So, as it turns out, this really happens in real life. It's not just on the "daytime dramas". After 20 years of marriage and 4 children, my husband's conscience is bothering him and he has decided to "come clean" with me. He has finally become a Christian and wants to be the man God wants him to be. It's something I have prayed for, but it comes at a high price for me and for our marriage, as I am now learning some very painful information. From the beginning of our marriage, he recently confessed, he had a sexual addiction, characterized by use of porn and visits with prostitutes. (I always considered myself fairly intelligent -- how I never knew about any of this is a mystery to me!). He swears he quit that behavior about 13 years ago, but he now admits that I was right all those years when I accused him of ogling every female in eyesight. He also admits that I was right about lots of other things, too, all of which point to the fact that he was generally uncommunicative, inattentive, unavailable, and unloving as a husband and father. Twice, in fact, we've had counseling to try to improve those very problems that have plagued our marriage -- imagine my bitterness now as I realize that he allowed me to suffer that excruciating pain, all the while living a double life!
To give credit where it is due, he has set out to change and is, for the most part, indistinguishable from his former self. He's had a few small setbacks, but overall he's truly a changed person. He offers to do whatever it takes, for as long as it takes, to earn back my trust and to see us through this. He wants to try to do this without having to go back to counseling, but he has not said he won't go (we live in a rural area and would have to drive 2 hours one way for counseling).
I do find it ironic that now I have this man who wants to be everything I desire him to be, but I'm too tired, weary, leary, hurt, even resentful to appreciate that very much right now. In fact, I am having visions of starting over on my own -- suppose I could set goals for myself again and become my own person, walking away from the disappointment of having my hopes and dreams killed by another person.
Truthfully, I never know how I'm going to feel from one day to the next. One day, I feel we will make it because I love him and he's trying so hard. Another day, I think I'm an idiot to even think about staying with him one more minute. Like no woman with one ounce of self esteem should stay in a marriage like mine! Then again, I've invested a lifetime, literally, in this man. Day three and I'm thinking we separate and think it over. You name it, I've felt it.
I think I've forgiven the early infidelity, but I am still pained by it and will always be, I'm sure. I've asked him a million questions about it, and I've forced him to go into painful detail about it. I think I deserve to know, and it has helped me to know the details of his nasty little trysts. I do suspect there's a lot I don't know still. He says that's all, but then again, I don't suppose his track record for honesty is going to win him any awards, is it?
More irony. In the early days, I was a little cutie. I weighed 100 lbs when we married. Today, I weigh a sight more than that. And NOW he wants only me? Huh??
What hurts most? It depends on my frame of mind and what details I notice at any given time. Yesterday, I could have sworn he did a double take at a young woman in the grocery store. He says he doesn't think he did, but I think he did. Should we be having this discussion? Do I even want to??? Next, will I be checking his cell phone calls? If I can't trust him, do I want him?

Can someone say something to help me with perspective? Can anyone relate? Will I survive this?

Papermom,

First off you are in the right place here at MB! and second I am sorry you find yourself here.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

To answer your questions your "feeling"s are pretty darn normal after finding out about H's A! and yes there is HOPE!!!

REad here and follow all the principals and buy the books! If you do you will be amazed at the changes you can make in your M.

To drive 2 hrs. one way to counseling would be quite a feat for any couple! They do offer "telephone" counseling here. The Harley's will actually call you and H on the phone and do the counseling that way!!! I would most definetly give that option a big YES!

You will after reading and reading find that you are NOT alone in your feelings. The "should I stay" feelings are totally normal and don't make any hasty decisions!!! Most of us Women are able to "stay" and work on our M's. We are just normally wired to "save what we love"....

YOU can make it and YOU can survive!! Either with your H or without....hopefully WITH!

There are though some women like some men who can NOT get over an A. I think you are perhaps NOT one of them....but one who can.

I am now 11 months in recovery and still have some really "dark moments" but they are fewer and further in between now.

My M is stronger than I can ever remember and I have been M for 24 yrs.! Been "together" for 28~!
So.........THERE IS HOPE! and your M can actually be better than before!

