My wife discovered on 11/11 that I had been cheating. It took me a few days before I could reveal the extent of what I had done over the prior 20 months. Cybersex, on-line flirting, escalating to two one night stands and a brief on again off again affair. The new boyfriend of the woman I had the affair with contacted my wife on FB. How horrible for her!

I am truly re-committed to making my marriage work and saving my family (we have two kids 9 and 13). I understand how immature and selfish and destructive my decision to cheat was. How I chose resentment instead of mature love. I am ready to love my wife the way I should have all along.

But, she is "done". She entered an on-line emotional affair a week after discovering my cheating. He lives 4 hours away fortunately, but they have been on a couple of dates already. And she speaks with him at least 10 hours a week and they exchange dozens of texts. How do I replenish her Love Bank while she is allowing someone else to do that? How do I keep from despairing that she wasn't in love with me and that's why it is so easy for her to move on?

We are separated, and she will only discuss the kids and finances at her wish. I am trying really hard to find every opportunity to be loving and nurturing when ever I have a small chance. This week, she brought up divorcing quickly so we can just end all this pain. I told her that I would not stand in the way, but that I didn't want a divorce and asked her if she had pictured reconciliation. She stated that her fear was that it would be nice for a while, maybe even a year or two, but then I would get impatient with her insecurity and get bored and cheat again.

I could use some advice on how to keep letting her know that I am not going anywhere, that I am fighting for our marriage, that I want to be part of her healing process without violating her space and boundaries?

Thanks
DTeas

Why do you want to reconcile your M now?

The best advice I can give you is to tell your BS there are other BS who have been through what she's been through and we want to help her - then give her the link to this site.

You can keep your thread but she should start her own thread.

Gg

SWEET!! Isn't facebook an awesome resource for busting up affairs!?

She is having what is called a "revenge affair". It may not be right, it may not be good for either of you, but you opened the door that she is stepping through.

Your best bet might be to find a pro-marriage counselor, like the Harleys, otherwise you are heading straight for a divorce. Realize, though, that if you do get divorced, it is due to YOUR AFFAIR.

My advice? Book a counseling session or two -- at $200 per hour -- with the Harleys. It is much cheaper than a divorce.

Realize you destroyed your marriage. You ruined her life. You subjected her to the greatest possible pain one spouse can inflict on the other. You chose to do it. No circumstance can justify it. Own that. Live with it. You have absolutely zero credibility with her right now.

You may find some hope in a session or two with a good pro-marriage counselor, and work to improve yourself. Buy a copy of Dr. Harley's "Surviving An Affair". Read it two or three times to understand why you did what you did, and what your chances are for recovering your marriage.

Realize through all of this, though, that by having an affair, you handed your wife an engraved divorce invitation. You have no choice as to whether she accepts your invitation or not. You can only hope to improve yourself, come up with a plan to fix what you've broken, and follow through on it.

The discovery is always horrible because adultery is horrible.

She may have been having an EA before discovery.

Thank you everyone!

I have read "Surviving the Affair" and have been in counseling myself. I was stupid and selfish and incredibly immature. Sure we were having some problems, and I was resentful. But I now see that in now way justified my cheating. It's like someone shoving you and you getting mad and beating them with a baseball bat. Just no excusing me for being that cruel.

But I really do still love her, and I could never do this again seeing the devastation it has caused my wife, kids, and even our extended family. I realize I am facing the consequences of my actions, but that doesn't keep me from praying for the chance to work toward making it up to her the rest of my life.

Thanks for listening. I am not looking for sympathy, but sure could use advice.

DT

I am reposting my comments made on your other thread:

You'd be much better off keeping one thread going, rather than starting another one on another forum which seeks advice for the same problem.

You are posting over Christmas, which is why you are not getting many replies. The board will pickup when posters have spent time with their families. In the meantime, I advise you to stick to your thread in Surviving an Affair.

I will just give you my impression, which is that if you describe your actions in this order of priority, it looks as if you do not realise the seriousness of what you have done:

"... I had been flirting on-line, participating in cybersex, and even had two one night stands and a brief affair. "

EVEN two one-night stands and a brief affair, placed after your online flirting?

So are you wrong in wanting to slow the divorce down?

Well, I would say that you did what you wanted and it led to your multiple affairs. Your wife has the right to do what she wants now. You made the choice to end your marriage when you got involved with other women. You knew that divorce could be the outcome and you chose to do those things anyway. You made choices, without consulting her, to abandon the marriage. You are now facing consequences that you knew might well follow.

What's the rush?

The rush is that she cannot wait to get away from you. Why should she stay with you if that is how she feels after what you have done?

You have been married for 18 years and have two beautiful kids. Isn't that worth fighting for?

