I've been lurking around this forum for a little over a month or so. I truly appreciate the live saving tools that Dr. Harley has created and the group of people who share their spirit here. Without a doubt, this site has been one of the few things that has helped to keep myself together while I try to recover from a devastating A.

Well, I don�t want to bore you with all the details of my situation. As I�ve discovered in this site, a lot of our experiences have remarkable similarities. The highlight of my situation is that I�m facing a double whammy. My F(?)WW had an A with what I considered to be one of my best friends and long time business partner.

Here�s some preliminary info about the A:
BH: me - 37, WW: � she 37
Married: 12 years
Kids: two DD � 4 and 6
OM: 37 - Business partner and supposedly best friend who I met in college through my WW right about the same time I started dating WW 15 years ago
EA: 5/08 (but could have been longer)
PA: not sure if it happened
DD: July 10 2009 � discovered after stumbling into an astonishing large number of romantic electronic messages sent by WW that occurred on a time span of over a year
Initial NC: July 13 2009 forced by exposure to OMW who was also a good friend of my WW
Last known attempt to break NC: September 1 2009 via Instant Messaging

After DD, I started the process of selling my 50% stake in a very successful company that I co-founded with OM almost 10 years ago. But for various legal reasons it's going to take a while before I can completely leave the company. Needless to say, it�s been a daunting task to try R when I constantly have to see the OM. We don�t really talk but it�s inevitable to run into each other at the office. He�s also tried a lot of petty stuff to sabotage my exit of the company. At the end, he found himself forced to sign off on my exit to avoid me exposing the A and/or serious financial/legal problems (including me taking a stance that would have meant bankruptcy for all).

I reached a selling agreement with external investors but I may not be able to leave the company until summer 2010. So I know that I might just have to be strong and brace myself for a very tough time until certain restrictions allow me to completely leave.

The situation is wearing me down since I have to deal with unpleasantness both at work and at home. Having to be restless at work and at home leaves me little room to heal. I am pretty much 24/7 in a mode where I can't stop thinking about all the variables and the possible actions that I can take to manage surviving the A and leaving the company ASAP.

At home my WW shows little interest in really working towards R. She�s in that seemingly common �get-over-it� WS attitude. She says she loves me and wants us to stay together. But anytime I bring up the A she goes into AO mode and doesn�t even want to talk about it. Most of the times that I bring up the subject, I've really tried to avoid LBing. She just doesn't want to talk about anything that would imply she made a terrible mistake.

I�ve made very clear to her that at this point the primary EN that I want to have satisfied is OH. She thinks that the way to recover is for us to concentrate on "happy" ENs like RC, A and SF. I've been trying to do my best to meet those needs even at times when I don't feel good being close to her. Nevertheless, we�ve been able to go on truly pleasant dates and short vacations without our DDs. I can�t deny that we have a good time when we do things together. But after a while it feels very superficial to try to work on our R with just an approach of kiss and make up. I can't see myself healing if we don't address the A.

We had been doing MC for more than two months now. But last week she decided to cancel our appointment (without asking me) and she said she�s not going back. Her excuse is that she thinks MC wasn�t helping. But I understand that the real reason is that it was getting to the point where she had to confront her mistakes. She�s very reluctant to accept responsibility for her actions. Our counselor has made her accountable for trying to break NC and for not keeping her side of deals that we�ve made in our sessions. Being held accountable has made her very angry and right after our last two MC sessions she threatened me with D. She claims that MC is pointless because she thinks that I am never going to be able to get over the A. She also states that talking about the A makes her uncomfortable to the point where she wants to withdraw.

A few days ago I told her in a calm but clear way that I don�t approve her decision to leave MC. I also told her that from my perspective she�s not doing enough for our R. In this conversation I established that one of my boundaries is that she stays in counseling. She said that she doesn�t want to be in counseling with me. So I gave her the option to do IC but that she'd keep in mind that at some point we may need to go back to MC. She agreed to look for IC but from my side it felt that she accepted it to get me off her back. I'm not going to insist her again about IC but I'm definitely watching to see if she schedules it.

