I posted a couple weeks ago about my relationship with my husband "J." We're separated for almost 3 months now. 17 year marriage, 20 year relationship, we got married "too young" according to him and apparently he's spent the whole marriage obsessing over what he "Couldn't have" because we married too young. Long term porn addiction that I found out about when he confessed a raunchy EA (that had enough physical to be damaging, but didn't become actual sex). We spent a year in counseling, becoming closer, learning to communicate better, etc. He laid off the porn that whole time, but he was acting out with drinking more. I laid down the law on the drinking after a very embarassing public gaffe on his part at the top of October, and he said he wanted out of the marriage a couple days later, stating that he'd been unconsciously sabotaging the relationship because he he hadn't had the guts to end it. At the time he said I was his best friend, and noone will ever love or understand him like I do, but it isn't enough.
It's been tough going on me, but I'm getting some clarity and getting less attached to the outcome. Counselor has us on NC except about bills, and I've been pleasant (careful not to LB) with any contact we've had. He's found excuses to email me.. an article here and there, and he's even put money in my account I haven't asked for. On the flip side, he's also spoken to a mutual friend about divorce and what it entails.

Like everyone else in his family, he's turning into a binge drinking alcoholic and is obsessed with having sex with other women. I've tried to detach and don't know all the details, but given the character of the company he's been keeping I wouldn't be surprised if he's had some success. I don't know if he's still acting out with the porn, but I could see it going either way. He's got to have at least one "bad outlet" going at all times. If it's not porn, it's violent video games, if it's not the games, it's the drinking, and if it's none of those it's overeating. Counselor says he's regressed back to the mental age of a 14 year old. <sigh>

I know I can't do anything about his addictions, but I'm hoping this is a MLC, and he'll get some perspective soon and he can address his habits. Yep, I'll confess... there is nothing I'd like more than to have him back in my life as a person who is honest with both me and himself and in control of his addictions... but I don't know if that's going to happen. Even he admits we have/had a good relationship, and everyone is telling me that he has NOTHING bad to say about me. Counselor says we have a deep affection for each other and a strong compatibility overall... but there sure are problems!

He's got some serious self-loathing issues due to his MB habit that got started when he was around 12-14... apparently his hyper-religious dad got a hold of him. His parents split about then too. I have all kinds of sympathy for him, but right now he's being a world class jerk. I want to be there for him, but only in a healthy way. I've been attending CODA meetings and start COSA meetings next week. I won't be accepting him back in any kind of romantic capacity until he's getting treatment for his drinking and he has made the commitment to be monogamous. I'm open to friendship- I'm the only one he REALLY talks to- but I need to be sure I'm doing this in a way that's healthy for ME.

Anyone want to pitch in on ideas?

Me- F38
J- M36
Married 17 years. Separated 3 months. EA/PA Oct 98 and possibly now?

Beyond the support, validation, and help identifying healthy choices, the real magic of the 12 step programs IMHO are the 12 steps. Are you working the steps with a sponsor?

Keep in mind I'm not familiar with the 12 steps. I wonder if it would help other posters if they were listed here? Could one of you do that for us?

Beyond that, I would put a time line on this. You can't realistically be expected to sit around the rest of your life waiting for him to straighten up and fly right.

Hi Soolee, I looked up the 12 steps of CoDA, and they closely match the 12 steps of AA.

Could you also list the 12 steps to AA? I think this could be a good thing for other posters.

I think you should do a Plan B. He likes your friendship so much that he needs to understand he won't have it any more if he chooses this life. Plus, he's more likely to hit rock bottom - and thus have a chance to recover - if you're not there to help him.

Cat has a point.

Do the inner reflecting; I think it's super important for your own conscience to do that - to look inwardly, self evaluate, and go forward with confidence that you are not part of the problem.

But...at some point he needs to know that his behavior is so damaging that even the one person who has always loved him unconditionally has conditions. He has to understand that there are no loopholes to his behavior when he's dealing with other human beings, that everyone has their threshold and will only put up with it for so long.

