Hello LA and all,

My husband asked me to start my own thread. So, here I am. It has become clear to you (all the people who are replying to his thread)that I am having an EA (and possibly a PA). I wish it was that clear to me. What I am clear about is that there has been absolutely, positively no sexual contact between my male friend and myself. I have no desire to either. And as far as I know that is not something my friend is interested in either. I also do not feel that there is an emotional connection between us, nor is he meeting any of my emotional needs (that I am aware of).
I will admit to having a slight addiction to texting this guy. Not sure why. Although I do enjoy his company both in person and on the phone (however, not lately, but that is another story).

Why did I acquire this male friend recently? I was literally millimeters from filing for divorce. The only thing stopping me were the filing fees. My husband and children have been my entire life. My children definitely still are. My husband...eh.... I have had very little to no contact with friends I've had since before I met my husband. I certainly haven't made any new friends or have went out to enjoy myself the entire relationship. This is my fault, I realize this. I have not made time for myself, to take care of me. That doesn't allow me to have a healthy relationship with anyone...my husband, my children, my friends, myself. I have been a state of chronic depression my entire life. Within the last few months I have begun treatment for this through medications and IC. I am beginning to pull out of it and the difference is amazing. I am so sad for the way I had be living my life prior to now. That is neither here or there. Has not a whole lot to do with what is happening in my marriage except that before, I knew I was miserable in my marriage and the way things were going, but felt powerless and completely unmotivated to do anything about it. I just felt that was the way it was going to be and was willing to look the other way for anything my husband would do (including another A, I just didn't want to know about it). My focus had (has) to be on my children. Our 2 yr old is special needs and we thought for sometime that the 10 month old was going to be also. Luckily, her condition will likely improve on it's own. However, the 2 yr old, needs and requires an extraordinary amount of intervention and attention and will continue to do so for the rest of her life as it stands now. I just simply had to put my marriage issues on the back burner. There was simply no time and no energy. There have been days that I have been running from appt to appt from 9am to 3pm. I had simply given up. As time went on, I cared less and less and became angrier and more resentful of my marriage. In preparation for my divorce, I envisioned my life without my husband and mourned for the people in my life that I had lost touch with and the friends I'd never made and feared I'd be completely lonely. I had come in contact with this man (my male friend) several times and although I knew nothing about him somehow felt he could be very beneficial and supportive during my divorce. I am/was not attracted to him in any physical or emotional way other than friendship. I also saw a situation he was in with a female friend of his and felt bad for him and yet jealous that he was such a good friend to someone who didn't appreciate him. So, I gave him my number and invited him to call. I hadn't heard from him for quite some time and had written him off. About 3-4 weeks later, he called. We talked on the phone and eventually started meeting up occasionally for completely platonic "dates". I knew my husband wouldn't be ok with any of this, but being emotionally "done" with my marriage, I didn't care. When all of this came to light, my husband understandably freaked out. But I feel as if he is a day late and a dollar short. Why did he wait until I came in contact with another man to express and feelings toward me? Where was all of this the whole time we were drifting apart? It is very sad to me. I'll the let responses fly before I continue with what is turning out to be my autobiography. I look forward to your response and thanks in advance.

To see his thread My wife has grown away from me.

To see my thread from his A over 3 years ago

Please Help! Desparate and Freaking Out!

and
Withdrawal or No Withdrawal? That is the question.

and here.

Wanting to love me.

I didn't know what I was doing when I first started here so I was jumping all over the place.

Thanks,
Hangnthere

You are in an affair. Call it whatever you want to justify what you are doing to your H and your children but it is an AFFAIR. It is inappropriate for a married person to have opposite sex friendships and since you lied to your H about this R you already know you are wrong. On top of that a married woman with 3 children does not stay out all night or party like a single woman.

You say your 2 year old is special needs? My 11 year old is, too. I can tell you it does not get easier as they get older. I can also tell you that all of your children need and deserve an intact family with both parents.

If you ask me for people your age you both sound incredibly immature and selfish.

Thank you so much for your response! It is incredibly helpful. I think I'm ready to go fix my marriage now.

