Hi,

I'm writing here because I'm looking for some advice about how to rebuild trust in my relationship with my girlfriend.

I met my girlfriend in May of this year. We hit it off really well, and fell in love very quickly.

The past 4 months have honestly been the most incredible times of my life. Getting to know this woman has been like nothing else I've ever experienced. I knew from the moment I met her that we were going to have something very special together. And the more I got to know her, the more that feeling grew. As much a it's possible to fall in love with someone at first sight, I experienced it the day I met her.

We have a lot in common. I'm 39, she's 43. We both have kids from our past marriage (I also have another child from a past post-marital relationship). We are both in the same line of work. We both have the same personality type. We "click" really, really well. Being together is amazing, and effortless. She is also physically very beautiful, and (probably too much info.), but we have a phenomenal sex life. I feel lucky to have met her.

Ok that's the fairytale. Now for a dose of reality.

This past weekend, I was doing some work on one of her computers (upgrading it), while she was working on her deck. I had an opportunity to read her email/chat logs, and I did. I felt awkward doing this, but I made the decision to do it because a few of the things she had told me about one of her male "friends" did not add up, and I felt she was being very secretive about the nature of her relationship with him.

Unfortunately, my suspicions were confirmed. She had been having inappropriate sexual conversations with him over email and IM. I also discovered that they were sexual partners right before we met (literally days before we met). She had previously told me they were just friends. I felt completely nauseous reading all this, and I left her house without saying anything. Some time later, presumably when she realized I was gone, she called and denied everything to me and told me more lies. I then confronted her about exactly what I had read, and she began to open up about it - although still she continued to lie about other things. We traded a few emails that day, but ultimately broke up.

Tuesday night I was feeling very lonely and empty, and I asked her to come over to my place, and we completed Dr. Harley's Personal History Questionnaires together. We talked for 5 or 6 hours and went through every detail of each of our PHQ's. We didn't get all the way to the end, but we did most of it together.

She told me some things that I know were very hard for her to say, most notably that she'd had two affairs during her marriage. She seemed regretful for these affairs, but also explained them in a way that made them seem justified. She also laid a fair amount of blame on her ex-husband for neglecting her.

So here I am. I still feel lucky to know this woman. I do believe her when she says she has not had a physical affair during our 4-month relationship. The emails/IM's were difficult to read, but it happened, I'm already over it and I forgive her for it. What I'm mostly concerned about now is trust, and how to rebuild it. She travels several times a year with work and at this moment, I don't know if I could trust her on a work trip (one of her extramarital affairs happened on a work trip). I know I would be constantly worried and it would consume me in a very negative way. Before she met me, she also had a sexual relationship for a few months with a man at her work, and I'm now concerned about that possibly being rekindled. She has also kept in touch with other men from her past, some of whom live locally and still want sex with her.

I have asked her to break off contact with men that still ask her for sex, and she has agreed to do that with an explicit email to them. She hasn't done this yet. I personally think a man that is asking her for sex when he knows she is in a committed relationship is not someone who is good for our relationship.

A big part of me is glad this has all happened. In fact, I now wonder how we could even have had a great relationship without sharing this knowledge. We might never had taken the time to do the PHQ's and have taken this path to honesty and openness together. I feel ultimately that it will make us stronger and closer, but I am confused about how to get *there* from *here*. I am also worried that - despite her desire to be faithful and honest - something will snap one day, she won't be able to help herself and she'll have another emotional or phsyical affair. I don't think I could handle that.

This is all still very fresh, and I know I am probably having a lot of baseless and illogical fears... but they are there, and I need to deal with them somehow in order to move forward.

Thanks for any words of wisdom.

Sorry this post got so long.

-HappyHiker

First a couple of thoughts:
1 - You CAN fall in love with someone who just isn't right for you. Simply being compatible, and being in love is not enough. There has to be a willingness and an ability to do what it takes to maintain a marriage.

