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We seem to have much confusion on the board about what Plan B means. Plan B means a complete and total separation with no contact. That means no talking, no visiting, no phone calls, no emails, no texts, no listening to voicemails, no smoke signals, no mental telepathy, no nothing. It is to be launched with a letter that stipulates your conditions. If a WS comes to the house, you don't let him/her in. If [s]he sends a letter, you don't read the letter, you give it to your IM. Every time [s]he attempts to get through, you should block the attempt and have your IM contact the WS immediately and remind the WS that all contact is to come through the IM. Every time you allow your WS to get through, it gives them a little fix of YOU. Enough to go out and carry on the affair for a little while longer. As long as [s]he is assured that[s]he is in control and can get through at will, [s]he will feel at ease in carrying on the affair. The WS usually does miss the BS so allowing contact eases that PAIN. When you EASE that pain, it helps the affair. In other words, when you let the WS through, you are propping up the affair! The OP thanks you muchly for your support!!  BUT...if you want to have the best chance, you should never let the WS through. And lastly, if you don't understand Plan B and/or are not really serious about staying dark, you should not bother. This is an all or nothing program. All you are doing when you say you are in Plan B and then let the WS call you 2 hours later is wrecking your credibility. You are advertising that you are not serious and will allow the WS to call the shots. IT IS UP TO YOU TO ENSURE NO CONTACT, NOT THE WS!! Any questions, give me a shout!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Hey MelodyLane,
At what point and how do you go about talking about rebuilding the marriage, what is the starting point, if you aren't in contact, just curious how does it happen?
Does the letter/conversation from the wayward go through the IM?
I understand the Plan B and the reason for the non contact, just don't understand where and when the break takes place in order to reconcile if that is the wish.
I think this is the step that confuses some of us posters here. Maybe we think when they come to talk that this is the starting point..........
I didn't use the Plan B letter myself although I was composing one to use...........
Thanks
BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
Working on Recovery
Grateful for finding Marriage Builders
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Great post Mel, as usual.
Also, change those email addresses and phone numbers. You WILL get a little fix yourself when you know that your WS is TRYING to contact you, but what is going to happen to you when they stop? It's NOT worth it. That temporary "high" you will get has a HORRIBLE crash on the other side.
And when you have been in Plan B for a while, you may think that it is OKAY to have SOME contact. NOPE. Even indirect contact(checking a FB page, looking at pictures, hearing stories about WS) will HARM you. You have been abused enough. Don't harm yourself more than necessary.
Remember all of the pain and agony you were going through before DDay? Right after DDAY? During Plan A? Why would you want to go back to that? Stay DARK. Don't undo all of that hard work you did to get you to this place.
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING  Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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Hey MelodyLane,
At what point and how do you go about talking about rebuilding the marriage, what is the starting point, if you aren't in contact, just curious how does it happen?
Does the letter/conversation from the wayward go through the IM?
I understand the Plan B and the reason for the non contact, just don't understand where and when the break takes place in order to reconcile if that is the wish.
I think this is the step that confuses some of us posters here. Maybe we think when they come to talk that this is the starting point..........
I didn't use the Plan B letter myself although I was composing one to use...........
Thanks Yes agree with that one JT. Perhaps a lie detector test set up in Mels kitchen would be a good idea????????
BW/FWW 34 (Harmony)
BH/WH 36
Feb 2009 - Affair starts, physical for 9 days on business trip.
Mar 2009 - Separate from H, live alone
Apr 2009 - realise I have made big mistake and attempt reconciliation with H, establish NC with OM.
Jun 2009 - H physical and emotional serial A start right upto present day.
Jul 2009 - NC with OM broken and becomes EA
Mar 2010 - H reads email and discovers A
Jul 2010 - Discover MB
Aug 2010 - Plan A starts
Oct 2010 - Plan B starts
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Wonderful, clear, succinct summation, M/L!
Can you accept a minor suggestion? Edit the prose to more consistently render it "gender-neutral". You let slip the accidental orientation of the BS being the husband ("OW thanks you muchly for your support!!"), and increasingly, on this board, it is BH's who are asking for guidance.
