I had this posted in Emotional Needs and it was suggested I repost this here. If anyone has any advice what to do next I would appreciate it as I don't think I am thinking that clearly right now as I feel numb and in shock about what is going on.

Well it has been an interesting few days. I have been rearranging finances and as suggested doing some follow up snooping.

So while my son and I were in California I find out that my wife and the "friend" had gone on a little hike, apparently a neighbour asked her why she was in the OM vehicle, and she made up some story about her car being broken down.

During this same time he (OM) had been over several nights for supper, while we were gone. This of course all in the name of friendship. I also found out that prior to our trip my wife recieved a phone call on her cell phone while were were at our friends place. She explained it was a female friend of hers calling. I find out now it was the OM calling. Hmmm. If this is friendship then why did she have to lie? Why is he calling on her cell phone?

Initially I was in denial about the EA but now I am confronted with this information and seems to me there is no denying it any longer.

How I wished you were wrong. Congratulations for all of you who persisted with me on getting it through my thick head that there was an affair going on. So now how does one trust again?

As may of you are aware there are so many emotions a person feels at a time like this, and none of them feel very good. I have a knot in my stomach the size of a basketball right now . So as you so aptly advised secure the finances, it looks like the next step will be the formality of separation. And if she wants to separate she can make the move out the door. As my grandma used to say "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger". I can only hope.

I cannot understand how my WW can reconcile her behaviour before God. It is inconcievable how this can be rationalized. Does commitment mean nothing these days? It is difficult to continue on with Plan A under these circumstances. Right now I am not sure I really feel like pursuing the relationship. This is a real kick in the teeth.

I guess I better double my efforts to find a lawyer. So far the lawyers that have been recommended to me are so busy they are not taking on any more clients. I guess things must be busy in the separation and divorce business.

Well, i am sorry you found out, but relieved you found out the truth. You can't do much to save your marriage if you don't have the facts.

You might want to have this thread moved over to the General Questions 11 forum which deals mostly with infidelity. This forum is great, but their main focus is not infidelity. You can hit notify on the bottom of any of your posts and just type in a request to move the thread.

Now, do you want to get to work on saving your marriage? Because if saving your marriage is your goal, then you don't even SPEAK about separation except to tell your wife you will not cooperate with any separation schemes.

Your wifes affair is doomed from the start. 95% of affairs crumble in the first 2 years. It will not last 2 years because the very things that made her affair possible, thoughtlessness and deceit will cause it to crumble. You can save your marriage, if you are an attractive place to land once it does crumble.

There are very effective ways to make it crumble FASTER though, and that is through exposure. Exposure is your most potent weapon because affairs thrive on secrecy. It is like turning on the lights in a crack house; it ruins the high.

Good exposure targets are parents, friends, siblings, employers, etc. Children should be told BEFORE this happens so they are prepared and braced for the lies told by the WS. We can walk you through all this.

Additionally, I would pay the OM a visit and have a come-to-Jesus with him. Let him know that you will fight for your marriage and ask him what his intentions are wtih your wife. Explain to him that he will NEVER...........EVER....set foot on your property again or you will have him arrested.

Have you checked her email for evidence yet? Did you tap the phone? I would get this all in place before you launch any nukes. GET some irrefutable evidence before you start.

you asked:




I presume you mean trust your wife (who lies) and are not talking about trust in people in general.

Trusting your wife is not the current problem.
Ending her affair is your current problem.

I recommend you do the following (pretty much simultaneously):

keep a journal
dates - times - everything you can think of - keep the journal private

secure your finances - cancel all but one credit card in your name only - take half of any joint savings and put it somewhere just in your name

DO NOT confront her further - behave with upmost civility and kindness while you continue to gather information - in other words, lower her suspicion and spy on her

find out everything you can about OM - there is a ton of spyware available and a GPS on her car is an excellent idea

and then let us know what you learned

Pep

Y'all, just so you know, his wife recently made him move into the basement and told him they are "separated" and started bringing her stud in the house for DATES. While bcboy sat in the basement. bcboy told me this was his wife's "friend." I explained to him this was her OTHER MAN and that he should never ever tolerate this man coming on his property again. [i would have escorted him to the door at the point of my pistol] He has told his wife this and quickly getting himself up to speed. He is a QUICK STUDY.