2 - Dating is a Job Interview. It is a testing ground to see if you are right for each other. If someone steals from you in a Job Interview, you'd be insane to hire them for the job.

Choosing to continue a relationship with someone involves MANY more factors than love and compatibility.

This woman, though amazing, has SEVERAL serious flaws that MUST be worked out on her end before you should even CONSIDER continuing this relationship, much less escalating it. That being said, it IS possible and the MB program provides a framework for doing just that.

SHE needs to do work on HERSELF. That work will create CHANGES in her BEHAVIOR that will serve to REASSURE you that she is WORTH maintaining a relationship with her. Your job - if you even want to keep her around - is to allow her the opportunity to do that. You don't trust her blindly. Blind trust is destructive to marriage, especially with someone who has cheated MULTIPLE times in the past.

She has done it before - unless she changes the conditions that allowed it to happen she will do it again, and you have only a little to do with that process.

So, specifically:


What is problematic about this is she feels entitled to a secret life. Now that is understandable to a certain extent when one is dating, you don't just lay it all out on the first date. However, male friends are a threat to a relationship. The fact that she feels entitled to SECRET, INTIMATE relationships with men who are not you is a troubling sign IF (and only if) you two have mutually consented to an exclusive relationship.

If you have - it is a red flag that she feels entitled to male friends. Male friends are a threat to your relationship.


She does not live her life in a Radically Honest way. She lies to protect herself and get what she wants: a relationship with you.


Now it would be heartening if she'd fessed up on her own, but the fact that she continued to lie and didn't confess until you confronted her illustrates her character.

She is a liar who will lie without compunction to get what she wants. She cares for HERSELF more than for you or this relationship. She puts herself first. THAT is troubling.


This is a good step. Radical Honesty will prevent infidelity.


This is a HUGE red flag. Something about her character makes it OKAY for her to be unfaithful when it suits her. She WILL cheat given the right set of circumstances unless she actively addresses this character flaw.


This is an even BIGGER red flag. It shows that she has little understanding of herself and her behavior. Affairs are NEVER justified.

Let me be clearer.

Affairs are NEVER justified. Not ever.

Her husband takes blame for a bad marriage, but he bears absolutely NO blame for her lack of moral character and decision to go spread her legs for another man.

That is 100% on her.

Until she accepts that she will not be a woman worth having a relationship with, because if you don't treat her JUST right (and there is NO way to know what JUST right is) she will cheat on YOU.

She needs to STOP blaming her husband for her choices. She is an adult woman who is completely responsible for her actions. She needs to contemplate and understand what the mental justifications, rationalizations and excuses were that she gave herself that made it ok to violate the person she vowed to love and treasure above all others.

This isn't something done in an afternoon.

This takes painful introspection and admission of failure.

Once she confronts that she can ACTIVELY work to protect herself from ever falling into that same trap again.

That will probably include a commitment to not have opposite sex friends when in a relationship. Period. As she has proven to have remarkably bad boundaries.


Read the SAA forum. An emotional affair is JUST as damaging to a marriage as a physical one. The fact that she has already cheated on you emotionally is very telling.

Unless she does some major work, she is dangerous to you and to your children.


Then you are a fool and an irresponsible parent. This woman has demonstrated some VERY disturbing behavior that puts the stability and happiness of your family at risk.

I promise you - if you sweep this under the rug, if you eventually marry this woman, you are setting yourself up to be cheated on.


YOU don't rebuild trust, because you have done nothing to damage it. SHE rebuilds trust. If you want this relationship you set forth a strong boundary that you will not be with a woman that isn't trustworthy. You raise a high bar for her to meet. It is HER job to demonstrate that she is trustworthy. You just provide her the opportunity, the burden of proof lies on her.


THIS will have to change. Any nights away are an opportunity for adultery. As this woman has already demonstrated the capacity for such behavior, this is a double whammy against her. Not only is she able, she will have the means.