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At what point and how do you go about talking about rebuilding the marriage, what is the starting point, if you aren't in contact, just curious how does it happen?
Does the letter/conversation from the wayward go through the IM?
I understand the Plan B and the reason for the non contact, just don't understand where and when the break takes place in order to reconcile if that is the wish. Your Plan B letter already tells the wayward that all communication goes through the IM. The message that the WS wants to reconcile ALSO goes through the IM. THe IM, though, is trained to filter out spam and only let the BS know urgent things. He or she does not pass on every whining pleas from the WS, but ONLY the message that says " the affair has ended. I have moved out of her flat and I'm living with my mother/I have started another job/I am willing for us to put the house on the market and move/I will meet all your recovery conditions/I have contacted Steve Harley and begun MB coaching. The IM will decide to tell you when he/she feels that this message is different from all the previous blusters, denials and fury. You can talk directly to the WS after that. You do not let him or her move home until you see proof that all the reconciliation requirements are being met. These conditions should set the bar high.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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At what point and how do you go about talking about rebuilding the marriage, what is the starting point, if you aren't in contact, just curious how does it happen?
Does the letter/conversation from the wayward go through the IM? Good question!! The WS can indicate to the IM that he has ended his affair is ready to commit to the marriage. The IM determines his sincerity and if she thinks he is serious, then the BS can meet with the WS to discuss a PLAN for reconciliation. And this is the most critical part. If there is no plan, that is a PLAN FOR FAILURE. There must be a plan. And this is strictly my own observation, but if a WS refuses to send a no contact letter to the OP, HE IS NOT SINCERE. I have seen many a false recovery launched when a WS would not send that letter. Sending that letter is a reflection of the WS's sincerity about recovery. I have been an IM in many cases, and in almost every case, the WS will first attempt to resume contact with the BS by saying things like "I want to talk to see how I feel..." <------this is not a sincere approach. It is only an attempt to maintain the status quo [of having 2 ppl meeting his needs] and to reestablish his control over the BS. The WS does not like losing control so he will first try an approach that does not involve HIM making any changes. He will test the waters to see if he can get YOU to make the adjustments.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Very important point.
FBW in recovery
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Remember all of the pain and agony you were going through before DDay? Right after DDAY? During Plan A? Why would you want to go back to that? Stay DARK. Don't undo all of that hard work you did to get you to this place. I am an IM for several people and I can always tell by the BS's demeanor if she/he has had any contact with the WS, whether it be from listening to voicemails or having a meeting with the WS. The BS will go from chipper, happy and self confident to down, depressed and sad. It is a REMARKABLE CHANGE.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Very important point.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I learned the hard way that by maintaining contact, I only hurt myself and made it easier for XWH to continue affair. I came off sounding crazy (with grief, but crazy, nonetheless)and I am sure I met many of his needs during this time.
Currently we communicate only via text and email re: kids. That was my limit that I set and I keep and I can manage. I am not in a plan b.
I would encourage anyone who is about to go into plan b, be ready to go completely dark.
It is not a plan to 'get your WS back' - which is what I iniatially thought. It is a plan to help you recover from the trauma of unrepentent betrayal.
My current reminder is, the stronger I get, the darker I go. The darker I go, the stronger I get.
Plan B is for the BS and the BS only...
Me:BS40
WXH:42
DD15; DS13; DD6
D-day:6/30/08 & 10/25/08
WH moved out 9/15/08
D: 1/15/10
"So take that look out of here, it doesn't fit you, because it's happened, doesn't mean you've been discarded." -- Big Country from "In a Big Country."
"Keep calm and carry on." -- Winston Churchill
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It is not a plan to 'get your WS back' - which is what I iniatially thought. It is a plan to help you recover from the trauma of unrepentent betrayal.
My current reminder is, the stronger I get, the darker I go. The darker I go, the stronger I get. This is a great point! As a BS prepairing for a Dark Plan B it is important to remind myself that Plan B is to help me recover, not to win back my WS. I can speak from experience that even though I "know" what WW is doing when I see signs of it like a text to OM then it does cause me physical and mental anguish. Having WS in my life at all will continue my anguish until WS is willing to end ALL contact with OM "."
