Hi All,

I have been reading here on MB for awhile, and I just registered to post yesterday.

I will tell my story in a nutshell. I began a long distance A almost FOUR years ago, and my H and I separated almost TWO years ago. (I was deeply in a fog) He found out about the A four months after separation, and he filed for D five months later. DUring this time I carried on with the A,(he visited the area weekly) and yet I would still occasionally ask the H if he wanted to reconcile. I just knew deep down that the A was no good, nor was the OM, but I must admit I was completely confused. This whole time, I did feel I loved my H. Very odd, until I have read here that this is common. The 'fog' thing totally hits home.

The OM relocated to live near me about a year ago. (leaving a family, sadly) The relationship with the OM began to slowly really fall apart, but I stayed with OM (he had his own place in this area) until July. After God leading me here in the spring, I read more about A's and the dynamics. I could relate completely. The OM , on top of it, was emotionally quite abusive, and I really felt caught in a sick web. I think I tried to make it work with the OM for so long just to justify having left the marriage.

I broke up with the OM in July, and he moved back where he came from. There's been no contact now in 7 weeks.(The last time he called, in early August, I hung up on him for the third time) He has respected my decision, and hasn't called again---and I blocked his email address, too. Because the relationship with the OM had gone on so long, I think the withdrawal wasn't as bad in some ways. That is to say, he'd been lying to me before I left him, so any 'visions' of him being a perfect, romantic partner were gone completely. Reality had firmly set in! Nonetheless, leaving him was still one of the hardest things I 've done, although it was truly one of the best things I've ever done.

Anyway, my divorce was final, ironically, about 4 days after the OM moved back to his own area. All this time, since spring--even before I left the OM, I would ask my H if he would consider reconciliation. He would always say, "Not now, maybe in time, but I guarantee nothing."

My now ExH has always been quiet, and not one to show his feelings. Once in August he agreed to counseling, but a few weeks later he said he wasn't ready, and needed his space. I asked him if he received the few cards I'd mailed him, and
he said 'yes, but they make me feel pressured.'

The other evening we went to a school event, meeting there--in regards to one of our three kids. We had lots of time to talk, and it was truly one of the nicest times I'd had in years. I don't know how he felt, but he looked relaxed and happy. I felt like I was 'at home', just sitting with him. I am respecting his need for space, and not saying anything or writing anything to him about 'us'.

I dream of being with him again almost nightly. Last night's dream was of a reconciliation, and was of course for me beautiful. I then wake up, and realize I 've created a horrible nightmare. He's gone, and we were married close to 21 years.
At times I feel completely beside myself with grief and despair.

Does anyone have any advice? Should I write him a card occasionally...or bring up reconciliation? I did say something directly a few weeks ago about trying again, when he brought the kids home from a weekend with him. He said he felt this was the best for everyone. I told him 'okay',and I said 'thanks for talking'. I refrained from begging or arguing,thank the Lord. Previously I told him I would wait for him, for as long as it would take, until he was ready. WAs that a mistake to say that?

All advice and insight is so needed and appreciated. BTW, as far as I know, he hasn't dated at all--I'm the only woman he's ever had. We've known each other for almost 30 years, and we have three children. We married after knowing each other for 8 years--most of that time as good/best friends, not 'sweethearts'.

Thanks in advance for your help,
Hopeful

I really don't have an answer but a suggestion.
I am sure it is still very painful for your ex
husband to realize that you were in a sexual affair for the last two years of his marriage with you and then continuing the affair for another two years afterwards. My suggestion would be for you to imagaine what your feelings would be if the roles were reversed and what words would you wish to hear from your wayward spouse? Have you told and shown him how remorseful you are for the pain that you caused him, yourself and your marriage? I wish you luck.

Hello Hopeful

Sorry to hear that you are sad and in this position. I am a relative "newbie" here, so don't have many words of advice, except read as much as you can on this site and get the books too - Surviving an Affair and His Needs Her Needs.