Are there any children involved?

There are no children involved. There are, however, 3 large dogs and 5 horses. He's living at the farm taking care of the horses and trying to get the house ready to sell. 2 of the dogs have been placed in foster homes, 1 is with me. I'm living in my grandparent's basement. :P

I'm working the steps and doing a lot of self-reflection... my big challenge is that I'm just not religious, and I have a hard time with the "higher power" stuff. But I'm going to meetings and trying to find my way. Because of this I'm light-years ahead of where I was when I posted a couple weeks ago.

I've been thinking about a Plan B... that and reading Scotland's story and a couple others. He expects us to talk in January, at some point, with the counselor, and I think that's why he's been able to be "hands-off"... because he knows we're going to talk in January. I've been Plan Aing him with every contact we've had for about the last 3 weeks. Not a lot of contact, but always pleasant, thanking him or a . In mid-November, he tried to get me to go in with the counselor and him so he could talk loudly about how he was doing the right thing, but both myself and the counselor declined. That's when we were told to wait till January. He's sent me a few emails since then, not JUST financial stuff... one a pep-talk about dealing with my family, the other about how he thinks we NEVER should have been able to afford the acreage, blah blah blah and how I should be "just fine, financially" when it sells. No, I won't. But that's another story. I haven't answered any of these. He sent me an article he thought I might like the other day, about social networking. I thanked him.

I'm pretty sure he's got a new girlfriend already... he's mentioned it to a couple people and it's gotten back to me. She's a party and booze hound, just like him. It's sad... I always wanted to go dancing or karaoke but he never would take me. It was better for him to paint me as the death of all his fun! He's hanging around with mostly all new people- visiting old friends here and there without saying anything of substance and bragging about his wonderful new life and drunken exploits. Noone is kicking his [censored] because they don't want to scare him off. The skanky [censored] he had the EA with last year introduced him to this new woman...a friend of hers. For all the partying he's doing, I doubt he's having any REAL discussions about his emotions... and if he is, he's going to get led on by Ms Skankypants from last year. She's an alienator, and not really interested in him beyond how he feeds her ego having thrown away his whole life just to spend one night doing the gropy gropy with her. She's in a serious relationship right now, supposedly, and not interested in him.

About him: He's got some ADHD symptoms. Not hyperactivity, but inattention. Family history of alcoholism... lots and lots of functioning alcoholics with HUGE tolerance for booze, and binge drinking pattern. Nothing for a couple weeks then 15 shots in one night. That kind of stuff. He's always searching for his next "fix"- and the most addictive stuff he's found so far is guilt and shame for sexual acting out.

I know him. There is a part of him inside that's just screaming over all this- but I don't think he can access that right now, just like he can't access his feelings for me at all either. He's very good at compartmentalizing. My biggest fear is that he's never going to snap out of this... that "drunken [censored]" is a destination for him, not just a passage to his next stage of development.

I have a meeting with the counselor on Monday. I have learned so much about myself through all this that it's amazing. I'm really not even the same person I was 3 months ago. He won't give a [censored] about any of that right now.. or maybe ever. Hope this answers your questions. Should I write a Plan B letter for you guys to check out?

I have been blogging about my personal growth and I know he sometimes reads my blog. It's at www (dot) chellieyoung (dot) com if you want to see where I'm at. I've been putting up a new thought each day. I took down my Facebook page about a month ago... it was too much of a temptation to check on him and see what (or who!) he was doing.

He's planning to ask for a divorce in counseling in January.

I have asked the counselor over and over again why he can do this stuff, and still have a reasonably full "love bank" from me. In the last year, I've gotten off balance badly with the co-dependent stuff, and became very controlling. I'm working on re-writing my programming. Abandonment, cheating, and addictions are about the only hot-buttons I have, and he's been hammering them all. I'm struggling with my self esteem- part of me is buying in that somehow I DESERVE this and that he HAS been unhappy all along.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble. I'd love to hear your thoughts, and I think I might try to write a Plan B letter just for practice.

