Since I never did Plan B, I wanted to ask this question that's been on my mind for sometime now after being here for awhile.

If a BS is supposed to disregard what a WS says during Plan A because they are so foggy and then they go to Plan B and no contact. At what point AND HOW does Plan B end if (a) the WS is wanting to return to the marriage or (b) is willing to go no contact with OP? If they are foggy how do you know this is your REAL SPOUSE is speaking? If you're in Plan B, how does the WS communicate and convince the IM that they are sincere?

I understand about the WS going no contact with OP, but there HAS to be SOME conversation about all of this before BS makes their decision on whether to come out of Plan B or to allow WS to come home.

Am I missing something?

You KNOW I want this answer as well.

I was under the impression that the Plan B letter was the road home and if the WS was willing to follow the Plan B letter to the "T" which includes NC then there was honesty and truth in the WS actions and potential for recovery.

An oldie (more oldie than I) wrote this a long time ago ...

*link*

... about ending plan B.

Wow Pep, powerful stuff. I totally agree. That's why I've always felt it's not the WS who decides when it's over, it's the BS.

Thank you, I'm going to send this to my friend.

I've been in Plan B for six months and last weekend came to the realization that I am at a point of what I described to a friend as "perfect equilibrium" between my desire to rebuild my marriage and my desire to move on. The thing that made it "perfect" was that, quite differently than all the times previous when I had felt both of these things together, there was no conflict involved. None. I had no "mixed feelings"; I just had both sets of feelings at the same time.

The thing that made it such a watershed was that almost as soon as it happened I sat down and wrote WH a 3 page letter in which I released him. The letter seemed to be written before I actually put hands to keyboard; it came out almost in one piece with no editing.

I told him that I did not want a divorce, but that if he did, he could have it; I would not try to hold on to the marriage any longer. I told him that I wanted him to be free and that I was taking back my freedom from my earlier commitment to surrender it to him within our marriage. I told him that neither of us ever owned the other, but that I wished we had given ourselves time to discover the richness in a relationship that comes from learning how to put things back together after a fall, how to manage the choice two people make to give up their freedom, pledging it each to the other in marriage, in the context of a renewed, close and loving relationship.

I told him that I see how in my panic and desperation in the months after learning about the affair I clung to him, which was not a loving thing to do, and I asked that he forgive me for that. I told him that I could see how my pain - crying every night for weeks - confronted him every day/night - that he couldn't make it all better, couldn't get away from it, and couldn't ignore it - and that must have been suffocating. I reminded him that I had stayed, had focused on change and on meeting his needs (after I found MB) but that I had also made a doormat of myself in the process.

I told him that this was true no longer; I had decided to move on. That it is important to me that he be able to choose freely what he wants. I reminded him of several things we had shared, and told him that it is hard for me to give all these things up - but that I will. I told him that his choice to marry me in the first place meant so much to me because it had been made of his own free will, to honor me and us. I reminded him of a time I could do no wrong and commented that now it seems I can do no right but that I can do absolutely nothing about that now, and if it is where he remains with regard to me, then so be it.

I told him that I still wanted to work on the marriage, that divorce had never been an option for me, but that if he was determined to take that course I would wrap things up as quickly as possible. I told him that if his desires for settlement terms were reasonable that I would settle with him as quickly as possible and if they weren't we would let a judge decide. I then told him that once the door closed on our marriage I would assume he was done and I would go forward and try to pretend I had never known him because it was too painful otherwise.

I told him that I forgave him, with no strings, and although I couldn't know how he felt about that, for me it meant everything - because with forgiveness I am free, and without it, I am not.

I told him that my life was being rebuilt, that I have learned I have alot to learn, including almost from scratch about relationships (and included a link to Five Love Languages with a comment about how much it had helped me.) I told him that I did not know what the future would hold, but that I had great hopes.

And I told him I had great hopes for him, too - that he find recovery (alcohol), that his life would be restored, that he would be happy.

And I signed it, "Love,......"

And I MEANT EVERY WORD.

I emailed it to him, and when I get back from this business trip I intend to print it out, attach a note to him that says specifically that I do not want the divorce, invite him to contact me if he has doubts, and that if I do not hear from him after a bit I will close the door and complete the divorce. I will then insert it in a loving card and mail it to him to be certain he receives it.

And then I'm moving on.

That's how I've ended Plan B.

With the freedom inside (finally!) that comes from knowing that I can choose to go either way. With hopes for reconciliation but also with growing curiousity and excitement about completely starting over and re-inventing my life. With an awareness that with no ties (in that sense) I can join the Peace Corps (don't laugh; I'm actually looking at it!) or move somewhere else or declare bankruptcy (which will probably happen anyway) and go focus on writing, which I've wanted to do since childhood.

