That was such a good chapter, and I hope we'll continue discussing it throughout the coming week, because I think it's a really important one. I'm just getting a bit worried that we will only have two week days to cover chapter 4, so let's incorporate that today but continue discussing whatever we need to discuss up to and including chapter 4 throughout the week. (If your families are like ours, the weekends tend to fly by with limited 'me' time for the MB forum.)

By the way...we POJA'd again this morning. I'm going to keep the initiation of POJAs simple. Nothing complex, no double requests, no 'add ons' and hopefully that will make a difference.

I emailed him after he got to work and got settled:

"How would you feel about picking up a new blind for the kitchen door today?"

Then I promptly got a phone call:

"I'd be happy about doing that. Can you measure it for me?"

I said sure, hung up, measured the blind, and emailed him back with the measurement.

The general feel I got from his tone during that phone call was relief. I think that he has been waiting for me to ask him to do these things because I handle the money, and I know what we have available for these little projects that pile up and subsequently depress and frustrate us and, in turn, make his job seem so...unrewarding.

I get upset when he randomly uses his debit card without POJAing. He knows this and instead of us discussing what we have monthly for home improvements, they just are not talked about and don't get done...

It's amazing what you can learn from each other if you just try these concepts as they're prescribed.

So...Chapter 4 is about DISRESPECTFUL JUDGMENTS.

Dr. H describes DISRESPECTFUL JUDGMENTS as:

Attempts to "straighten out" your spouse's attitudes, beliefs, and behavior by trying to impose your way of thinking through lecture,ridicule, threats, or other forceful means.

I highlighted a lot in this chapter. Apparently it resonated with me. This was one of those highlighted areas:

A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever someone tries to impose his or her way of thinking or way of doing things on someone else. If you ever try to force your spouse to accept your point of view or do something the way you want it done, you're just asking for trouble.

and another...

Most of us feel our judgment is correct. When we hear others express opposing views or doing something differently than the way we are accustomed to doing it,we sometimes feel that their opinions and behavior will get them into trouble someday.

Comments?

Not a man here but I'll take a stab at this one just the same LOL!.....I think it's not a big concern to men...yes they can see it and yes they may know it's there but in the big picture it's a tiny blip on the screen...there are much bigger issues going on that they are focused on (work) and a blind or in my case a huge crack in my basement wall leaking in water just isn't enough to warrant a full out assualt on....when the basement really leaks heavily or it starts leaking in other areas THEN I suspect my H will look at it as "worthy of his immediate attention".

So that's my take on it....I have called and dealt with the basement people over it (it's under warranty) for 5 1/2yrs and they came out and patched it (4-5times now) but every year it begins leaking....so my H put kitty litter there to soak up the water hopefully....new home so this isn't something we should let go as it is our biggest investment....I asked him to handle these men that are patching it .....as I handle everything and I was fed up at that point....so he promised to call and did call...1 time (over 1yr ago or more now)...they never returned his call and he never called them again....I will not do it again....he told me he would handle it so I will let him handle it...if the basement floods....well what can I say.

Retread....this helps alot....I suspect your right here....as he has said it is a lose lose situation...a standoff will occur and so on....but he hasn't actually tried it to know this and has no other option for us to try other than doing the giver / taker method....he actually said that was the way to go about 5mo's ago when he 1st read it...he thought Dr.H was actaully promoting that and I thought did he read the same article here online that I did? He sure did but completely missed the point of it....I believe now he has picked up on it...and that Dr.H isn't saying operate your marriage this way but rather not to....so that's a plus....he hasn't read Chp 3 yet which brings this up for the 1st time so we'll see how it goes.