That is where we started, but you can read his other thread here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2089534#Post2089534

I need to know what my next step should be. I am just shaking right now, as I have just confronted the OM and asked him to have a little respect for our marriage. I just drove by the beach where my wife and her female friend were and I see the OM walking down the path to see her. He tells me just to say "Hello". BS to that. He says to me there is nothing going on, he can see how it looks bad but there is nothing going on. I told him to stay away from my wife, and he says no problem, but we will see.

So Melody suggested posting here so here it is. Help anyone? What now? What do I do regarding my wife? What do I do regarding me?

Thanks

bcboy, did you do some snooping and get some strong evidence like I suggested?

I think you need to expose the affair, but I believe you need to get some stronger evidence.

Let me explain why I am suggesting exposure. Affairs thrive on secrecy. Exposing an affair is like turning on the lights in a crack house and bringing in a crowd to watch the crack heads. It ruins the high. Exposure is like CHEMOTHERAPY TO CANCER and ruins the fantasy aspect to the affair.

When your wife is forced to look at the disgust in the face of others, she will begin to see herself through the eyes of others.

Good exposure targets would be her parents, her siblings, your parents, close friends, the OM's parents, his children. When you expose to your family members, you will tell them you are trying to save your marriage, tell them all about the affair and ASK FOR THEIR ADVICE. When you ask for their advice, they are more likely to want to help you. It is very helpful when they speak to your wife about it.

Your children should be told of the affair FIRST.

Exposure is best done in ONE FELL SWOOP to get the maximum effect. It also prevents the affairees from pre-empting you.

I want to APPLAUD you for confronting the OM. I would suggest you do this every time he contacts your wife. Make as much trouble in his life as possible. He is a coward and a weiner who wont like havng to face his victim. He doesn't care about your wife and won't like the trouble.

HAVE YOU SNOOPED ON HER TO GET THE GOODS?

Snooping is a bit of a challenge here is why:
1) No email trail as she is not technically savy and does not have an email account. If she needs to send an email she gets our son or me to do it
2) Cell phone records are challenging as she has a prepaid phone so you do not get the call records.

The only option I have is to be aware of when they meet, like I found out tonight when he dropped in to say hello tonight. But tonight was the last straw. That is why I confronted him. I think it is about time I grew a backbone and stood up to this nonsense. I want to reconcile with my wife but I will not tolerate this any longer, even if she says to me that it will harm our relationship if I "make a big deal out of this".

As far as exposure I have told our children and close friends. We no longer have living parents. She was embarassed about me talking to them about the EA she was afraid that they would think of her as a "hussy". I told her even though she tells me it is just friendship that is how things get started. I told her she is having an emotional affair with another man.

I told her an "emotional affair" is an affair excluding sexual intimacy but including emotional intimacy. When she is sharing her thoughts and feelings with another man that damages our relationship, and I find it incredibly hurtful. I just watched the video clip on Infidelity and I agree this is the most painful thing I have ever had to face. The emotions run wild.

She repeats it is just friendship, and reminds me we are "separated" even if I am living in the house, we are "separate". She then tells me she is not working on the relationship right now, she cannot, she is having to work on herself and she needs to get healed up. She says I need to work on myself at the same time, and who knows perhaps there might be a chance of getting back together in 6 months to a year, no guarantees. (I am interpreting this to mean it is over in her mind).

So that is where it stands right now. I just wished I had a roadmap for this journey.

If you have like a virgin mobil prepaid phone its not to hard. What type of pre paid cell phone do you have?


