My husband and I are from Iowa. 4 months ago he took a job in california and he had to move out alone because we could not afford to move myself and our two boys out at that moment. It was supposed to be only one month apart but it turned into 4 months.

About 8 weeks after he started his job he started calling me less and less and was acting very distant. I thought it was just because we were miles and miles apart. Then when I finally moved out here 8 weeks later I find that he has a lot of text messages from another woman, named "Cat". I ask and he says she's just some woman he works with who is almost 40. (we are 28) Then I find the call detail on sprint.com and see that for the past 2 months they called eachother almost 100 times and talked for an hour or a little more each night, or every other night. I ask him how often they talked and he flat out lied and said "once a week". Then i showed him my evidence and he said, "well, i guess I didn't realize how much we actually talked. but we're just friends. i needed friend".

on top of all this he is telling me that he is doubting our relationship and that he feels our marriage may be "invalid" because i had not told him the truth about something i did in college (drunken sexual act with another guy, but not intercourse) before i was dating him. he says that means our whole relationship started out in deception since i didn't tell him the whole truth about that and that our marriage might not even be valid in God's eyes or in his. ( he is a "faithful" christian)

Now he's thinking about leaving me but says he hasn't "made up his mind yet". We have two kids together (4,3) and I am pregnant with our 3rd, due in 8 weeks. He tells me I need to stay here with him and "love" him and "show" him that he has a reason to be here. In the mean time he continually texts with "Cat" and they get together just to "talk". He says that he cares about her, loves her as a "friend", and that there is nothing I can do about it. They are close and I can't tell him what to do so therefore I just need to deal with it. He said maybe if I do what i'm supposed to do to get closer to him then "maybe" this other woman will just go away. He swears that he's not having sex with her and that he is not attracted to her in that way. But they talk all the time and he is not willing to give it up in order to work on our marriage.

I have no idea what to do. He tells me all about my past sins against him and says that he "suppressed" his feelings over the years and now he thinks he made a mistake in marrying me b/c as he says the last straw was me telling him the entire truth about the 2 guys from college...which i told him a year ago because he kept pestering me about my past again.

He thinks that God will show him whether or not he is supposed to be with me and expects me to wait around until he gets his "revelation". He swears that this "crisis" he is going through is not about Cat but is about our relationship problems and the fact that he's not sure it's a valid union.

Am I CRAZY??? because he is making me feel CRAZY! Is there anything he is saying that makes sense? Is it REALLy about this WOMAN or am I just nuts?

He was very caring and called me and emailed me continually up until he started talking to her. He claims he was having doubts before he met her.

I am so confused. Should I stay and put up with this or should I go. He is real good at making me feel like maybe God never wanted me to be his wife and I'm a horrible sinner and I've done all these bad things. (i had a one night stand while drunk that ended pretty much as soon as the physical act had begun and i was bawling and crying and begging forgiveness b/c i was in shock at what i had done. i told him about it and i asked forgiveness and he gave it to me and said he wanted to stay with me. now he's using ita gainst me. it happened 7 years ago) he also says i've always been controlling and selfish. that is true but i wasn't always like that. i made many mistakes but i have always wanted to make our relationship better. i have been so sorry for the damage i've done and i've wanted to work on making our marriage better. but according to him maybe there is no marriage. someone help me to see truth. what should i do?

Welcome to MB. It's slow around here on the weekend.

First, you are not nuts.

Your husband could be reading from a script from Central Casting. Yes, all waywards follow the same script. It's uncanny. He's rewriting the marital history. He's saying he doesn't know if he can love you. The OW is "just a friend". Putting the blame for it on you.

First thing to do here is to read everything you can. Threads, basic concepts, articles. Get the book Surviving an Affair and read it cover to cover. Your husband is having an affair. Brace yourself, it very well could have gone physical. Either way, the process to break it up is the same.

Ultimately what happened is that BOTH of you created the conditions in your marriage that led to some needs being unfilled and made both parties vulnerable to someone else coming along and fulfilling them. Your husband, while sharing the blame with you here, earns 100% of the blame for the affair. Going wayward is NOT the solution to issues in a marriage. He has poor boundaries among many other things.