If she is serious about a relationship, she will take active measures to ensure it's success. For her, that will involve taking a job that doesn't involve travel.


As long as she works with him, it is a possibility. If this relationship escalates and you eventually marry - is she willing to eliminate ALL past lovers COMPLETELY from her life? They will pose a threat to your marriage.


Also a bad sign for a potential mate. It's one thing if your dating but is she willing to eliminate these relationships if you marry?


Don't trust her words. She'll say whatever it takes to get what she wants at the expense of you and this relationship. Look at her ACTIONS. If she were serious and had your best interest at heart she would have done this right away. The fact that she doesn't is telling.


Yes - but SHE doesn't see that, and that is why she is dangerous.


As she is right now - yes she wont be able to help herself and will have an affair. That is because she has abdicated control over her life and decisions to other people and the whim of her emotions.

Sorry to say but until she grows up and takes responsibility for her actions, she WILL have another affair.

A big girl can 'help herself' and not have an affair.


Oh no, these fears aren't baseless. In fact they are sane, rational and VERY valid. Listen to your fears because they are TELLING you something. They are telling you that this woman is DANGEROUS and NOT good for you.

She could be - if she decided to do the hard work it takes to stop being a wayward adulteress (just because she isn't actively committing adultery doesn't change that that is what she is, mentally).

As for dealing with them. You don't. YOU LET HER PROVE she is worth a relationship with...

If it were me and the happiness of my children were at stake - I would move on, but it is up to you what you do.

HH,

This is all still very fresh, and I know I am probably having a lot of baseless and illogical fears... but they are there, and I need to deal with them somehow in order to move forward.

Only since May in this relationship and she is already cheating on you!!! She is a serial cheater who seems to need multiple men in her life to be happy. Run while you can, I very much doubt she has ever stopped been physical with this guy.

Is this guy married btw, if so that's an even bigger reason to run.

God Bless
Gamma

You can't continue a relationship with this person until she, on her own, accepts that she is 100% responsible for her actions. I would go dark. I would break it off with her and not speak to her again. I'm sorry some people just can't take responsibility for their actions. Get out while you can.
I'm so sorry.
Read the "surviving and affair" forum. Take a look at the hell you are in for if you stay in this relationship.

She has a "liar" problem
She has a "spread her legs" problem
She has a "contact other men and sex talk them" problem
She has a "pretend to you she is not slutty" problem
She has a "blame the other husbands for her having to cheat" problem

Lucky you that you have seen her true character in a few short months before you got your heart involved and heartache in your life. You are not hooked to her yet and if you are smart you will dump her cold.

There are so many thousands of better women out there why go for this one? She has such a bad character.

So she's got a history of cheating at least 3 times -- at least twice before you, and at least once with you (that you know about) --an emotional afffair is still cheating, you do realize?

Uh, that's not a long track record.

Yep. You're right to be thinking ahead. is that a risk you want to run?

Have both of you gotten tested?

Maybe she isn't sending off strong signals that she's off-limits. Maybe she likes being able to have her cake & eat some on the side, too. 'Cuz ya know, what's stopping her from telling these other guys off? Ya think that maybe she doesn't want them to leave her alone? It's a pretty big ego-shot for some people, when someone is throwing themselves at you... maybe she's infatuated with this sort of attention. But unless she's willing to confront the fact that she's infatuated from attention & her boundaries are weak-to-nonexistent, then there's very little that can stop her from continuing to behave this way.

You should be glad, but not for the reason you are. Dude, honesty isn't something you do just once with a worksheet. Honesty is a way of life that you live out on a sustained basis; or else it isn't. So far, sex outside of marriages doesn't seem to have been out-of-bounds for either of you. Sex outside her current relationship doesn't seem to be outside her idea of acceptable behavior either. And she's 43. You feel like she's ready to change? Or are you cool with bringing up your kids around someone who hasn't demonstrated much ability to keep hopping from one bed to another, just because she's great in bed for you? She may be physically beautiful, but she behaves like an alley-cat. Is getting boinked so important to you that you're willing to overlook this ugly behavior & let it slide? You should be glad because you have a chance to get out of this relationship before it'll cost you a bunch of money & before she picks up some disease from one of her other guys that'll make your ****** rot off.