Blessings,
Atruheart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Papermom,
It is sad to hear someone else in a similar situation. Do you have a good support group or someone you can talk to? I seem to have lost a few friends as they get tired of the ups and downs. Some of your story is similar. My husband came clean with his 2 one night stands awhile after becoming a christian. It was tough, but I know the secret was keeping us apart for those years before he told. We were moving along so well for years. But he recently became very distant. And we are dealing with empty nest and wondering what direction to go next. I have been sensing his distance and have finally gotten him to admit he has had 2 emotional affairs recently with women he sees at work. This has rocked my world. I actually thought that this was a part of our past. We have been serving the Lord together. But with his schedule he had no accountability partner. And we got too busy serving to take in a small group class or bible study. I have no idea what to do next. He wants us to work out. But isn't sure about doing any counseling. Or even listening to a book on tape while he drives. As long as we don't talk about it, it is fine. But I want to know who she is and some of the details too. One of the women is from our little town. He still sees her a couple times a week. And has wanted to stop in to see the others there. So sometimes I want to work on this and make this work. But I am wondering when or if it will happen again. I am looking through phone bills ect. And thinking I deserve someone that wants to be with me. What do we do?
So I recommend your husband and maybe with your pastors help find someone that can be his accountalibilty partner. Let them ask how he is handling his thoughts and emotions. Occasionally you can see how things are going. Yet not have to be the one doing all the checking. Read the books mentioned. Take care of yourself. I am eating well, exercising, reading and doing fun things.
Gather as much info as you can to help yourself.
Today I head off with my daughters to visit my son at college for a few days. I am so looking forward to it. And will pray H is too busy to stop in and see her.
hang in there. i do believe marriages are worth fighting for.
d
45, h 45
married 26 years
25d, 23s, 20d

Thanks for coming.

Sounds like your H has had time to deal with this, but it's all SO fresh for you, so you're going to go through some tough times...it gets easier.

This is great that he has stopped the behavior, has "come clean", and is willing to work on the M.

You're right, you are worn out, been fighting against the current what seems like your entire M and thought you were going with the flow.

It may be a good idea to say something to your H like...

"Hon, thank you for telling me, it explains quite a bit for me, but it is hurtful for me to hear. I'm going to need some time to get through this. I may need to know more details, but not right now, I will ask when I'm ready. This will affect me and our M, but I'm hoping much good will come of this. I have been on a website and have learned that it may take 2 years or longer for us to recover from this, during which we may have some pretty rough times. I am tired off all the fruitless giving I have offered throughout our M, I am angry about the wasted time, I am hurt by rejection and betrayals, and I am afraid for what could have happened (lost our M). Give me time, hugs, and conversation..."

You can offer this website to him, there are many WS that offer their insight here, and it may be a good release for him.

Come here often, there is much to process. No 2 stories are alike, but there are similarities in the way we feel. After my D-Day I was convinced my M was gone, we could never recover. I decided to use my H like he had used me. If I needed a hug and to hold him, I would, no matter where or what he was doing. If I needed to tell him right then how hurt I was, and to cry, I did. Then I found this website and learned about my part in allowing my M to muck up (not that I caused the A to happen, but I helped create an environment where an OW looked pretty good to my H.) THis isn't the case with sexual addiction though.

There are many women on here who have had to deal with their H's SA (Drucilla). How is he handling it? 12 step program? Accountability group? Coming clean with you is one of the 12 steps...

I think my H was borderline SA, he's convinced he's not, but he turns to porn and masturb. when he's troubled (like a drug...)

There are some GREAT books out there by Patrick Carnes about SA, I found one at my library.

No matter what your plan, we're here for you!

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: StillHereMakingIt ]</small>

Forgot to mention, probably one of hte more important things for you to do right now is to get in to see a good Counselor.

Has your H agreed to see a M counselor too?

Wow! Affirmation -- what an amazing and wonderful feeling it is! Blessings, Atruheart! It's interesting to learn this about myself, that sometimes I believe I will probably stay with my husband, but after all the years of thinking there was something wrong with me, it's kind of intriguing to imagine starting over as a mature woman with possibilities, albeit I suspect I would never trust another man ever again. But, I have no doubt that my husband would go on and marry again and now be a wonderful husband to someone. How ironic would that be? How jealous would I be??
dranders, I do have a couple of good friends who know and have prayed with me, but I am concerned about "wearing them out" with all of the ups and downs of my own emotions. Also, I know that they don't fully understand this. In fact, one of them has expressed that it was "so long ago and he's changed." As for my H, he's doing a lot of reading (Christian books -- Arterbaum) related to this topic, which he feels takes the place of any counseling any other man in his situation might need. As for an accountability partner, no, he doesn't have one and there's none on the horizon in our small town. That's a dangerous idea, indeed, privacy-wise. However, he does have a prayer group that might help in a small way. Thank you, dranders, and God bless you as well. I'd like to share more with you, actually with any of you.

And, StillHereMakingIt, I am so very grateful for your post also! You also wrote many things that are helpful to me. The two-year time frame, though daunting, gives me a realistic idea of what I'm up against. The words you suggested for my husband are basically what I've said to him already. I have thought of going to counseling alone, and I still may do so. I've thought of telling him I do want him to go with me. He will if I say so, but I'll have to say so. Still, we went twice before and he wasn't honest, so I feel defeated already on that plane. And there's the 2-hour drive one way. . .
I just don't know. I feel too tired, really, to deal with it most of the time. That's normal, right?