I�m currently in a state where I�m expecting to see her give our R a genuine try. Anything else feels unacceptable. Unfortunately, it seems like my WW is nowhere close to put a decent effort to gain my trust back or to demonstrate true remorse.

Waiting for my WW to get a clue is a virtue that is now escaping me. I�ve been working on R for only 3 months and it seems like an eternity. I am seriously considering going into plan B to protect myself because this situation is taking a huge toll on me. I feel that it may be somewhat premature to go into plan B. My WW seems to be in NC but mostly because the OM hasn�t answered her messages (he didn't really care about her that much). I am not sure if going into plan B when there�s NC in place is a wise move. Especially when there's a lot to risk as I can see that plan B may cause a lot of pain to our DDs. But I am reaching the point where I can�t find the energy to keep carrying my WW out of this mess she created.

I am looking forward to hear your ideas and receive support from this extraordinary group. Specially your opinions about going into plan B in my current situation.

Please feel free to comment and/or ask questions.

Regards

-- ElCamino72

YOu seem very smart and well grounded. This along w/ close friends/family will make it easier to recover. You are the only one who can decided HOW LONG to stay in plan A before moving to B. I for one could NOT do plan A, but people on here have had much success w/ it! Read up on everything here on this site. I would expose this to everyone whom your WW values their opionion of her for accountability.(Her parents, siblings, etc) She is probably still fogged out and in fantasy land, once her fog clears, she will probably feel very remorseful and downright foolish.

DUDE

El Camino, I would not try the IC route, that will be a disaster. Individual counselors do not repair marriages, they help clients act on CURRENT FEELINGS at the expense of the marriage.

Your wife is currently in a state of detachment from you and a state of fantasy addiction for the OM. Can you see how disasterous it would be if she acted on those feelings? An IC does not understand the state of mind of a WS. You could very well end up in what is commonly called a "trial separation" which would spell the end of your marriage.

My suggestion would be to call the Harleys for marriage coaching. They actually know how to save marriages, unlike 84% of marriage counselors. MC has a 84% failure rate and they don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage.

Steve Harley, for example, is very good at selling waywards on a program of recovery. He is not going to mess around, though. You aren't going to be just touching on the affair 3 months later; he gets down to brass tacks. He assesses the situation, lays out a plan and sells the program. He gets down to business. And he may very well infuriate your wife at first, but that is probably what it is going to take to bring her on board.

Then if she won't get on board, Steve can help you navigate Plan B.

Sorry you find yourself here.

EC,

Welcome to MB...so happy you found this website...so sorry for what brought you here...

What you crave most you're least giving, EC...you want O&H above all...then give it.

When she AO's, state truthfully, "You are abusing me. You abused our marriage with your affair, and now, with your AO's. Stop. Stop it now or you'll have to leave."

Mean it...because for one LB (one AO) she is making a withdrawal of 20 deposits...so working on the fun only, the RC, affection, etc., is keeping your own love bank in the red...and you're allowing it...maybe even encouraging her to do so.

Self-investigate. You do not want this marriage at all costs. You want a thriving, forgiven, loving and in love partnership in your future...which given your choices for contact, won't begin to even have a chance until 2013.

Whoa. The future is going to tear you down long before that. So maybe you really don't want your marriage...otherwise, you would have been O&H in your partnership...allowed the consequences to come from the truth...and not made your marriage second to that...

Are you verifying no contact in all ways you can? Sounds like you are if you last caught her breaking NC on 9/1/09...please know, that started over the clock...you aren't in month three of recovery...you're barely hitting month two...

For you to know that each contact resets the clock on recovery...she hasn't gone through withdrawal...she isn't experiencing the consequences of her actions yet...bring them. If she is verbally abusive, seriously, call the police. Do not tolerate that which continues to hurt The Marriage...

separate your hurt from how she hurt The Marriage...because your hurt isn't clear, it's intense, messy and ongoing injury because, as you recognized, seeing OM daily is like re-stabbing yourself...and that's your choice right now...because you are mitigating the consequences of her choices...of their choices.

