My situation: Married going on 13 years. Separated in fall of 2009-spring 2010 due to husband's verbal/emotional abuse. There was some physical abuse early in our marriage but that stopped when the drinking did. I could see the signs of a relapse shortly before I left, and it was leading up to physical abuse again, and I didn't take any chances for both our sakes. He is an alcoholic and did complete the cycle that I recognized was happening. Once he almost drank himself to death, he finally sobered up and agreed to counseling. Counseling was going well so I moved back in with him in the fall of 2010. He ended up working out of town for awhile shortly after we reconciled, and we couldn't go to counseling. We sort of just didn't go back. All we could afford was free counseling and I didn't feel like the issues were being addressed anyway. His issues stem from untreated ADHD and very likely other mental disorders. He was also severely abused as a child by his father and abandoned by his mother.

As for me, at the beginning of the marriage, I was needy. Then, I stopped being as needy and decided to love him regardless and become the perfect wife, ignoring my needs. Obviously that didn't work either. Then, I just started numbing myself to the point that I don't care. I guess I have become independent. I don't take anything he says to heart. BUT, the kids aren't so lucky. They have no adult ability to rationalize his words and mentally bounce them off their heads. Kiddos are like sponges. They absorb the words you say and allow them to define who they are as people. I am the only one who can protect them from their father.

I'd finally come to the place where I was making a plan to leave again. This isn't so easy because I am straddled with debt that's in my name, and student loans. I have about a year and a half left of full-time college to be able to take the CPA exam. At this point though my credit is so trashed that it will be hard to get a job. My plan was to spend the summer with the kids just doing fun stuff and relaxing with them, building up our bonds that have been stretched so thin with we working during tax season and going to school full-time. My youngest will be in kindergarten this fall, so I planned to look for whatever job I could that would pay the bills and ask my husband to leave.

Well, he threw me for a curve tonight. I'd been praying about how this was all going to work out and how he was going to react come fall. He actually came to me after the kids were asleep and told me that he is just itching to get on the road again. He's thinking about drinking on a daily basis now and it's killing him to be stuck here. He knows that I just cannot handle another move again. Physically, mentally, or emotionally, I cannot handle the instability any more. I need to be able to put down roots for me and the kids. I really felt like he heard me. I told him I'd rather him be gone for long periods of time and have us be glad to see him vs. staying here and us ending up being divorced anyway. I made it clear that divorce is where we are headed again, if something doesn't change.

So, we discussed him moving out on a temporary/permanent basis. He has a cabin where he could go stay. He could just come visit us when he's in a "good mood". He's a little worried about what our friends and family would think of our arrangement, but I told him that it really doesn't matter what they think because we would be getting divorced anyway if we don't do something. Since he can't handle the day to day life with the kids, then he needs to do the right thing and at least be the best dad he can be for them, and that may involve him not living with them.

He really has done better than his parents did, but he's not willing to do the really hard work it would take him in therapy to overcome his anger and childhood abuse issues. In light of that, I don't know what else to do.

I feel a little weird about this arrangement, but it may be my only option other than divorce. I do worry about my needs not being met, but they aren't anyway, and I don't think he's going to be able to do so. More of my needs get met when he's on the road, actually, because he'll call and talk to me on the phone for hours but not talk for weeks at home.

Anyway, I wanted to get some other opinions and see if anyone else has done anything like this.

I realize that the danger is that one or both of us may decide we want to move on to someone else. I don't anticipate that happening with me b/c my focus is on the kids, getting through school, and working on my issues that brought me to this point in my life. If he decided to move on, it wouldn't break my heart. I know that sounds cold, but I'm being honest with how I feel right now. The alternative is that we stay together and I leave in the fall anyway until he has gone through intense counseling as an individual.

Maybe some would see it as ending the marriage, but I think I view it more as just stating the obvious of what has already occurred. His verbal/emotional abuse combined with a refusal to get help, will not allow the marriage to continue in the long run anyway.

Welcome to MB Soughtout. It sounds as though you are in a state of withdrawal in your marriage.

If you are here to get help for your marriage using Marriage Builders, I suggest that you read this article by Dr. Harley (the founder of this site.)

The Three States Mind in Marriage

P.S. If there is active alcohol abuse, MB will not work. Also, if there is still ongoing physical abuse, then you SHOULD separate from your H and get help.

Hi soughtout, welcome to Marriage Builders. If your H can stop drinking and learn to control his anger, you could fall in love and learn to live happily together. The way you are going about it will eventually destroy your marriage. You are both very independent and incompatible because you have never learned how to be compatible. Your set up is basically an abandonment of the marriage and it doesn't have to be like that.

My suggestion would be to get the books, Fall in Love, Stay in Love and most especially the book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders. Those 2 books will help you understand how this can be turned around. There is no reason you have to abandon the marriage. This program would make a dramatic improvement.

