For those who have viewed my post before this is another issue along with the previous post.
My W was talking about finanices and how it was stressing her out. She mentioned something to the idea of me doing more money wise.
Just a side note. She knows how much I make a year even before we got married. I haven't recieved a raise from my job due the economy @ present and the events of Sept. 11th.
I do what I can and than some. I have done the "robbing Peter to pay Paul" to keep her happy, but it still isn't good enough.
I told her where my finanices was going since we've been married, as I have learned to be responsible on that wise.
Last Year around August she (W) asked to borrow some money to help out a friend, fine. Sept. earlier Oct. my W if she could borrow some money as she needed to take her kids for some appt's, fine, no problem.
We alternate who is doing the food shopping. If my W shops this month, than I do next month.

W did the food shopping in Oct. last year. November it was my turn. She didn't have enough money as she wanted to give one of the kids a B-day Party. She asked me to help her out with the party as her X-H didn't help, fine. I still did the food shopping as well. I didn't mind helping her out w/party. Dec. comes it's her turn to do shopping. She didn't have the money as she over did it in getting the kids christmas gifts. I in turn had to do the shopping as well as my own x-mas shopping. She didn't have her half of the rent for the month so that left is short. I had to get 2 online pay day loans to do the food shopping and finish my x-mas shopping. We pay our rent at the end of the month.
End of Dec. comes, I tell the Landlord that I fell short this month to take the heat off my wife. I say that because the place we stay was hers before we got married. I would have gotten "our" own place, but she wanted a big wedding I couldn't afford to do both. Unknown to me before we got married, but revealed to me by the LandLord that my W owes over $5 grand in back rent & interest after living there for just about 3 yrs. An agreement was made by her & Landlord in that Sept. to pay a certain amt. for back rent and continue to pay present rent. She didn' have enough for present rent. Landlord gave me a break as I told him I Dec. rent would be paid 1st week Jan.
Dec. got paid with 1 check in Jan. Although, there are interest on pay day loans which hurt my finances for the month. My W also got a couple of those loans and paying the interest back. Jan. Rent paid @ end of month.
Feb. I was still short due to holiday seasons loans. W paid car insurance, which I usually pay. I was greatful for her help.
March she was short finanically, why because she got more online loans. By this time my loans were paid off. She didn't have enough money for her share of rent. Due to bills I had that month, I went a got a online loan again to help out. Now here we go with the interest again.
April. W couldn't do all shopping, I got another loan to help out. I was going to pay off the loan from last month. However, her online came due at same time I had already paid the loan. Her paying her loan back left her short again, so I had to get another loan.
To make this VERY LONG STORY SHORTER By May I was up to 5 online loans trying to help her out.

IMPORTANT-MY W RECIEVES JUST UNDER $1200 PER MONTH IN CHILD SUPPORT.

Lately, we haven't been running on all cylinders. With the help of some good friends here at MB I had to relearn some things to help make my marriage from my end better.

Ealier this week my W has been stressing about my and mentioning again about my lack of financial support <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .

ON TOP OF THE CHILD SUPPORT MY W WORKS AND BRINGS HOME ABOUT $1050 PER MONTH. I BRING HOME $1242 PER MONTH. HER 2 INCOMES W/SUPPORT AND HER INCOME ALMOST DOUBLES MINE.