Your fears don't sound baseless or illogical. You see what she does. You're uncomfortable because it doesn't jibe with who you want her to be. So hold on a minute: You guys aren't even married... so what exactly has she committed to? She's just keeping her options open... keeping her other burners warm... she doesn't really sound like she's into commitment.

Vibrissa,

Thank you for your detailed and carefully considered reply. I agree with much of what you say, and you have actually reinforced some of my own thoughts and fears about this situation.

Believe me, I do not intend to "sweep this under the rug". I know that had I not exposed this, it would have continued indefinitely, and ultimately led to one or more physical affairs. It would have been a disaster for everyone involved.

Your comment about her feeling "entitled to secret and intimate relationships with men" really hit home. You are right.. she felt entitled, and she felt nothing wrong with it at the time. Only when it was exposed did she claim she felt bad about it. That's probably the most disturbing thing about all this, because it exposes a pretty dark and insidious character flaw that I don't feel very comfortable with - a lack of integrity.

I have let her know that it's up to her to show me that she is making changes. I can see she is doing a lot, and that she is really remorseful for what she did. I am looking on a daily basis for evidence that she is meeting my basic expectations for honesty in a relationship.

Something I need in order to proceed is a deep understanding of why she did this - why did she feel a need to do it when we were in a fantastically, happy relationship? She says she doesn't really know. So that's something I'm hoping counseling can help her to understand on a deeper level, and maybe some day I will understand it too.

Thanks again,

-HappyHiker

GloveOil,

Thank you for your response. I've tried to put my answers/thoughts below.


Yes, I realize an emotional affair is still cheating, and I feel cheated-on. I was physically sick (I threw up) when I read her emails and IM's. The moment I made that realization was the most horrible experience I have ever had. I can't even begin to imagine how people survive/forgive physical affairs.


No, it's not. I could not live with someone that I did not trust. But I also believe that people can change for the better if they really want it. Perhaps I am being naive


I have asked her to get tested, and she says she will. She has not done it yet.


I think you make a very good point here, and you may have hit the nail right on the head. No, she has not done a good job of letting these people know that she's off-limits. And I think it's very likely that she got a big ego-boost from maintaining contact with them. I also see clearly now that her boundaries with men are utterly inappropriate and unacceptable to me. I'm hoping she can directly address all of these issues.


Yes, I do hope she is ready to change. And no, I would not be cool with bringing up my kids around her if I thought she wouldn't. The fact that we have great sex is not the primary reason for staying with her... at all. She means far, far more to me than just sex. No, I am not willing to overlook this ugly behavior. That's why I posted here - to get some input from people that may have been in a similar situation.


Thanks again for your time,

-HappyHiker

Gamma, WannaTry and Bubbles,

Thank you for your responses.

I think the easiest thing for me to do here would be to run a mile and not look back. However, I know also that often the short and straight trail rarely reveals the most beautiful vistas.

I am going to stick with this, keep my eyes wide open and ask her to prove to me that she deserves to be in a relationship with me. The bar is high, and it'll remain up there until I feel comfortable that I can trust her again.

I absolutely hate this. I HATE that I'm in this position and having to do this. I am taking a chance on her that she will come through. If she does, it will have been well worth the chance taken.

If not, well... it's her loss.

-HappyHiker

Hiker - you need to look at her ACTIONS, not her words. She needs to be willing to live an open and honest life with you. She needs to give up her opposite sex friendship as she cannot maintain proper boundaries in them.