I do however empathise with you and the title of your post. Knowing that you actively created something that caused so much hurt and pain to those you are meant to "love and care for" is a scarey thing. It is something I struggle with daily "Why did I do such a terrible thing to my H, cause him so much pain and hurt, and I was meant to love him". It is something I desperately want to work out for myself.

There are other people out there who can give you some sound advice, and I'm sure they'll come along soon. At least it sounds as if you are communicating and interacting which is a good thing.

I hope things work out for you as wish and keep posting here - the support you will find (particularly from BS) is amazing.

Good luck.
Lisa

H_P,

I am glad you posted. So you are familar with MB and some of our stories? If so are you familar with a few of the WS recovery stories?

Keep Smiling, Trueheart and a few others post here and help many. If I can locate Redhat's thread (if you read here, you know when his name is called he oftens comes - LOL!!! ) you can find the link to SKM's thread. All were in a similar position to you.

I would like to suggest that you take the Emotional Needs Questionnaire for you and your XH. See how you both score. ONe day when you can, ask him to take it for the both of you or even just himself and compare notes. That could be the beginning of...... ?

Your H has a right to be angry. Especially when you were his one and only. I am angry and hurt at my H also. So I understand. You could also let him know that. There were several couples that posted here. So here @ MB both sides of the issue are explored.

Just a thought.

take care,
L.

First, thanks to your responses. I've been carrying all this around for a long time, and I truly appreciate the chance to discuss it and have some honest input from people who've 'been there' on one side of the issue or another.

Bryan, Yes I have told him how remorseful I am. I don't know how to show it really, other than to continue living an honest life and by continuing to be a good mother to our children. (I'm the custodial parent.) The children don't know this A started before my Ex moved out. Suggestions on how to show my remorse..please, any would help.
Should I write him another letter? (He told me awhile back that letters make him feel pressured..., I want to respect him.) I even want to show up where he lives, and try to get him to talk to me face to face. I've never done that, but I know it probably wouldn't work at all. What do you think?

Lisa, Thanks for your support and encouragement. It is helpful to read your words and know that you know how I feel. What a nighmare I've created, indeed.

Orchid, I look forward to reading more recovery stories, and I thank you for the names of those who have similiar stories. I will take the emotional needs quiz. Hopefully someday my husband (oops, ex-husband) will take the quiz, too.

I have told him too, Orchid, that I understand his complete anger. ExH told me too that he is very stubborn, and he knows it. In a way I feel he wants to return, but he can't due to his understandably wounded pride. He and I are very cordial, and civil. He took care of the house/pets while I took a trip with our kids, even after the final D.

When the A began, my H and I never had the same days off. He worked hideous night hours. Now he has 'normal' hours. I know that never having time together helped lead to my disastrous actions. I'd always been a perfect, 'good' girl my whole life. I see it as a kind of mid-life crisis thing, but I suppose that trivializes it, in the end.

Thanks--all help and advice is much needed and appreciated. It is comforting to know that I am not alone .
God Bless all of you,

Hopeful

This is just a short suggestion. I believe communication is a must and your husband does not like letters. Have you thought about simply sending him an audio tape discussing your feelings, emotions and desires. I believe that the sound of a voice can be very powerful. Again think of the things you would wish to hear if the roles would have been reversed. Remember your ex husband's ego, pride and self esteem is utterly destroyed on top of the fact that you were the only woman he was ever with. He probably feels he is a total failure to you sexually and is fearful of another failure with you. I think you may need to address these concerns.

I wish you luck.

h_p,

I posted to you on the divorce forum. Hadn't seenyour post here!!!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks Bryan for the suggestion. I need to think about it though, since it sounds like he doesn't want pressure of any kind. It seems that to him any words about our relationship at all is 'pressure'. I see the audio tape as a great idea, but unfortunately I feel it might make him angry--that I am trying again to convince him to return. Perhaps in a month or so he'll be willing to talk with me. Last spring he agreed to go to dinner, then he backed out. So I guess I just need to wait it out?? You're right , too, I need to convince him that it was 'me', and not him that caused the A. He was a wonderful husband in every way. I have told him that, but I know he could hear that again.