Don't do the same with her...do not mitigate so you can stand her until you stop hurting. She's re-injurying with every LB...be O&H and tell her...to stop. Predetermined progressive boundary enforcements...so you aren't going from one choice to the next reactively...

There are steps before you hit Plan B...too early and you aren't doing it for The Marriage...too late, and well, you aren't doing it for The Marriage.

She wiped out your marriage...make the groundrules for YOU for your new marriage...the goal of recovery...do not take abuse (that's your half)...learn healthy boundary enforcements...and that you cause a lot of your own pain...please stop that, too.

You're worth everything...you are her real partner, her true spouse...he is nothing but fantasy...not real, a distracting game, a deadly one...his betrayal of you...says NOTHING about you...and everything about him.

Same for your WW.

Get to really understand this...don't take what you don't control...that evades your real responsibility. Make sure you're O&H with every statement...everything said and not said (lies by omission)...leave the room when she AO's...state why you're leaving and when you'll resume the discussion...next AO, leave the house...same requirements on you to set the duration and state it ahead of time...next AO, you leave for overnight with the children...each time, take them with you...her AO's harm them. Her affair harmed and harms them.

Get to understand this well...accept it...work it through in your head...so you can really save your marriage.

LA

Whatever you do...don't move out.

I see you considering Plan B and fear that you think Plan B means moving out and leaving your dd's with your wife until she wakes up.

However, doing so places you in a horrible position should you divorce. You'll basically be consigning yourself to being an every other weekend and wednesday dinner father.

IF you end up going to Plan B, it's because your wife moved out. She's the one that had the affair and being uncooperative in the recovery...not you.

Mr. W

EC, I would like to touch on one important point. You said:
One of the building blocks of R involves the WS disclosing ALL of the details of the A. In other words, you have a right to ask everything, and she must answer everything. One of the threads recently (I think he/she still posts) was a BS who years later found out some details of the A that the WS lied about earlier. Guess what: it is a brand new d-day, and the recovery clock sets back to zero again.

Because of this (as well as recent attempted contact), it doesn't sound like you have even started recovery yet. I don't blame you for feeling discouraged. You need a plan, and that's what MB provides.

Also, since OM is local, and it was going on for over a year, unfortunately you can be assured that it was a PA. Sorry.

Wow, I am really touched by your thoughts and quick support. It's remarkable to find a group of people willing to share their experience and put time in helping perfect strangers to overcome their issues.


Hey Dude, you're right about how long to stay in Plan A is my decision. This is something I control. I haven't exposed my wife to anybody close to her. I've left our families out of this since I am not convinced that involving them would actually help. I think that involving our families may end up doing more damage than helping. But I am not ruling it out completely.

My wife is the text book case where she really tries to maintain an image of "good girl" in front of family, friends and me. We are one of those couples that a lot of people compliment for being an example of a great marriage - turns out to be nothing further from the truth. Maybe a shake down of this false image may bring a good dose of reality. I may need to consider exposure a little better.

Hey ML, I think you have a very good point. I'll try to reverse the IC tactic. At the beginning of MC she was trying to lead the counselor into blame-shifting but the counselor stopped her on her tracks many times. But IMO even MC has taken way too long to delve into our actual problems.

You may have noticed by now that I am not a native English speaker/writer. For me and my WW it will be a challenge to tackle these issues in a foreign language. I am a little more fluent in English than her. We both speak good enough English (we lived in the continental US for a little over 5yrs). But these conversations are hard to do over the phone in a language that is not our mother tongue. BTW, I'd ask MBers to bear with me in my posts here - expect a lot to be lost in translation. I guess I'll still make an appointment with the Harleys and see how it goes. If anybody knows a good MC that can speak spanish please let me know.

