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I don't know....as in how much is it and when?? This would be ideal.....we need to do this.
Oh I won't ask then. gemstone, the price of the weekend is $1600 and it is held in Minneapolis. It is worth every penny of that because they assign you a personal COACH who guides you through the weekly lesson plans for as long as it takes to get it done. If you run into trouble, you can post to Dr Harley daily over on the weekend forum. He even contacts problematic spouses himself and works out the problems. If anyone can get your H on board, it is him. Here is the link: Marriage Builders weekend
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Hmm that price is gonna not go over with him I bet...I will try my best as I think it is worth it. So it says you start on Friday and it ends late Sat afternoon....do you stay until Sunday and go home but no classes??
I like the idea of Mall of America being close by LOL! I have always wanted to visit that place. I am sure my husband doesn't but I don't have to go there...just sayin it sounds like a cool place to see.
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Honesty in a marriage can cause someone to become angry, especially when confronted with a weakness, or a truth, or something they'd rather not face.
Pepperband yes this is so true....my spouse doesn't like when I explain the WHY I feel the way I do about his brother and time away....there is a big history there that caused me so much hurt yrs ago....over money, loans he co-signed for the brother, 2 pieces of land they bought together up there and of course his brother filing bankruptcy so we never got the money back....had to pay the balance of the loan off to save our credit from being ruined....he wouldn't listen to me during all this and it drove a deep wedge between my spouse and I plus his brother...it's like I have 3 people in my marriage at times over the yrs. I know he wishes I would never bring it all up....and I know it cause there is no excuse for what he did back then.
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Sugarcane, my XH was exactly as gemstone describes, in that his favorite recreational companion was his huntin' buddies. We had no marriage at all and he eventually left me for a woman who goes huntin' with him.
What gemstone needs to do to resolve this is to build a compatible lifestyle where they become each others favorite recreational companion. They don't understand that the mission here is to create romantic love, not to just meet emotional needs in a vacuum. Melodylane are you back together with this husband you mention here? I was reading your sig line and wondered is all....is your story on the site to read? I feel connected here due to the hunting and your posts are scary spot on....romantic love...yes he can fall out of love with hunting or whatever and fall in love with me again....that's the ticket.
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*link* When you should tell your spouse "We have a problem" Your marriage is not in trouble because you make complaints.
Your marriage is in trouble because there is a lack of care.
The link goes to the forum where Harley's news letters are posted.
You can sign up to have news letters sent to your email.
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How should you tell your spouse, "We have a problem."
One of the reasons that spouses postpone their complaints is that the way they complain often starts a fight. While the complaint does get the problem out on the table, it often wrecks what could have been a peaceful evening at home. And after the fight is over, the problem usually remains unsolved. So, how should you introduce a problem to your spouse in a way that doesn't lead to a fight, and makes it easy to solve?
First, this is what you should NOT do when presenting a problem to your spouse:
DO NOT make a demand. A demand is an effort to force your spouse to do what you want without consideration for how your spouse will feel doing it. "Do it, or else," is the clear message given in a demand, and it coveys an insensitivity to your spouse's feelings or interests. It's a Love Buster because demands withdraw love units. Instead of helping to solve a problem, it creates a new problem. A thoughtful request, on the other hand, is a good way to ask your spouse for help, because it takes his or her feelings into account. "How would you feel if you were to do this for me," introduces the problem with a willingness to negotiate a win-win solution.
DO NOT make a disrespectful judgment. When you present the problem, avoid expressing it as being the fault of your spouse. "If you were less selfish, we wouldn't have this problem," is an example of a disrespectful judgment that will get you nowhere. Instead of blaming your spouse for the problem, view it as a problem for you that is, apparently, not a problem for your spouse. Respectful persuasion is an effort to try to change your spouse's behavior that, in the end, will not only help you, but will help your spouse as well.
DO NOT have an angry outburst. Anger is your Taker's way of punishing your spouse when he or she does not give you what you want. It's not only an ineffective way to produce long-lasting change in your spouse's behavior, but it also destroys your spouse's love for you.
Granted, if you present your complaint in a thoughtful way, and your spouse responds with thoughtlessness, you will be very tempted to revert to your Taker's instincts by being demanding, disrespectful and angry. But it takes two to fight, and if your spouse does not respond positively to your presentation, simply end the discussion, and re-introduce your problem again later.
It's very important for both you and your spouse to do a good job meeting each other's emotional needs, and avoiding behavior that causes each other's unhappiness. But when either of you have a complaint, I suggest that you use this procedure:
First, state your complaint as clearly as possible, guaranteeing your spouse's safety by avoiding demands, disrespect or anger. Be cheerful as you discuss the problem, and try to make it brief.