Thanks again,
Hangnthere

P.S. What things are appropriate for a mother, single or married, to do for herself...to enjoy life? Also, what kind of maturity level is expected for a 27 yr old married mother of 3? I'm very much looking forward to your opinions.

Why so defensive? Married people do not go out drinking, dancing and to clubs without their spouse. Mothers are home at night with their children...they don't stay out all night partying like a single person putting their children's security and welfare at risk.

It is obvious you are having an affair. As for appropriate maturity of a 27 year old? You have three children and a husband GROW UP.

Since you have been on this site for a while I assume you have read Dr. Harley's books and concepts? You are not protecting your spouses feelings and your time should be spent with him, not without him. Did you ever properly deal with his affair?

It's just as immature for a 27 man with a W and kids to go out. Who said M and kids was a party?

Enjoy life? Do you not enjoy your kids? I find joy in getting my 13 yr old DD a glass of water or making burgers for the family and friends. I enjoy exercising, it's for me.

I think going out partying is boring, been there done that. I was in a fraternity to boot. When I see ANYONE above college age going out and drinking and partying without H or W I feel bad for them, and sometimes feel bad for H&W who go out and do this.

They say that those who can't enjoy their circumstances are not a joy to be around, just like bored people are boring.

WE ALL GO THROUGH STAGES WHERE WE ARE NOT HAPPY! The people who weather those times become joyful even more when they come out the other side, and have much insight.

I encourage you to find joy in those small things.

Thank you both for your responses.

FF,
Why am I defensive? Because I am here for help and I feel that your original comments were not very helpful. My feelings. I did not some here to be judged on my maturity level. I may be immature. I may just be acting immature. My choice. We all have choices. Choices have consequences. If it is my choice to be or act immaturely, then I will have to face the consequences of that. I may not be making the right choice. But that is for me to decide.

Who says married people don't go out drinking? I know plenty of married people who go out drinking...with or without their spouses. Perhaps our perceptions come from two entirely different environments. When I am visiting a friend who lives far, it is likely that I'm going to drink and that means staying the night as opposed to driving drunk. H knows this and said he understood and was ok with this. How am I putting my children's security and welfare at risk?

Yes, I have read Dr. Harley's books and concepts, although not since my H's A. I admit I do need to refresh myself on these. I don't know what exactly it means to properly deal with his A, but I doubt that I have.

Mud,
I do enjoy my children very much. But I feel that I need a break from time to time. To regroup and refresh to be the very best mother I can be for them. My going out usually does not affect them. They are sleeping. I go out when they are sleeping so that I can be there for them and don't take time away from them to take a break. Up until recently, I did not enjoy anything. Or anyone, many times including my children. I sometimes felt as if they were a burden. I never wanted or intended for it to be that way or i wouldn't have brought them into this world. It was my depression taking over me.

I haven't really had a "been there, done that" scenario for "partying". I've raised my younger sisters from the time I was 13 yrs old, until I moved out at 17. I then had two full time jobs and met my H when I was 18. My identity has always been "caregiver", "wife", "mother", etc. Not a whole person. I want to be a whole person so that I can be a better mother, wife, caregiver, friend, sister, daughter, etc. I have gone from extremely pessimistic about my life to an extraordinary optimist.

If I am getting lemons, I'm making lemonade. For once in my life, I am in the driver's seat and anyone who wants to come along for the ride, better hang on. Except my children, who are securely restrained in the back seat.

Thanks,
Hangnthere

Sounds like you want to escape.

I want to know what a whole person is too. Lol. Post it when you find out.

I like rosanne bahrs line..

" When I ask single men why they don't get married and settle down.. they allways say..
'thats to boring, I want to live a exciting life, life on the razors edge.'
Then I say to them yeah, try staring a 40 year morgage in the face then.."

I don't know what help your self image will get by leaving and I am certainly not gonna blame all your marriage woes on one of you guys but I hope you will stay and both of you can get what you need for each other.

My mom took care of her family when her Mom died and she was just 16 with three brothers. She went on to marry my Dad at 30 and when they divorced 20 years later she never married again. It was the only man she ever slept with and my mom was a looker too.