He has agreed to hold his questions for after the book...>I said that's not necessary....you can have questions but can we apply those things to our real life marriage instead of extreme hypothecial situations that don't presently exist in our marriage? and if you have a need for these hypotheical questions to be answered perhaps they will be answered through the course of reading the book here? He thought that was agreeable and I told him I agree he has a right to inquire and raise questions all he needs to and I don't want to stifle him or tell him he can't do that. He was feeling that way when I did the suggestions here to tell him it's a behavioral modification program or that it doesn't apply to our marriage presently thing....he feels he should be able to do it anyway and doesn't see or get the behavioral modification aspect of the program yet (I guess...as he insisted his height sernario was spot on still) I also explained WHY I was making this request to stick to our marriage issues due to his very limited time available (working 7days a week and it's not gonna change for who knows how long)and I guess this was the tipping point for him cause he said it was true that if we do the other we can waste valuable time that he doesn't have to spare on things that aren't a current problem.

It was exhausting for me to jump through all these hoops of logic with him...it drains me down.....he doesn't realize that this stuff is like a LB to me....I am trying to see it as just the way he IS and leave it at that...but I get tired of trying to say could we just stay right on our marriage please? He feels that nullifies his right to speak so I have to NOT do that but request it at times just the same...it's very confusing at times....but at least we actually sorta POJA this last thing on how to read the book and apply it to our marriage in real life.

One other thing H said he was "testing me....with those made up senarios....to see or guage my response reaction and how well I handle it would determine if he would be O&H with me" this truly hurt me (told me this on the phone before our discussion above) and it really didn't make sense...he is TESTING ME? So at the end I mentioned this to him and asked him to please explain why he is testing me. He said he didn't mean it that way but that he was trying to extract information from me for his own purpose and depending on my answers or what they were would determine they way he would go forward....I said that is not a way to HONOR me your WIFE..it DISHONORS me and hurts me deeply to think you would with hold beng O&H in communication with me based on "testing" me...it's not like I have had time to study for this test of yours or have notes on it to cram to be sure to get it right....I am human and have flaws and I am being O&H/straight with you here so I need to be able to trust what you tell me as being truthful and testing me or saying your gonna with hold being O&H with me if I don't answer a certain way is very distressing to me.

This was a bad one last night.....he was silent for a good long while...then said he could SEE why I would SEE it that way and that he wasn't testing me but just wanted info and would go about asking for that in a direct way from now on. I told him good cause I need to KNOW THE TRUTH....believing in something or assuming everything is fine is wrong...I only want TRUTH...if it hurts me or is painful I am fine with that cause it's TRUTH.

His mood at this point seemed to get very nice toward me...relaxed...the arms & legs unfolded and he wanted me to watch LOST on his computer with him which we did and we watched the Canadians CRUSH the Peguins LOL! I love hockey by the way....my team was already outted so watching Pitt's go out was fun!

Sorry I got long here.

What is his priority thought pattern. Is he concerned about some other things? I have my hot-list running in my mind most of the time. Things that pertain to work are usually on my hot-list and the hot list item drowns out most other things.

Also what was his childhood home like? What does his work life surroundings look like? Me, I almost always lived in a sub-standard rental as a kid. I worked in places that where the toilet was flushed, that was good enough. Most restrooms needed paint, had old plumbing, and were your old-time typical garage. Yea, I know not what needs to be in a home so no excuse on my part, but it influences what I see as good enough. I don�t get upset because there are water-spots in the washbasin or tub.


I might be inclined to give up too son on a few things but what is the most difficult thing for me is my W comes up with her ideas as to why she can�t do something or my ideas are not sound or sound dumb. On occasion she tells me I have no common sense, or we see things almost completely differently.. I just have gotten to the point I skip things I want unless I am willing to spend a lot of time and effort on something I believe in. It is similar to the idea �Is this issue/hill worth dyeing over.� If it isn�t, do the best I can to make my own happiness and not depend on my W for much.


Like I implied above. I have �A� importance items I think about. There are also �B�, �C�, and �D� items. Sometimes my �A� item may be a poor use of time or something that is just bugging me, so I do it first even if it is a �C� item to my W.