I attempted to explain in an nice, non provoking, non projecting way as to where my financies have gone since we've been married.
I mentioned the events of last August/Sept. and that she asked to "BORROW" money, Interupted "she owes me money". I used the word OWE, she got upset. She told me she forgot about the money she "borrowed". She said she doesn't know how it was that much, but that "I'm gonna pay it back" with an attitude. I told her at this point I didn't want the money, that I was just telling her where my monies where going and the effects. She got very silent. I had to go to an scheduled event so I told her "I Love you", she responded the same.
That night when I came home and got in the bed as she was almost asleep. I told her Goodnight. Now we usually kiss after we say that, well we didn't.
Next morning, Good morning, after that is usually a kiss, not this morning. Come home after work usually it "hey/hi" and than a kiss, no kiss. that night I had a scheduled event so I went. When I returned home it was late, but she was still kinda up. I said goodnight, she responded the same, again no kiss no hug no laying next to/on me like she has done before this situation started.
Now, she gets up this morning I again say good morning she responds the same and still no kiss, hug anything.
She gets ready for work and as she leaves she tells me I have to talk to you, as she leaves.
She calls me @ home from her office while I get ready for work. She tells me that she is upset and very bothered that I mentioned the events last August/Sept. and She hates that I said the word OWE. I told her again, I was just trying to explain to her where my finances go. Now, she say I never thought I would feel this way, but I will never ask you for anything again. W continues to say I will pay all rent, my kids etc.
Now, I'm not allowed to be a really parent, but yet I feel she wants to use me for financial help as she sees fit. HELP MB!!!!!!!!!!!!
Neu

Neu,

You probably know that money is the #1 topic leading to marriage problems. I do think you two need to talk. I suspect that she is having a hard time dealing with the fact that money is tight. You also need to be honest with her about your feelings.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but from what you have said on this post and your other one, you feel your sole purpose in this marriage is to provide her money. It seems that she has commented multiple times about you needing to contribute more. It seems you have not explained to her what you have been doing (the loans to keep things afloat).

This may not be a correct perception, on your part, but it is one I would come to as well, given what you have said here.

I also think that more than handling the kids, you need to really discuss money management. The big wedding when back rent is owed is not smart. Expenditures at a levell where everything is paycheck to paycheck with bridge loans is not a good way to live either. You two need to POJA some ideas and strategies to sort out what to do.

Let her talk and express her feelings tonight, but I think it is time you did the same. The artform is to do it without LB'ing her. Her playing games (I view what she is doing with the non-responses to you as games. Yeah I am a guy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) is not going to get the job done. It is NOT communications, and it is not productive. She needs to know that.

She probably also has to realize that you feel like a visitor in this situation. Now perhaps she views your financial contribution as commitment on your part. You might want to discuss that possibility as well.

I must go, but do think about these things.

God Bless,

JL

Have you thought about merging your finances and setting up a budget? Many banks will offer free budget counseling. Each paying half the rent or swapping months on grocery shopping would NEVER work here. It doesn't sound like a married couple's finances, but that you are still just living together. You are a partnership now.

For some couples this works fine, but this is apparantly not the case for you, and again, it wouldn't have worked for us.

When you married her you accepted she had kids. My son's SD (sperm donor as I call him) rarely sends any support, and my H considers him as his own. We've been married almost a year (I can't believe June 15th is almost here!) and he has not once complained about my son needing something or about supporting him. My son was part of the package, and he wanted the package.

As far as the question in your subject line: It would have been wise to discuss this BEFORE getting married. Some couples choose for the step parent to NOT be responsible (this usually includes the step-parent not being responsible for ANYTHING, not disciplining the children, not making decisions concerning the children, etc., not really the best decision if you ask me, a non-involved step-parent will get ZERO respect from the kids IMO), while other couples, like my H and me, try our best to forget about the step part period. Just because a child isn't yours biologically, doesn't mean they can't be YOURS, if you know what I mean.

In my own personal opinion, yes, the step parent IS responsible for the kids, as a figure of authority in the household, a contributor to the household, etc., and the children and their needs are part of the household and it's needs.

Amanda

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: ace61502 ]</small>

Is Step Parent Finanically Responsible for Step Children.............?

Unless you've legally adopted them, I'd say 'no' ... at least from the technical standpoint.

But ... and like that thing I'm sitting on, this is a big but ... when you marry someone who has kids, you're taking a package deal. That includes responsibilities related to your new spouse and to the spouse's dependent children.

The thing which would puzzle me, if I were in your position, is why I'm finding out from the landlord (instead of my wife) that the rent on our apartment is in arrears to the tune of thousands. I'd be a little p***ed.