Yes it is, and that is why you should not have had your affairs. Why do those things become worth fighting for only now? Why did you not protect your marriage and kids before?

Go back to your other thread and see if you can get advice on how to win your wife back to the marriage. I've been in her shoes and I chose to give my marriage another chance, but I empathise fully with those who feel that they cannot be with their unfaithful spouse after discovery. An unfaithful spouse shows exactly how little they care about the marriage and kids when they choose to discard those things for another person.

Tell us about the circumstances of each affair, starting with the first one. Tell us how you became involved, what you told yourself to allow yourself to do this to your wife, and how each affair ended.

Have the recent flirting and cybersex ended? How did you end them?

Do you have contact with any of your affair partners? Do you work with them or live near to them? Does your wife know who they are? Do you still visit the online places where you met women?

And your reply:

BW

Thanks...I am not sure if you were recommending I fill those details in on the old thread or here? Re-reading my post, I understand what you mean about prioritization. I wrote cybersex, on-line flirting, and cheating in that order to illustrate my escalation. Not the importance, clearly my behavior escalated to more damaging and hurtful as I went along.

And I never did think divorce was a potential outcome. that's how delusional I was. I wish I had been more rational and less self-centered.

DT

DT

DTeas,

"BW" is not my screen name. It is an abbreviation of my status here, which is 'betrayed wife". People use signatures so that their details can be quickly checked, without having to find their old threads.

My screen name is SugarCane, which is linked to the left of my post.

I asked you for details and the only one you have provided is that you did not think that your behaviour could lead to divorce. I strongly doubt that this could have been true. You carefully hid your behaviour from your wife because you knew that this could be an outcome of her discovery.

Think of the lengths you went to to avoid having her know, especially about the physical affairs. How did you hide two one-night stands? How did you hide the "brief affair"? When you met and had sex with someone, how did you hide the smell and the physical traces, and how did you come up with an excuse for where you were? How did you try to act normally and have normal conversations, buzzing as you must have been with the excitement of what you had just done? How did you have meaningful sex with your wife when your sex with the other women (OW) was fresh in your mind?

More to the point, WHY did you hide the affairs? If you did not think that divorce could be an outcome, then you would have raised the possibility on adultery with her before or soon after doing it. You didn't because you knew just how unacceptable affairs were to her.

There is no point lying to yourself about your knowledge of where affairs would take you, and how you ceased to care for your marriage and protect you wife and children from abuse. If you cannot be honest here, then I doubt you are being honest and admitting your knowing cruelty to your wife.

If your argument to her is that "I never thought divorce was a potential outcome", that might sound to her like "I didn't think what I was doing was all that bad. I thought that if you found out, you wouldn't be all that upset".

You are saying that, not only did you not value your marriage, wife and children, you thought SHE didn't value you, her marriage and children either. That will show her how far apart you are in your thoughts about your marriage, and it will show that you still do not know or care how devastating this is to her.

Either that, or it will show her that you have little intelligence and do not know what marriage and adultery mean. Why would she want to be married to someone like that?

Everybody knows that adultery could lead to divorce. Even if you thought, at that time, that your wife did not care what you did anymore, you knew that an affair (never mind several) could give her just the excuse she needed to leave a bad marriage.

When I discovered my H's affair, I wanted to know why I should stay in the marriage that he so lightly pissed on. Those were the words I used. I should think that your wife wants to hear the truth about your feelings and disregard at the time of your affairs, and she wants to know why she should stay with someone who thinks so little of her. YOU threw 18 years of marriage away; she didn't. She will still have two beautiful children if she divorces you, but she will no longer have a husband who masturbates to strangers in front of his computer, and sleeps with several trashy women who will willingly destroy a marriage with children.

Your post above smacked to me of trying to make people here agree that your wife is wrong to walk away from this mess and protect her children from a father like you. Nothing you have said here suggests that she should do otherwise. If you want to give her reasons to do otherwise, you need to start with honesty about your values and behaviour.

Sugarcane

I am being honest. Delusion is a big part of cheating. I hid my behavior because I knew my wife would be crushed. I rationalized my behavior, because it's more comfortable than dealing with the reality of my behavior and facing the consequences. And, although I am an intelligent man, I convinced myself I could lead a double life. For many cheaters, at least for me, there is a sense of detachment where the cheating life and the real life are disconnected. It is the painful reality that you only really live one life that I am dealing with now. And the result and consequences of my decision to cheat has devastated my wife and kids.

Funny thing is I arrogantly thought I had my act together, and that it was my wife needed counseling. I have since come to learn that I have some deep issues (no sh*t huh?). It's amazing the reality or the "story" some of us are capable of telling ourselves to justify our inappropriate behavior.