Thanks also to you Dawn for your post on the other thread. I appreciate your support. It means so much to me that others are well-meaning and understanding.

Hopeful

H_P,

Have you considered among other things that he feels as if he is your second choice and the stubborness will come from that angle? He has had two years of separation to deal with all of this, he has essentially lost daily contact with his children, as you are the custodial parent, and he may feel very leary of coming back when it appears that you are snapping your fingers for him to come back.

Further, you have had your fun, and since you have mentioned that no one knows about the A, including your children, you have paid a small price for this. Is this true, that no one really knows the reason for the divorce? Did many people think he was the "bad guy" in this?

If you were to look at this situation from that stand point, would you want to come back? If you have doubts that you would, then I think you now have some idea where to start this process.

It is very difficult. THere is a current poster Kily, that is in a similar but not identical situation. She has been gone for 3 years and while not married did have a child with her exBF. She wants to also rebuild the relationship.

I will tell you what I told her, Time and patience, are big factors here. Your H has reached his accomodations with the situation, nothing has changed from his point of view. With that perspective you can see that he may not want to jump back into the fire. Given your long history and the fact that you are his "only one", I suspect he has felt that you crushed him and threw him away like an old beer can.

So where to start? How old are your children? How do they feel about the situation? Have they sort of taken sides? You mentioned that they don't know about the affair which led to the separation only that it became part of their lives after the separation. Is it possible that being somewhat open with them about what has happened and what you want to happen now might help? Harley is a strong proponent of radical honesty, but not necessarily with children.

I think you can see from this post that more information may be needed to offer any concrete suggestions as to how to proceed to rebuild your marriage. It may never happen, your H may choose to never endure that sort of pain again. By the way, has he ever done any counseling? You post suggested that he hasn't. Do you feel he has recovered from all of this or has he built a wall around his emotions to protect himself from you and perhaps other women?

You can see where I am going. I hope that if you decide to answer all of these questions that you might find some useful lines of thought.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Ironically, if you felt he was a wonderful husband in all ways and still did this, then things are going to be tough. He will have a very difficult time "trusting" that you won't do this again if you decide you are bored or whatever with him. You need to understand that his self-esteem is probably pretty well shot. That was why I am asking all of these questions. There may be a way to work on this but it will take some thought and some care.

By the way, have you ever asked him to simply tell you what he feels or felt? I mean has he ever really had a chance to open up and discuss his pain with anyone, especially you after your A had died?

<small>[ September 22, 2002, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Dear Just,
Thanks for your thought-provoking insights. I hadn't thought of the second choice angle--you are absolutely correct. You're right , too, he does feel I've had my fun. I need to clarify though, that many DO know the truth of what happened, just not my children. They know (the kids)that I talked with the guy via the internet before the separation, so perhaps they deducted more than I realize. My family knows the truth, and so do many friends. I have been ostracized by many friends, and my family members have had my Ex and the children over, and not me. My own sibling hasn't invited me over since I revealed the ugly truth. So, I certainly have not had it easy--although I realize the consequences for my actions are well deserved. Finally, no one thinks he's the bad guy. But they all know the separation was basically my idea.

You're right, I can see why he doesn't want to come back.

Time and patience, I can do that. I plan on waiting at least four years, maybe more. My children are now 19, 16, and 15. They haven't taken sides, and they love us both a lot. They know that I would like to reconcile, but that their dad is hurt by my relationship with the OM during the separation.

H hasn't gone to counseling. He said he would, but then changed his mind. I don't think he has recovered at all, and yes, he has a wall around him--he's rather like that, anyway.

I appreciate your questions, I think I've answered them all. Oh, I have asked him how he feels, and he said that if we hadn't had children, he would have never looked back at all. He is deeply hurt. He did say he felt badly about everything that had happened, but that it was too painful to even deal with any of it. In other words, it seems he doesn't wish to talk about these issues at all, he told me it is just too upsetting. He told me that he is happy living alone.