BTW: using the word "owe" regarding money between spouses earns you 40 lashes with a wet noodle.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by neuschwanstein:
<strong>ON TOP OF THE CHILD SUPPORT MY W WORKS AND BRINGS HOME ABOUT $1050 PER MONTH. I BRING HOME $1242 PER MONTH. HER 2 INCOMES W/SUPPORT AND HER INCOME ALMOST DOUBLES MINE.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H's income is nearly quadruple what mine is. Rather than worry about what penny is his and which is mine we put our money into one account and pay the bills. What is left over we split based on who needs what and usually agree very easily on what to spend it on. Both of us are free to make small purchases as we please, so long as we keep each other aware and watch our balance. I've set our checking account up on Microsoft money which helps us track our spending easily and helps us manage our debt as well. It's working VERY well.

Amanda

Wow ---

What an opener you have!

First off, ethically, morally, technically, and legally you are probably NOT responsible for her children in any way. You obviously (from your posts here) show no indication that you ARE responsible for them.

Your complaints have basically been that she can't 'service' you to the manner in which you had expected to become accustomed before you were married.

Honestly, the woman sounds a bit unethical herself, keeping financial secrets, behaving in a rather childish manner, etc.

I'm wondering if either of you talked about or seriously considered the implications of marriage with children before you stood before the judge or the preacher and said I do. It takes a lot of planning to make a marriage work - in perfect circumstances - and yours are less than perfect. You need to stop right now - and put some plans on paper - a budget to start with, and some basic plans as far as raising children together.

Somehow you've both got to get beyond the yours or mine... Selfish - living on your own separate plan doesn't work inside a marriage.

Jan

First things first...

Neuschwanstein is one of my most favorite places to visit. Bernkastel-Kues is my number one spot in Germany. It was literally breath taking.

Now, on to the issue at hand.

IMVHO, I feel that your house is a house "divided". Until there is an "ours" taking the place of yours and mine, is not going to sail smoothly.

The children of the house are to be cared for, regardless of who is the bio and who is the step parent. BOTH of you are responsible for the children.

A budget needs to be made with regard to monthly expenditures. It needs to be totaled...and then POJA how much each person contributes.

Open a checking account for household only. A certain percent of your earnings...her earnings...and a smaller portion of the CS should be deposited into that account to pay those each month. 80% of each of your checks would be 840.00 from her...993.00 from you...and just 40% of CS would be 480.00. Now, that totals 2,313.00 dollars. Would that cover ALL HOUSEHOLD expenses (with groceries included...please overestimate on that part to allow for enough)?

You and she would both keep 20% of the money that you earn to do with as you wish (suggestion being a bit saved) and the CS left would be for EXTRAS for the children or savings for them also.

It is all a matter of putting it together and in perspective...not MINE...not YOURS.

And the "borrowing" word...yeah, I would not use that word. She ASKED you for money so that she could LOAN it to a friend. The answer would have been to POJA..not to loan it to your wife, who in turn loaned it to a friend.

As long as things are so separated in your house, you will not be a close family.

I understand the dynamics of step families. My second marriage was a step family situation. The only thing is, we never used the word "step". It was just a preference that it not be used.

Please know that I only threw those numbers out as a starting point. It might take more..it might function with less, it is just a starting point.

As Always, JMHO
committed

JL & Amanda,

Hey Guys, thanks for posting. The truth is that I have talked to talk. I really mean talked to her. I explained over and over and over again where my finanices were going.
At this point do I feel taken advantage of? YES!
When you get married there is a package deal, I in certain ways understand that. Living from paycheck to paycheck isn't really living!
I don't treat the kids like "out cast". At the same time if you refer back to my other post, I stopped the disipline part as she has problems with it. Yet in still my W expects me to play the role of a "full/real" dad.
I'm so stressed now I feel my insides shaking, I don't sleep well at all any more. I have even put a tooth brush/paste & a change of under clothes in my car if I ever feel too stressed out to come home <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> .
I have no problem helping out on occassion, but I just feel like I'm here as "the Help" nothing more.