Thats great keep that backbone growing.


If theres 'nothing' going on then she shouldnt feel like shes being called a 'hussy'. And yes that is how it starts you are right. She needs to put the effor that she is in the OM onto you. If shes able to 'be friends' with this OM then why cant she make that time.




Wow. OK she needs to get off her horse and face reality. I hope you are keeping a personal journal of all her actions with you in the home. Meaning this OM coming over etc... Because at this rate if you let her decide divorce then guess what its not in her favor. If she needs time to work on herself then she needs to be telling the OM the same BS she is giving you. I take that back she needs to NC the OM and say hey I am going to work on my M and myself. Im sure she knows how to multi-task?

Just keep getting stronger and smarter and get your ducks lined up. You are and have been exposing. Oh well what others think. The goal is to say hey we have a problem and guess what all help is needed in this.

Don't worry standard fog babble. So... did y'all file married or seperate on income taxes? I'll be its only "seperate" when its to her convenience. Next time she says we are "seperated" you need to respond with "We are married, married, married"

"Dr cure thyself" ..indeed.. The only way she can heal is to stop hurting her family and maybe she can start looking at herself in the mirror again.


Y'know .. i heard this same crap in real life.. Hell I was even told to go find someone better..


You do have a RoadMap, what articles on here have you read so far?

I have been reading many of the articles on the side bar, and I am spending 2 - 4 hours per day reading the forum (I find that very useful).
Been reading stuff on Emotional Needs - Infidelity - watched video from one of Pepper** links on Infidelity. Read information on Plan A (which I am doing) and Plan B. Was asked to move out by wife but I am staying thanks to advice from forum. She says we are separated. I tell her we are still married.

Speaking of fog I am in one myself. Since I found out she wants to separate I have been drifting in and out of a fog. I am not thinking clearly, not sleeping well, emotions all over the place.

I read on the forums to start looking after myself better so I am now:
1) Going to the gym
2) meeting friends for coffee
3) eating regularly and healthier
4) standing up for myself and stopping to be a doormat - thanks to the kind folks on MB here.

I can see why this forum is so valuable, you can read the information, get the idea, then get a sanity check and implementation ideas here. Man I think if I did not have the feedback from here I would be going crazy second guessing myself all the time. I like to get the feedback from the forum as I find it help prevent me from doing something stupid. Actually it has also helped me get moving on some issues that I was letting slide.

Regarding snooping on the phone. The cell is in Canada and is with a pay as you go provider that does not give you a call record.

Regards
BCBOY5440

First thing I would do is sleep in my bed tonight. Kick her rear into the basement. Stop letting her walk all over you!

If I had a nickel for everytime I read this excuse or a variation thereof, I'd be a rich woman. This is standard fog babble! What she means is she wants you to back off (give me space, time, etc) so she can continue her affair.

Welcome to MB, but sorry you are here.

Great! You're reading the articles here. You may even consider calling the Harley's for some coaching. I hear they are terrific in helping you get a "plan of action" established. They're a little expensive but way less than a costly divorce.

Get out of the basement! This is your home. If she wants to "separate"... let HER go to the basement. Your mantra in response to her fog babble is: I don't do divorce. I am trying to save our marriage.

Good job on confronting the OM. Is there anyone in his life that you could expose to? Have you exposed to anyone else in her life? Parents, friends, job? You don't do it to be vindictive. You do it to ask for support. You say basically that my wife is having an affair with OM and I'd like your support in trying to save my marriage (or something like that).

BTW, you've got some GREAT people posting to you. LISTEN TO THEM. They won't guide you wrong.

bcboy, I would be a broken record in response to this fog, which I believe means she thinks she can announce she is "separated" and therefore entitled to commit adutlery, no? Isn't that what she means?