Honestly, she needs A LOT of work on herself and I worry that a relationship will prove a hindrance to that work. The motivation for this work needs to come from an internal realization that she is not a safe person to be in a relationship with. That will motivate her to BECOME that person. If YOU try to push that realization onto her, she will be changing for you and that is a road that leads right to resentment.

You need to establish healthy boundaries of behavior you will accept in a relationship, and I would urge you not to make your relationships sexual so early on - they really cloud things. You would not be nearly attached to so unhealthy a person if you'd kept your pants zipped.

Your bar needs to be high - permanently. There is no dropping the bar once she has demonstrated trustworthiness. She doesn't have to 'be good' for a few months - she needs to be a completely different person.

I promise you - all the 'compatibility' you think you have will fly out the window. It is meaningless in light of one glaring incompatibility:

You expect fidelity in your intimate relationships. She believes there are extenuating circumstances that make infidelity ok.

The outward, behavioral changes, are not enough. She needs to explore why it is she thinks it's ok to cheat for any reason. She needs to explore why it is she refuses to take blame for her infidelity. She needs to explore why it is she seeks approval through inappropriate sexual experiences with men she is not in an intimate relationship with.

She needs to be willing to commit to a MB lifestyle. It makes it virtually impossible to maintain a secret second life.

You mention actions she is taking. What are these actions? Speaking contritely and putting on a sad face isn't enough. You say she still hasn't discontinued the inappropriate relationships with her male friends. That is very telling.

Do you think she'd be willing to come post here? There are many women, like her, who have had affairs and have changed their lives around and become healthy, happy people. They can give her a lot of advice on negotiating her own personal recovery.

Vibrissa,

I am trying to look at her actions, and I will use those (not her words) as a barometer of how things are progressing. This may sound cold, but I feel nothing at all when I hear her cry right now. And when I hear her attempt to excuse her actions (by saying, for example, that she was not the one who initiated the intimate conversations with this man), I really get the creeps and it makes me wonder if we are really on the same page. If I hear her say "I know this is not an excuse, but..." one more time, I doubt I will be able to take her seriously any longer.

I have clearly established with her boundaries and expectations moving forward. I had not done that before because I had just taken these things for granted. I did not expect such basic expectations of honesty and fidelity to go unmet in an intimate relationship.


Actions she has taken:

• Unfriended 4 ex's from her facebook page.
• Sent 2 no-contact emails to ex-lovers who live locally that both had recently expressed an interest in sex with her - despite knowing that she was in a relationship.
• Changed her phone numbers.
• Given me access to her phone records.
• Filed for a restraining order against another man from her past that she was still in daily contact with. I didn't mention this man in my initial post because, it is somewhat tangential to the main issue and the details of her continued relationship with him are very complex - although it demonstrates another case where she had lied to me on an almost daily basis, so it is relevant, I believe.

She is also in the process of changing her email address, setting up some counseling for herself and making an appointment to get tested for STD's.

Now, many of these actions I have explicitly requested, and -frankly - I haven't seen much else in the way of her being pro-active about showing me she is really interested in changing.

Since reading the responses on this forum, I've stopped asking her to do anything at all. I have simply let her know what my boundaries are, what my expectations are in an intimate relationship, and that it's her job to prove to me I should give her a second chance.


She has begun the process of ending her relationships with ex-lovers. I don't know how far along she has gotten, or how far she intends to go down that path. She has committed to following the MB principles, so I am hopeful that she will read about "Extraordinary Precautions" for preventing another affair, and follow the advice from Dr. Harley.


I don't know if she would be willing to post here. In the interests of Radical Honesty, I asked for her opinion/approval before I posted here, so she knows about it, and she has read at least some of the responses.

Thanks again for your time. This forum is an incredible resource.

-HappyHiker

There is something called the fog. It is a wayward mindset. A person can be wayward and not actively in an affair. This type of person doesn't like to take responsibility for their actions. There are always reasons, excuses or mitigating circumstances. Any apology with a 'but' is not an apology, it is an attempt to show contrition while accepting no blame for inappropriate behavior.