Thanks for your support and well wishes,
Hopeful

You said you were your husbands only woman. Does that hold true for you as well(he was your only man), before the affair?

I truly feel for you in this situation. I might add though, that had I, or a great many other posters to these boards...had I been able to reach the point your H seems to have reached, I would have walked away from the marriage and never looked back.
That, is the kind of pain we BS suffered. Further, had I of known 20+ years ago what my wife would have been capable of, ie; the affairs, the lies, etc. I would have never considered marrying her in the first place.

I tell you the above even though we had 18 years of great marriage and family life. Even though we have 4 great kids. And yes, Even though we are now in recovery.

Do not overlook what JL has said to you. It is the hardest thing in the world not to feel like I came out 2nd choice in my wifes affairs.

It is my hope that by telling you all of this you will truly see the pain your H went through and is no doubt going through.

Everything on this site applies to you and your situation. It does not matter that you are the WS. Your best chance at recovery with your H is to follow much of the advice found here. A phone call to the Harleys' couldn't hurt either.

I wish you the best.

jd

I am sorry, but the crushing reality of being the BS is sometimes so hard to overcome. I agree with JD on this. Had I thought that my wife could have been like she is, I would never have kissed her the first time, much less married her.

I don't know what you can do, or whether you should even try. Your actions obviously hurt him beyond measure, and the excuse of work hours is just that, an excuse to the BS. Who knows what is in store for our future during all our trials, but by continually being too intrusive will not help. I suspect that during your separation, you were not interested in him in the least. But now, you want to "make it right". Well, unfortunatley, sometimes 'right' may not be together. I know how hard it was to try to forgive my wife when we were in recovery and working. The fact that I couldn't "forgive" her on her timeline is what apparently put us out for good. Maybe you will just have to back off and leave your timeline alone and work on his. 4 years of betrayal is a long time to potentially overcome. I know that the hardest part for me would to believe that it wouldn't just all happen again, and I would be very nervous about putting myself in that position again, regardless of how badly I wanted to be with my wife.

Your committment to your marriage has been proven worthless. Therefore, your actions have no bearing upon reality. Your infidelity has broken that bond and vow to one another, so what does he have to hold to when he thinks about returning? There is nothing. There is nothing to prevent another departure by you, therefore, why even try.

I know that in my recovery, I bared my soul to my wife. We 'supposedly' could talk about anything and keep things out in the open as we worked on them. Well, that was not the case. I opened up about how hard it was to forgive still after 4 months, and she decided that she just didn't want to keep trying. I think she was already thinking about or activily reengaged in her affair anyway so it was just a catalyst. But I know that any sort of reconciliation at this point would have no security for me. That may be what he is thinking about. Without that bond of security and "'til death do us part" there is nothing in a marriage.

Hi hopeful_person,

whatever you do, don't give up. I'm a BS and my H had an affair when we were married for 20 years. We just celebrated our 22nd anniversary and we now can look back to the great years we had and we're looking forward for the years to come.

Does your H know about MB'S or does he like to read??? You might want to think about giving him a few books. (Surviving an Affair, HNHN, After the Affair)
This might be a first step for himself because he doesn't seem to know how to cope with what has happened.
Have patience, this will take alot of time. Men usually have a real problem with these kinda things as they are usually not educated about "emotions". They tend to see things "black or white".

You might want to Plan A and show him through your reactions that you are "on track" again.
If he has always been a quiet person, these things will surely get him thinking.

Do you spend any time together?? Or is there no contact at all??? Did you ever share "recreational time" together???

take care
bb

Are you in counseling? If not, you should because you need help to identify what was the reason you engaged in the A. Without knowing the causes that made you chose to be unfaithful, there would be a high chance of repeating your mistake in any subsequent relationship with your xH or anybody else.

Your xH has not healed from your A, and it will be a long while before he does and is ready for any relationship with you or anybody else for that matter. He too needs counseling to help him heal.