Alison Armstrong has several podcasts on the internet that explains how men and women think differently. http://personallifemedia.com/guests/668-alison-armstrong

Women are multi tasker's and have a list of things running through their head at any given time. Often they notice more going on in the environment then a man will. Men OTH are thinking about only a few things and are concentrating on those few things. They have a goal and when the distractions are not part of the goal, the distractions often get ignored.

No man ever asked his buddy if he should wear black or brown shoes when the guys go hunting, fishing or to a ball game. Why? Because shoe color doesn�t influence the outcome of the activity. OTH if his girl preferred a certain style and it made points (added points to her LB) then he would consider shoe and style options.

Throw in some heavy breathing activities and he concentrates more on the outcome.

Lou

Gemstone, I have read somewhere Dr. Harley says that when a spouse is resistant to POJA intially, it's because he/she still has a "what's in it for me" mentality. He/she is not understanding that the long term gain of a happy, fulfilled and romantic marriage is "what's in it for them". By looking at it through the directional lense, he/she is only seeing that something must be given up.

But since the outcome is a solution that both parties *enthusiastically* agree, nothing is given up.

DISRESPECTFUL JUDGMENTS

My talks about certain people in high government offices as if they are out to ruin the country on purpose.

I say I don't think their policies are good for the country in the long term (no free lunch IMHO) and we would be better off with a scaled down version of said policies.

My W tells me I am blind to the truth of what is really going on and I say she is sounding paranoid.

So, if my W has this feeling the US is being lead down the path of ruin on purpose, to be handed over to another world government or religion, and I see politicians as spend happy, thinking it will get them re-elected, and I don�t see the politicians actions as a purposely plotted plan to turn the US in to something else so another country or religion can take us over, and I tell my W what I think.

�IS that a DJ.� I also refuse to watch 80% of her type of news/opinion TV.

So far I try not to say she is wrong for believing as she does but there are times I think what she tells me and talks about is sort of irrational. Sure it �could happen� if a lot of other things fall right in place, one after the other and with little resistance. I don�t think things will play out that way. Sometimes keeping quiet and avoiding being open and honest is a necessity.

Lou

It could be the POJA item is too big of an issue to start with when there is little history of POJA successful or even basic usage of any POJA. Start with small issues, that way no one gets burned out or burnt if there are glitches along the way.

Some people have so many conditions added to a POJA, the other spouse will have a difficult time meeting those conditions.

That is right, "JOINT Agreement" Well that process "JOINT Agreement" is the big issue.

Like I said, some spouses have a long list of hoops that have to be jumped through, the OS thinks "how is this supposed to work" and is reluctant to try a POJA. After all if some of the �agreements/conditions are not met� then what happens, especially for the one that didn�t measure up to the agreement?

That is why I say start with the little things and that way no one is losing or gaining much.


In my case the hoops seem to be a sticking point. There are a lot of then for me to jump through and no guarantees.

Lou

Lou...I think you can only be responsible for what comes out of your own mouth, not hers. You have a responsibility not to come across as superior. You have a responsibility to be open to her opinion.

To be honest, coming from a female, I can tell you that most women don't want or need their worlds figured out. They just want to vent/talk. They don't want everything fixed. Does that make sense?

Have you ever tried mirroring and validating your wife?

So you would sort of paraphrase what she says to make sure your perception of what she said was how she intended it to sound. If it's a ridiculous statement, she gets to hear it from your perception, but you do need to do it respectfully.

So...if she says, "...the US is being lead down the path of ruin on purpose, to be handed over to another world government or religion" instead of saying "You're paranoid."

You would say "So...you believe this is all a well- calculated, intentional plan to overthrow us?" This shows her how you perceived it and gives her a chance to agree or clarify without insulting her.

It's not saying "that's ridiculous". It's saying "This is how what you said sounded to me; was this how you meant it to sound?"

She may be able to provide clarification that will make her opinion seem more rational to you.