Check out my blog if you want.

My nephew (his sister's son- 10 years old) just IM'ed me to say that "my stocking" is at their house, ready for me to come over.

This hit me like a punch in the gut, and now I'm crying.

My in-laws aren't perfect, but I love them. After all these years, they're MY family, too! I watched his little sisters grow up, and I even officiated his sister's wedding in March.

WnC,
Sorry for what you are going through. Harley only recommends Plan A for a few weeks for BWs because it is very stressful. My FWH did the same thing as yours, hanging around new friends, living the single life - pretended I didn't exist. The difference was that as soon as he was exposed, he did a 180 and wanted to work on the M (married 20 years with two kids). Plan B is to protect you from your WH's drama. Visit the Notable Posts where you can find some helpful stories by BS.

You might relate to the book "Simple Abundance" by Sarah Ban Breathnach. She wrote it after her D. It's a great book on getting back to "Self" when you feel lost. Your local library should have it.

He's totally exposed. Everyone knows about this, and damn near everyone has been openly supportive of me, except for his new friends and the alienator he had the EA with last year. She hates me because I called her on her [censored].

"J" is used to being the "good guy" and is still trying to keep this role, when dealing with me. Thus, no trashing me behind my back where I can find out about it. Thus, paying the bills. Etc. On some level he thinks he's already lost me and everything that matters to him, so now he's planning to fail at life. There is a lot of self-loathing going on under his surface.

I'll check out that book today! THANKS!

It sounds like a world class MLC to me, but you know your H much better than I.

The big, big clue is that your IC commented on how your H is like a "14" year old. I was told by my IC that my H acted 13.

You need to take very good care of yourself now. I am impressed that you seem to know this.

You have the luxury of seperation for right now. That may be good, because you do not have to see first hand, his selfishness and behaviors. They call it plan "b" here and I believe it is very effective.

Another piece of good advice is the Alanon support.

Don't do what I did. Live with them and try to change or control him, with your heart on your sleave for years. It is a recipe for disaster.

Please keep us posted. You can do this.

Hi cougar,

Hey, I just wanted to say that I know for some people it helps to think of their "higher power" as the program itself...

Just a thought.

Thanks, Telly! That's actually pretty helpful. I've had a hell of a time finding a DIVORCE support group that wasn't obnoxiously religious. I actually went to one, and the leader told me flat out that if I'd accepted Jesus Christ as my savior, my marriage wouldn't have fallen apart. I got up and left.

Yep. MLC. That's what his 3 best friends say, as well. Only ones NOT saying this are his family.


Don't be impressed. His "bomb drop" was October of 2008. I'm where I am right now because I've done trial and error. It's been a real trial, and I've been in error. I'm lucky to have strong support from my family and our mutual friends, and a counselor that jumps my case. Also, instead of obsessing about him and what he's been doing, the last two weeks I've focused ENTIRELY on me, and my issues. I'm getting healthy. That's my goal.


I can thank our counselor for that. He put his foot down pretty hard and insisted I stay away from him for my emotional protection. This is the 3rd time we've separated since his bomb drop, and each time he comes running and crying back to me, if I engage him on an emotional level.... only to freak out on me again. I see very clearly now that he's just got to work this out for himself.


I'm attending Alanon, CoDA, and CoSA. Also have individual counseling. It might be a MLC for him, but it's a plain old C for me... and I have the choice between whether I'm going to rise from this, or fall from it. I've chosen to rise, and I'm going to work my [censored] off to become a better person for all of it. I've already seen so many benefits that I can honestly say that these last 3 months so far have been the most important ones of my life. Not the BEST. But definitely the most important.


I did just that for a year. Him melting down like this, freaking out and being "DONE" is a blessing in disguise. I would have hung on for another year trying to help him control himself, with my heart on my sleeve. It WAS a disaster... I wrecked my health and my self esteem.


