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These would be a good reads
Wayward's Internal Wiring
How to Survive Infidelity

I think the good Dr. Harley says it best.
Hope these help.

Aaromale, your inquisitiveness is stunningly inappropriate for this site. You have admitted that you are not doing research and have no real reason for your questions. Your questions indicate a prurient curiousity that is not allowed on this site. The members here are NOT a sideshow, baring their pain for your benefit. Your questions scream 'VOYEUR' to me. If that's true, you a not a well person.

We are very protective of our members. I am glad to see that the mods have edited your posts.

aaromale,

Just looking in because I wanted to post to someone. With that number of 'edits' it sounds like you came here with an agende. I think Marital put you in your place if you came here to degrade people here. If not, then tell your story!

Tom

I understand that completely.

Why should it be that?
Why can�t it be that I am challenging my own cynicism? Ok�Not that noble. That would be a superficial answer.

Honestly, I felt appalled by what I perceive to be unfairness meted out to the BS even in the post-recovery scenario � not the fog laden Affair or Recovery period, the post recovery period which remains for the rest of their lives.

I could not accept that a BS would be so desperate to be so docile or a FWS would be so callous to be so unfair. So my posting here is to prove myself wrong about my perception.
What do I gain out of it? Some satisfaction that normal human beings (post affair FWS) cannot be cruel and fairness does exist.
I am sorry if I tried to sound like some champion set out on a quest to end all unfairness, which I AM NOT. I just wanted to prove to myself that good things like marriage do not have to be gloomy.

P.S: I just checked what prurient meant. I am sorry, but you have made a very unfair accusation against me. My curiosity is not prurient or voyeur.

Yep. It sure does suck to be a betrayed spouse. You need look no further in your quest to winnow out the truth behind the seemingly unfair position in which the BS finds his- or herself.

The part of the equation you are missing is the human emotion that lays within each BS. There is no quantifying that to arrive at a satisfactory solution behind why either spouse behaves the way they do, or why they do or don't choose to reconcile. That is absolutely specific to each situation.

I'm sorry, but your explanation still does not ring true to me. It does not explain why you would ask a roomful of hurting spouses "why" fidelity is important in a marriage.

You yourself already said that the topic of adultery is alien to you, and you are approaching posters on an adultery recovery board to satisfy your own curiosity regarding the topic. Did you also check out 'voyeur' while you were on dictionary.com? Here you go: "An obsessive observer of sordid or sensational subjects." Sorry, friend, but that appears to fit you.

Not wanting to be verbose, I wanted to start a discussion with simple questions which when followed a logical trail, might have answered why it was ok for the FWS to not feel remorse at any point of time in their marriage and still the BS could be content with it. I did not realize, it could be misconstrued and paint a picture of me as an insensitive voyeur. Btw, I knew what voyeur meant. Thanks for the definition anyway. I apologize for not having given a thought about what were the other ways (and in retrospect, the most obvious ways) my question could have been understood.

And I can't help it if you would continue to see me in bad light. I can only state what I feel/believe. To believe that or not is up to you.

Your questions can be answered right on this site, without distracting posters who are helping others or upsetting posters in crisis. Here you go:
Start Here. Follow the links at the end of each page. These are the writings of Dr. Harley, the founder of this site. His concepts are clear and easily understood. He cuts through the chaff and right to the chase on the many aspects of an affair and the effects it has on those damaged by it.

Hint for conversations on any other topics you may be interested in learning more about as you go through life: Know your audience. Starting a discussion on a website that counsels infidelity issues by asking why it's important to have fidelity in a marriage isn't logical.

How long will that behavior last? If there is a behavior that was never normal pre-Affair but lasts forever after the affair, such as the FWS being unrepentant and the BS being meek and resign to their fate, isn't that a no-win situation in the end?

Please direct your attention to the link I posted to you. Your answers are there.

Thanks for the link. I've read them before and during that time, I felt MB principles do save marriages while not compromising the self-respect of either of the spouses. When Dr.Harley talks about forgiveness, in this piece http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html, he says

Yet, in this post which quotes him,
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...p;Number=2437393&page=13#Post2433294
he says apology is not necessary.

Is it ok for the FWW (i say FWW instead of FWS, because Dr.Harley says the behavior is common among FWW), to be unrepentant and not wake up to the reality and see the affair for what it really is?

Is it expected of BHs to suck it up and deal with it and love someone who is self-righteous and believes they haven't done anything wrong?

It IS expected that people do that. However, MB does not believe in playing nice-I-won't-complain with adulterous spouses.

This is just another way for you to try and tell Doormat_No_More that he is wrong to accept recovery on these terms. You have been trying to straighten him out for months now and it is all becoming very tedious.