The vets will be along shortly to give you more details but in the meantime:

1. Read up on Plan A. You need to implement that yesterday. It's all about making the marriage as inviting a place as possible and making the continuation of the affair as difficult as possible. There's a carrot and stick part of plan A.

2. Read up on ENs and LB (lovebusters). Figure out your husband's lovebusters and eliminate them from your behavior. Figure out his top 3 ENs and start attempting to fill them. Be sure your home is inviting and warm, you look and smell great.

That's all I've got for now...There's so much more though so please dig in. This is the best bet for saving your marriage. You've come to the right place.

Sorry you are here but WELCOME.

You should do a lot of reading on this site and try to absorb all that you can.

Plan A What is it?

Carrot and stick of Plan A

You will get a lot of advice on here that will seem counter-intuitive. There are many people on here who have either recovered their own marriages or have helped save countless others, or both. This is a long hard road but it is well worth the journey.

Sorry you are here but welcome to MB.

Your H is gaslighting you, that is classic wayward behavior. Look that word up, it is literally where he turns everything around on you and makes you feel as though you are the one doing something wrong, not him.

For now, work your Plan A ~ the most important thing is to avoid LoveBusters, remain calm and SNOOP.

What do you know about OW? Do you know her full name? Is she married?

Take care of yourself and baby. Hang in there.

tinkerbell

Help me. I am kinda old and I found your post to be hard to read because there were no blank spaces/paragraphs. So my eyes tended to wander around and I lost track. I could keep reading and eventually get it, but you could help me and others by editing your post a bit.

Just click on edit at the bottom of your post and throw in paragraphs at logical places like I just did in this post. It would help me.

Thanks.

Larry

Thank you for your advice. I originally posted this on march 5th on another website so there is more to the story now. Basically I did everything WRONG in the beginning. I might still be doing things wrong, I don't know. I tried giving him the ultimatum after I found out more and mroe about this woman. He works with her, they are both personal trainers. I know her name, phone number, and email. She constantly texts him, still. She calls him everyday almost. They go to a bar together for drinks about once a week. He keeps saying she is just a friend and that she was helping him through this crisis. (the crisis being he doesn't know if we should be together or not and that he feels maybe our marriage is not valid b/c of the dishonesty regarding what happened in college before we were dating. yes, i didn't tell him the whole story but i don't feel it is a reason to divorce. i told him the information a little over a year ago and he didn't start acting like this until we were apart when he started his new job and met her.)

He is saying that because of the dishonesty on my part about the sexual acts (but not intercourse) that took place ( it was two different guys in college, two different occasions, alcohol involved. i think i posted it was one guy in my original post but it was two, we knew both of them and went to school with them but not "good" friends) are causing him to see our marriage from a different perpesctive. Bascially, because of the infidelity early in our marriage (one night-we fought, he threatened divorce, i ran out, got drunk, started the sexual act of intercourse with a guy and stopped it in less than a minute because i was horrified at what i was doing. literally bawling and praying for God's forgiveness. i never intended to do that. i told him the truth. he forgave me. it took me a few days to tell him the whole truth, but i did.) and the fact that he says I was controlling and disrespectful and emotionally unstable are reasons he's thinking maybe God doesn't want him here. He says God needs to show him that this is where he belongs and God has to show him that I am his wife.

Just today he told me that he really "loves" me but he feels that he can no longer have sex with me because of how he feels about our relationship. Honestly, sex was the only way I felt close to him. He has shut me out of his heart. Now he says it's because he would be selfish to get sex from me when he feels the way he does. I guess that is true. But is this a sign that he is really pulling away to the point of divorcing me real soon? Could he be stopping this with me b/c he wants to be with the other woman and he feels guilty for having sex with me? What am I going to do? He says I shouldn't think about him leaving and that I shouldn't be thinking about divorce. But he says he needs time to "figure it out".