Second, ask for your spouse's perspective on your problem. How does your spouse view this same situation and what might make it difficult for him or her to accommodate you?
Third, brainstorm possible solutions to the problems, looking for a plan that would solve your problem, and at the same time take your spouse's feelings into account. Avoid any solution where one of you gains at the other's expense. Don't give or expect sacrifice because that means that one of you will be losing love units so that the other can gain them. If you sacrifice for each other, in the end, you won't have the mutual love for each other that you want. But also recognize the importance of eventually finding a solution that solves the problem.
Finally, from your list of possible solutions, choose the one that has the enthusiastic agreement of both you and your spouse. That way, the solution will deposit love units into both of your Love Banks simultaneously. If you can't find one that meets that standard, keep brainstorming.
To guarantee your love for each other, you and your spouse must address each other's complaints as soon as they arise. Don't let your problems build up before you find solutions, because the longer you wait, the more love units you lose. But, if you're not careful, the way you go about presenting your problem and trying to find solutions can also cause you to lose love units.
You will not only deposit love units by solving the problems themselves, but you will also deposit love units in the very way you go about solving the problem, if you do it the right way.
Most couples lose love units whenever they have a conflict because they present their complaints with demands, disrespect and anger. And then they look for solutions that help one spouse but hurt the other. That's no way to resolve conflicts, and it's certainly no way to stay in love.
The better you become at stating your complaints with your spouse's feelings in mind, and then finding solutions with the same thoughtfulness, the more you will feel like getting to each problem immediately. But until you get to the place where you feel like presenting your problems as soon as they occur, do it anyway. Don't try to lower your expectations, and don't try to meet your own emotional needs. Instead, learn to become experts at meeting each other's emotional needs. That way you will have what you have always wanted -- a fulfilling and passionate marriage.
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Hi I have a question.....is there info around this site about what role friends & relatives play in marriage??
I am all mixed up on a big issue.....my spouse revealed to me last night that his top EN's are not what Dr.H typically has for men (RC/SF).....he said that is sterotyping all men and that neither applies to him... Dr. Harley says over and over again that the "top 5" for each gender are for average people and that most real people will deviate from that list, a little or a lot. Most people will have one or two emotional needs from the other gender's "average" list. Some may even have emotional needs that aren't on either list. But see below where I talk about exactly what an emotional need is. For example, while I am male, my emotional needs list has affection HIGH up on it, and typically that is on a woman's top 5 emotional needs, but not a man's. Yet the fact is, I don't feel IN LOVE if I don't receive affection. Dr. Harley says this all over if you do a little bit of reading. told me his top EN is male friendship... Like MelodyLane said, this doesn't even make sense. An "emotional need" is not a "need." You need food in order to live, but it's not an emotional need. You and your husband need to know exactly what Dr. Harley means by "emotional need." There's really no such thing in life as a "need." You may think you need money, but really, you could grow your own food and make your own clothes and build your own house, and never touch money in your life. You need money IN ORDER to have other people provide goods and services for you if you don't want to produce them yourself. You need food, but only IN ORDER to live. You need to show up at work on time IN ORDER to keep your paycheck. All needs are "in order" to achieve some goal. Those goals are all technically optional, although I highly recommend some of them. An emotional need is what you need in order to feel in love with the person providing it. It's not any other type of need. If having it makes you feel in love with the person who is giving it to you, then it's an emotional need. So, for example, for many men, sexual fulfillment is an emotional need. This does not mean that men "need" sex; lack of sex will not cause them to die. What it does mean is that if their wife engages in regular, fulfilling sexual relations with them, then those men will fall in love with their wives. It's not that the man needs sex ... it's that he needs to feel in love with his wife, which for many men is accomplished by sexual fulfillment with her. It wouldn't be enough for him to go off with porn or a prostitute, because that might provide some sexual enjoyment for him, and it might be fulfilling, but it wouldn't make him feel in love with his wife, and that's what an emotional need is all about. Do you see now why "male friendship" isn't what we mean by an emotional need? Male friendship won't make him feel in love with you.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Do you think that it is possible that your H has latent or active homosexaul tendencies? I'm sorry to ask this, but the way you describe his insistence on being with other men, and his lack of interest in SF with you, makes this a red flag for me. I was going to say the same thing. It's equally likely that he just doesn't see his wife meeting his needs (recreational companionship) as a possibility and finds solace in male companionship. Men have done this forever. It's called "getting away with the guys." It's sure not as fun as a marriage where husband and wife are in love, but it's not an uncommon coping strategy at all. Also, homosexuality seems less likely here since the husband's only male close friend is his brother.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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he has read the website here...told him about it 4month's ago but he seems to act like it is alot to grasp and since work is so busy it doesn't get alot of attention. It is a lot to grasp. And he probably isn't aware of the possibility of married people remaining passionately in love for life, nor is he aware of how much he would like that, so he probably doesn't realize what he could get out of really digging into this stuff and learning it.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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It's equally likely that he just doesn't see his wife meeting his needs (recreational companionship) as a possibility and finds solace in male companionship. Men have done this forever. It's called "getting away with the guys." It's sure not as fun as a marriage where husband and wife are in love, but it's not an uncommon coping strategy at all. markos, I realise that. I was raising one possibility that I saw, that hadn't been raised so far. The original poster did not see any likelihood that my suggestion was correct, and as she knows her husband, I let that drop. There was no need to bring it up again. However, since you have, Also, homosexuality seems less likely here since the husband's only male close friend is his brother. I did see that the original poster said more than once that the brother is the only male friend. However, I read the post carefully because it was long and detailed, and I also saw this: He doesn't like that I don't like his brother....the reason is simply I was/am jealous of the time the brother gets and I get none. and now he wants to add another male friend to fill up the top EN for him.....so where do I ever come in? I accept that my thought was incorrect and I do not wish to pursue it further. I just want to respond this once, since you brought it up.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Melodylane are you back together with this husband you mention here? I was reading your sig line and wondered is all....is your story on the site to read?