I hope it is normal. Our stories sound a lot alike...I, too, find it hard in a rural setting to find and schedule counseling. Add to that prominent public postions and I wonder how our WSs can think no one knows. But, we do have a lot to fight for. Let's do it!

I'm so sorry to hear you're in the same unbelievable boat. I also recently found out. The A was 14 years ago. He has been a wonderful husband ever since and before. He says it was only once, but trusting is not what is coming easily now. He didn't "come clean on his own accord." Exposure was threatened by an ex-business partner who was trying to hurt our marriage because of a horrible partnership dispute. He told me then because he didn't want me to hear it from someone else. I, like you am devastated and am still trying to sort out feelings even tho it was so long ago, but still the most awful and real betrayal - The pain is blinding. I have known just over a month, but I can see it's going to take a very long time to get over this. I am learning that his A has triggered many insecurities and issues that I have. The work has only just begun.

He is almost totally cooperative, loving, sorry and only occasionally frustrated. I, on the other hand, am up and down like a rollercoaster. I was really bad today, seeing the porno movie of him and her all day long. I keep pulling new things out of him. Their familiarity, his willingness to risk US. Tonight, he said "She was "sex" for me." meaning she represented all things sexual. Wasn't that my place? And he withheld this info for 14 years. I need to hear everything, so they don't own any secrets. I hammeredf him hard. He was so angry with me and impatient really for teh first time. Awful. It's so hard. I really do feel for you. So many of the folks here are dealing with ongoing A's. I can't imagine as I see how raked up I am over this one from 14 years ago.

Your comment about how you looked then and now was so right on. I am vulnerable to that one too. Although I was pregnant at the time, I'm 48 now and although still attractive for my age, I am frustrated in my new worries about how I look, after what HE DID! Go figure! Shouldn't he be the worried one?

I hope you can save your marriage. I am trying but it's the hardest work I've ever done and today I didn't do a very good job. Staying together and building a better marriage seems the best way if you still love him. The warts are going to take a bit of getting used to tho. For me, accepting that my fairy tale is over is very difficult. Best of luck.

Lilybelle, trusting is the most difficult task before us, isn't it? Tonight I expressed to my husband that I have great fear that I'll bear this incredible pain only to find out that:
a. he hasn't told me everything and there will be more revelations later, or
b. there will be a relapse at some time when I least expect it, and we will re-live this horrible nightmare.

You wrote, "I really hammered him hard." I know that's not nice, but you know what? Right now, I can't find much sympathy in my heart for these guys. They should reach over here and feel me if they want to really know what hurt feels like.

I agree also with your statement of empathy for folks who are dealing with current and ongoing adultery. I also recognize those who are dealing with an emotional affair where the spouse actually connects with the other person. My husband preferred (acc'd to his story) the disconnected company of prostitutes. Either way, the pain is intense, the blood runs red, and the spirit lies in a heap. I simply do not know what to do with it all.
By the way, I'm still browsing around for a legend so I can make the little info chart everyone else has at the bottom of their posts. I'll find it, I'm sure!
Thank you so much for your reply. The connection to people who validate me and understand me is like medicine. Today, reading these responses to my posts, has given me the best day in a month since THAT day. I am grateful.

Morning Papermom,

I feel like you and I could talk for hours. I'm not too articulate in the a.m., but I wanted you to know you can make that signature in "my profile" which you'll see at the top of this page. I'll post to you later.

I really hope today is a better one for us both.

OK, I'm awake. I don't know if this will help you at all. I wrote it early this am - around 2. I did hammer him, and started reading again. It's what I do now. Anyway - here's where my writing took me last night.

I’ve know now for 51 days. The Affair lasted 90.
I had a horrible day. I cried a ton. I’m so tired – yet I can’t let go of my pain.
Why is this so hard?

Is it because…..

“She was sex” to him. His quote of the day. OUCH

I see them naked together – relaxed and familiar with each other ….and their mutual sexual excitement, ouch This is a BIG PROBLEM

I can’t believe he risked me for her – the biker slut, oops – the NICE biker slut. The adorable biker slut. The hot biker slut. She was worth THIS PAIN?

She was what I wasn’t, and could never be– little, tight, blond, sexy, pretty, adorable OUCH

I was growing our child and felt lonely and needed some, no, ALL of the effort he was giving to her. It was MINE! Driving to her house, going out for condoms, keeping secrets – effort-energy-attention. Why was she worth it and not me? OUCH

So – Here’s a question:

Do I want to be with him?
Who is he?