I don't know. He just went on a walk so he could call her. I have no idea what to do. It seems my situation is not like anyone else's. I have never heard of someone saying that the marriage is not valid due to some stupid thing in college and one spouse being dishonest about it. Is my WH able to be won back? Or have I lost him forever? I am desperate. I feel that maybe he is right and God dosen't want him to be wtih me because of all the stuff I have done. I am so scared. I love him so much, even in spite of this mess going on. Would it really be God's will for a husband to leave his wife and 3 boys? My 3rd son is due May 5th. I am hurting so bad.

Great job Tinkerbell.

I want to reply to you at length. I have some things I must do with my son (7) and when I get him off to bed, I will come back and generate a post to you. Please allow time for me to read what you have said, think about it and then post a reply after I take care of my kid. That all takes time.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, the club nobody wants to join in your circumstance. My name is Larry and I am one of many helpers here. Personally, I have a very large soft spot in my heart for any pregnant woman under any and all circumstances. I guess that is nature's way.

You have found the best location on the internet to help you. Trust me on this. I know all of them and this one is the best in part because Dr. Harley is the best there is at Marriage Building and Surviving an Affair. Have you read his material on the site? If not, please do as a start on your journey.

It is usually slow on Saturday nights here because those who want to help those in need are doing their own thing with their own mates, as they should. Some of us work the late shift, so to speak and one of those is me. I will be back.

Larry

Larry-I am looking forward to hearing what you have to say. I hope you post tonight because I am pretty desperate right now. I know everyone is probably doing something on Saturday nights, and I am glad that people are but Saturday nights are not good for me. My husband never takes me out anywhere and obviously from what is going on he doesn't even see me as his wife anymore. I hope to hear from you soon!!!!

Tinkerbell:


Leave us start with you feeling that he may be right. He isn't right. And I will explain.

He is gas lighting you. You can look it up on the web. In other words, he is twisting your words and mind to believe the lies he is telling you. He is trying to make you believe the fantasy he is attempting to sell you. This just is so not right. And yet is so typical of what those in an affair would have us believe because they are in an addicted state and will say or do anything to continue their drug of choice, the affair.

At this point, it doesn't matter if his relationship with the OW (other woman) is physical or emotional. He has placed her before you in his eyes and that is wrong by every definition in our Christian faith. On this forum, this is called an emotional affair and is treated the same as one where sex is involved. There is no excuse for this. He violating the very foundation of the Christian faith's view on marriage and family, period.

At lot of your post was about your husband trying to control you. This too is normal. A wife or husband who is involved in an affair attempts to control his spouse so he or she can continue the affair without interference. Again, it is like a drunk or a druggie hanging on to their addiction and betraying everyone around them.

When first confronted, most waywards (adulterers) deny that they are having sex with their affair partners. Make note in your mind that if their lips are moving, they are likely lying. Your husband acts too infatuated for it to be a purely emotional affair. I just don't believe what he is telling you.


That is such a load of garbage he is trying to sell you that it would just be funny if it wasn't so painful and pathetic. See, there is a movie script somewhere that is called "What adulterers say to those they betray." The all say the same dumb things. And they are stupid enough to think what they are saying is original. It isn't. We see the same dumb statements on this board ever, single, day. Only the names change to protect the guilty.

Finally, in this first analysis, he is using your past to control your present. This isn't about what you did or didn't do before you got married. Frankly, that is none of his business and you should have said that. He nagged you into it for his own reasons, probably because he was already involved with someone and wanted to blame shift onto you to get rid of his shame and guilt.

Again, don't buy what he is selling. Think Gaslighting.

Next, you did commit adultery, briefly if I am to believe what you are saying. That has nothing to do with what your husband is doing, period. And again, events before the marriage have nothing to do with you or the marriage. They are none of his business. If he knows, he cannot fault you for what you did as justification for what he is doing now. It is all about brain washing you. Don't buy it.

What you did was wrong. What he is doing is wrong. How does two wrongs make a right? Not in my Christian faith it doesn't. Isn't it interesting that he is coming up with all this stupid stuff about the time he is having an affair. Wonder how long the affair has been going on?

Now that is all settled, we go to the next step.

Once you have your head screwed on straight, you expose. You tell the OW (Other woman) that you are pregnant. You tell her parents if you can find who they are. You find out if she is married and tell her husband. You tell your husband's parents and your own parents. If she has a facebook account, you tell her friends. We have sample letters here you can copy.