My idea is to practice being respectful of her opinion so that down the line you can ask the same of her. It may take some time because it sounds like this is a typical pattern in your communication styles with each other.

I don't think it's a DJ to tell your wife what you think, but I believe that delivery of the opinion is pretty important. If you're knocking her down in the process, that's wrong. Like I said before, I would mirror and validate and listen carefully first. Give her the same respectful ear you'd like to be given.

If you feel your wife is adopting the opinion of what she's hearing on television, rather than formulating her own opinion from various objective resources, maybe she would enjoy a subscription to a newspaper or magazine that will provide her with differing viewpoints on politics.

At risk of sounding like I'm committing a DJ myself, I've known people like that - who maybe don't get out much and have limited time and resources to the outside world and hear something that makes sense and suddenly it's the gospel - and what is more...they must proclaim it. They become passionate about it because the explanations they heard were comprehensive and easy to remember and even impressive to repeat. What they can't fathom is that there may be other angles to take into consideration.

I've done it myself as a sahm. I have the first few pages of the local newspaper and whatever time I have for surfing the www to glean outside information. How else does one formulate an educated opinion - especially with limited time for researching? Not saying your wife is clueless; don't get me wrong. Just saying I can understand how it can happen.

Your wife may actually be suffering from poor self esteem. I base this on her adamant need to be heard and respected and agreed with.

A lot of time we will have a heated disagreement with our spouses that we would never have at work, or at church, or with our close friends - because we want to remain friends and remain employed.

In this example

... there is no direct disagreement, really. Neither generalization is true about all politicians, but both are true about some of them. Every politician has their own mix of motives. Yes, there are 100 openly socialist and communist members of the US House and Senate. They have a group, and websites. But there are 435 more who range from civic minded ideologically pure patriots, to craven panderers who will lie constantly and buy anyone's vote.

So find what you do agree on. Sell your viewpoint with real examples, not blanket generalizations.

I have said about those exact words but I did add in some things that I think would have to happen in order for a overthrow to happen. That is where my W might think I was DJ�ing her.


I am reading that, heard that in person from female friends, heard it several places on the internet and in podcasts. Most of the time I listen. My W sometimes asks if I am a wooden Indian w/o ears when she goes on and on.

I keep quiet most of the time but when she sounds paranoid, I throw in some comments and ask or say for XYZ to happen, ABC will also have to happen. I think me not saying anything is a doormat like behavior. If I just sit back and act like I am fine with my W�s extreme �right wing� fears, how am I not enabling her to continue to think she has something to worry about. In my opinion she worries about way more than seems reasonable. I have a list of things other people might have in their mind to be concerned about but she worries to the point of needing Xanax sometimes. She even admits a couple times a year, too much �right wing� news is bad for her and she will turn off the TV for half a day.

I agree. Maybe I hold in what I feel for too long and when I finally say something, the frustration comes out even though I am trying to be considerate. Here is a connection to the �giver� statement I posted earlier.

Me giving what I think is good or accepting something I don�t like causes problems first for me and eventually for her.


Amswers
a)I don�t take what you say as a DJ. If you want to experience a true/severe DJ you should have been in the Army back in the early 50�s and 60�s, where men were called pieces of s**it, scun, chickens, and pu**ies. It was called �training� back then. Maybe some forms of DJ�s were good even if I didn�t agree.
b)Yes, she stays home but retired early so has the time to go out but won�t unless I press the issue.
c)Like I said she is retired and tired a lot so she putters around the house, watches TV and naps.
d) Maybe 8 hours of right wing talk is the problem? A little humor-OK.
e) She likes to grab on to something be it the news she listens to and watches/naps, or something on one of the shopping channels. Those are her soapboxs.
f) agree but she thinks the co-dependency information she has helped her to be the person she wants to be.

So, what is next? What am I doing right or doing wrong? Mu opinion no one person has the most effective plan that fits everyone�s situation but I do see MB and some of the posters knowledge and experiences as they post them, as a very good resource.