So it's true. Plan B ends because the BS ends it. At least in my case.

For me, Plan B ended because FWH agreed to meet all of my conditions in my PBL.

This is why it is VITALLY important that the conditions are very CLEAR in that letter.

My conditions were:

~NC ever again (no brainer);
~MC with counselor of my choice (I knew I was going to choose SH);
~and agreement to follow and abide by the MB Basic Concepts (this is great because it pretty much covers all issues...by using POJA, PORH, using "extraoridnary precautions", providing each other with extraordinary care, etc. all of my bases were covered).

Our IM is someone I met on MB so she knew what criteria he had to agree to in order to pass the info on to me.

The first thing he did was to write the NC letter...that is what got the ball rolling for us. As soon as he wrote the NC letter and emailed it to her, she forwarded it to me so that I could see his sincerity. We started communicating directly at that point.

I can only see 3 possible outcomes:

1) PBL conditions are met. As MF says, the more specific your conditions, the better, because it's easier to be sure that it isn't more fog.

2) Enough time elapses that the BS decides to move on. There need not be any formal announcement to the WS. By this time, whatever system you have developed regarding visitation, custody, finances etc., are well worked in and there's no need to change them.

3) The BS breaks Plan B too early, ends up with a cake-eating WS who may or may not ever earn the "F" and likely is a POS in other respects as well.

miriam123,

That is one of the most heartfelt, beautiful things I have ever read. It is so simple and yet so complete.

It just wonderfully states the point where most of us BS's hopefully find ourselves and yet shows how you are willing, and even excited about maybe giving it one more shot.

I am soo grateful you wrote that. I am saving it to a word doc to look at later.

SWW

Thanks, SWW. It feels really good to be there and to communicate that and to know that no matter what he does about it (including doing nothing at all), my life is going on. The conditions in my PBL were actually restated in this letter - NC forever (duh) and he addresses the alcohol issues, beginning with assessment/treatment...and I told him in this letter that even with this, there are no guarantees - that those things have to be in place to even begin the discussion! The truth is that I do not believe he will act - he's not ready and may never be ready - but I am, and I knew that there were some things I needed to say before I let go completely - hence the letter.

I realize this isn't "classic" MB - but I have no regrets. I told him in November's PBL what I would need to see in order to start discussing a relationship and that hasn't changed. The only thing that would change would be if he has doubts...then I would postpone completion of the divorce to give him more time to consider...but I still wouldn't resume a relationship, and the delay would be 90 days - after which I'd proceed. I have no interest in dragging things out to give him time to figure out how to fence-sit longer.

I'm glad it helped you. It helped me too. I know I will still have ups and downs. But it sure feels good to be here.

Wow - can't tell you how many times I came to MB over several months and couldn't get on...quit trying...just came back today and starting reading and catching up with Hope, Queenie, Chai...what happened????

- M

One of the most tragic mistakes I have seen is taking a WS back without any plan in place. It leads to a false recovery that causes more devastation than the original D-Day. This is why it is imperative to have a plan in place before reconcilation takes place.

Miriam, the board had crashed and was down for about 3 weeks. Glad you made it back!

Shabbat Shalom Miriam. You have been sorely missed by me and many others.

And after the crash we lost all of our posts from May to Oct (or was it Nov?). anyway, several months of posts were lost.

Yes MANY MANY good posts were lost.....

Queenie, since HOW you came out of Plan B and that info is lost on your thread, you may want to consider giving a recap of what went down so the future newbies will know......

Not2fun

I let Flick come home after a long plan A, with little demands on him. I allowed him to dictate what he would and would not do towards recovery. So that one crashed and became a false recovery in a matter of 6 days, although I didn�t discover that fact for 3 weeks

Plan B ended when I made my conditions PERFECTLY clear with no wiggle room. The bar was also MUCH higher than the plan A recovery, and I personally didn�t move a muscle without the say so of my MB support team. My conditions ended up being much harder than some others I have read of, but it was what I needed to feel it was for real.

Our initial �conversations� where simply him texting me after being completely dark and telling me he was a fool, and promising to do �whatever it takes� the catch phrase I was told to look for. I asked if the A was finished, he said yes, I told him to start a thread on MB and my support team would let me know when he could come home. I didn�t have a good IM so that was the best plan for me. That was our entire conversation for rather a long time.

It's time this one got bumped.


Happy 5th of July!

Thanks Pepperband. I want to add that the definition of recovery means the restoration of romantic love in an affair proofed marriage. Recovery does not mean just staying together.

You're welcome.

And this is such a good one from this thread.