I see what you mean. I've normally avoided conflict with my wife. It's hard to explain because in my line of work I can effectively confront conflict and people say I am good at approaching problems in a non-sense kind of way. But when it comes to my wife I just don't want to make her uncomfortable. I didn't think that taking a firm stance had to do with O&H but I can see where you're going with this.

O&H is something I'll have to put a more conscious effort to improve. My WW tells me that I sound like a robot when I'm so honest with her because she's not used to it. I think that I've been laying all my cards on the table but probably not confronting her when she's trying to mentally abuse me.

She even went as far as tell me that I sound "intimidating" when I try to O&H. I said that the word "intimidation" is very strong because of the physical abuse implications. I've rarely have had AOs with her in our 12 years of marriage. And never been even remotely close to physical abuse. The point is that she tries to manipulate me into not being O&H and her general attitude is very negative when I try. I should reaffirm myself that me being O&H is something I do have control of and that I have to continue practicing.

Yes, that's the hard truth. When you look at it, this means that I haven't even started in this marathon. But I need to keep measuring my run in feet - I shouldn't measure it in miles just yet.

I've been monitoring. In the first month my WW had quite a few attempts to reach the OM. But I haven't seen a response from OM to her messages.

She's got a little sneakier in the way she tries to contact the OM. She puts these general but obviously targeted messages in her status on Fakebook and Massenger. I have confronted her about these messages and she always has an excuse that will insult the intelligence of an ant. The 9/1 NC attempt was a message she put in her status wishing a mysterious "special friend" a happy birthday. When I asked, my WW, said that it was for a girl friend of her. When I investigated, the girl friend's birthday was more than 3 weeks away and the OM's birthday was just the day before. When my WW had no choice but admit the message was directed to the OM, she gave a very empty apology that didn't last 10 seconds and walked away from the room.

Just two weeks ago she was posting more ambiguous stuff in her Fakebook status. After that one I was very clear to her that this message hurt my feelings. Once again she gave me an empty apology. This time I said I wasn't going to accept that apology because it didn't sound sincere. I stayed withdrawn from her (pretty much completely ignoring her) for 4-5 days).

After that I explained her why I didn't accept her apology: 1) she said I'm sorry just once but asked about how I found out about the message at least 10 times, 2) she didn't ask me or say anything about why the message was so hurtful to me, 3) didn't accept her mistake or showed remorse, r) She justified her actions by saying that I know she's stubborn but she loves me. That was last week and she hasn't tried to apologize again. I just can't expect her to apologize but now I am seriously considering canceling her Fakebook, Massenger, Email accounts if used again for WS purposes.

I like this statement so much that I'm placing it in my list of "things to do" that I've been keeping and reading every morning.


This rings true. Now, I am sure that enforcing boundaries will cause a great deal of resistance and conflict. I need to prepare myself the outcome of standing up to her and to stop the abuse. The part of creating my own pain is something that I need to recognize and better understand.

I like the idea of raising the bar everytime. I also need to have planned responses to her AO. Makes a lot of sense.


Hey Mr. W. Last time my WW threatened with D, I told her that I wouldn't stop her. It got to the point where I put her in the position to take the option to leave the house. I said that she shouldn't worry about me or our DDs since I would take care of everything - which I'm really willing to do. She got really mad and offended that I was questioning her love for our DDs. She said that she'd never leave the house. She cited a well known local law about home abandonment and that she wasn't stupid enough to leave because of it.

Right after DDay I stayed out of my house for about 5 days. This has been one of the darkest and hurtful times of my life. Our DDs were clearly affected by the whole ordeal. I come from a family of divorced parents and I don't want my DDs to go through the same. Either one of us leaving the house will be very difficult for our DDs. Becoming a every-other-weekend dad is the single most scary aspect of this situation.