Back to work (my PT job, I work from home) and the laundry for me. I cooked breakfast and lunch. I am going out with friends tonight. My W quit going out with the group about a year ago. I hope not too many MB folks see me going out as independent behavior. I see it as having some interests that help me retain my social skills and connections to how most people really live.

Lou

Retread, I am generally in agreement with what you post. The above is what I strive to convey in almost all of my political conversations. What counts (what she repeats to me) to my W is the 8+ hours of what she hears, mostly on TV. If I get a chance I listen to the other news stations, read a magazine article, several short newspaper stories, and even saw some Arab news station hi-lights before the govt. removed them from cable TV. I had to back off on all of that programming. I was getting anxious myself.

Back to DJ�ing. I think there is a balance between not DJ�ing someone and just listening but not saying anything. Too much listening and I feel like the other persons place where they dump their verbal garbage on me. I call it being their puke pad. With friends I can limit my exposure. At home I can limit some of my exposure by avoiding my W but that cuts into that 15 hours of undivided time/attention.

Lou

Lou, maybe you should read the "Friends of Good conversation" article that's posted on here somewhere. A conversation should have both people interacting, not just one person venting and one person listening.

I think that's what your wife is requesting when she complains about you sitting there like a wooden indian.

I really admire couples who have different political beliefs but still manange to discuss them amiably. Sort of like Carville and Madelin (maybe have the names wrong here).

If you can't discuss hot topics like politics and religion there surely must be other things to talk about. See those out. Does your wife have any outside hobbies or interests? If not, you can try to encourage her to have some. To just sit at home watching tv can lead people to become depressed regardless of their political affiliation.

Well...if we were to go by Dr. H's description of a DJ...as long as you were not lecturing, ridiculing, threatening or using other forceful means, then you were not DJing. Do you think she took it as ridicule?



To this I would say "Nope. I'm just smoking the peace pipe." j/k



Lou...in order for you to feel like a doormat, it would mean that when your wife talks to you about these things you must feel threatened or challenged. Is this how her speaking to you feels?



Sounds like there is a very fine line here between a DJ and not a DJ. Sounds like you're trying to straighten her out but you're doing it as respectfully as you know how. I'm not sure if that's okay or not. If she's being abusive or disrespectful it is not productive to stay there in the room with her at all, and I would tell her that you're leaving the room because you cannot listen to it in its 'present form' and then tell her that you two can resume discussing it later after she has calmed down. Rinse and repeat. That's one idea. If you're giving her an audience, you may be enabling and encouraging the behavior...



Here is a thought. Has she talked to anyone about anxiety and possible OCD or depression? Could she possibly benefit from an AD or talking to someone about her feelings? Have you ever approached this from a point of concern? "I'm worried about this. It's gotten out of hand."

My gut is telling me that your wife is dealing with something that she possibly can't control, and I think she may benefit from talking to her doctor about medication. She may have a chemical imbalance that could explain a lot of this, and there's medication available for that sort of thing. I'm not a doctor, but I do know a few people with this disorder.

As far as going out, if it interferes with one-one-one time (15 hours weekly) with your wife, if it's with unattached females, or if it's with people who don't support your marriage then no...I don't think it's a good idea.

Personally I would try to use respectful persuasion and concern to try to get her to a doctor, and I'd tell her that not going and taking care of this is going to affect how you feel about her, and you miss the old her. Remind her that you love her but don't love how she has changed.

Her attitudes and beliefs have affected her life to the point of reclusion and that's not good for either of you. It has encouraged withdrawal and IB on both sides. I can understand your exasperation and frustration; I'll give you that. But if you intend to handle this from a MB standpoint, continuing to ignore it is not the answer.

Just my humble .02, Lou. Have a good night.