I really will. I need the feedback of you guys who have done just that. I have IC on Monday, and after that at some point he's going to want to get us together. Or not. I am uncertain as to what to say in a Plan B letter, who I should use as intermediary, WHEN to go Plan B (since I'm kind of there right now, with the limited contact) and all the other details. I miss him, and I hate to say this but he's SO bad at self analysis that there's a damn good chance he's totally gone for good. He's also been selling himself on him leaving is the best for ME. He likes his drama!

But the way I see it is that if he IS gone for good, I win. If he grows up and comes back as someone I want to be with, I win. I can't lose either way, and I don't have as much attachment to either outcome as I did when I posted a couple weeks ago. I'm just trying to get healthy for myself in the meantime. I really want to be in a healthy, loving relationship with a man who has a grip on reality... NOT on his "manparts"!

I've lost 20 lbs since the last time he saw me. He's such a horn dog, he'll totally notice.

I was considering keeping things as they are until we meet jointly with the counselor. Then, letting the alien in control of his brain just talk with the counselor there. No comments, no arguing, totally Plan A all the way. Then, when he's done, I'll excuse myself and say I need to think things over. Then, Plan B letter via mail to him and counselor.

What do you think? Would you guys mind looking over my Plan B letter when I write it?
-Wolf not Cougar

What kind of a time line would you suggest? Bomb drop was 10/2008 and this latest separation was 10/09. We've been separated for almost 3 months now, and pretty much NC the whole time. I thought timelines were a bad idea?

I don't know if he'll ever hit "rock bottom"... his whole family are just like him... functioning seriously bad binge drinkers. He's very good at compartmentalizing.

His tolerance for alcohol is alarming- once again, just like everyone else in his family. The incident that let me to pressure him enough to make him blow up and abandon me again again was him drinking a half a bottle of vodka in an hour and 10 minutes! At this party, everyone else was sipping a glass of wine and talking quietly. He really made an [censored] of himself... but par for the course when he's drinking.

I didn't plan B. I didn't know marriagebuilders existed until after I discovered my husband's sex addiction.

But I did tell my husband to make a choice, either his addiction or me, after we had talked about his "habits" for a day. I gave my husband 4 days to decide to see a therapist or choose his addiction. I didn't want to live with an addict. Period. Course, little did I know, at the time, I had my own dysfunctional systems to wrestle with.

For me, addiction is just something I won't deal with. I love my husband dearly, but my attitudes of addiction are really quite black and white. There's no grey. And I wanted my husband's addiction dealt with once, not 2,3,4,5, etc. times throughout our lives.

Addicts do NOT respond to plan A. An addict is incapable of having their needs met and incapable of meeting someone's needs. Honestly, I'd take that energy and work on myself. Or at least take that energy and be good to myself.

Does your IC specialize in addiction issues? I've found that normal, family therapists are not trained to deal with addiction issues. Is your therapist willing to read anything published by the Patrick Carnes folks? Seeing a marriage counselor who is not trained in addiction issues can also be more harmful than good.

I'll talk with my IC about this on Monday... I'm actually glad to hear your take on things. I'll see if our counselor is clear on the addictive side of stuff. I think he is, but I'll be curious to hear his background.

Yes, J has lots of addictive behaviors... the long-term secret porn and MB thing, the binge drinking (he was a non-drinker till about 6 years ago, he used to abstain because alcohol has always made me nervous, but started drinking at LAN parties when I wasn't there), computer gaming, overeating. He did without porn for nearly a year, then relapsed one day and didn't tell me for 2 weeks. I was more angry at the dishonesty than the relapse.

I read a good book that helped me understand this... it was practically written FOR J and his problems. "Wanting More- the Challenge of Enjoyment in the Age of Addiction." by Mark Chamberlain, PHD. It's a good read and helped me feel less like any of this was my fault. J is "reward deficient" because of how is brain works, so he's driven to constantly seek elevated experiences through alcohol or shame/guilt. It's bad news.