Have you asked her what she believes this means? Because if she thinks she can announce you are separated and is magically entitled to commit adultery in front of you, she is wrong. SHE NEEDS TO BE TOLD THAT A) SHE IS NOT ENTITLED TO COMMIT ADULTERY AS LONG AS YOU ARE MARRIED AND B) IT WOULD BE PROFOUNDLY CRUEL FOR HER TO COMMIT ADULTERY WHILE LIVING TOGETHER.

This is a discussion I would have with her, bcboy, because this needs to be cleared up.

I would respond like a broken record:

"we are married until we are divorce. Neither is free to commit adultery."

That might address her odd statement that you are "separated" when you are so obviously living in the same house.

Have you moved back into your own room, bcboy? Have you searched her drawers for any letters, journals or cards that might give you some indication about the affair?

AT what point does one go to plan B?

I have been in plan A but I do not see any desire in my wife to restore the relationship. I do not see her wanting to cut off contact with OM. As far as NC and letter that is not even a discussion point.

At this point I am wondering why I would even want to pursue her. I cannot believe how the level of trust can be destroyed. And as many of the other posts I have read she is right on schedule for her blaming me. She is bringing up issues that happened over 25 years ago. It seems to me if someone is going that far back for reasons for their behaviour they really want out of the relationship. It is becoming clear to me that she has an emotional void in her life that I cannot fill. Who am I to think I can try and force to someone to stay when they so clearly want out.

After you have been betrayed, lied to, decieved, how do you work on a relationship when the other person has no interest in working on it? All I can see she wants is another option for herself if the A does not work out.

I think that there are forces at work that are beyond my control. She confided in a mutual friend that she thinks God placed the OM there to show her there may be someone else out there for her. How do you get to this conclusion???? I think we are beyond fog here. This situation is starting to get too (confusing/ wierd/ sick/) to make sense of.

I am committed to being honourable in my actions. At what point do you stop being honourable and become either a doormat or self deceptive that there is hope for the relationship?

Thanks for helping me through this.

bcboy:

Sorry you have found yourself in a sitch that brings you here, but you are in great company, and so many here are willing to help.

You and I are of the same age, and our wives are close. I've been married for 23 years (2nd marriage for us both). I discovered my wife's A the day after it went physical, she was having an EA for several months previously.

Like you, I had all the same questions you are now raising. The world you have known for decades has been turned inside out and upside down.

It may help you to understand and deal with your W's A if you research on the physiology of infatuation. By this I mean more than just the idea of a teenage crush. There are certain things that occur physiologically and psychologically when an infatuation is triggered. In a nutshell, it sounds like your W has become addicted to OM. If she has become infatuated, his presence and his voice now trigger a flood of neurotransmitters in her brain which bring her a euphoria that is addictive, literally. And, while under the influence of this infatuation (what is often called the "fog"), she will do and say things you never thought she was capable of before. She will lie to your face. She will deceive you. She will do most anything to maintain her relationship with OM. She will have little consideration for you.

The bad news is, that while under the influence of the infatuation, she is really only thinking of OM. She probably thinks about him constantly. There is a very high risk that her relationship will progress to a sexual one.

The good news, such as it is, is that infatuations have finite durations. Most seem to say that 6 months is a typical duration, while a few say it can last up to 2 years. But it does end. It ends because the brain cannot maintain the necessary level of production of those love hormones and neurotransmitters. For my W, it has been 5 months since PA began, and about 7 months since EA began, and she is just now acknowledging what an idiot she was.

While W is under the influence of the infatuation, there is little you can do about her and it. But, your challenge is to lay the foundation for when the infatuation subsides. This is where the Plan A comes in. By it, you show her that you can be an ideal mate, able to meet her EN's, both those you had in the past and those that are being fulfilled by OM.

When the infatuation subsides, several things can happen. Usually, the WS comes to realize the whole A was a big mistake and poor judgment, and returns to the marriage. Other times, the WS and OP cement there relationship, and develop a more enduring form of love, typical of what is shared by most married or long-term couples. The strategy of Plan A is to throw a wrench into the latter possibility, and create an attraction to you that will preclude her forming a long-term love with OM.