OG_LOU,
I can see how your wife needs to do other things, so that she is not so preoccupied with the political and economic turmoil. But there IS a lot of political and economic turmoil, and too many people are at the other extreme - totally oblivious, their minds diverted by fantasy entertainment, and wanting to believe someone else is going to fix everything for them.

Just focusing on all the bank failures, unemployment, political intrigue, etc will make anyone feel helpless. For me, the solution is to get busy and do something. Not just politically, but in your personal life. Not everything you see on the news affects you directly, so put that in the corner. She needs to focus on those things which she feels directly threaten her happiness and security. The two of you are in this together, so this is an area you can discuss, and POJA some solutions that will bring her some peace of mind.

Having some empathy for her concerns will help you connect with her, too. Disrespectful Judgements are not just what you say, but what you think.

I'd like to talk more about Disrespectful Judgments today. The weekend is coming, and Monday we'll be incorporating chapters 5 and 6 into the discussion. I want to make sure it gets enough attention.

A few comments:

On page 67, Dr. H says "...even when a spouse is deceived into thinking that disrespect is motivated by care, the result is the same - it destroys the feeling of love."

I felt this was worth mentioning because I see it as a common scenario in many relationships. The 'teacher' in the relationship feels licensed because genuine or not, operating under the 'ruse' of care, he or she feels their intention will be duly noted and excuse them for their behavior. As you can see, Dr. H believes the result is the same - destroyed love.

My take on it is - people aren't stupid. You don't have to be a rocket scientist or hold a degree in Psychology to recognize disrespect.

Dr. H discusses something important: RESPECTFUL PERSUASION

He defines it as follows:

Blending your value systems, giving each one's wisdom an opportunity to override the other's foolishness.

Dr. H says "Each partner brings both wisdom and foolishness to the marriage."


Humility. I think that's what Dr. H wants to make sure we incorporate into our communication styles.

Another area I highlighted:

...sometimes in marriage the sole purpose of disrespect is entertainment.

I know of a marriage like this, do you?

Dr. H suggests 5 steps to follow to replace disrespectful judgments with respectful persuasion:

1) Express your conflicting opinions to each other with respect and understanding.

A true test is to ask yourself if you can explain your spouse's opinion just as well as you can explain your own...

Dr. H states: If I want to avoid losing love units, my spouse must believe that my opinion is in their best interest.

2) Explain why you feel your opinion is in your spouse's best interest.

Dr. suggests that we begin by showing respect for the opinion of our spouse, even if our goal is to change it. Respect is crucial in persuasion...

Respectful persuasion never involves an attack on your spouse's defenses.


3) Suggest a test of your opinion.

Ask your spouse to test your opinion for a brief period of time to see if they like it.

"...most examples of disrespectful judgments that I have encountered as a marriage counselor could have been reformulated to accommodate a test."

4) If the test fails to persuade, be prepared to drop the subject.

"The focus of attention should be on being respectful, not on persuasion."

If the test fails to persuade, be prepared to drop the subject.


...you do not have to change each other's minds about something to create behavior that makes each other happy...your focus of attention should be on each other's habits and not necessarily on each other's beliefs, opinions, and attitudes.

5) Give your spouse an opportunity to persuade you.

Being open to the possibility that our loved one may be right about anything is a critical step toward respectful persuasion.

-----------------------------------------------------------

I think what Dr. H is also saying is that we are disrespectful if our spouse thinks we are disrespectful. It's all in the perception and how we relate to one another.

He encourages us to ADOPT A POLICY OF ZERO TOLERANCE WHEN IT COMES TO DISRESPECTFUL JUDGMENTS

On page 79, there's a Disrespectful Judgments Questionnaire.

I've been on both ends of the spectrum; how about you?

Some conflicts are not going to be resolved.
Or they may take a long time to resolve.

You may think your spouse is totally wrong about something, but years later, realize that they were right.

If the issue is not something directly affecting your marriage, like some extreme belief about sexual relationship or raising children or work, then recognize that it falls into a lower priority of "things to fix". In something like politics or the economy, or religion, events constantly occur, and if our minds are open, we may realize that our spouse was right about something long before we came to realize it, and changed our own minds.

