I did plan A, then plan B. Husband agreed to all of my conditions and came home 2 weeks ago. He has admitted only the bare minimum of details about the affair. He still swears it was only an EA. I have serious doubts about that. The affair lasted 4 years. A friend saw them holding hands at a restaurant. He only admits to holding hands and kissing a few times. Also, he claims lots of amnesia whenever he is asked a pointed question, or minimizes all details. We went to our first counseling appt. last night and the counselor suggested I ask questions, and he answer them honestly. I know that he will NOT volunteer anything, even with the advise of the counselor. How did the rest of you get full disclosure? I feel I am hung up on this issue. I cannot move forward without this information. Thank you.

Hattie,

Look for the thread here called "Notable Posts" by Pepperband. One of the very first posts there you will find "Joseph's Letter". Copy it, and edit it, and give it to your husband.

One of the basic concepts on MB that your WH needs to understand is the concept of Radical Honesty. He needs to know that without his honesty, your marriage will end up in the toilet - regardless of all the good intentions and good feelings he may have.

He wants to avoid talking about the bad things - in hopes that if he doesn't speak the words, they will not be true.

That if he never tells you, then you will not be hurt by his behavior.


He needs to understand you are already hurt - and that you have the right to know the truth of your own life, bad or good, and that his secrecy tells you one thing:

He wants to protect HER - not you.


And that his continuing to protect her will devastate any chance for your moving forward.

That your desire for information is NOT meant to destroy the marriage, but only to settle your mind, so that you can rebuild. Because your own imagination is far worse than what is real.


When my husband refused to answer questions with the details I wanted and needed, I asked him if he would rather I call and ask the OW. He failed to respond, so I did it - I called her and asked her.

I then love-busted all over him, telling him that the humiliation was compounded by HIS FAILURE TO PROTECT MY RIGHT TO KNOW. And in the future, he could continue to protect her, or he could choose to protect me from further humiliation.

Which did he want?


He has answered my questions since then, albeit grudgingly at times. He has always maintained that he didn't want to hurt me further.

I always tell him that having to pull the answers out of him like I have had to, over such a long period of time, would slowly kill me.


Ultimately he has told me everything.


We have had a recovery - don't get me wrong. But this one issue was the hardest for me to overcome, because my H was a big pain in the butt in this regard.


(Can you tell I still get a little nerved about it????)


Maybe you can tell him that he has an interesting choice before him on the table. He can choose to rip this bandage off one single hair at a time, or just rip it off all at once.

I will guarantee you that he does not want to be in my H's shoes. At about two years out, we had a huge fight over this. Does he really want this to drag on for YEARS?????? I mean, literally, YEARS?????

It can, and it WILL, if he chooses to avoid your questions.


His choice, but tell him to make that decision with his eyes


WIDE OPEN.




Print out Joseph's Letter. If you have to, read it to him.

SB

SB offered you great advice.

There is another way.

YOU get to decide what your boundaries are...not your husband. He is being less than honest and inasmuch, you don't have the opportunity to make decisions about your life based on honesty.

I would set a boundary that if he wishes to recover the marriage, he needs to submit to a polygraph exam....and actually have him take the test. You will get to the truth very quickly and completely.

I suggest reading TST and SMB's "story" to see just how effective this can be.

Do not settle for crumbs.

Good luck.

Thank you so much for both of your information. Help! I do not know how to do a search on this site. I tried under "search this site" and nothing shows up. Do you know how to do a search for these posts?

Thank you!

Hattie

Here ya go!

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

Thank you so much! That is a great letter. I will edit it and give it to him. Now my husband says "since you don't believe anything I have told you, just assume her and I made love EVERY DAY! We went to lunch together EVERY DAY. Acted like we were madly in love and planning to run away together EVERY DAY! She has been waiting for me to leave you and be with her for years" He has decided he will tell me the worst case scenario, even if it's not true, and that that will be my reality and that will be what I need to get over! Can you believe that? Am I being totally manipulated, or what?

Was full disclosure part of your requirements to move back home? If disclosure is an issue for you then you need to set it as a boundary and if he doesn't want to give you the truth then you can tell him to leave again. WH is holding hands and kissing OW and he's still telling you it was only an EA? :RollieEyes:


Luckily my POSOW offered up key info via her BH because she was certain her and FWH now FINALLY had the chance to be together forever **insert violin smiley** After picking ourselves up from the lowest point of our rollercoaster from he//, my H FINALLY, FINALLY saw how destroyed I was with the lies and answered my questions without pulling teeth.

That sounds really remorseful. :RollieEyes:

What in the world ever made you think such a person was committed to recovery of your marriage? The person who said this is HOSTILE to you, not in any way interested in recovery.

You made a huge mistake ending Plan B with someone with this attitude.

Hattie, my friend, you have a made a mistake. You are in a FALSE RECOVERY which is often much more harmful to the mental state of the BS than the initial affair. This is not someone who is ready for recovery.

What made you come out of Plan B and take him back? What were your conditions? Did a committment to recovery ever come up?

Hattie,

First here is a link to SMB's thread;

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1893552&fpart=43


Secondly, your H is being an idiot! After everything you have done to fight for your marriage and then be treated as poorly as this. That's unacceptable!

Are you still there Hattie? I see you have made a few threads seeking advice but it doesn't seem like you are willing to respond to the advice given or questions answered. What made you end Plan B if this is H's attitude?

Oh my god. I made a mistake to let him back. He promised disclosure. He says that he did disclose, only I don't believe him. He says his only choice is to tell me what he thinks I want to hear (worst case scenario). How do I know what he is telling me is true or not? He swears there was no physical contact, that he had "strong feelings" for her, had a few lunches and bike rides, and that was it. I am so confused!

Polygraph.

Hattie, i am so confused. He says he "disclosed" what? To whom?

Did he have an affair? How do you know he had an affair?

IS HE STILL IN CONTACT WITH HER?

He disclosed that it was an EA only, no physical contact other than hand holding and kissing. They met for lunches and bike rides. He did write a no contact letter when he returned. For some reason, I really feel like there is more, but I have no proof. Someone mentioned a polygraph. I guess that is the next step. Oh, and no, he didn't quit his job. She doesn't work with him, she actually works in the same industry for a competitor, so quitting the job wouldn't change anything.

You didn't answer what rules did you set down for him to be able to come back? Is he honoring them? Do you have access to his cell phone, emails, computer, etc.? Do you have all his passwords?

Oh, and btw, if you believe he was just holding hands and kissing for 4 YEARS, well, I've got a bridge in a desert to sell you.