I don't think it's as bad as most women think it is. By that I mean that I don't think guys even want their 30 something wife to look like she's 20 something. Seriously, the aging is a good thing since I'm my tastes are 'aging' right along with it.

As well, I think effort does go along way and is a big part of physical attractiveness. For example, if the W wears sweatpants around the H all the time, but dresses up to go out with her girlfriends, you aren't trying to meet the PA need and he knows it. And if your exercising and/or dieting for PA, the H is going to know regardless of how well you meet your goals.

I agree - I certainly don't want her to look like she's 20 something. I like the was she looks better as she's gotten older. I am not ready for her to look 50 something yet, but when she does I don't have an expectation for her to look younger.
This is really close to how I feel. I don't mind sweats or casual clothes. I don't want her wearing high heels and a bikini while doing housework and her hair all done up and stuff (though that would be kind of awesome )
Kidding, but the part about seeing your spouse trying and is spending time working out or exercising, just the trying is going to meet my need.
Heck I may have said this already, but part of my recreational companionship need being met would as a side benefit, probably meet most of my PA need. Bike riding a few times a week and working out together a few times a week would make me very happy.

First of all, 5'4" and 103 pounds is bordering on anorexic. How much tigher than skinnier does she need to get?


Refreshing POV. I know some men in their 40s and 50s who want wives that look 30, or even younger. The old mid-life crisis thing. It gets a bit entertaining when they find they have vastly different preferences for music, leading to such silly questions as "Aerosmith? Who's that?"



It's hard for some people to work out in front of other people, particularly their spouse. My H for example, hated going to the gym; it made him feel self-conscious.

Funny you should mention RC. My H and I share RC interests; in fact, that is what brought us together in the first place. We both like outdoors sports which naturally helps us to maintain a certain level of fitness. At the same time, my love for the outdoors means I'm pretty casual and low-maintenance. I'm not into high fashion, high heels, jewelry, and other froo-froo stuff. Yet I think low-maintenance women can still be attractive without being a slave to all that stuff. But alas, the idea of natural beauty is lost on some.

Because my H and I share RC interests, I have a heck of a time trying to figure out how/why people with differing RC interests get together in the first place. What did these people do together while dating? How does the relationship progress if RC interests do not gel with one another?

Probably a good thing to explain this to her. IIWM, it would make a big difference to have it explained this way. Good segue into O&H about what both of you like.

I so get this. Just 2 days ago, my H comes home and says 'I don't know how to say this to you cos I know you're going to get mad at me, (and I'm thinking WTF is he moving out?) but you really need to move your car.'

I'm going huh? He says you're facing the wrong direction on the street (I had parked in the street cos we needed to use D18's car), and you can get a ticket for parking in that direction.

But he's so afraid of my reaction when he says negative things...

another great O&H topic. She'd probably appreciate you discussing the subject.

lol, I have two great riffs on that.

First, I was working in a stereo store in the late '70s, early '80s. This teenage girl is buying something, and says 'Hey, did you know that Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings?'

I about had a heart attack.

And this morning, my radio station is doing what they call Mile o' Meat, every day before Valentines Day each year. They get 25 single guys who sign up to stand along the side of the road with numbers on their shirts. Girls drive by and call into the radio station to ask for the one they want; the DJ (Rod Ryan, 94.5, who is about 37 years old) sets them up, and they all meet at a club that night to meet each other.

Anyway, the guys have to say what celebrity they look like. This one guy said he looks like 'Uncle Jessie' and the DJ goes, 'Uncle Jessie from Dukes of Hazzard?!' And the younger, female DJ goes, 'No! Uncle Jessie from Full House, you idiot!' lol (John Stamos)

OK. Sorry for the TJ.

It's unbelievable how bad that can get. I'd like to ask my STBXW to make an effort to turn on the exterior lights when she's knows I'm stopping by, but I feel like the probability of her taking it as a DJ is way too high. I'm not trying to say she's morally wrong for not turning on the lights, just that it would be nice to not stumble in the dark to find the door bell. And yes, it's a courtesy that shows a little respect.

I get that I've DJ-ed in the past, and thus she wants to keep her guard up, but darn it, when do I get a clean slate or the benefit of the doubt?

Sometimes we never get a pass. I've asked H to please put his gym bag away so I don't trip over it as I walk in the door and to take his late night ice cream dishes and wineglass to the dishwasher, preferably or at least, the kitchen sink.

He always says 'yeah, yeah, i'll get it' like I'm bugging him and then he never does do it. So the next time I ask ,I'm a nag. ::

Guess I t/j'd too.

Do you really think so? Isn't the concept of radical honesty an absolute?


I don't get the impression that his love is in question. I used to love my XW. I loved her when she put on a lot of weight. I loved her when she lost it. I was more physically attracted to her when she got thinner. The two things don't necessarily equate.