You have made your views quite clear. You do not find Dr Harley's description of the typical FWW acceptable. Well, if you are ever married and in the unhappy position of being a BH, you can choose the course of action that is acceptable to you. In the meantime, stop trying to manipulate this board in to saying that Dr Harley's advice is unacceptable and DNM is wrong to recover with his wife.

You are trying to combine two different actions: the act of apologizing and the act of forgiveness. Are you actually reading through the articles to understand how Dr. Harley's concepts are intertwined? It sounds like you are cherry-picking and taking Dr. H's quotes out of context, which does little for changing my opinion that you are pot-stirring.

Here: Can't We Just Forgive and Forget? Aaromale, please take the time to read and absorb the concepts here!

Oh really? You actually think that I am trying to �straighten him out�? Do you seriously believe that someone will listen to a total stranger on the internet, who has only little knowledge about the dynamics of marriages and affairs, and apply that person�s logic to his own marriage? We both know no one is that gullible. I know how �fruitful� internet arguments are and I wouldn�t waste a single minute in advising someone about how to lead their life, let alone persuading him to believe that my perspective is correct.And I won't do it because it doesn't have a practical purpose either.

I posted here after reading a story on MSN about a couple that recovered from an affair, where the FWW says �she was not sorry for the affair because it really strengthened her marriage�. I was not offended. That was her perspective and her life. But I REFUSED to believe any human with a clear conscience does not feel remorse for a cruel act. If not during the fog, then at least after it.

I posted here, wanting to know if it is humanly possible for a person to not feel remorse for his own cruelty. Maybe psychopaths or serial cheaters or highly narcissistic individuals won�t.

What I actually like to believe is that Doormat_No_More�s wife has felt remorse by now, but he doesn�t find it relevant enough for him to talk about it on MB. But I was not looking at his specific case, to reinforce my belief that there will be remorse. I wanted to hear from any MBer that remorse is inevitable. Just to reinforce my belief that humans are not that cruel/selfish and fairness does exist.

I framed my questions the way I did because I wanted to understand MB�s perspective on remorse, than just simply asking if remorse is certain to come. Because that way I thought there will be a discussion about remorse and the real character of FWS.

My way of confirming the truth is to conduct a Reductio ad Absurdum. To disprove a theory by showing how illogical its implications are and thereby confirming its opposite to be true. And I tried to do that. I didn�t know people here would be so touchy about this.

And Doormat_No_more�s story was the only one that I read this January (I have read a few others before but never fully and I do not even remember them) , because when he replied in my previous thread, I found that he was an atheist and I felt he would have a non-religious view about affairs such as I do, because my belief is close to atheism too. Reading his story and knowing that his FWW too did not show remorse, did not serve to help the belief I had about the supremacy of human conscience. Although, like I said, I had no specific interest in his case, his wife�s lack of remorse made me question my belief about the supremacy of human conscience just as the FWW�s statement in the other story did. And I wanted validation for my theory from those who have seen so much.

Wish I could have made a reply that was more coherent. But all this hostility here and my hectic day at work, don�t seem to help. I know I�ve ranted. Will edit this later if necessary.

@MaritalBliss: I am sorry. I read your reply. But I cannot comprehend its meaning because I am very tired. Will reply later. But do make up your mind. Am I a prurient voyeur or a pot-stirring troll or a voyeuristic pot-stirring troll?

I posted this to you before:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2589918#Post2589918


Those are still pretty much the only two productive approaches I can think of. I see you've chosen another approach: continuing to post while not becoming specific about your own situation, and not expending any effort to listen to the free radio show. I doubt this will be productive.

Yes I do! I wouldn't have said it if I did not believe it.

I never said anything about anyone listening to a total stranger on the internet.

But since you ask, yes I do believe that someone will listen to a total stranger on the internet. That is why people post in the help forums (Surviving an Affair, Marriage Builders 101 and the rest). They post to get help and advice from strangers who are versed in Dr Harley's MB method. That's why I post here myself, and using the advice has been enormously helpful to my marriage.

If you are not trying to straighten DNM out, you are posting to get validation for your theories on remorse, and I can't understand why you think anybody is interested in them - but it's a free country!

Oh, horse-pucky, Aaromale. Stop it with your fancy scientific lingo that is, in my considered opinion, a dressed-up way for you to observe the heartache and struggles of others for some obscure benefit of your own. Your attempt at making your obsession sound all noble and scientific isn't going to fly.

The concepts on this site work. You can't understand that because you haven't used them. I directed you to a complete reading of Dr. Harley's writings and I suspect you've read none of them, because that is not your goal. I know that. YOU know that.

No, you didn't.

I suspect it is a blend of all the above. And skip your patronizing attitude. That doesn't impress me any more than your continued self-oriented posts on this thread.