Me (32) BS Her (33) WW S(8) | D(6) | D(5) My StoryMarried 9 Years March 2010: D-Day #1 May - July 2010: Retrouville & counseling July 2010: WW stopped couseling because we were "better" November 2010: D-Day #2 (lesson learned "don't stop until the professional tells you are better")
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Remember all of the pain and agony you were going through before DDay? Right after DDAY? During Plan A? Why would you want to go back to that? Stay DARK. Don't undo all of that hard work you did to get you to this place. I am an IM for several people and I can always tell by the BS's demeanor if she/he has had any contact with the WS, whether it be from listening to voicemails or having a meeting with the WS. The BS will go from chipper and happy and self confident to down, depressed and sad. It is a REMARKABLE CHANGE. I can attest to this with even indirect contact. By that I mean, hearing about WS from someone else. It can throw you into a tailspin and make you think about WS even more. It is harmful to your personal recovery, which is CRUCIAL if you want to become a success at recovery(either with your marriage or without it).
BW(Me)aka Scotty:37 DSx2: 10,12 DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09 Plan B Dec18/09 Personal R in works Scotty's THING Newly Betrayed click herePraying for walls and doors. Thanx MM “Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.” ? Maya Angelou PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION THANK YOU
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[ As a BS prepairing for a Dark Plan B it is important to remind myself that Plan B is to help me recover, not to win back my WS. This is an important point. "Plan B is not designed to send a message to your husband, or to let him think about how much he'll miss you after a divorce. It is designed to protect you from the emotional fallout of your husband's affair. It's a risky move, because it often leads to divorce. But the alternatives are even worse. If you don't go to plan B, when it's all over, you'd be an emotional basketcase.
You don't have to do a thing in Plan B. You certainly don't have to divorce your husband. But be sure to consult with a divorce attorney to understand your rights and risks. You should try to live your life as if your husband doesn't exist." "When a WS refuses to leave the lover, there are no good options for the BS. At first, plan A is recommended because there is a slim hope (15%) that, with encouragement, a WS will make the decision to leave the lover. But 85% don't do that, even when plan A is implemented perfectly.
That leaves two other choices which are both bad. The first is to continue plan A indefinitely, trying to encourage the WS to leave the lover, and the second is to initiate plan B, which is to completely separate from the WS. The problem with a continuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them. Instead of making the BS attractive to the WS, plan A actually makes these poor women so unattractive that it completely eliminates all hope of reconciliation. And 95% of all affairs eventually "die a natural death." If you do absolutely nothing, they usually end.
So I've recommended plan B rather early in the effort to separate the WS from his lover. In your case, you've noticed that you have experienced a detached feeling about it all, even your husband's filing for divorce. That's the way it's supposed to turn out. You are far more attractive while in emotional control of yourself than you would ever be begging and pleading for his return. You tried that tactic already, and it hasn't worked.
Plan B doesn't always work, but it does protect you from the intense emotional pain that you could be experiencing day in and day out. Your husband may divorce you, but it won't be because you have implemented plan B. And if he returns to you, it won't be because you have implemented plan B. But if he does return, with a sincere willingness to completely leave his lover and follow our plan for recovery, he'll find a wife who is still sane if you follow plan B.
If your husband goes through with his plan to divorce you, he will be making the biggest mistake of his life. But you will be far less impacted by the emotional fallout if you are in plan B at the time. Don't assume that his actions are your fault. You have done everything you can to get him back. All you can do now is to protect yourself from your husband's second biggest mistake of his life -- his affair."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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In the Infidelity chapter in His Needs, Her Needs, Dr Harley points out an auxiliary effect of Plan B. While it is not intended to bring back a WS, it often has that very effect.
And here is how.
The OP is usually meeting 1-2 top needs of the WS. The BS is meeting 3-4. Affairs are based on selfishness and thoughtlessness so it is the rare OP who will sign on to meet those other needs when the BS is removed from the scene. What typically happens is when a BS goes into Plan B, the OP is expected to meet all the WS's needs. The expectation RISES dramatically. This is where the conflict begins.