I have sat down with my W and planned a monthly budget. Unfortunately, she didn't stick to it. That is very frustrating.
My W aske my if she could "BORROW" the money to give to a friend. That's fine. I don't even want the money back.
The thing is if anyone of you asked to borrow some money from me....I than interupt that as you owe me money. If I were to respond "you're borrowing money from me", my opinion comes out like a question.
Dan-O, I feel that I used the word owe in an non-projecting way to make so that my W would interupt that negativly, again I was just trying to explain to her where my finances were going.
neu

neu -

lets strategize some responses so that you are heard, as she is playing an emotional game, ie, not wanting to talk to you face to face, as married adults. Somehow, you need to not discuss these issues over the phone.

OK, strategy responses:

1) in regards to your salary, "I am doing the best i can in a tight economy." "I will look for a new job, but until then, $x,xxx is all i am making at the moment."

2) in regards to your words "Owe," a simple apology is in order. Just apologize and say, "I am sorry that i used the word 'owe'. I was feeling used since i am being asked to provide more money, when i have no control over the amount of my salary/hourly wage."

3) As far as the rent goes, "I am feeling blindsided and ignored when I have to find out that we are not paying the rent on time from the landlord."

4) "Financial situations are very difficult to get out of, and i am worried that we are getting into a hole where we can't get out of very easily or permanently"

5) "since we are in a financial position where we have to borrow for ourselves, i do not feel comfortable lending or giving away our money to others at the moment, until our finances can return to normal."

then listen. . . to her responses. . again, you are not blaming anyone her, and you are stating your feelings without any references to her. . .

so, neu, tell me if these statements feel correct from your point of view. . .

wiftty

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</small>

I would love not having to use the word "Step" as it relates to the kids, but my W reminds me from time to time that they are hers and hers alone.
So I feel an outsider.

Do get me wrong, if the kids need something or even want something within reason, and I can afford to do it I don't have a problem with that at all.

Witty,
Hey, as for apologizing to my W in regards to the "owe" word I tried many times to explain that is was not in a hurtful or mean was. I told her I'm sorry that she took it the way she did.

She knows that I have been looking for a new job for almost 9 months now. My own boss has tried to help me get a better paying job as my boss knows it hard financially when there is a new wife and kids involved. I have filled out applications, posted resume on the net, etc. Nothing has come up as of yet. It has gotten to the point were I don't tell her that I filling out applications, posting resume because I see the disappointment in her face the last time I almost had a very good paying job, but just fell short. I individual of the certain job in Human Resourses tried to do what they could to get me in. I told my W how I feel and I do feel bad. Economicly, I had hope to be in a better paying job right now. Unfortaunately, it's not the case, but not for lack of trying. I'm blessed just to be employed were I live because it is bad all around my area, even outside of my area.
Someone mentioned if I considered the implications of a marriage with children. My response to that is perhaps not as serious as I should have been. My theroy is if the husband and wife are doing good everything else will fall into place. Unfortunately, my W and I aren't doing good.
I can honestly say I was up front with everything with my W before we got married in all areas.
The issue with the rent is something I really didn't know until after we married. It was her appartment, we didn't live together before we married. Shocked, doesn't even do justice to how I felt when the LandLord showed me in front of her the back balance and interest, which was way before me.
Wouldn't you feel a bit decieved if you had told your future spouse everything and after you married you found out things you should have be told before you got married?
neu

If I were that landlord, I would have evicted her after the first or second unpaid rent. WHY IS HE NOT EVICTING HER?

(was she paying in some other way or something?)

Witty & JL,
You both mentioned something to my W palying an emotional game with me. Please enlighten me as how you came to this. Thank <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
neu

neu-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told her I'm sorry that she took it the way she did. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">read the words very carefully, you are apologizing for HER INTERPRETATION! i am talking about YOUR feelings. . . again, you are not keeping to the "I" statements, and not owning the apology.