I feel connected here due to the hunting and your posts are scary spot on....romantic love...yes he can fall out of love with hunting or whatever and fall in love with me again....that's the ticket. gemstone, no, we divorced in 1999 and he is still living with his OW. I am remarried now. If I had used this program back then, I would have been able to save my marriage. But we destroyed it by building completely incompatible lifestyles.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Do you think that it is possible that your H has latent or active homosexaul tendencies? I'm sorry to ask this, but the way you describe his insistence on being with other men, and his lack of interest in SF with you, makes this a red flag for me. I was going to say the same thing. It's equally likely that he just doesn't see his wife meeting his needs (recreational companionship) as a possibility and finds solace in male companionship. Men have done this forever. It's called "getting away with the guys." It's sure not as fun as a marriage where husband and wife are in love, but it's not an uncommon coping strategy at all. Also, homosexuality seems less likely here since the husband's only male close friend is his brother. Markos....yes now that I have read all of the posts here several times I realize this to be where my husband is...he was just expressing it last night in a way that wasn't saying it plainly...but I have long suspected that this is his coping strategy....I did tell him I realize he has gone outside of the marriage to have this RC need met and I would like to be the one meeting it and therefore we share the experience together and I deposit massive love units in his bank account....I did say it to him like this using MB lingo....and he is up on the love bank stuff here also. BUT he seemed to be confused about that abit...and that's where he kept saying I really didn't know what his top need is and kept insisting it is not RC but rather male friendship....he brought up my 1 friend....saying he needs someone like that in his life....I do not travel with my friend...and my friend is married unlike his brother who has never been and has no children...we meet say for lunch about every 3mo's to catch up for a few hours on a Wed afternoon while both our husbands & kids are in school....otherwise we would be taking away from our families and we both simply don't do that...so this is the only outlet I have to met my need for affection/care & communication....I don't get much of it and we speak on the phone about every 2wks usually on wed afternoons so we don't interfere with our family times.
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[BUT he seemed to be confused about that abit...and that's where he kept saying I really didn't know what his top need is and kept insisting it is not RC but rather male friendship....he brought up my 1 friend....saying he needs someone like that in his life....I do not travel with my friend...and my friend is married unlike his brother who has never been and has no children... The point that he is missing is that these emotional "needs" are in the context of CREATING ROMANTIC LOVE. His friendships with other males don't do that. In fact, they do the opposite, they ERODE the romantic love in your marriage. That is why they need to GO AWAY. His whole life revolves around these friendships to the DETRIMENT of his marriage. This is not the need meetin' program, but the fall in love program. Anything that interferes with that goal should be excised.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[....he brought up my 1 friend.... - ....otherwise we would be taking away from our families and we both simply don't do that...so this is the only outlet I have to met my need for affection/care & communication.... but gemstone, you are not married to this person. You are not trying to create a romantic relationship with her. The needs are a requirement to CREATE romantic love, they are not actual NEEDS like water, air, etc, that exist outside the context of a romantic relationship. Her friendship does not create romantic love in your marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[BUT he seemed to be confused about that abit...and that's where he kept saying I really didn't know what his top need is and kept insisting it is not RC but rather male friendship....he brought up my 1 friend....saying he needs someone like that in his life....I do not travel with my friend...and my friend is married unlike his brother who has never been and has no children... The point that he is missing is that these emotional "needs" are in the context of CREATING ROMANTIC LOVE. His friendships with other males don't do that. In fact, they do the opposite, they ERODE the romantic love in your marriage. That is why they need to GO AWAY. His whole life revolves around these friendships to the DETRIMENT of his marriage. This is not the need meetin' program, but the fall in love program. Anything that interferes with that goal should be excised. Oh WOW that just got me....he is so upset over me touching this sacred cow of brother/hunting! And I total can tell you that brother and this activity hasn't helped my relatiionship with my spouse....it has caused so much damage....for yrs now....he simply doesn't see it this way...and when he did put it aside about 7yrs ago...I was doing the program myself/plan A and meeting needs as best as I could figure how here....he did break from the brother and showed less interest