was my high-school friend and 2 were from this church that we attend ( this man was one of the 2), this church is also where my husband met and spent much time with the whore who pretended to be my friend and slept with my husband. And then, this church, giving me no support, asked me 'strongly" to keep this all burden to myself.

3- By calling and talking to this man about our problem, I broke my H's confidentiality and was wrong about that. The 2nd time I spoke to this man, I told him much and was ready to pack my stuff and drive my kids back to my mom. Oh, also, I can't tell my parents about this affair. They did not want me to marry my husband, somehow back then 17 years ago my Dad knew that one day he would cheat on me. I stepped out of my culture, my family circle to marry this man. If my parents knew about this, they probably would support me to come back with them and our chance of reconciliation would be over.

This serious last phone call I had with this man was over 2 weeks after my H's affair came out. And why I was so livid? Here is the story - We set rules and restriction on his behaviors and what he can't do. Guess what, 2 weeks into agreeing to new rules, he broke it. He went about behind my back online doing who-knows-what when I was sleeping at 1:30 in the morning. It was the very first rule we set as this affair came out and when we decided to give this marriage another chance- the rule is, when I go to bed, his computer needs to be off. We believe that the affair is a result of many things, one among that is his casual approach / view on inappropriate online viewing, including porn. Our church strictly prohibits this, and he was a church leader who sat on the judgment seat to judge other adulteries. Beside, one of my biggest emotional need that I fought to be fulfilled for 17 years is that he goes to bed at the same time with me. Was I ever success? For 2 weeks after the affair! and then it went right back to how it was that night. How could he look into my eyes and said he did not know, and that he forgot this rule? This is a complete love-buster to me. That morning after I found out he broke our rule, I took my wedding ring off and wanted to move on with my life without him. It was natural for me to reach out to my friend.

4- Now looking back and trying to figure out why I called this man the last few months ( I did not notice that I contacted him more often - I always had his numbers for the last at least 4 years and called as I needed something- ) I realized now that our marriage relationship was rough the last few months, I cried out for emotional support many times and was repeatedly dismissed in many ways, I was the one who was always wrong including my major problem with the woman that he chose to work with at church, who ended up having an affair with him. There was many signs, there was many warnings, and I was always the one who was accused of having the problem, not her. Another burdening situation when a close friendship from church fell apart. My husband knew I was on the right, but he pressured me to suck it up and reach out and take back the friend who offended me and hurt me. I refused to, we had many talks, until we got into a fight then he backed off. I was hurt and was received no comfort, no support from my H. And guess, what, I was not wrong in any of these specific situations. The last few months, He absolutely went out of his way to defend and support whosoever BUT ME, to the point that he shut me out of his operation so I did not have any opinion on what he did. Did I have an emotional affair? I don't think so, but I probably looked outside of our marriage for emotional support! When that support comes from a female friend or a brother or a gay friend, it's a friendship, when the support comes from a general male friend, it's a emotional affair? I am confused and obviously defending myself, but I fully acknowledge that if I continue to reach out to this person and cry on his shoulder (figuratively), I am heading to a dangerous path and it is completely stupid, but at this point, my conscience is clear because so far I did not cross any boundary, any verbal/ physical appropriateness and did not develop any attraction for him

If you have read this far, I greatly appreciate. This is the first time I posted anything this long, this confusing and complicated, but I guess, to fully understand a situation, we need details, even though they are boring!

Thank you again!

MD

Thank you!

Hi MD, thanks for weighing in! What you describe is EXACTLY how most affairs begin. We see them here every day. They start as opposite sex friendships where both parties talk about their private lives.

And these are usually good people who say they "would never have an affair!" [they are the ones with poor boundaries] It starts off when one need is met in the "friendship."

When one need is met outside of marriage, the others are soon to follow. Getting emotional support from a male outside of your marriage is how affairs begin. They are disasterous to marriage and should be avoided.

p.s. did you change churches so your H does not see the OW? And if she is married, does her husband know?

And please check out Dr Harley's article about opposite sex friendships:
Are "Friends" a Threat to Your Marriage?
By Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

Changing churches is difficult - the other family is going elsewhere for now. It is unlikely we will run into each other. The husband knows... he and my wife have spoken.

Thanks,

Scott

First, please start your own thread. And if you can't help but to get defensive and argumentative, do not read your husband's thread.

Do not post "your side" on your husband's thread.

His thread will NOT be about YOU, but about what HE can do to improve THE MARRIAGE YOU BOTH SHARE.



Neither when your conversations involve bringing up your husband's shortcomings to another man.

When you are doing this, you are stating; "Here are the vulnerabilities in my marriage, and the weak points in my Love Bank which can be exploited."

Also, lying is rather rude. Don't feign honesty here - your husband had no idea how often, how long, or about what you were seeking the comfort of another man for, because when he found out it bothered him.

And you KNEW something was wrong about it, because you KEPT IT FROM HIM.

Just as he kept his adulterous activity from you.


Here's what MB will tell you; your husband's affair should be exposed to your family, close friends, and the church. You shouldn't have been left to "keep this burden" all by yourself.

However, that does not make seeking the comfort and council of men who are not your husband acceptable.


After 17 years out of your parents' home, and marriage vows to your husband that you have kept intact, I certainly hope mom and dad aren't making your decisions for you.

Not only would I tell them, but if they did not support your adult decision to stay - and the conditions which that occurs under, which you will learn here - I would shutter any anti-marriage rhetoric they may utter.