You tell anyone who might influence your husband. And you do it all at the same time, hopefully the same day, in a tsunami of truth. It is probably going to take you a day or two to find out information, so be patient. I could give you the quotes from Dr. Harley, but I won't at this time. My reply is way long enough anyway. Just trust me, exposure is your best friend and your wayward husband's worst nightmare. One of the reasons is that he has probably been lying his face off to his so-called "Friend."

You have another child to enter this world from your body. You must put on your big girl panties and get control of yourself and refuse to be manipulated, gaslighted or controlled. You have two other children who depend on you to protect them. Your husband has turned crazy, addicted, and out of control. You must reject all the garbage he is using to beat you into submission.

There is more. Are you with me so far?

And one more thing, has he ever hit you or threatened to hit you?

There is nothing, absolutely nothing Christian about a man who would abandon his pregnant wife and very young children. I cannot believe he is spewing Christian justification out of his mouth. (sarcasm alert)

Yet there is hope. I have seen men (and women) on here who were acting just as stupid, get their brains unscrambled and turn their life around.

Larry

Larry,

Thank you for your advice. I appreciate it. I really do. I have told my family about what is going on as well as his mom. She told people in his family so everyone knows that he is involved with another woman, whether emotional and/or physical.

As far as the OW goes. I know who she is. She works with him as a personal trainer at a gym. She is also an actress. She has never been married. I have no idea who her parents are, she is not from here. She knows I am pregnant because everyone at his work knows that I am. They all know he is married with 2 children and one on the way. (I know this because I have talked with other co-workers) So she definitely knows all of this. In fact, she befriended him because she felt so "bad" for him that he was starting a new job so far away from his family. That was back in November of last year. So exposure is pretty much done. Nothing has changed. It hasn't stopped them. My husband's family has tried to get in contact with him but he won't return their calls. Of course he won't talk to my family.

I, for my own health and the health of my children, am going back to Iowa to be with my family to have the baby. I talked to him about it. He was crying and upset but I felt I should tell him what was going on so he wouldn't freak out and do something drastic when he found out I left. So I am going to my family for awhile. I hope this doesn't completely ruin things, but I have tried Plan A to the best of my ability. I can't handle it anymore b/c he is not willing to give up the Affair even after talking with him about it and exposure.

Also, Larry, if you could help me a bit with this. Last night he was saying that this is a "crisis" for him and that he is in turmoil because of all the past stuff from our relationship and how he feels he was the only one trying for 9 years and how I was emotionally unstable a lot and would be disrespectful when we fought. He is saying all of this has caused him to be wounded and that is why he is going through this "crisis". I believe that I hurt him, I know I did. But he forgave me for all of those things. I told him about college thing over a year ago. When he was first starting his new job, about a month into it, he wrote me an email saying he didn't regret marrying me and that he didn't lke to thinka bout the past and that he loved me and couldn't wait for me to be in california iwth him. then in dec. he was acting distant and cold. that is when he started becoming close to this woman. you have helped me see through the fog. but i keep getting sucked back in. last night he was telling me all that stuff. what do you think?

Tinkerbell.


This is called "FOG babble."

In other words, a combination of rationalizing, rewriting marital history, personal attacks against you, lying, blame shifting to deal with guilt and shame and a host other not so attractive dumb thoughts.

He is addicted to the infatuation he feels for the OW. He will lie to himself, to you, to a Minister of the faith to get his fix. What he does NOT understand is that his addiction is fueled by brain chemicals that will one day just stop being produced. He will then wake up to the wreck he has made of his life, his wife and his kids and family.

Male conventional wisdom calls this the "Coyote Ugly" deal, where a guy wakes up with his arm around someone repulsive and gnaws off his arm to get away without waking her. This deal is coming and he hasn't a clue. But now you know. And the time period is variable. That she is way older helps. That she has no kids helps. Some infatuations can last as long as three years, but I suspect it will less than a year with the OW.