I could share the details of my escalation to cheating, but I don't owe those details to anyone but my wife. I will admit that a lot of the attraction and pull of my behavior was the feeling of being attractive and virile and desirable to someone. And their is an excitement from the adrenaline. But those feelings are the ones important to adolescents. They don't compare to love, sharing a love for your kids, and sharing the type of companionship that can only be shared with someone you have a 21 year history with. I look back on what I was doing and I am disgusted, I almost can't believe it was me now, but it was.

So you have every right to bash me, but know it doesn't hurt one iota as much as seeing the physical pain my betrayal has caused my wife. The instability and insecurity it has caused my beautiful children. And I have caused myself the tremendous pain of losing that first real life which is so clearly the one I really want.

So why should my wife reconcile with me? Because it will make her happier than staying split. But if that is not the case, then clearly she needs to divorce me. She deserves to be happy.

For my part, I have much greater clarity about what I want and about the destructiveness of my selfish behavior and thought patterns, and about how much I cherish the privilege of loving my wife. I have agreed to helping make the process of divorce as painless as possible with the least disruption possible. My goal is no longer reconciliation (that's my dream now). My goals are incremental steps, I just want to be the best, most caring, most cooperative Ex possible. I realize now that it is ok to love your ex-wife and care for her. There is no downside. It makes my wife's life easier, my kids happier, and it feels better than expectation and tension. Maybe one day my wife will feel comfortable enough to sit next to me at my daughter's choir concert or son's soccer game? Maybe we can even become friends again? As for my dream of reconciliation, if I can't be dependable and trustworthy as an ex, if I can't work to help her feel more secure and cared for in that role, if I don't prove myself trustworthy, why on earth would she risk reconciling romantically?

So baby steps. My goal for tomorrow 1. Don't piss her off 2. Listen to what she needs, and fill those wishes to the extent possible. At least it's a start.

Thanks
DT

I wasn't going to respond to you because I am fresh in the BS part. I just went in to a Dark Plan B 10 days ago because my WH is having an affair and he moved in with OW.

What were his plans though? He told me in September that he had thoughts of leaving me. Then it turned in to he was going to leave me but he wouldn't go until Feb. What was going to happen when he left? Well he was going to move in with OW and live in her "extra bedroom". He would come here 3-4 days a week and watch the kids for me while I went to work. I would use the truck to get to work. When I needed groceries, he would take me. When I needed things fixed in the house, HE would come and fix them for me. We would still share our finances. He would be the best Ex ever because that's what I deserved for him hurting me so badly. Besides HE would be the one put out. He would have to stay awake late and get up early to come to my house and watch our children. Good right?

WRONG. At first I agreed to it. I mean, I wouldn't have to worry about money or babysitters. My life would be easier right? WRONG. What about the emotions? What about the PAIN? I would experience him leaving me every single day over and over again. Guess what so would our children. They might always think that maybe this time Daddy would stay. I could have lived like that, for a while. Then I would have snapped.

Now to your sitch. As far as being your friend, how are you friends with a person who hurt you and you can't trust? Having her as your friend and you still being in love with you ex that is still foggy talk. I mean you are worried about YOU and YOUR feelings and that maybe she will feel comfortable sitting beside you at the kid's events. Maybe she would never want to sit beside you ever again. Maybe her new Boyfriend or Husband will want to sit beside her. Would you be happy with you on one side and a new BF on the other?

Let me get this right as well. You have had multiple affairs in the past. She recently found out and started having an affair of her own and NOW you want to work on your M. What changed? You saw her moving on and YOU PANICKED.

Maybe the best advice you can give to her is to ask her if she would be willing to read the book Surviving an affair(SAA). If she agrees to that, then you could tell her about this place and maybe she would see that marital recovery IS possible after an affair. Give her an option but it will still be her choice.

Those of us BS who want to work on saving our M after our WS have one or more affairs seem to be few and far between and a real gem.

I hate to see any Marriage dissolve but I must say that if yours does it is through the choices YOU made over and over again NOT the ones your BW will make now.

Good LUCK

DTeas, much like SugarCane's wonderful post yesterday to the cheating spouse, I wish your message could somehow find its way magically into the email inbox of all wayward spouses. It's a terrific inward look at how infidelity affects everyone -- including the infidel (ones who come out of the fog, that is).

Thank you for sharing this.

It's quite amazing the difference in treatment a WH gets to a WW when asking for help.

'MM', how so?

MaiMai:

You haven't been here long, so you do not really know how it works yet.

Has Dteas been treated with some respect? Yes. So far. He has been answering some things correctly.

The 2x4's will come if he starts floating off line. He claims to have read SAA, and that is much more than many people who come here have ever done.