Welcome to Marriage Builders. We work from today and move forward.

You have a whole bucket of resentment, and well earned, for your husband. You also have poor and reactive boundaries with men, as your husband had with women.

Certainly, punishing your husband for his Love Busters by toeing the adultery line yourself isn't a very effective strategy, is it?


Yes. Yes you did. Which is why you began calling him more and more. Because you allowed him to meet your emotional needs - you were having intimate conversations with this man. You were sharing your hurt, your shattered hopes and dreams. And he listened, and that was attractive, and you called him and you talked for hours.

Dear woman, you should be recieving the support of the betrayed, and you show up with the fogbabble of a wayward.

Your husband behaved despicably by betraying your love, your trust, and his very own vows...


THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO COMMIT ADULTERY YOURSELF.

And, sister, you were 2 "there, there" phonecalls away.


Expose your husbands affair to the appropriate places.

Quit looking to men for support..

Read up. Order Surviving An Affair if you haven't yet.

Start your own thread.

STAY OFF OF YOUR HUSBAND'S THREAD.

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

One more note MD;


I said a long time ago that I was vulnerable to infidelity, that given the wrong circumstances, I would cheat on my wife.


My wife told me I was horrible, and that she would never cheat.

Since it's not in my sig line, please guess; which one of us had an affair?

I gotcha. That is fine as long as one of you no longer goes to the same church. When you say "for now," it makes this sound temporary. What about later?

Wow wow wow... holdHerHand,

I posted here upon H's invitation. I AM NEW!!!! Any wiggle room for my mistake to post on his thread?

I certainly will not post on this thread any more.

Secondly, please DO NOT TREAT ME AS IF I HAD AN AFFAIR!!! THERE IS BOUNDARY THERE, EVEN FOR YOU TO RECOGNIZE. I knew I was venturing to a wrong, dangerous path, there is no defense about it!


I am asked strictly by the church leader NOT to share with anyone, and that is why it's so difficult.

Regarding my parents, isn't it obvious to you who made decision? My point is that even the people I am close to the most, I can't go to for help in my crisis.

Again, sorry for being here!

Then stop being defensive. HHH's advice is spot on. If you admit that you were heading in the wrong direction, then there is nothing to be defensive about.

No problem at all. Welcome to Marriage Builders. Please start your own thread so that you can be helped effectively.

Our entire social lives and much of our children's social lives are centered upon church activity and the friends there. The OW and her family are attending the same building, but at a different time. There shouldn't be any overlap. My wife and I are looking for some things to do outside of church... not quitting church, but trying to find something that we enjoy together and can talk about.

I think if the church were not a part of the equation our marriage would heal quicker. There are still some rough times ahead from the church standpoint. This will impact my marriage.

Also, I told my church leader about my wife's private phone calls with the man. He warned us about something like this right after D-Day. He warned me about not contacting the OW or giving up and he specifically warned my wife about the temptation to get even or to get drawn into someone she would regret. With this in my mind I had a meeting (not planned by me) with this church leader. It was a day after finding out about the hidden phone calls and I was feeling hurt (I know, I don't deserve to feel that way).

My wife feels deeply betrayed by me telling the church leader. It almost seems like this has brought us back to D-Day +1 in terms of how she is feeling and how angry she is at me.

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my question.

Both of you need to "foresake all others" and work the MB program.

Do NOT read each others threads!

I'm no expert nor am I a veteran here but these two things I believe in very strongly.

MTH...If the Church is going to be part of the problem then it is time to find a new Church home. I regularly attend Church and understand the social aspect of it very well, however, Church is foremost about worship and socializing second (or probably further down the list).

New churches can be found, new social circles can be found/formed. Your marriage is much more important then either of these. Having to make this move is a consequence of your actions.

Zeke351

Right now, my wife is *very* upset that I told the church leader about her phone calls. It seemed important at the time... especially as he warned both of us. In no way did I try to deflect my own much worse actions. I have been very clear about that. I only wanted to ensure that all things were on the table.

We had agreed to Radical Honesty, but when she lied to me about the phone calls (a dozen lies to cover her actions) I became frightened that she didn't really want to work things out. Since then she told me that Radical Honesty was only for me. I didn't know that, I don't have a problem with it, but I just didn't know it.

She now feels betrayed and I don't know what to do.


There is a LOT of that floating around.

Thanks for your comments.

MTH, I am so glad that you have embraced the concept of radical honesty so quickly and so completely. In that case, wouldn't you agree that honesty about your affair be extended to your children and other family members? This way, your wife can receive the support she needs. And the more people who know, the more people to hold you accountable.

Giving your children false explanations for the source of tension in their home teaches them dishonesty. Children can deal with the truth; they cannot deal with dishonesty.

Dr Harley recommends exposure to the family and most especially your children.

Uh, no... radical honesty is for both of you. A solid MB marriage practices honesty and openness on both sides. I haven't read your whole thread yet, but this just caught my eye.

Gonna go read your thread now.

Nevermind, I see that ML is on top of it... can't get much better than that!

P.s. MTH, you do realize that in order to recover your marriage, there should never be ANY contact again with the OW for life? Even if you have to leave that church. Additionally, the conditions that enabled you to have this affair in the first place should be eliminated. For example, if you were ministering to women or have opposite sex friendships, those practices should be eliminated.