I get a vision of this OW, probably addicted to the hedonist lifestyle so rampant in California, reaching 40 and starting to get worried about her past and future. She gets this juicy peach of a guy under 30, fresh from the farm, she can sink her teeth into for as long as she can make it last. She will make it last as long as she can and she cares not that about you or your children. It is all about her and sucking the life juices out of your husband.

IT IS NOT YOU. IT IS YOUR HUSBAND AND THE VAMPIRE HE IS ASSOCIATING WITH.

Got that?

Burn it into your mind. Don't let your temporarily stupid husband beat you to death with his stupid sign.

He will lie to you, lie to himself and lie to his mother to stay in his addiction, just as if he were a drunk or a druggie. Don't trust a word out of his mouth.

Next comes recommendations when you are ready.

Larry

Recommendations?

Great job describing it all Larry.

So sorry you are going through this Tinkerbell.

I don't blame you for wanting to go back to a supportive atmosphere during the state of pregnancy you are in. Perhaps it is workable still.

Nothing soon will break the OW's spell anytime soon. Since you have exposed you have set off a lovely timeencapsulated bomb of truth which will take its own unique time to implode the fantasy .

Yes, as Larry said, do not let the horror of the addiction your H has make you question what a decent and worthwhile wife you are and can be.

If you go back to your support system, you can plan A from afar for a while. Talk only lovely things on the phone with H about the nest you are creating for you and the kids and the wonder of the pregnancy and joy of anticipation of the child who is arriving. Create a beautiful place wherever you are. Focus on the beauty and be kind and loving when communicating with H whether in person or on the phone or.....ta da da....Skyping (a great idea actually to keep connected if you must be apart and always look fab while doing it and have calmness and joy in appearance).

Have that baby and be the goddess you are.

Do not Love Bust (see what they are if you have not yet) and then......when the time is right

go dark (this is plan B and where I am right now and not such a bad place regardless of where it leads you and the family).

Be hopeful. Be sure of yourself and work on your esteem for yourself and your future and

perhaps your H's addiction to the OW will resolve.

Where ever he winds up, whomever he winds up with.....you will prevail in spirit and body and all other things.

TB81:

I am going to be blunt with you.

Your Husband is deep with this physical trainer other woman.

They have had SF all over the place until you arrived. Now they just have it on Friday night "drink" nights.

Your husband is a slug. So was I. I had an Affair for 4.5 yeears on my wonderful wife. Then she found this site, and she told me about it. And I worked long and hard to get right.

Your "Christian" husband is no longer anything of the sort. I think you need to move back to Iowa, have that baby of yours and start working on yourself.

You have admitted here to three different occassions of getting drunk and trying to have SF with college boys (the first time) and one year ago with someone else. "Becasue you were angry" with your husband. These are NOT the actions of someone who is fully in control of thier actions.

I know. I have been there. Its a LONG road back. A road you have not ever been on even yet. That is how lost that we were.

We didn't KNOW what the road looked like to get on the right one.

You need to look at yourself and look clearly at how YOUR actions are being tainted by your addictive behaviors. No, you probably DO NOT drink everyday. But when you do, you can't stop... and can't control what you are doing. Until your already compromised.

How many of your OWN personal boundaries did you have to allow to be broken to get to the point that you were undressed in front of a man who was not your husband, and realize, FINALLY that you shouldn't BE THERE?

It wasn't one, or two, or three.... IT was MANY.

Sure you were angry. And in a fight with your husband. And maybe you left to cool off. And these are good actions. But look where you went after that.....

Can you recover your marriage? Sure. There is EVERYTHING you need here on this site to do that. This site and the MB weekend SAVED my marriage. But I committed to it, as did my wonderful wife.

You have to bet on your fogged out husband to make that committment too. And you have to work on your own issues as well. If you really work on your OWN issues, than maybe what you will find out is that this WH is a bad guy, and always was. Or you might discover that he is redeemable, much as you are.

And yes, I could blame my betrayed spouse for ALL Of my actions during my affair. I mean, it was ALL HER FAULT. I could take her every possible bad action and fuel my drive to cheat even worse... And if you continue to believe that your WH had his affair becasue of your actions, he will continue to dump them at your feet...