I've consulted my personal attorney and he says that in our jurisdiction is very difficult for the father to get full custody. According to him, only blatant cases where the mother has been convicted of a crime, abandonment or where the mother doesn't have interest in the children is when the father gets custody. This is something I'm willing to fight but I'm being realistic about my chances. When the right moment comes I'll put all my resources behind that battle. But I need to be sure when to do that since I very well know that involving a blood-thirsty lawyer may have no turning back. I am not ruling out D and if I reach the point to make that decision then it will be outright war to what's fair for me and my DDs.


Thanks to all for your advise. It's truly appreciated.

--ElCamino72

Go to a Marriage Builders weekend.

That would be the BEST use of your time and resources!

You are not truly recovering...becuase you can't until she owns her part in this...

Hey IS,

My WW is very reluctant to disclose details. It seems to be a pattern with WS. I got her to talk about the details just once. But after that time, my WW says that she doesn't think it helps to talk again about the details of the A.

The thing is that my WW introduced me to the OM just a few weeks after we started dating back in college (15yrs ago). They knew each other and my WW would tell me that she wanted to introduce me to this guy that according to her was very driven like myself. That person was the OM. Shortly after the OM and I meeting we started talking about forming a company which we did a few years later.

When I confronted my WW in DDay, she confessed that the OM and her used to date before she met me. But she walked away from him when the OM got a girl pregnant. My WW claimed that she never had closure of her relationship with the OM. This was the excuse she gave me for the A. Before DDay, she never even hinted that the OM and her dated. She always talked about him like a good friend.

When my WW and I got married, right after my college graduation, we moved to the US. Back then, for about 3yrs, we lost contact with OM. I remember her asking me if I knew the whereabouts of OM and saying that I should to try to find him. Then one day, out of nowhere, she "miraculously" ran into the OMWs in a business trip of her to another state. That's how we got back in contact with OM. At the time I thought that the great coincidence of my WW finding OM was a sign of fate that he and I were destined to create the company we always talked about in college. What hurts me is that the story of the miracle encounter was one that I cherished and that I told very proudly. Now, even though she won't admit it, I believe that fate had nothing to do with that encounter.

Two years later, back in the dotcom years, we moved near the OM to the north east US (in a whole different state) to start the company. At the time, I remember some situations that prompted me to think that my WW had an estrange relationship with OM. But I'd feel guilty just by thinking that my wife or friend would do something like that and immediately dismissed any suspicion.

We all moved back to our home country and the company really took off. We've lived close to the OM for the last 10years. We live in the same neighborhood and the OM is literally my parent's next door neighbor. So running into him when I visit my parents is yet another trigger. So the point is that I don't really know how long this A has been going on. It could be anything between 12 to 1-1/2years She claims that it started last year but I don't know what to believe.

She swears that it never reached PA. I don't have proof of one way or the other. In one of messages that I discovered, about a week prior to DDay, my WW was asking the OM if "next week we close the deal". That sounded like they hadn't been there yet. But to me it being PA or EA doesn't make much of a difference. Really. I still feel betrayed in a way beyond explanation.

To be honest, the details about the A don't really kill me at this point. In the first month after DDay the lack of knowledge was something that would cause great grief. But at this point I'm just assuming the worst.

Thanks

--ElCamino72

ElCamino,

I think I am going to say about the same thing as everyone else. First, exposure is to end the affair, and frankly from what you have said, she is still in affair mode. She is not only ducking her decisions to have the affair, she is actively seeking more contact with the OM. I would recommend exposing to those in your/her family that might talk with her and help your marriage. That is actually what exposure is: seeking help from those outside your marriage that might help to preserve it.

Next, I would strongly recommend that you do some reading of the articles that Harley has placed on this site. I would recommend the "four rules for a good marriage", I would recommend the articles on the policies of "radical honesty"and "joint agreement".

I believe they will give you some insight into this situation. I understand your concern about counseling in a second/third/whatever language. A lot of recovery is about words and how they are used. Your counselor sounds excellent. I would recommend that you continue with the MC even if your W won't.