This is the work you need to be doing. And i would NOT hold back from telling her about the applications that you have filled out. That is lying by omission, and not giving her an accurate picture. . .

geez, you are not at all being honest in your relationship with your W, REGARDLESS of the past. You are stuck on the past that you have been honest in the past. . . well, that is now a moot point, you still have to be honest every single day, now and into the future. . . and again, you want support for your unable to get a better job, you need to tell her every single application and rejection that you get. . .

otherwise, her interpretations may be skewed. . .

OK, so what are you going to talk to her about now?

wiftty

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</small>

baba2,
If I were the LandLord I would have Evicted her long ago, and taken her to court. She wasn't paying him in some other way. The Landlord showed me all the reciepts from the time she moved in. She wan't making her full rent/gas bill payments and many times late, which is a fine.
She doesn't like the Landlord because he doesn't do this or that. I try to tell her that she didn't do right by the Landlord.
The only reason I truly believe that the Landlord didn't evict her was because she was getting married and may have thought he could than get his rent on time as well as back rent paid off.
The Landlord was even nice enough to set up a monthly payment agrangement with my W to pay off back rent. The second month into this agrangement she didn't make the back rent payment. He was still willing to work with her and she had to pay 2 months back rent on top of her share of present rent the following month.

Oh geeze. that landlord is way too nice. Your wife sounds like she blames all ehr problems on other people. It was the landlords fault, etc. etc. She will start blaming you for her problems next, you just wait....

I dunno, neu, certainly if things are as you say (and we all know the adage about "there are three sides to every story: his side, her side, and the truth"), I would say that you are a victim of a bait and switch in this marriage. That your W enticed you into the marriage with one set of groundrules (which you apparently have discussed with her), only to start living by a different set of groundrules.

As JL and Wiftty have indicated, I think it comes down to sitting your W down and having a discussion about the State of the Union. It seems like it's time to revisit the understandings, or lack thereof.

If your version of events is accurate, your W is quite an expert at conflict avoidance, manipulation, and passive aggressiveness (before y'all jump on me, I'm not saying this as a diagnosis, just as a way it appears to me). The huffing and puffing and the no kissing as punishment are very immature, IMO.

Anyway, you are obviously feeling like you are irrelevant to her life, and that you are only there as a paycheck. These are valid feelings. I'm not saying that this is the way it is, but this is obviously how you feel. So you need to discuss these feelings with your W, to make sure she understands your concern. Don't blame her, just tell her how you feel. If she starts trying to turn it into you blaming her (as I suspect she will), then you'll have your work cut out for you. You two seem to have a pattern established where she cuts off communication by playing the victim, so instead you just hold everything in and build resentment. That is a very common pattern, and a tough one to overcome. But overcome it you must.

AGG

Witty,
What am I going to do? Well, when I go home I will tell her that I apologize for using the word owe. I truly feel it won't make a difference, but I'm willing to try.
About the job applications, posting resumes, etc. I told her all about it on the night all this "it the fan" as it were. I see your point of view and I will tell her about every application, resume I fill/give.
neu

Emotional games:

keeping finances separate, not being open and honest about how she spends money,

changing her mind/opinion/position on your role in the family to suit her feelings of the moment.

using anger and silence as a means to avoid responsibility, not answering questions

putting other's financial interests ahead of the family's financial interest. . .

unless she has stated that she wants you to get a job, don't interpret her being stressed out as she requiring you to make more. . . you have so much, she is stressed out, she needs to slow down on the spending, or figure out how she can earn more, since you are trying. . .

those are emotional games and a few financial ones also.

wiftty

however, don't attack her on playing emotional games, just the next time she asks you for money, think real hard about what your response should be. also, you can tell her that you don't feel comfortable with her spending habits given the state of the rent situation. . .

at that point, she might blow a gasket, but you need to just sit there and be calm. . .

bait and switch? sounds like she was looking for a partner for financial support only, because she wasn't making it on her own. . . and that is all she wants. . .

BTW, neu, how old are you?

wiftty