She is 78 yrs old and sharp as a tack. goes out dancing and lol, when she was in her 60s she fell down and broke her shoulder and didn't even go to the hospital till the next day when it was,"just to painful to sleep"
Tough, beautiful, long-suffering, god-fearing and sensitive. I hope some counselor tells her that her sacrifces have kept her from 'finding herself'

Take your time before you check out of your marrige thats all I can say. Sometimes the boundaries we have put around us are the best gifts we don't see. You might be the canary that can't wait to get out of the cage into a room full of hungry cats.

SIO,

Thank you for your words. I will read them again and again until they truly resonate with me. I feel that they are really saying something. I think part of me would like to escape. Just temporarily, to get to know me. To be better for myself, my children, my H, everyone. I keep telling my H that yes, I am trying to have an A...with myself. A self I never knew before. It is new and exciting and may partially be fantasy, but I would like to experience it.

hangnthere, here's an oldie but goody for you to peruse:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=012315

I hope you find what you're looking for before you look up and realize that you imploded your life.

Often a young alcoholic will walk into an AA meeting before they've hit bottom, and an old timer will tell him or her to go back out and keep drinking until their lives have become unmanageable enough to come back to AA for real.

I prefer to give people the dignity of their mistakes. To give them the dignity of their experiences, failures, and their chance to hit bottom. That's how we learn.

The best any of us can do is our best. We try to do the next right thing, and if we can't do the next right thing, then do the next wrong thing. The important thing is that we don't do the SAME thing over and over.

Sometimes MY personal best is not "the" best. Sometimes YOUR personal best is not "the" best. And truly, only God knows. Not me or any other poster on this forum. Hangnthere, I give you the dignity of your mistakes (as if dignity were mine to give!), for your mistakes and consequences will teach you far greater things than any of us can. Blessings to you on your journey . . .

Thank you both!

canwemakeit,

LMAO! That is hilarious. But very surface and artificial. Yes, I am a mother and a wife, but I am also ME, and individual. What would happen if God forbid my H and kids dies in a car accident or something? That would be such a horrible, terrible thing. Would I cease to exist? I would no longer have anyone to mother and wife. If I have no identity in myself alone, then I would be (have been) nothing...just a mother and a wife. I am not saying that those things are not something I want to be. I very much want them. I enmesh myself into everyone around me and allow myself to become them. Put the burden on them to fulfill my emotions. I feel I should be able to do that for myself. Meet my own needs. Not saying that I wouldn't want this from anyone, just no longer depending on it. The only person you can depend on is yourself. Up until now I was unable to do that.

thinkinit,

Thank you for your support. Ironically, AA and NA have been helping me along this path. I am not a recovering addict (I hadn't had a drink in 2 yrs prior to recently), my sister is. I have been supporting her along her journey. Learning as much as I can about addiction, going to meetings, etc....and somehow saw how their principles could be implemented into my life.

I thought it should be known that I do not NEED to do with without my H. I would actually prefer to do it with him. Unfortunately, a few different situations came together at the same time and circumstances presented themselves in a way that made all of these transitions exacerbated by one another and very difficult for us to cope with and see them as entirely separate entities. And also deal with them individually, mean each situation, not by ourselves without each other. The things that makes it difficult for me to include my H is that his feelings from one event are clouding the others and he's linking them all together. He's freaking out. Understandably so. But it's very difficult for me to achieve the calm and serenity within myself that I'm looking for when he's suffocating me with his panic. If he could somehow manage to relax and be patient. I would be more than happy to share in this journey with him. I know that sounds like a load of crap, but I'm not sure how better to explain myself right now.

Thanks again,
hangnthere

The things that makes it difficult for me to include my H is that his feelings from one event are clouding the others and he's linking them all together. He's freaking out. Understandably so. But it's very difficult for me to achieve the calm and serenity within myself that I'm looking for when he's suffocating me with his panic. If he could somehow manage to relax and be patient. I would be more than happy to share in this journey with him.

UNLESS YOUR HUSBAND SIGNED UP FOR "OPEN MARRIAGE", NO HUSBAND CAN STAND TO LIVE WITH:

A wife who goes out drinking and partying
A mother who leaves her kids to drink and party
A wife who flirts with and talks with other men when she is out
A mother busy flirting and kissing and talking with other men
A PARTY MOTHER who lives to dress up, flirt, and party
A wife who has affair after affair and sees nothing wrong with it.