What is going to happen to Dteas is what should happen to him for the actions he took.

He could institute a serious Plan A campaign and work that Plan A until he succeeds in winning his W back or he decides that its to much work.

Right now, I would bet that its too much work for him.

DDay was Nov 11. Since that time he has done ???? to recover his marriage? He has realized, possibly, the destruction his actions had wrought. But he needs to address those actions and start Plan Aing to see if he can recover his marriage.

If his BS decides she doesn't want anything to do with him, then he is SOL. He needs to give a good Plan A for three months, minimum, to show some committment to this marriage, and to permenant changes. He may be able to bring his BS around. She doesn't have to. She can shut him down at every turn.

He has been wayward for 2.5 years. If he can not give up 3 months to try and change, than what is happening to him is what he deserves.

LG

I've been here longer than you think, I do know how it works.

Also, I think you misunderstood my post but I don't want to TJ. This subject has been beaten to death before and I'd prefer not to go down that rabbithole.

My bad for opening it up to discussion.

MM: If you have been here longer than the 22nd, then do a search. Scroll down 10-15 pages, there is another thread on that. Go another 10-15 pages, and there will be another one, and just keep looking. You will find several dozen threads discussing this. Why bring it up here?

I didn't miss your point. You missed mine. Dteas is here with his issues. Why divert the convo from that?

What have you got to help Dteas?

LG

I've wondered who you were from the beginning and had an inkling that this was a second or third or x#'d user name for you. What's your story? (Personally I'd love it if you were Mimi and had just forgotten your login info - we'd love to have Mimi back - she's a hero around these parts)

Openness and honesty is a marriage builder behavior. It's also a requirement in terms of service.

As I indicated in my last post...My mistake for opening it up again...I apologize.

My advice for Dteas?

Offer his wife the divorce, she's earned her 'get out of jail free card'. He knew fully what he was doing now he's crying about being caught. It's still all about him.

Once his betrayed wife if free from her rapist, he can Plan A to the best of his ability.

She's under no obligation to make it easy.

Sorry Dteas...there's no magic bullet to erase your actions.

Thanks Everyone:

I'd love to work a Plan A, but how as the wayward spouse?

Here is what I have done so far.

1. Stopped all contact. No on-line flirting, calls, texts nothing. I have not looked at porn or masturbated. I have been asexual for 6 weeks
2. Apologized many times in many forms. Can't say I always did it well, I did blame at times. But I have tried to correct that.
3. Given her everything she has asked for, answered all of her questions, moved out when she wanted me to. Moved back in when she decided she wanted to move out. Stayed with the kids when she went on a date. Ran errands for her on her days with the kids. Asked everyday if there is something I could do to be helpful. Have I been perfect, no, I pissed her off by discovering her new EA / boyfriend. I have pissed her off by blaming her. My mistake, but I have really been trying my best.
4. I have read SAA, After the Affair, How can I forgive you, and the Bible. And I'm not usually a reader.
5. I have been to counseling 4 sessions so far, church 4 times, church group twice, and 5 Sex Addict Annonymous meetings.
6. I have done two charity volunteer events.
7. I have seen my kids 47 out of 48 days since D-day. The one day I was out of town.
8. I offered to watch the kids all this week so she could take a trip the last week of vacation. Tomorrow she leaves for Vegas to spend 3 days with her new boyfriend missing our daughters Broadway review show.
9. I have cried 47 out of 48 days. I am not a crier. I didn't cry this much when I lost my dad when I was 13. I didn't cry this much when we thought would lose our daughter in 1996 or again in 2007.

So forget 3 months of Plan A. I am in this for the long haul.

None of the above is for kudos. I could careless about kudos. I know in my heart that I want to be a better man than I was the 20 months leading up to d-day, I used to be. I am just looking for what else I should be doing? I know patience is a challenge for me as is acceptance.

Sunday I let my wife know that I had stopped focusing on reconciliation, and wanted my goal to be building the best most cooperative, most stable divorce for the kids and her. I told her that maybe someday I would earn her trust as an ex, and maybe even as a friend. She cried as she left Sunday, the pain and anguish etched on her face, I couldn't help myself but I cried and I embraced her. She did not hug me back, but let me hold her. And I promised her that I would help her/us get through this.

I know it's anathema to many on here, but you can betray the one you love. I can't speak for all cheaters and I wouldn't want that job, but I have always loved my wife. Somewhere along the way, I lost focus on us, where our marriage was more important than my individual needs.

So yes, I am smart enough to know that my wife has a right to react however she feels she needs to. That her healing process will be her own unique journey to make. And all I can do is try my best to help her and care for in whatever way she wants and will allow me too!

DT