Check this out: How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

He has not received treatment for his alcohol abuse, and he refuses to, although he isn't currently drinking. He is not physically abusive but he is very verbally/emotionally abusive still yet. The only times he has gotten physical is during a drinking binge. As such, I don't think MB will be what we need. I don't see any other way out, given that fact. He absolutely refuses help, even though it means that our marriage will eventually end. Letting him go is the only thing I know to do because I will have to leave him as soon as I am able to anyway because I feel like my emotions have undergone a nuclear explosion over the years and it hasn't stopped.

What other option would our marriage have to survive?

I have read through all of the steps listed here on the website. I know that I am responsible for my own part. I will try to make sure that his needs are being met until we come to a decision. However, he is unwilling to stop the love busters. He won't even sit down and talk to me about negotiating anything. He is what he is and that's how it is.

I haven't purposely gone through the steps hoping to end up at withdrawal, but I have had to in order to stop the emotional pain. If I let him have his freedom, he may choose to get help eventually. If so, maybe love deposits can start to make a difference. The abusive behavior is like a giant vacuum that just sucks any love out of the relationship as fast as it goes into the account. As long as he does not get help from a professional, there's no hope that I can see.

Maybe I'm in the wrong forum, I don't know. I'm just trying to come out of denial and face the reality of my situation.

So, under those conditions you have made the best choice because this is hopeless unless he learns to control his anger and his drinking issues. In fact, trying to meet the needs of such a person is a giant sucking hole that will avail you nothing. It sounds to me like you have done the best thing.

Hi sought, welcome to mb! Have you tried Alanon? It's great for picking up the pieces and will give you tools to share with your kids. There is also Alateen so they can get help from kids their age to love the person while detaching from the disease.

I totally agree.

My ex-husband was verbally and emotionally abusive. I have BTDT, and I'm glad I'm not there any longer.

Since you cannot do anything for your marriage until your husband gets help for his alcoholism and anger, at least you are able to protect your children from their abusive father. That's a very good thing.

What is BTDT? I read some of your story last night Kirby, and I could relate to everything you said. There was even another woman in the picture last year when we were separated. I found out from a mutual friend though that she was the one trying to pursue him and he turned her down. He only told me that they talked a lot, but there was nothing going on between them. At that point, I didn't even care about her. He has always denied cheating on me, even though he says he's had opportunities to. I'm sure that he has when he has been out at bars drinking (this has been years ago). That's the one thing he says he would/has never done. I'm not sure if I believe him though because all of them say that. It just seems strange to me that the week after things ended between them (again, I found this out later from a mutual friend), he sobered up and wanted to work on the marriage.

We were a few weeks away from the divorce being finalized at that point. He told me last night that he never should have stopped the divorce. That stung a little, I have to admit. He thinks that we are better off without him (which could be true).


During our separation, we agreed that I would bring the kids to see him on the weekends. Because neither of us could afford several trips back and forth, I ended up staying too. At first, it seemed like things were going well, and we were working through our issues. Then, one weekend, he acted weird the whole weekend. I finally confronted him and he admitted that he was drinking again. He told me that he was going to drink and that I could either accept it or file for divorce. I filed. I realized later that he had been drinking the whole time we were separated, and it had just finally reached the point where he couldn't go the whole weekend without it. I felt betrayed again, because I had been wasting my time coming down there to try and work on things with him. I think that things were heating up between him and the OW, and he was torn between who he wanted more. She was drinking with him too. I don't know that anything physical was happening, but they were spending lots of time together at her family's property around the campfire drinking. Supposedly there were people around at all times, but you know how easy it is to be alone if you want to be. When her family found out about it, they confronted him (she is young, not underage, but still living at home). He denied it and left and never went back there. I guess her family was upset b/c they believed that he should be trying to work things out between us. That pretty much ended it between them as far as I know.

That was when he sobered up and asked me to postpone the divorce. He claimed a "miraculous conversion" too and the pastor was meeting him on a daily basis. After a couple of months, I agreed to start counseling with him. I did see some positive changes in him, so I agreed to work towards reconciliation. After six months, I finally agreed to move back in with him. Things were good for a few weeks, until he started working out of town again. The counseling stopped, and so did our progress. When the job he was working on ended, he refused to go back to counseling. Things have slowly but surely gone back to business as usual. I really hoped that we were working things out and that he was finally broken enough to work on his issues, but I was wrong.

I think he loves me and the kids, in his own way, but it's not enough. I know that he struggles with alcoholism and shame and anger from his childhood, and that makes me feel guilty for wanting to separate again, but I can't allow the kids to be hurt that way. I told myself for a long time that the verbal abuse was just him "having a bad day", or that it wasn't as bad for the kids as growing up without a father, etc...

It stands for Been There, Done That.