This woman is wayward to her core. She is going to have to change her whole way of looking at the world.


See this is what I meant when I said the actions should come from an internal motivation. She is doing this to please you. She is doing this out of a fear of losing a good relationship. When things get a bit rocky - she will look at all this with resentment. She will say "Look at what all I've given up for HIM. Look at all the changes I've made for HIM."

These changes aren't for you - they are for her. They are so she is capable of making healthy relationships. If you force it on her, she won't see that, she'll see that YOU made her change.



Honestly it sounds like she is doing the right things, but probably for the wrong reasons.

Good strong boundaries on your part are essential. You need to protect yourself until she demonstrates the ability to do so as well.

Honestly, it may be in your best interest for you two to separate a bit. Let her know that you are not interested in a relationship with a woman who feels entitled to get her needs met elsewhere. Let her know you care and are interested in pursuing a relationship with her when she is in a healthier place. Then, disengage for a bit. Give her the room she will need to make these changes FOR HERSELF.

You nailed another huge fear of mine, and one that makes me wonder if this situation is at all fixable. However, I am taking solace from the fact that people do survive affairs, and relationships are often stronger as a result of them. So I'm holding out hope. If it doesn't work out that way for me, I will have learned something about myself in the process. So either way, it won't all be for naught.



Sadly, it's not the first time I've heard this advice. I've considered it, and I am still on the fence about it. Somewhat conflicting with this advice is Dr. Harley's own advice on the subject. He states that after an affair breaks, the couple should spend as much time together as possible as long as there are no love-busters going on that would further drain the love-banks.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about this apparent paradox.

Thanks again,

-HappyHiker

Hiker, You have gotten excellent advice and insight on here. I would just like to add to what Vib is saying.

I was in a situation where I wanted my SO to create boundaries with a few women. I pushed him into it and kept reminding him and reminding him to do it.

There are several issues with this approach. First, when I told him what I wanted I didn't cover the gambit, I thought he would "get it." So, I asked him to stop talking on the phone to his ex and he took that as talking by email to be okay. After me pushing him into stop talking to her by email, he started emailing with her friends who would update him on her life and vice versa. In other words, since it wasn't coming from him, he didn't implement no contact in an honest and real way. He also didn't generalize it to other situations that made me uncomfortable, and so I became pushy again.

There was another woman I wanted him to have no contact with from his home town after she professed her love for him. I pushed him into it and so whenever he would go home without me, I would fear that he was going to see her because he didn't seem to understand why no contact was important. It made me really paranoid. This situation was as bad for him as it was for me because even if he did finally get why no contact was necessary, he couldn't really demonstrate that to me because I had already bullied him into doing the things that could show me that.

Set your boundaries by stating the kind of relationship you want to have and then let her show you if she is capable of it.

Also, please do realize there are already numerous red flags in your relationship. To have so many so early on is alarming. Is it possible that the reason she seems so special is because she is spontaneous, unpredictable, and mysterious? Those qualities might be fun for dating but they are not what solid relationships are built upon. Honesty and respect are so much more important.

You seem articulate and like you are willing to do the right things in relationships to make the work. There are a lot of great women that would be interested in meeting a man like that, she is not the last fish in the sea.

Dating is different than marriage. Dating is a temporary arrangement that COULD lead to marriage. The problem of staying to close through this process is that you become entrenched in it, and if it doesn't turn around you are stuck deeply in love with someone that ISN'T good for you. Providing space protects YOU from becoming too involved with someone who may NOT result in a good mate. It also allows HER the room to decide if these changes are really in her best interest.

Marriage is a PERMANENT, life-long state. Your lives are inexorably intertwined. EVERYTHING you do, in marriage, affects yours spouse and the marriage as a whole. Separation widens the rift between the two and makes coming together afterwards very difficult.