Hey if you want to behave badly like a teen party tramp, then at least get your husband on board with your "personal growth" by telling him you want an OPEN MARRIAGE. That way, he can party, drink, and have affairs too.

You are behaving badly for a wife, a mother and you give all us other women a bad name. But in saying this it will have no effect...because...frankly...I can see that you DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANYONE BUT YOURSELF.

********************EDIT*************

These things you do and the pain you put your husband and children thru is heinous. But yet, you do not notice what other people need or feel....and how you are busy destroying the ones you pretend to love....since you are so focused on yourself.

"God forbid my H and kids dies in a car accident or something?"


Yes, God forbid. If some tragedy were like that were to occur to my children, I would be so grateful I was with them and not out partying or getting coffee with some man.

"I enmesh myself into everyone around me and allow myself to become them."

This is a good self observation and something you should work on. Men, friends and partying will not help. If you really do easily enmesh you should strongly consider staying away from bad influences or unhealthy habits...this will breed addiction. Also, I understand that being a mom young is difficult and so is raising siblings at a young age. I have gone through this myself. Raising a sibling may not have been a choice, but having children was.

So many marriages break up when a young mother becomes bored and decides that she deserves some fun and excitement for herself - away from husband and family - and justifies it with excuses.

I know this post may seem insulting but the thing is, I have seen families destroyed this way. The beginning of the destruction often sounds much like this. A very close friend of mine who married young like me had a couple kids and was a really awesome mom. 10 years in she was bored and started going out, hanging with friends more and more and just basically partying it up. Anyone who tried to talk to her would get the same excuse...I deserve fun in my life, I deserve to have friends. I knew where she was headed, but stayed out of it. Within a year her husband caught her in bed with another man. Now at 34 (5 years later) she is divorced, and living a single life. Even had a boob job. She has dated at least 12 men since the divorce and seems very longely. She rarely sees her children which is insane considering that she was a mom that never left their side and doted on them constantly. Her 2 boys are just miserable without her, they see her a couple times a month but that isn't the same.

So, again..I hate to criticize *but* this thread just sounds way too familiar. I really hope you consider this and begin to treasure your family and wake yourself from the fog of your affair long enough to see what you are truly doing. You can find joy and purpose in your life without tearing apart your marriage.

Ok, this is my wife's thread, but that is crossing a line. **************edit************AND she has only gone out once and drank four beers in the last 2+years. Ignorance is bliss, but not for those around you!

I don't know if this is tough love or what, but it is downright rude. I love my wife, no matter what, and seeing someone try and torch her like that without knowing a gosh darned thing ruffles my feathers.

We come for help with our marriage, not a thorough trashing. Say something productive or go away. I had an A 4 years ago and this site and it's GOOD people brought us back from the brink. For that I will be eternally grateful. This site is once again exposing us to the things we did not see we were doing wrong.

I do see a lot of the signs, and I am not ignorant. I believe it is an EA, not a PA. I am here because I want to fix things for us so she does not need that emotional support elsewhere. I do not yet believe we are SAA. A compulsion, but one that has not yet become irredeemable. Our marriage WAS bad, and I understand that we need to bury the past and attempt to start anew. There are situations, obviously, which have stood in the way. We HAVE however, been talking like we haven't in years, and I have let her know that I will walk through the fires of hell for her no matter what the outcome. BECAUSE I love her. This is just how I am.

But we come here for advice, help, wisdom. To some, thank you. To those with nothing but negativity, we are not trying to infuse our lives with that.

My wife is a good mother and I am a good father...those two things have not...look at both of our posts...been brought into question.

Wise up and help us do the same.

Thank you!! For letting me vent.

Jim

I am astonished at the taking of other people's inventories that's taking place in this thread, as well as others. And this coming from people who are supposedly in marriage "recovery."

Hangnthere, have you ever looked into alanon? As you've probably learned, alcoholism and addiction IS a family disease, and just because you may not be physically addicted to a substance doesn't mean that you don't have the disease. Alanon's approach to the 12 steps is different than the addict's program because our "addiction" is attempting to manage the addict, caretaking at the expense of ourselves, totally losing ourselves to the point of not knowing our own feelings, thoughts, beliefs, and identity. Themes that seem to be in your posts.

