You have yet to prove that the statement "you are married until you are divorced" is subjective. Chasing religious rabbits down their subjective paths proves nothing, other than some religious groups hold higher standards.

You don't have to be religious to agree with what I've said. You are married until you are divorced. There is nothing subjective in that.

Just trying to point out that holding others' to your standards can be extended to state that all of us remarried folks here are adulterers, based on someone else's morality standards. If morality is not subjective, I don't know what is.

AGG

I don't get it, AGG. How does some people being wrong about morality make morality subjective?

That has nothing to do with the point that I've made

Well if it's immoral to be remarried according to some people's beliefs, does that make all of us remarried folks immoral, if we don't follow that standard?

AGG

AGG is there such a thing as adultery by your definition?

Of course. But I don't consider myself an adulterer just because I remarried, even if someone else might.

AGG

No, it just means somebody's wrong somewhere.

Just because some people are wrong sometimes about morality does not mean that morality is subjective. There are some incredibly interesting moral dilemmas we could philosophize about and have very interesting and intelligent debates over and might not even be able to figure out the answer with our limited human understanding, but that doesn't mean that morality is subjective.

But since they think that they are right, does that mean that you are the one who is wrong? Who gets to decide?

You are right, lots of good discussion exists on whether morality is subjective, I don't think we need to recreate it here, and I am not sure that it's what KL wants on his thread. We can always start a new one .

AGG

You choose to defend adultery.
Your argument is you didn't like your wife any more and divorced her in your mind so it's justified.

I find it ridiculous that you blame your wife for her actions yet refuse to acknowledge your own.

You place yourself on moral high ground by saying you lived with your wife as she played the role of a harlot for "the good of the kids"

Use your brain. Whose agrument is based on facts?

Is adultery wrong? Many do not believe so. Shouldn't it be considered subjective?

Strange direction.

I thought it was obvious on Marriage Builders that one is married until they are divorced.

I agree that many people's moral definition of adultery does not extend to people who are under legal separation. I also know plenty of people who think they can "emotionally divorce" and go sleep with someone else the next day.

We call that - a typical thread on the SAA section here. Nearly ALL wayward spouses say, "my husband neglects me... we're pretty much divorced, just in it for the kids" or "my wife won't sleep with me, she's divorced me emotionally, I am entitled to sleep with other women".

If we want to play the "WHAT is adultery game" according to every moral definition then nobody in the affair section deserves to whine or complain, after all they're "emotionally divorced", they just don't get it yet. Now THAT is ridiculous.

Like I said, I've worked in law enforcement myself. How many times have I told people that it is illegal to do certain things that they should be allowed to, morally? Like the man who is not allowed to beat up his daughter's molester, like the meth addict who is allowed to keep her baby because she's been "detoxed" for 1 week, or my personal favourite, when a man is beaten by his wife and laughed at because the notion is preposterous. Seen it.

Don't get me wrong, I am quite in favour of the 'law' most of the time, I couldn't be in such a field if I didn't, but it is certainly flawed when it comes to morality.

Whew! I didn't mean to stir up a such controversy. I'm fairly new to these forums, and maybe this happens from time to time, but it's not what I intended. I was just looking for thoughts on getting into a relationship too soon after the end of a previous one. Maybe next time I should try to make my question more general and not provide too much detail!

GodGiveMeStrength posted something that really caught my attention: MelodyLane's current marriage started as a relationship before her previous marriage ended?!! I was really surprised to hear that. I read through some of her early posts and found one (here) in which she describes having a conversation with Dr. Harley about her situation, and it appears that he believes her marriage is not an affairiage. His reasons echo those in AGG's post which characterize affairs as deceitful and dishonest. Melody wasn't being deceitful and dishonest, hence Dr. Harley doesn't consider her marriage to be an affairiage.

I, too, wasn't being deceitful or dishonest. My marriage was essentially over, and we were simply waiting for the time to expire so we could sign on the dotted line.

Prisca, just to keep the peace (I hope!), sorry I came across as using Dr. Harley's concepts to justify my actions. Based on what I wrote, I can see how you could interpret it that way, but that was not my intention. The concepts of Withdrawal and emotional divorce that I learned from this website helped my healing process because they allowed me to put words to how I felt during the last several years of my marriage, and this helped achieve closure.

In my mind, my marriage was over when I started dating. I was past the state of withdrawal, and divorce was a foregone conclusion. (If you're ready to respond with "yes, but you were still married," yes, I was still married, I agree with you.)

Just want to add, that while I believe Dr. Harley doesn't think Melody's marriage is an affairiage, I'm sure he feels as Melody does, that it was the wrong thing to do from the point of not having healing time. I agree with that.

I give up, whose?

Just remember, the Taliban's morality police will give you 70 lashes if your beard is not long enough. And they'll be happy to give you the "facts" to explain why their absolute morality is right and yours is wrong.

AGG

You are quoting more religous, subjective beliefs. Which proves ... what?

If you cannot tell the difference between a statement of fact and a subjective belief, I think you are beyond any help I can give you.

I wasn't looking for any help, Prisca, so no worries. I was looking for you to give me a source for the so-called "facts" that you keep referring to. Not your beliefs (since those are subjective, as you said), but facts.

AGG

Correct KL, Dr. Harley once took the stand that you had to have dishonesty and thoughtless to consider it an affairage. He has gone on to do more and more research about this. Dating while still married is a dishonest approach because the issues of why the marriage has fallen apart have not been corrected, and the person continues to self deceive themselves as to why their marriage fell apart. It is also thoughtless because it breaks the very vow you took to uphold, marriage until you are dead or divorced. Even though you are not deliberately lying to your new dating partner, you are hiding huge parts about yourself that need time and effort to correct. Dr. Harley gives it about 2 years after divorce.

No matter what happens it takes two people to take down a marriage. This forum is about both personal and marriage recovery. This biggest promoter for the board (unanimous agreement) is your boundaries around the opposite sex and your thoughtlessness of marriage are all present when you date while still married.

Those two combined may not be producing an "Affairage", but it does lead to high rate of adultery down the road.

Dr. Harley goes on to explain more that the reason these kinds of relationships are so hard to save is because neither party is able to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, albeit an affairage or you marry the partner you dated while still married.

Dr. Harley even wrote a book about this called buyers, renters, and freeloaders. Your partner who dates while still married takes at best a renter mentality. Those relationships are usually always tentative and rarely last a lifetime. They have a high rate of infidelity in them, and with an 85% blended family divorce rate ... you can see where this leads.

This forum understands what that 85% number looks like. We see it on here time and time again. Hence our only goal is to make sure someone who is divorced gets the tools needed to make the next marriage a success. When your odds are 15%, it take two strong wanna be BUYERS to build a lifetime of success.

You can debate this crap all day long. The fact of the matter is ... if you do not walk a very narrow path to a successful relationshiop ... you will end up in the same place you are now or possibly worse. SAA is your prime spot to understand how difficult it is to have a relationship when one person does not respect boundaries around the opposite sex.

Hence ... why don't you understand how boundaries will help save your next relationship. The woman you were with is by far not a keeper, and I already discussed the multitude of with her.