If we realize that being respectful and open minded is more important than reaching agreement, we will not damage our attitudes towards our spouse.

This pertains to the Love Bank concept and how one can get the concept wrong by over �Giving� in some areas and not feeding/taking care of their own souls.


What she said was I fail to see what is really happening. The socialists and Muslims are going to take over the country. I said I don�t agree with what is going on (Too much spending in govt and too much debt)but to believe what she said sounds like her fear rather than what would likely play out. I interpret what my W talks about based on her fears more than what is most likely actually going to happen. Much of the radical things she talks about I take with several grains of salt and keep quiet. I am not out to convince her why she is wrong or why my thinking is better. I consider her sources and realize why she talks as she does. Some of it is water off a ducks back. Some of it really sounds far fetched to me and rubs my patience thin.


That is where said I might be a door mat. Your description probally fits the situation better.


She used to work in the mental health field as a nurse LPN/AA degree and she thinks most talk therapy is useless. She is on 2 meds. Atavan if the anxiety gets out of hand for extreme anxiety and Zoloft to lessen the chance she will become anxious as a long term overall treatment. She gets both RX�s from her primary care Doctor. She won�t go to a psychiatrist for the RX or any talk therapy.


One activity is a camera club with another male peer. His W also stays home almost all of the time. The other activity is a community based dance and we dance in groups of 8.

It was my W�s idea to start but like other activites, once something goes from very easy to having to learn what is required so the group outcome is accomplished, my W starts to see the activity as too challenging and it begins to NOT be fun for her. I will admit it takes me time to learn some of the dance requirements ( over 100 different steps and moves) and I get somewhat frustrated with my screw-ups but everyone in the group is supportive of everyone in the group so we ALL reach a goal, which is having a coordinated dance session.

The dance lessons is 2 hrs long, once a week, 6:30 to 8:30. This is a winter/spring time activity. Ages range from 12 to unlimited if you can keep up so some people are well into their 70�s Parents bring their kids so some men wind up with 12 yr old partners for a while. I leave the house at 6:10 drive the 16 minuets to the recreation hall, I try to talk with the men mostly but never single out any women other than polite conversation. When the dance lessons are over, I help clean up (10 minuets) and I am home by 9PM. I don�t have any women�s phone number or know where they live. First names are on name tags without last names. I have a couple of the H�s phone numbers and know approximately where they live and I know where they work (guy talk). I also have men�s email addresses so we can share pictures and dance resources on line.

I would like continue the lessons and beyond but w/o my W there, it causes me to feel frustrated and doubt why I would continue. I invite my W to watch and talk with the other non-dancers but she would rather stay home. Some other men and women are in a similar position with a non-dancing spouse who wants to stay home. There are 2 different mother (40ish)-daughter (12 to 14) combination I go back and forth with and have partnered with for a lesson. One lesion I danced with the grandmother, mother, and daughter.

I never went to a dance when I was in school or college. It was something I wanted to do but was too shy and anxiety over ruled me back then. Prom night I was mowing lawns and drove past the school. Boy was that uncomfortable.
Thanks Soolee.

Lou

That is where I come from and try to offer this type of perspective to my W.

I have investments in 2 oil companies. When my W sees one oil company in trouble(BP) she wants me to dump all oil company investments. I tell her the oil companies are not the same and I will look at the risks and rewards each company posses and decide what to keep or what to sell.


That is my way to look at the news and events happening around the world. I can�t do anything about BP�s oil spill, global warming by coal fired power plants, but I can recycle paper, cardboard and plastic and limit the amount of electricity I consume, so I do the recycling and energy saving where I can.


I know that and want it to remain that way. Not drowning is sometimes a problem.

Lou

your wife being on 2 meds like that could be the reason she isn't interested in sex or anything else....just a thought.