in the activity and more in me....and the our family....but then he had to work away and it all got messed up again and now he's so tight with his brother/hunting.....trust me when I say this he really doesn't SEE it AT ALL....he thinks I am a "kill joy" and that "I have always had a problem with his hunting" and so on.....I think of it like a addiction the way he acts....if something happens that might require me needing help at home and it would maybe interfer with him going hunting he simply can't NOT handle that....he WON'T help me out....as he says "he's going no matter what"....makes me think his brother has a spell cast on him while it's going on its so bizzare. All your posts are helping me understand this as it has taken all the deposits out of my love bank for my spouse...and I am trying my best to ignor that and go forward meeting those 2 needs Dr.H says to....at least until my spouse reads thru the list again and "gets" that his friendship isn't a need.....and that our goal is to fall in love with each other and so on.....I hope it happens tonight....he did say he wanted me to fill out the questionaire and I want him to also.
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[So, for example, for many men, sexual fulfillment is an emotional need. This does not mean that men "need" sex; lack of sex will not cause them to die. What it does mean is that if their wife engages in regular, fulfilling sexual relations with them, then those men will fall in love with their wives. Thanks for saying this much better than I could, markos. You hit the nail on the head. This is a critical thing to understand. Misunderstanding of the term "emotional needs" out of the correct context leads people to believe that they have to have these needs met in order to be emotionally healthy, LEADING TO AN ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY. For example, we have a poster over on MB101, who has been there as long as me, who believes his top "need" of sexual fulfillment is a need and an entitlement outside or inside of marriage. Since his wife won't have sex with him, he goes to strip clubs and massage parlors and pays to get whacked off. He feels perfectly justified because Marriage Builders told him this was his "emotional need." He completely missed the point that these needs are only in the context of CREATING A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP. It is the same with huntin and male companionship. It does nothing to help the marriage, but rather ERODES IT. The goal and purpose of need meetin' is to create romantic love, not just to meet needs.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[All your posts are helping me understand this as it has taken all the deposits out of my love bank for my spouse...and I am trying my best to ignor that and go forward meeting those 2 needs Dr.H says to....at least until my spouse reads thru the list again and "gets" that his friendship isn't a need.....and that our goal is to fall in love with each other and so on.....I hope it happens tonight....he did say he wanted me to fill out the questionaire and I want him to also. Your marriage needs a complete and total overhaul. I would get him to a Marriage Builders weekend and let Dr Harley work him over. Your H will have to change his habits and like you said, he is addicted. It is going to take alot more than some fiddling around the edges, gemstone. Don't end up like my last husband. Here he is today with his huntin' OW: here
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks....even I was messing this up....I get it...romantic love....gotta drum that in....and not focus on need meeting...romantic love....en's can help create romantic love between my spouse and I. Geez Melody that photo makes me feel ILL  My spouse has more than once hinted how he would LOVE for me to be interested in hunting!
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Thanks....even I was messing this up....I get it...romantic love....gotta drum that in....and not focus on need meeting...romantic love....en's can help create romantic love between my spouse and I. Geez Melody that photo makes me feel ILL MrsW says the OW has "bubba teef!" 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I too suffered with my XH doing all the hobbies. He worked very long hours- we had two kids- and he wanted to go to deer camp every weekend. The last year we were married he was away 40 weekends out of that year. If it wasn't hunting every kind of animal- it was working at deer camp- or fishing or whatever. I tried everything- he wouldn't even read the emotional needs information and I found it in the trash.
I'm glad you're here now- rather than have an A like I did. I didn't care if he hunted on a smaller level but he refused to compromise. Anger resulted when I tried to tell him that me and the kids needed him home "Well you just want me to quit!" He would scream.
He was different from your H in the fact that he never wanted to miss SF- even if he had been gone Friday to late Sunday night- he expected me to pony up no matter the time and pouted repeatedly if I didn't want to.
I get that he wants to hunt- but at the cost of losing his wife then I think not.
What would happen do you think if he went on to deer camp with his brother- you got a sitter and showed up??? You need to find out if anything else is going on.
His new wife loves to hunt- so they are made for each other.
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