Do I love him enough to recover? It’s so much work.

Is my ego too bruised? Is my pride too big to accept this? Bigger than my love? Bigger than my marriage?

These are serious questions.

I’m so involved with this massive hurt, his love isn’t getting through. Is that because I don’t trust him anymore? Can I allow his love to be meaningful again? To make me feel good and soothe the jagged ripped flesh that was my heart?

He tells me how sorry he is, how much he loves me CONSTANTLY.
But – sadly - He can’t do enough. It’s not coming thru.
Is that because of a lack of love from me?

Is my wanting to be loved more important than anything? Is my NEED the invisible elephant in our bedroom? Is my history of being dumped more important than his real love (assuming it’s real.)

Now that I know that his love for me at the time was such a fragile thing / not true love / do I still want him? Can I accept his faults – his choice of a selfish pursuit of personal pleasure over loving and protecting me and our unborn child? Am I ready to accept the flawed version of my husband – the real version, or do I hold on / choose / marry my new reality - the destroyed fairy tale? Do I choose the broken heart / victim role and throw away the real thing?

Do I love him or was I with him because he loved me, and now that the love is clearly not the fairy tale, Do I still want him?

Do I not feel deeply enough for him, care enough about him and for him to let go of this crime? I hope I can.

When will he be punished enough? Can it ever equal my pain? Is that what I need? Is that what I’m waiting for? I can never erase his pleasure in her .That really happened. He allowed it , put effort into it. Why doesn’t it matter that it’s over?

Is my passion to be loved so huge that I can’t see past this crime / sin / abandonment to get to the part where he loves me now? It’s been over for 14 years. He wants to stay married. Do I?

I guess I'm having a really mad stage right now. When I read your pain, I think you've suffered enough, and I wonder why you stick around for more. Why do I? I always said I'd leave a man in a heartbeat at the first sign of abuse or adultery. I suppose that's another scary revelation: here I am facing one of those, and I'm still here. So, what does that say about me? Where's my self-esteem? Am I so weak that I need to stay with a man who risks the possibility of bringing a disease into our bed? the chance of ending up in jail for soliciting? who clearly has not valued me or his children enough to keep his vows? who can take advantage of another person's weakness as I believe is the case with prostitution?

I am sick; I am angry; I am wounded. But, I am in love. Still, will I be able to stay with him and convince myself that doing so is a character strength rather than a pitiful weakness?

Or!!!

It could mean you have enough self-esteem to endure this and recover from it. It could mean you are not weak but very strong and committed. It could mean that you are a forgiving and compassionate human being. It good mean...many good things as well.

Perhaps some reading here about affairs and how they occur will help you two. You are very unsettled now, as you should be. Don't make ANY decisions while you are in this state. Give this time and have patience with yourself and your H's.

God Bless,

JL

papermom,
i think we are all benefitting from realizing we have been in the same boat. I know I have felt this wouldn't of happened if only i had been...
And while these were emotional affairs, it has brought the other sexual ones right back into my life. We live in a rural area too. So who all knows about what has been going on.
I spent the ride home from visiting my son praying for answers to what I should do. I had tried a few times to call my husband and he wasnt returning my calls. Without saying anything to my daughters I was getting rather upset. So I asked God to give me a sign as to what was I to do. Did i need to be suspicious and is this a lost cause. Do I need to walk away. It was only minutes later I got a call. My husband was at a major hospital with chest pains. This seems to be my sign to stay with him. And I have no idea what is next. When I left him he was resting and will do more tests tomorrow.
At the same time there are 2 phone calls to my house made while i was gone. From local numbers that were unlisted when i checked. I just hate this.
It makes me scared thinking he might decide life is to short for this marriage as it is work. And I still have no idea what I even want. I want answers. I want him to love me. And to do whatever it takes to avoid this and any other women that make him distracted. I want to not feel like if only i was more...
Lilybelle, my h first affairs were while i was pregnant with our son. but i never knew until it was 17 years later.
Thank you all for posting. I am not in this alone and wont have to worry that i am giving too much to my friends. I can learn from each of you
i am praying my h will seek out marriage counseling.

dranders, I hope that your husband's health is better tomorrow. Your post concerns me because it sounds like you are taking too much responsibility for his infidelity. "If I were more. . ." What?? Have you been faithful to him? If so, was it because he was a perfect specimen of a husband, or was it because of your own honor and commitment and love?
I certainly haven't been a poster child for the perfect wife, but I've done nothing to deserve my husband's infidelity, and I'll never take one ounce of blame for it, nor should you, in my opinion. You were not created for such as that.
Blessings!