I will tell you that your english is excellent and it was not obvious that it is not your native language. I make more typo's than you do that is for sure.

I hope you keep posting and asking questions.

God Bless,

JL

El Camino,

Don't sell yourself short on getting custody or at least 50/50. Every lawyer in every juristicion says this. The reality is MANY fathers fall on their swords when they hear this.

If custody becomes a battle, you need to start preparing now. The good thing is most of things that you need to do will be under the radar and does not involve a lawyer. The kicker? What you do now to prepare will make you a better father. Here's a synopsis on what you need to do.

1. Surf the web or go to your local family court and see if they have self help custody packets. In them you will usually find info on how your state determines custody.

2. Find out how your state determins custody. Learn your state's custody factors. Memorize them. In your free time, go to a local law library and read up on custody cases in your jurisdiction and study how the decisions were made as they relate to the custody factors.

3. Under no circumstances do you move out of the house. If she wants a separation, she can move in with OM. And by the way, the kids stay in the house with you. You will face a ton of pressure to move out from her, your family, your lawyer, her lawyer, etc. Ignore them. Moving out will kill your chances of custody.

4. Be VERY aware if your WW makes hints about abuse, etc. The favorite tactic of a WW is to file a false domestic violence charge against the BH. It will get you out, and she will move the OM in and replace you. Plus it puts her in the drivers seat for all other divorce issues. Trust me, there is nothing worse than having to pay for your house while POSOM gets to live there for free. The kicker? The courts are set up to allow this to happen very easily.

5. Have a digital voice recorder going at all times if WW starts to make hints of abuse. It will save you.

6. Take the kids to school, talk to the teachers, take them to the doctor, sign them up for T Ball. Spend all your free time with them and DOCUMENT it. Help them with homework. If you know WW is out partying with the boyfriend, document how you stayed home while she was with OM. Judges love WW's who leave the kids at home to see their adultry partner. Your goal is to become more involved with the kids than your WW. If reconcilliation is going well, keep doing this. Never stop. Your kids will never forget you spending time with them. The only sure investment in life is spending time with your kids.

7. Read up on two poster's threads : Mortarman and Papaof3. Mortarman has a recovered marriage but was prepared to go to the mattress for custody. Papaof3 fell on his sword early after D-Day and fought a huge uphill battle to get a little less than 50/50. Also, my thread has a lot of good info on false DV charges as well as custody. Unfortunately, with the server crash, most of the stuff around my custody case disappeared.

Hi Lexxxy, at the beginning of last month I actually suggested my WW to go to the Marriage Builders weekend (the one that just happened last weekend). I now regret that I didn't insisted enough. Instead, we went to a weekend vacation without our DDs about 3 weeks ago.

Don't get me wrong, we had a decent time and this weekend was one the best moments we've had in a long time. Except for the first night where our conversation drifted into the A. After a strong discussion about the A the first night (fueled by her drinking too much wine), we decided not to talk about the A for those days. That weekend was the first time we've been to vacation without children since our DDs were born (6 years ago) so it was enjoyable.

She has read SAA and visited the MBs website. She says she likes the concepts but she doesn't seem to really want to commit to it. I obviously can't make her commit or to MB concepts or follow a R plan. I may have to get the schedule of the next MB Weekend and push harder for us to go. I also realize that it may take receptiveness from her part for the MB Weekend to be effective.

Thanks

--ElCamino72

Hi PSUBIKER, I'm sorry to hear what you've been through. The info you're giving me is making me raise the priority of the custody part. However, I want to be sure on when to go to mattresses since at that point there's no reversal. But I agree that I need to be prepared beforehand and not sell my self short in the opportunities of getting custody of my DDs. I'll do more research about custody.

A (perhaps good) side effect of dealing with lawyers in negotiating the sale of the company, is that I have even less desire to deal with D since that would make me go back to mess with legal stuff once again. Selling a company to professional investors is definitely not for the faint of heart � you have to be on top of your game to negotiate your way through a whole lot of pitfalls and be ready to watch a bunch of lawyers go at each other. The back-and-forth between lawyers got really ugly at times. But that doesn't mean that I am going to run away from going to the courts to pursue my case. Actually it was a good practice for emotional detachment considering that my company was something that, until recently, I thought was important.