I agree with this.

Also, I think the OP set himself up for a fall when he made the 0-3 (both - and +) scale. It's way too narrow. I think he'd have been better off stretching it out to 0-10. Calling her a +7 sounds a LOT better than calling her a +1. It puts her in the upper range of attractiveness, which is how I gather he feels about her, while still leaving some room for improvement. Honestly, changing her hair and clothes a little bit is pretty easy. If that's all she needs to do to achieve Perfect 10 status in his eyes, calling her a +7 in her current state certainly isn't overly generous.

His feelings on the matter are valid. His delivery might use a little work.


I can empathize with this. When my XW and I first started dating, her appearance took a nose dive. It's not just how physically attractive an SO is or isn't, it's the display of effort they make. We want to feel like our partners care about how we feel about them. Otherwise, we can feel taken for granted. I think this applies to both men and women. I don't think that wives appreciate a husband who spends his leisure time in a tattered old concert t-shirt that they've had since 1987, and a pair of sweatshorts that only have 10% of the original fabric remaining.

While we're dating, we're flattered that our SOs take the time to look good and impress us. Is it unreasonable that we might feel offended when they no longer see a need to impress us?

Anything under 100 would be acceptable I guess....
OK - I am TOTALLY kidding about that... Adding a little muscle is all I am talking about. BMI at 103 is 17.5 which is considered underweight, but she's also a tiny girl and wears XS or size 0 maybe 00.
If You were to say she should be 115 which I think according to the BMI chart is "normal" that means she would have to gain 12 pounds of muscle or fat. I can't imagine that 12 pounds of pure fat would make her look better and 12 pounds of muscle would make her look like a linebacker I think... just looking at numbers is meaningless without considering the person. I think the reality is her adding a few lbs of muscle would exceed my PA need Certainly not!
We are building a home gym that should be ready soon.

Your wife is thin, very thin, if she gets much thinner she will risk her health. It has been found that very thin women have problems with bone loss in later life. Because they dont eat enough to keep thier calcium stores up. You do not want her getting osteporosis.

I think your ideas of what looks healthy is skewed. If you are a real poster that is. Your wife is fine at her present weight. Demanding she wear her hair a certain way and dress certain ways is really insane on your part. I believe you have a problem. It would be hard to be a thin woman living with your extremely critical and picky eye.

If you are this picky about details of what she wears, you will probably not ever be happy with her. Some people pick and pick at stuff all the time and never get happy or content with what they have,,,,which is usually far superior to anything out there...in life.

Your wife is far better than 99% of women out there. So what do you want and expect?

she's not risking her health. 5'4" @103 what would you suggest? gain 10 lbs of fat? there is no way that would be healthier or more attractive.
Real poster? what? I am 5'10 and presently 164. By eating better and burning 4000 calories a week bike riding and spending a couple of hours a week in the gym, I would be @ 155-157 and unable to pinch any belly fat and fit comfortably in 30" pants. My wife wants to get in better shape and I want to spend time with her including bike riding and working out and it would both make me happy to spend that time with her and seeing the results.
You are right she is fine at her present weight. She would be more fine at her present weight with a little more muscle tone. Demanding? WTH? I wasn't demanding. I prefer for her to NOT wear her hair ONE particular way. She wears her hair the way I like it 95% of the time.
Dress certain ways? We went through all her outfits today and out of perhaps 20 tops and 10 pants and 7 dresses, I identified 3 tops that I didn't like. She agreed she didn't like the one, and didn't mind the other 2. She was happy about the idea to go shopping together. I AM happy with what I have. The whole point of the EN questionaire was to learn more about each others needs and things that make us happy.I want her and expect her to be as interested in meeting my needs as I am in meeting hers.

she's not risking her health. 5'4" @103 what would you suggest? gain 10 lbs of fat? there is no way that would be healthier or more attractive.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071109192742.htm

Do some research on Google using "Thin women have osteoporosis. You will find loads of research regarding this. IF YOU CARE ABOUT HER HEALTH.

No one wants her to gain 10 lbs of fat. Why do you say this? your bummer attitude is showing...


I want her and expect her to be as interested in meeting my needs as I am in meeting hers.

What needs do you meet of hers?

You sound like a Gym Rat who wants your wife to be as compulsive about it as you are. But you are risking her health. I hope you care enough about her to do the research. Just because you cannot see weakened bones does not mean it is not happening. Be smart and do the research please. Save your wife.

http://www.google.com/search?source...US206&q=thin+women+have+osteoporosis

Here it is.


And according to the ARMY, your wife would be so thin as to be referred to the medic. For being unhealthy!