Both of you have to heal completely before starting any relationships.

dear hopeful,

I would read this site...learn all you can about plan A...it sounds like your husband is civil and receptive to you...and those qualities can always be built upon...

Create safe and friendly encounters with you and him......NO pressure of relationship talk and cute cards or intense feelings...work on the power of just being....

You want to show him that those selfish actions are gone...and though no doubt you have caused pain, actions speak louder than words...and verbal demonstrations of being sorry and remorseful are often seen as manipulations by the bs due to their pain rather than sincere feelings...show him you care for him by being kind and comfortable for him...

Invite him for dinner with you and the kids...keep it fun and light...invite him to fun activities with the kids...accept if he says no...be gracious when accepts...use all encounters to show him that you have changed...

And this change is not for him by any means..it is the changes you must make for you so that YOU truly do become the person who would never again take anothers persons feelings so lightly...

We face ourselves in the mirror each and every day alone...regardless of who we do or do not lay down next to at night...

Don't speak your remorse...show it...plan a your little heart out...
good luck
ARK

Hi HP,

I read your story and I am totally feeling for you right now. As JL mentioned, I am in a similar situation and I will say that it is a VERY difficult endeavor to undertake. You have to reach way inside of yourself to figure out "WHY" you want this to happen and be certain that it is what you want. Baiscally you have to soul search for the answers to why the A happened, what your responsibilities were that you ran from, and if you are ready to face some of the most painful and rewarding times with your loved ones. You will be held accountable for everything you did and it takes someone that is completely convicted to overcome the road that lay ahead.

What I have learned in all of this has helped me to grow in many ways. I still fall into some real old behaviors ie trying to protect myself from vulnerability, as I did this weekend, but each time I am succesful in breaking that behavior, I have won a small victory for myself and my loved ones.

I can't gurantee that my XBF and I will ever recover, the odds are that it will not happen. I get discouraged but I pick myself off the floor and hold my head high because I know that in my heart I am doing the best that I can. My advice to you is to read, read, and read some more.....Also, let go of your husband. Love him from a distance and be his friend. Take time to learn who he is just because you can. Don't push reconciliation and occasionally remind him that he is a valuable person in your life. Give him the opportunity to know you as well. This can only happen in time and with extreme patience. Also read. There are many wonderful books out there that can help you understand the other person's position. I recommend "How one of you can bring the two of you Together" by Susan Page. This was a very eye opening and life changing book for me and I think it will help you see things differently too.

Feel free to ask me anything because I am here to learn and to help. I've included a link to my story. It's extremely long, but a lot of growth and pain are communicated there.

Kily's story

good Luck and keep posting.

Thanks to all of you for your heartfelt replies. I truly appreciate the time you took to respond to my pain, and offer me insights.

To get the insight of the BS's is truly very helpful,as well as persons who did what I did. Thanks for all of your wisdom.

Blond- I did suggest MB to my ExH-- a few months ago. You see, when I first read here about A's, it was like a bomb going off in my brain. I could so see me. The whole thing about the addiction of it, etc. Anyway, I felt encouraged at first reading here as there were success stories. I referred the website to the Ex.., well, then we were still married, but separated. He told me he tried to read some stuff here but it just made him too furious and angry.

He did agree to see our pastor, but then he backed out and said he wasn't ready. I haven't gone into counseling, no. It sounds like a good idea. I think I know the reasons why I did as I did, (the A) but more insight from a professional would be helpful, too.

Ark- I will read more about Plan A. My pastor also told me not to send the 'cute' cards, but keep contact with him light and family oriented. He too agreed that the remorse must be showed, and that words of remorse would only anger him more and more. He also told me he'd remarried many divorced couples, so this was encouraging to me. He did, however, add that before a good remarriage would be successful hard work would have to be done.

Kily-Thanks for sharing your story, and for your empathy. I will continue to read here and get support. The book referral sounds good, too.