Make no mistake, those who don't understand the alanon 12 step program will probably accuse you of being selfish. But be assured that if you do embrance the 12 steps in your own life, including working with a sponsor, you'll also get your share of awakenings and 2x4 moments.

It seems to me you struggle with acceptance of your life as it is, with being a wife, a mother, special needs to boot, with issues in your past and growing up too fast. Other people who have not walked in our shoes want us to just embrace "acceptance" and "grow up". What I often forget is that I am uable to fully accept something without a full AWARENESS of what I am actually accepting. That awareness comes from self-knowledge, and self-knowledge comes from introspection and rigorous honesty with myself. Only then can I begin to find acceptance, and only THEN can I take action.

If I try to take action without first awareness and then acceptance, I am simply trying to control things in ways that make my life unmanageable. It may look on the outside like I'm "doing the right thing," but without awareness and acceptance, I may be doing the right thing for the wrong motivation.

And motivations matter, more than anything. Motivations are where we find truth, and where we begin to see who we really are, and where we discover the power to change things we can and the wisdom to know what we can change, and what must be accepted and handed over to God.

Plus, going to alanon meetings is a great way to meet new HEALTHIER people and even have a bit of socializing, beginning to feel comfortable in your own skin, without the "stigma" of going out with your friends for a "girls night" that seems to be a cardinal sin with some people around here It can also help you get through the withdrawl you will feel when you cut your "male friend" loose.

And Jimbobalu,

You rock. Your defense of your wife probably made HUGE deposits in her Love Bank. Even a seriously withdrawn wife would appreciate what you said.

There is a story of a young street fighter,(maritial arts),and in his town he was considered quite skillful. He decided to go to the local DoJo and spend time with the Sensei there because many of the elders in town said he needed dicipline.
After a week the Master agreed to see him. He was invited in and proceeded to tell the Sensei how skilled he was and about all his acomplishments,styles and talents. The Teacher quietly listened and offered him a cup of tea. When the tea was ready and as the youngster went on with his story the Sensei poured his own cup of tea and then poured the tea into the young fighters cup and kept pouring untill it overflowed onto the table and the floor.
The young man jumped up and asked what he was doing with amazement at this act of rudeness and the Teacher said this.
"You are like this cup and to full of yourself, When your cup is ready to be filled, come back and I will be able to help you".


The story about the alcoholic and the street fighter both say the same thing to me. Most of us are so quick to grow up and seem to be acomplished in what we believe to be adulthood that we are constantly trying to prove that what we do,did,and who we are is OK.

So many things we do to prove who we are is OK when we are all just here for a season and learning, wisdom, and life are the real gifts.

I look at alcoholism as a social disease and its more about what we as human beings put on ourself as expectations from society or people before it becomes an escape from reality and a drug addiction. Hitting rock bottom in any addictive behavior is nessesary before we seek help. Then the scary work of self-examination starts. If we are honest we will see how weak we are without support from the right sources.
Too much drinking drives us to work. To much work drives us to drink. The past gives us bad habits. The bad habits give us a past. The pain causes us to fight or flight. The bottom line is fear is our greatest motivator. What are we afraid of? If I regret my mistakes I rob myself from the realization that I would never learn anything if I didn't make them.
"Show me someone who never mae a mistake and I will show you someone who never learned anything." Emotions are great lyers to us and were not meant to run our lives. They are there to appreciate life and when the truth smacks us in the head guilt will only help us understand we need to change, then we make the change or revolve around between guilt and trying to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. That has been the definition of crazy for a long time.

Some of the good people who come here have a lot of things that they need to work through. The past is gone and they have learned that they need to change their way of thinking and values. I applaud those who come here and bare their soul seeking advice from others who can identify with their situations. If people here can see a problem in their lives and/or a habit/blindspot it is good for them to point it out but, show them a way out. Don't just accuse them and leave them hanging without hope. Its just not fair. We all could be in their shoes and some of us have been.

Somebody please explain to me why all the alcoholism talk now?