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/l/blweightfemale.htm

Here is what I hear you saying to your wife:

1. I want you thinner and more muscular
2. I want you to work out and look like the women at the gym
3. I do not care if you are thin, I do not care if it causes health problems.
4. I need you to look a certain way for me.
5. I do not care if you are starving or underweight. You will look the way i want you to look.
6. You will wear what I like, have hair like I like it, and have the body molded like I like.
7. I want you to spend hours working out to please me.

I hear you saying this to us and to your wife.

I say this because You are not saying what the solution is. You keep saying she's "too" thin. Well what should she do? Her skin, bones and hydration are basically set variables. The only changes she could make are:
less fat, more fat, less muscle, more muscle
less fat(not very easy, but possible, could be unhealthy if % is too low, but too low % of body fat in women is pretty uncommon without eating disorders or exercise compulsion)
more fat (Not attractive and not healthy, increased cardiovascular disease, higher blood pressure and stroke risk, higher cholesterol, insulin resistance, increased cancer risk)
less muscle(the only way for her to go much under 100 lbs, not attractive and probably not healthy)
more muscle (More attractive to a point, but without steroids, there are not going to be huge gains in muscle mass for a woman. plus that would be unattractive and unhealthy)
So I ask this seriously: What should she do?

I appreciate You taking the time to reply, but I feel like you are trying to start a fight. Are you fat?

She stopped growing taller in High School and was @ 100Lbs then. 20 years later she still isn't any taller and weighs @ 100Lbs. Since I don't think she can get any taller, I doubt she wants to grow wider. I am a lucky guy that she doesn't subscribe to the ideas that as we get older we get fatter or for every child you just keep getting fatter and fatter and have no reason to stay in shape.
We just started the class at church 2 weeks ago and Sat night went over her top needs and I am going to meet them all better. I was happy for her to share what is important to her and what will make her happier when I meet that need better.
Save my wife? How about save the DRAMA... :RollieEyes:
Following your advice, I searched and found the National Osteoporosis Foundation and indeed you are correct. Their website says:
"Low Body Weight/Being Small and Thin. Women and men with small bones are more likely than larger people to have osteoporosis."
So, my wife being thin is an osteoporosis risk factor. I looked on their website some more for prevention info and I found Getting more Calcium, Vitamin D and Oh look what we have here.... EXCERCISE... hmmm I couldn't find any suggestions for being fat as a way to prevent osteoporosis. It DID suggest the following:
Weight-bearing, High-Impact Exercises are best for building bones in people who do not have low bone mass, osteoporosis or are frail.
* Dancing
* High-impact aerobics
* Hiking
* Jogging/running
* Jumping Rope
* Stair climbing
* Tennis
RESISTANCE AND STRENGTHENING EXERCISES
These exercises include activities where you move your body, a weight or some other resistance against gravity.
*Functional movements, such as standing and rising up on your toes
*Lifting weights
*Using elastic exercise bands
*Using weight machines
*Lifting your own body weight
NON-IMPACT ACTIVITIES (BALANCE, FUNCTIONAL AND POSTURE EXERCISES)
These exercises can help you to improve balance, posture, and how well you move in every day activities. These exercises can also help to increase muscle strength and decrease the risk of falls and broken bones
So - This is great, she can both meet my needs for RC, PA AND prevent osteoporosis. Looks like a Win Win to me!!

I'll edit for what I meant to say:
1. You are beautiful and sexy. I know you want to be more in shape and muscular for yourself and I want to encourage you in that effort, spend time with you reaching that goal and it would make me happy too.
2. I would love for you to work out with me. ( I don't go to a gym or want her to look like any other woman)
3. If there was something unhealthy about your weight, I would want you to change whatever was necessary for your health.
4. I would like you to be in better shape. I don't need you to be in better shape and it won't make me love you any less if you didn't want to get in better shape or couldn't.
5. I don't want you to be underweight. By fat people eating a western diet's standards you will be considered underweight. I want you to eat a lot of healthy food and never be starving. Eating doesn't make you fat, eating unhealthy does. The healthier you are and the healthier you look, the happier it will make me.
6. We mostly share the same taste in clothes. How about we replace the couple of things that aren't mine or your favorites with a little shopping spree for new stuff? I really like your hair the way you had it on Sunday, Monday, Tues, Wed, Thursday, Friday. My favorite is when you straighten it and it lays kind of flat like You wore it to Church last week. My second favorite is when you wear it up in a pony tail.
7. I want to spend as much time as we can together. Once I get the home gym finished and the weather starts getting warmer, I hope to spend some of that time together working out and riding bikes. I know it's not as important to you, so I don't expect you to work out with me or ride bikes with me every time I want to.
8. I Love you very much and I am very happy to have you as my wife!!

Print this out, hand it to your wife, and ask her which one SHE hears, since she's the one who matters here.