In addition, the WS has an attitude that since he has "sacrificed" his own family for the OP that the OP OWES him A WHOLE LOT. People who sacrifice always keep score, and when the score is not even they resort to selfish demands, angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments. The lovebusting fest begins!!
Additionally, with the BS out of the picture, they no longer have the BS around to demonize. And often, the BS serves as a lightening rod for all the dissension in the affair. With the BS gone, the dissension is refocused on EACH OTHER. And since you have 2 selfish, thoughtless TAKERS the lovebusting can be huge! And once the lovebusting starts, things start spiralling quickly. This is why 95% of affairs crumble within 2 years.
It is in this way that Plan B can have the effect of restoring the marriage. No guarantees, but it can work!!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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One other observation: When a BS is urged to go to Plan B, they often ask: "But isn't that just giving WS and OP what they want? Isn't that just taking me out of their way so they are free to be happy together? WS barely speaks to me anyway."
It's one thing when the WS ignores the BS while still thinking they can waltz in and out of the marrige anytime they feel like it. WS like knowing that the BS is still sitting there waiting for crumbs, because that leaves the WS feeling in control.
It's a completely different thing when the WS suddenly has that option cut off cold, and can no longer see or speak to the BS at all. Now the BS has taken back the control and WS Do Not Like This.
It's good that they don't like it for two reasons:
First, there are finally some concrete consequences to their lying and cheating and selfishness.
Second, the OP will have to deal with 100% of their complaining and anger about being cut off from the BS.
Heh.
Me, BW
WH cheated in corporate workplace for many years. He moved out and filed in summer 2008.
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Additionally, with the BS out of the picture, they no longer have the BS around to demonize. And often, the BS serves as a lightening rod for all the dissension in the affair. With the BS gone, the dissension is refocused on EACH OTHER. Yes, yes, this is what happened to my friend whose H was involved in an A. She maintained some minimal email contact with him after he moved out to be with OW and during D proceedings, and after the D, she told me she felt she actually fueled the A and OW's desire to meet ENs in the way you describe above. Also during all of the time that she maintained some contact, she was very fixated on the A, OW. This was mostly what she talked about whenever I saw her and she was miserable. This went on for a couple of years. It was very unhealthy. I can really see how ANY contact will keep the BS stuck.
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[quote=
Yes agree with that one JT. Perhaps a lie detector test set up in Mels kitchen would be a good idea???????? [/quote]
LOL you know, I read this and thought. Yes I bet there is a polygraph machine in her kitchen, and I bet more than one WS has sweat buckets strapped to it.
Probably has a sticker on it that reads "V hav vays of making you talk" Thick Soviet accent and all.
FBH,Dad
No half measures, in anything.
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There was a tad touching on it in SAA... sadly, I have payed my copy forward for the time being.
I was kind of hard to deal with at work as I reminded a WW there how vile and disgusting her behavior was, and that she statistically only had 3 years w/ the OM - and then it would fail. And then she would be without the OM, and without her BH.
Half the time, the only words I would say to her was "3 years..."
I felt like the phone call from The Ring...
"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr
"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer
"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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[quote=
Yes agree with that one JT. Perhaps a lie detector test set up in Mels kitchen would be a good idea???????? LOL you know, I read this and thought. Yes I bet there is a polygraph machine in her kitchen, and I bet more than one WS has sweat buckets strapped to it. Probably has a sticker on it that reads "V hav vays of making you talk" Thick Soviet accent and all.[/quote] don't forget the thumb screws and the torture chair!! I am relying on Maritalbliss to find us a good image here...
BW/FWW 34 (Harmony)
BH/WH 36
Feb 2009 - Affair starts, physical for 9 days on business trip.
Mar 2009 - Separate from H, live alone
Apr 2009 - realise I have made big mistake and attempt reconciliation with H, establish NC with OM.
Jun 2009 - H physical and emotional serial A start right upto present day.
Jul 2009 - NC with OM broken and becomes EA
Mar 2010 - H reads email and discovers A
Jul 2010 - Discover MB
Aug 2010 - Plan A starts
Oct 2010 - Plan B starts
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