That is something I learned around here. I am responsible for my own actions.

Sorry you are here. You are in the best place to fix your marriage, and even better, yourself....

LG

I have read up on the lovebusters. I have done those in the past. Not good obviously. Just wondering, if he truly wants us back, is it lovebusting for me to lay it on the line and say that ALL contact with this other woman has to cease in order for us to come back? at this time he sees that as controlling. I have tried telling him that in order to work on our relationship he has to stop his affair. he still denies that it is an affair. i am scared. i keep hearing other women talk about how their husbands swore up and down that the OW was "just a friend" and how they left EVERYTHING to be with the OW. I am so so scared that he will do this to me. His father left his mother when he was 2 years old. He was the youngest of guess what, 3 BOYS. I am going to have 3 BOYS. I pray to God all the time asking Him to show my husband the truth and to bring him back. maybe my prayers are pointless. I feel hopeless.

LG and reading have started the process of recommendations. Others will add their own from their own personal experiences and what they have learned here.

The collective wisdom of the folks here is just out of sight, it is so high. Yes, and Dr. Harley is a genius because he leads this site as only a genius could.

Listen to what they are saying. Listen to what they are saying about your own contribution to this mess in which you find yourself.

Absorb what every one is saying, probably more to come. In fact, ASK for more. I have some observations about Vampira which I will offer in a bit if someone else doesn't charge into the horrid creature's ghoulish lair. She is just flat nasty.

Larry

Thanks for your reply. I have to correct you on something about my past. The three things that happened on my part. The two from college were BEFORE i was dating my husband and they were two separate events, alcohol involved. I was not undressed and I did something sexual TO the guy but he did NOTIHNG to me. That was what I held back and did not tell my husband when we first started dating. I told him about it a YEAR ago. Actually, a little over a year ago. I told him b/c he was always wanting to know if there was something else from my past that i did not tell him. so he pestered me until i finally felt guilty enough to tell him. i trusted him and thought he would be able to handle it. i guess not.

the other thing was the ONE time infidelity that happened 6 years ago, not a year ago. SIX. I did get drunk, very drunk. lines were crossed. i wasn't in some bed with a guy. i was in a car. as soon as the physical act started it stopped almost as abruptly because i WOKE UP and said what the heck am I doing? I was crying uncontrollably and I ran out of there and was praying to God for His forgiveness. Then I told my husband about it all within 3-5 days. It was hard. He forgave me for it. We moved forward. Nothing like that has ever happened again. I do not get drunk anymore. i only drink with my husband. and we only drink a couple glasses of wine. i don't go out on my own anymore and drink like that. i know that it can cause destruction, as it did in my case.

now, after i got that all cleared up. what do you think i should while in iowa? how do i deal with my WH? do i just ignore his affair and act sweet or should i do something else? if he is in so deep with this woman then i feel i have no hope.

I understand. As far as my contributions to this mess....you mean the damaging things I did in our relationship of course. But you're not saying that my husband is having an affair b/c of me right? I am scared. I am feeling that maybe this OW is everything he's ever wanted and I'm just not it anymore.

Without lovebusting and making a demand, you can say

"Your relationship with OW is causing me so very much pain and suffering. I pray that you find the strength to break away from all involvement with her and you and I can rebuild our marriage"

If he then lays blame on you and your past you can say "I am looking towards the future. The past is over and done with and I have learned from it". No more or less to feed into his justifications of cheating.

NO

I do not mean your past transgressions, especially those BEFORE you were married. Your one time drunken infidelity has been forgiven by your husband and should be put into your past.

Advice on this forum is a collaborative effort. I always hold back to see what others will say. I never, ever think I see everything.

But one thing I will say, and that is your own contribution to this mess has nothing to do with those three emotionally, drunken acts of yours.

Let me post something from another thread:


That was written by a former wayward and I use her post to give you an inside look at the infatuation of adultery.

See, your big contribution to this mess is when you look at yourself to try to find reason among the insanity of your life as it now is. Ain't you lady, it is your stupid husband and the vampire who has her fangs stuck in his neck.

Larry