In marriage, the commitment to stay together has already been made, and so anything that damages the relationship further (here distance) should be avoided. Whereas, in dating, that commitment has NOT been made and is CONTINGENT on the partners being capable of sustaining and living up to that commitment.

You have made no deeper commitment than to agree to 'try out' your girlfriend and see if she is a good fit for you. As she is right now - she isn't a good fit. Maintaining this relationship can suck you into an unhealthy dynamic from which it will be ever more painful to leave - in fact, staying will prompt you to escalate the relationship - with someone you KNOW isn't a good fit.

Were you married your commitment would be much different. That commitment is to love and cherish for life in good times and in bad. Adultery is one of the bad times that a couple CAN overcome, but it is the commitment that provides the foundation for their recovery.

This is not to say that a relationship in the future with this woman is out of the question. She doesn't fit now, but she may fit later. If she is truly as amazing as you say, she will change to become a better person - not just for you, but because she realizes that Marriage and Relationships aren't about finding the right person, but BEING the right person.

I hope that makes sense.

Hiker, most of these people had years of history, a committed marriage, and children. If you look in the surviving an affair forum, the advice for newly married people without children is often to cut your losses. It would be one thing if she had shown you for 10 years that she was capable of being a wonderful wife, but she has not yet demonstrated in your relationship that she is capable of being honest and faithful, not even for one month.

Please be careful, it can be easy to get caught up in hoping someone will change.

Please, listen to NoMatter as her voice is one of personal experience. She is, at this very time, living the future that awaits you. She has been here for months struggling to end a relationship with someone like your girlfriend: poor boundaries, entitled to their secret life, a 'bad fit'. She has struggled because she is so entrenched and loves him so much that she cannot let go of someone who is toxic to her.

I'd encourage you to read her story.

Linky

NoMatter,

Thanks for your post. We obviously share some common ground here. You said everything but how you ultimately solved the problem with your SO. Could you share the details in how you ultimately arrived at resolution?


Yes, I know there are red flags, and it is more than a little alarming for me to make this realization.

I found some painful irony in you suggesting that the reason I might be attracted to her is that she is "spontaneous, unpredictable, and mysterious". I don't think she's really any of those things, although she certainly can be spontaneous. Further, those attributes are big turn-OFFs for me and I have never sought women with those "qualities". One of her big attractions for me is that she is predictable, reliable and logical. Although, clearly I need to re-assess my judgment now.

She is not quite the person I thought she was, but I still think she is a good woman. I'd like to think of this series of events as a speed-bump rather than a road-block.

-HappyHiker

Thanks Vibrissa,

That explains the conflicting advice perfectly.

I guess in my mind (and also in my words to her), I had already made a commitment to her. I had already decided that she is the person I wanted to be with forever. So the distinction is a little blurred for me here.

I am sure this might attract some flames, particularly on a "marriage builders" website, but for me - the institution of marriage itself doesn't really mean anything. Let me clarify that - what is important to me is the personal commitment, not the marriage certificate. And I had already made that commitment to her.

Clearly, she felt differently, and I do feel quite foolish for assuming the commitment was mutual.

-HappyHiker

Yes, I thought he was the most amazing, charming person ever for the first 8 months. I had never met anyone like him. I had small windows into what our relationship would become but I didn't choose to pay attention to them. I still see the amazing guy sometimes and this kind of intermittent happiness makes it really hard for me to split from him, but these days the majority of the time is unhappy. As soon as I get up the courage to end our relationship, he says all of the right things at the exact right moment, and then goes back to his old ways, sometimes only hours later.

I can tell from reading your post that this woman has serious independent behavior issues and also that you are someone that would find independent behavior to be a huge lovebuster, similar to my situation. She is showing you a lot of evidence of IB right now, believe it. Know that when you live with someone, IB only gets worse and becomes more painful.