But it doesn't always work. Sometimes the A isn't discovered until after the infatuation has wore off, and a long-term love has developed. But, for whatever reason, if the A continues past the infatuation stage, then Plan B is probably appropriate. But, you shouldn't be too hasty to jump into Plan B, especially if the A is in its beginnings, as it sounds for your W. You should be ready to carry out a Plan A for 6 months or so, just so you don't miss the opportunity to jump back in after the infatuation wears off.

To cope with my WW's A during the Plan A, I had to get a script for anti-depressants from my doctor (they're actually for treating anxiety and panic attacks, not just depression). I needed them because the anxiety was keeping me up most nights (knowing what the 2 of them were doing) and then causing me to nod off asleep during the day, once while I was driving down the interstate at 65 mph. You might consider the same if your anxiety becomse too troublesome.

Other than that, just prepare yourself for a long and gut-wrenching rollercoaster ride. Best of luck.

More info on infatuations (layman level):
http://www.sosuave.com/articles/infatuation.htm

Nope, all very typical fog-babble, along with, "we're soul-mates" and "we were pre-destined" and, for my WW and OM, "we're kindred souls from a prior life." yeck! Yes, it is weird and confusing, but all very typical of the modus operandi of the FOG.

As discussed in my prior post, I kept my sanity and patience by attributing her behavior to her infatuation. I didn't excuse her, just like we don't excuse a drunk for causing an accident while dui. However, once I understood that she was under the influence of her infatuation, I could approach her more clinically and less personally. It helped keeping my sanity and patience.

Galoot / BCBoy,

I am around the same age and went thru a similar scenario 3-4 yrs ago. I have wondered - it seems that when one has combined life events such death of parents, change of life and the empty nester syndrome - this can create a mid life crisis which can add to an affair vulnerability. Add a predator type OM with nothing to lose, and the infatuation chemicals - you have a perfect storm in the making.

bcboy - protect yourself during this crisis, nothing wrong to lean on your adult children during this time - time for them to be counted on. You do not deserve to be treated in this manner no matter how stale the marriage had become. Do not tolerate any disrespect in your home.

you have received good advice.

Even with prepaid phones, you can set up an online account with the provider to see your call history. If your W hasn't done so already, you can set one up, usually, if you have the electronic serial number of the phone. Otherwise, if your wife has set one up, you'll have to know her password

rwinger:


That is the exact diagnosis I came to. My W turned 50 last fall (yet still quite attractive and often passes for late 30's). She had, way back when, given up her career to raise her kids, one of which of whom is now a serious disappointment. Her mother died 2 years ago, and she's shown the first signs of premenepausal. She was definately into a mid life crisis. Coupled with that was the fact I am out of town most of the time at a new job. Along comes this guy at our church who, while now very religious (at least on the surface) is a divorced, macho bad boy at heart (a latino paroled felon) (i.e., a predatory OM with nothing to lose). Like you said, a perfect storm brewing.

We are heading into empty nest syndrome this fall as son is off to college. Parents both dies in the last 5 years. She was a stay at home Mom and is disappionted with the relationship she has with her kids. She says she has been unhappy for a long time. Both oldest daughters think she has Borderline Personality Disorder and feel they have to keep her at a distance. No kidding about the perfect storm. I feel sick all the time. I just retired early from work and now this.

We are both Christians or supposed to be. How can one rationalize this behaviour is beyond me. This goes completely against what the beliefs are and breaking our vows before God. Perfect storm is right.

Thanks for the replys it is nice to get support from someone who has been there. Been to the Doctor for perscription yesterday as I am not sleeping either. I feel like I have been stabbed in the heart. And right now the way I feel is for this betrayal I may not want to continue with someone who I cannot trust.