On the subject of the OM moving into my house, although not impossible, it isn't very likely. I really think he never cared about moving with or having a real life relationship with my WW. I haven't detected any contact from his side and I have my ears very close to the ground on this part. This guy is known for having As left and right. At the time of DDay, I can account for at least 5 women that he kept contact with. I objectively don't think he's got any interest in living with my WW. She is just another woman in his long list. The OMW happily puts up with it so there's no reason for him to change.

--ElCamino72

El C - He doesn't have to actually move in. Are you okay with him dropping in from time to time and having sex with your WW in your bed? Because that's what will happen if you leave.

You are getting a lot of good advice here. Please hang in there, and welcome to MB.
Mulan

The only way to find out if it went PA is to have her take a polygraph. If she refuses, you can trust that it did go PA. Set up an appointment, let her know. There is a very good chance that she would tell you that she did have a PA, instead of risking you finding out everything.

Hi Mulan. You know, I accept that I was speaking BS fog in there. No, I don't want the OM making infidelity visits in my house. So that gives me an stronger argument not to leave the house. I'll hold the fort.

Yesterday, I was leaning towards leaving for Plan B but now I want to stand my ground.

It's nice to feel welcomed in this community. Thanks for the words.

--ElCamino72

ElCamino

I can account for at least 5 women that he kept contact with

If they are also married perhaps their husbands/boyfriends can apply some muscle to OM, drop a dime on them. Your English is very good btw.

NJ

Hi ouchthathurt,
As of now, I honestly don't feel that PA or EA make much of a difference to me. At the end, it was a grave betrayal. I'm OK with assuming that it might have been a PA.

I don't personally believe in the accuracy of a polygraph. So I'd still have some doubts about the results. There may be an intimidation factor with the situation of a polygraph that may get her to confess something. But I'll much rather go Plan B or D than force my WW take a polygraph. My goal is for my WW to earn my trust without me having to rely on a test. I think that I want to rely on facts and the input of close people/counselors/MB to confirm the level of trust that I should grant. Always keeping in mind that I'll never trust blindly again.

Right now, I believe that if we get to establish trust again (which I'm assuming will take a long time) and if she breaks that trust again then there's no more R and I'd go straight into Plan D. I don't think I'll have the guts to try R again.

Thanks for your input

--ElCamino72

Hi NJ,

It seems like all the other women are single. I know that two of them are younger college girls that work as croupiers at different casinos (the OM has developed a gambling problem in the last two years). There are two other women that regularly come to town from out of state for business purposes and I believe they are single. The other woman lives out of state and he visits her when he goes to her town on business.

At this point I want to be careful with directly exposing the OM. I need to be extremely careful with this due to legal reasons and for the sake of me getting out of the company we jointly own in the easiest way possible. I realize that a major obstacle for R is being a co-owner with OM. My sights are now put in effectively breaking that link. After I leave the company, everything is fair game.

Well my spanglish is allright. I am no Shakespeare but I can get the message accross. It's just that I'm not as fluent as I am in Spanish which makes me feel a little retarded.

I gotta say that I get a kick out of writing in MB jargon and acronyms in combination with my spanglish. Certainly, just like it happened to me, it may take a little effort from my WW to figure out the cryptic stuff that goes around here :-) Just kidding � I truly wish she could open up to MB concepts. I�ve been trying to introduce MB to her and she�s shown some interest but she hasn't committed to it yet.

Thanks

--ElCamino72

Hi El Camino,

Polygraphs have been getting better and better. You do need clarity to restore your marriage. Usually the interviewer gets to privately admit before going into consultation.

Your wife knowing of you on this site does not help us giving you tips in handling her. Is she watching this site?