Hi. It isn't really enough to just jump right in there and start advising people. I know you claim God is on your side, but the rest of us really don't know that without knowing you. So please tell us what's up, what you've been through, and how you know what you know.

Be aware that many of the rest of us know God as well, and some of us are even able to see through fraudulent claims.

Please keep in mind that this site doesn't belong to you. You wouldn't take money away from people to give to a ministry, no matter how worthy you think it is. It would be just as wrong to steal a house, a pulpit, or a website to contribute to your ministry.

Anybody can claim to know God. It doesn't give them the right to expect instant respect from people. Testify, brother. Let us evaluate your claim.

I agree with you that God is the creator of Dr. Harley and surpasses the good doctor in wisdom and preeminence. But I don't think you have a monopoly on God's wisdom any more than Dr. Harley does, and I seriously doubt you've saved anywhere near the number of marriages that Dr. Harley has. Dr. Harley also claims to know God, and while his materials are offered in a secular way, they are Christian (Biblical) principles. If you want to contradict part of the Marriage Builders program, please have the courtesy to try to respectfully persuade us of the truth of your insight, rather than merely showing disrespect to this man who has helped so many of us, in his own ministry from God. Showing disrespect is not a way to win people's confidence at all.

For anyone else reading along (I'm sure we all want to hear what you have to say and evaluate its merits), let me just copy your signature for everybody to read. The beginning of it is copied from the text at the top of every page of the Marriage Builders forum, and then it follows with MountainClimber's own comment:

"Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others." **OR** by those who have solved their marital problems through God, the one who invented man, woman, and marriage.. and Dr Harley.

I'm so glad you posted this Markos. I was wondering the same thing. I have my own thoughts about this person but I'll keep them to myself for now and give him the benefit of the doubt. Let's see if he's for real.

Not to pile on, but I'd say that if one just starts giving advice without first having the facts, such as if a couple is married or not, then their spiritual anointment may be a bit suspect.

With that said, I think it's great to have enthusiasm. However, it is to be tempered with love and wisdom. As I've read it, scripture speaks more about love and wisdom than it does enthusiasm.

To pile on: If Mountainclimber is gonna give advice along the lines of "why not have a glass of wine or two at night to help you calm down and take the edge of that anxiety and stress?" to posters who come here for help, then it'd be nice to hear where he or she is coming from.

As for the prosyletizing, I've admittedly sprinkled a few pieces of Scripture into my posts from time to time when I've been able to see a salient place for it. You can look it up. But the thing is, I don't think God just zaps our problems away like lightning -- not for waywards, and not for betrayed spouses. Often, He will give us certain tools to deal with our problems. There are some pretty darned good tools in MB, and they can save marriages (the goal of this site) irrespective of whether they save souls per se. Now whether, as Mountainclimber has suggested (perhaps tongue-in-cheek), Jack Daniels is one of those tools, is potentially a fascinatin' subject for debate, but y'know, I'm not sure this is the place, and I'm not sure everyone will get the joke, and I'm just not sure I do either.

Mountainclimber, maybe you've lived some of the horrible hurt, or (like me) caused some of the horrible hurt, from which the specific experience that the Harleys offer has been learned & developed, and which many posters on these boards address, wrestle with, and/or help to disseminate. Maybe that experience of yours can be brought to bear in specific, sound advice. Or maybe it'll help put your advice into some sort of context. But if you're gonna tell some folks to get to church, and tell other folks to have a drink, I hope you can let us in on how you came to this wisdom, or how it came to you. So let's hear 'bout the road you've walked. Hold my whiskey until afterwards.

This made me think of this poem that I love...

God hath not promised skies always blue,
Flower-strewn pathways all our lives through;
God hath not promised sun without rain,
Joy without sorrow, peace without pain.

But God hath promised strength for the day,
Rest for the labor, light for the way,
Grace for the trials, help from above,
Unfailing sympathy, undying love.

God hath not promised we shall not know
Toil and temptation, trouble and woe;
He hath not told us we shall not bear
Many a burden, many a care.

But God hath promised strength for the day,
Rest for the labor, light for the way,
Grace for the trials, help from above,
Unfailing sympathy, undying love.

God hath not promised smooth roads and wide,
Swift, easy travel, needing no guide;
Never a mountain, rocky and steep,
Never a river, turbid and deep.

But God hath promised strength for the day,
Rest for the labor, light for the way,
Grace for the trials, help from above,
Unfailing sympathy, undying love.