I'm so sorry, but that has not been my experience. My two younger children are in therapy. My two older children have both told me they will never get married or have children because they think marriage is so horrible for women. My middle daughter has just entered a very destructive lifestyle.

I believe they would have been better off if I had divorced their father years ago. After we separated the children started telling me how fearful they were of their father and how much they dreaded the sound of his car in the driveway when he came home from work.

Verbal and emotional abuse is just as destructive as physical abuse.

I was in denial for many years, too. If I'd had any idea how much my children were being damaged. . . well, let's just say I would have done things differently.

Thanks Kirby! I appreciate this website, but I still have the same issue with it as with all the other dozens of self-help marriage material that I've tried over the past 13 years. None of them addressed the fact that my husband doesn't WANT to work on our marriage. He wants things to go back to the way they were when we first got married. Him calling all the shots, and me smiling sweetly and doing whatever it was he wanted to do. I just cannot do it.

I thought we were working from the same foundation, but I was wrong. How can I build our relationship up when we aren't even building from the same foundation?

He's not interested in having a relationship. I don't even think he knows what a real relationship is based on.

I've tried to get him to address his need to control me and the kids, but he just doesn't want to get it.

I don't think that there is anything I can "do" to get him to change. The only option left is to minimize the pain I will expose myself to. At this point, I am ready for an indefinite break.

I would like to think that we could be civil and live separately with him only coming to visit when he's in a 'good' mood, but realistically speaking, I don't know that it will work long-term because he will still be trying to control everything. My goal is to try to go along with it to get him out of the house peacefully without a scene. Then, I can have some space to think, get a job, go to counseling, etc........ At that point, they can help me set up some boundaries and figure out what the next step is. I'm not trying to be deceptive, but I really don't know what else to do.

Actually, if you'll really dig in and read through most of the Marriage Builders information, you'll find that this is not a "Save the marriage no matter what" philosophy. That's the reason I'm still hanging out here, even though my marriage has ended.

Dr. Harley teaches that it's destructive to a marriage for one person to always give in to the other's demands. Check out "What's Wrong with Unconditional Love?" here.

He says that the Marriage Builder's techniques cannot work when one person in the marriage is abusive or has untreated addictions. Here's part of what he says about a situation like yours.


The entire article can be found here.

So, in your situation, I believe that Dr. Harley would say that you're making the right decision to separate from your husband.

Here's another article that you might find helpful: When to Call It Quits (Part 2)

Well, we had another talk last night. He feels that we have grown apart. We are fundamentally different in our views of life/family. He doesn't want to grow old and find out that he lost out on a life of adventure in exchange for a broken down marriage.

I, once again, gave him the opportunity to get help. He refused. He wants to do a legal separation over the summer, then see what happens next from there. I made sure he knew that it was okay to do that, but without him addressing the verbal/emotional abuse issues he would not be able to move back in with us.

We haven't told the kids yet. I think it's best for them to not know until school's out for the summer. I don't want them dealing with this and still trying to get through the next two weeks. At least I can be at home with them all summer to go to counseling and work through some of our issues.

My husband has said that he will continue to pay the bills until fall. I will be calling my lawyer today to see what can be done. I did cancel the divorce last year, but they said that they keep them on file for awhile before actually closing them (who knew? Apparently a LOT of people reconcile only to split again).

My deadline for filing the divorce papers is when school starts back in the fall.

The things he said made me aware that he knows what he's doing to the kids. He said he remembered how awful it was to live like that every day of his childhood. He hated his dad for it. He said that he'd rather leave and just come visit them occasionally and have them actually WANT to see him. I asked if it bothered him so much, why didn't he get help, and he wouldn't give me an answer other than flat out refusing.

So, he is, in effect, choosing to leave the marriage rather than commit to getting help for his anger and verbal abuse. How sad!

He's an adrenaline junky, and isn't happy unless he's doing something dangerous. I'm sure part of it is chemical. Anyway, I realized yesterday that the kids and I were nothing more than another attempt by him to sooth that ache inside him that won't allow him to stay still for long. I'm sure he didn't think of it that way, but that's what happened. It took him awhile, but he's finally tired of being tied down to us.

All of this is hurtful for me to hear, but I'll take it. It's much better than the mood he was in last year when he kicked me and our three children to the curb and fought me on everything. I actually think that God is helping me through this by making it "his" idea. The only reason I came back was to see if he had changed or not. The answer is no, so we really have nothing to rebuild our marriage from.

I know I'm chatty here, but it sucks to not have anyone to talk to, since he ran off all but one of my friends years ago.

I was in the same boat when my marriage fell apart�I don�t have any good advice for you (other than be businesslike not emotional, and get everything you deserve out of this divorce, lol), but I certainly have an ear ;-)

What do you think about al-anon and Alateen?