Thanks again to all who have answered my post here. Your kindness and brutal honesty is appreciated.

Take care,
Hopeful

H_P,

I am traveling so I won't be very responsive. I think you need to realize that the divorce is only a month or so old. My guess is that while you now see that you didn't want this divorce, your H now sees this as an opportunity to explore other parts of life. He may well date, since he apparently hasn't since before you two were married. He may just want to be alone, which suggests that he may be very depressed. As you can see, time and patience will see these two possible situations change.

Someone suggested that you invite him to come over to be with the children on special events. Please do that. I asked your children's age for a reason. They can help you and your H. How?
Well, your H probably feels at best second best in your choices, but he might not be seen that way by the children. Anything they can do to pump him up emotionally will help. It will be coming from a third party.

I would strongly suggest that you talk to a counselor preferably one of the Harley's. Why them? Well there are other good counselors out there but finding them can be iffy. These people are known for their work in saving marriages. Your pastor is probably a good choice, but it will be awhile before your H is ready to talk to him. Men hate to admit that they were the losers in these situations.

The other question and suggestion I have is about what your H does know. Does he know how long ago this A took place? The suggestion is to consider that you have been dealing and deciding what you want to do for quite awhile. Your H really has had little say or encouragement about this situation. So his skepticism is reasonable. I don't recall if he filed for the D or you did but his feeling of powerlessness is a huge issue.

I hope you didn't feel I was attacking you about the "paying" issue. My point was that he might well feel this way. Oddly enough it seems to me that you might have the best chance by being successful as a single mother. By that I mean, the issue of second best is huge, and takes time, but if you are competently leading your life and he realizes you don't need him, but do want him in your life and love him, this issue might be reduced abit.

This stuff is tough isn't it? Somethings seem so backwards. Just remember you cannot go wrong being loving and kind to him when you get the chance. I hope that gradually he will be able to talk with you about things, for his own good. I suspect he is holding a lot in, and that is not good.

There is a saying used by a poster here that I think really is important:

Resentment is like taking poison and waiting of the other guy to die.

You cannot educate or pull your H out of this, but you can help him by keeping him in the loop and making sure that he knows how you feel about him, that you respect him (if that is true), and that you will do your best to work on a future with him.

So keep posting and talking. Perhaps now your H might be willing to come here. In any event hang in there and do talk with your children about your goals. It may help if they understand what went on, but that is your call and is not something anyone here could really tell you one way or another to do.

So hang in there and give it time. It is crucial for both of you two deal with this so that your futures relationships with each other or someone else can be healthy.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks, JL. I appreciate your suggestions and insights very much.

The children are 19, 16, and 15. I just left a message on his phone to see if he could attend an upcoming event for one of our kids. We'll see.

I agree, time and patience. You are right, it is now his turn to call the shots, so to speak.

I think about him so much of the time, but I haven't expressed it to him lately as he told me it only makes him feel pressured.

He filed for the D, as I kept stalling on it. He wanted me to do it, but I wouldn't. I knew instinctively the A was a huge , dumb mistake--but I was in a completely odd state, in my mind. That's no excuse, but it was how it felt. The whole time though, I did have a cordial rapport with my now ExH. I thought of him a lot then, believe it or not. Even the OM knew that--I told him so. Crazy stuff!

Enough said...thanks again for your advice,
Hopeful

Hi HP.

I couldn't help but think about what you said about your R with your xH being cordial before and after your divorce. Your mentioning that your divorce attorney saying that she had not met a kinder xH than yours, speaks volumes as to the kind of person your xH is all about. In a strange way, your xH was a kind of poster boy for plan A and the power of kindness. And this is not the only time a divorced FWS, like yourself, has come and expressed a longing for the kindly xBS that has let go.

If your xH had reacted in a hateful, hurtful, and vindictive fashion towards you after learning about your A, you probably would have felt justified in having had your A and would not be terribly suffering his absence after your divorce.

Kindness can be a thousand times more powerful, and terrible, than vindictiveness.