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Markos,

I'm not telling him how to feel. I'm simply stating show me the proof to your accusations. He is creating a lot of misery and I am trying to SHOW him there is no sense to the paranoia. He is definitely allowed to have his own feelings. My problem has been that he won't ever express them!! He likes to use this line against me after being on these forum "You can't tell me how to feel" And he is right I can't, but I'm trying to tell him not to over analyze and he can't seem to differientiate the two. I actually feel bad for him that he can't let things go.

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Seriously has anyone on these forums had a baby and just not wanted to have sex? Screaming, crying, bathing, feedings, getting out of the car one hundred times a day with three kids.
Whoa, I hear ya! It's exhausting! It's almost as hard to explain that exhaustion as it is to explain the pain of childbirth - you've just got to go through it to really understand it. hug Well, we're working with Hilltopper and helping him to see where you're coming from on these things.

PS - grace, it's counterproductive to read Hill's thread. Stay off there, okay? We're taking good care of your hubby. And we'll boot him off THIS thread if we catch him over here, as well. wink


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Excellent post by markos.

trace, you did a great job in trying to meet your H's ENs last night! I am sorry it turned out the way that it did...

Can I just say in your H's defense...and Dr Harley says something along these lines in his online seminar...when you see all these MB principles and techniques, your expectation can rise dramatically for what you want in your M. Your H definitely needs to calm down and have more patience but at the same time, I GET it, wanting things in the M to better soooo badly. But yes, he needs to chill out.

Hang in there, tgrace. {{{{{tgrace}}}}}


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Oh, grace, at one time my kids were newborn, 1, 2, and the oldest had just started school. I gave birth three times in three years! I was exhausted and it was pure awful. I feel your pain!


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
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Personally, I just don't think a lot of you understand. I've just been accused three times from my husband of having an affair without any evidence, ZERO!!! I'm open access to anything. Then he makes a revolting comment last night after I just fulfilled his biggest need. This hurts and on top of all this I just gave this man our third beautiful, healthy child and God help me for lacking in the sexual department and caring for his children. I'm all about opening up and caring and showing my husband I care about him as well. But I'm NOT just going to lay down here and take it. I'm fighting for my marriage, my self dignity and my children! You think I'm a little offended lately, then your right on the mark!!! I'm willing to move on from his disgusting comment from last night, why can't he move on from anything as simple as not texting him back in two seconds.

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Originally Posted by tgrace1328
hold her hand,

sorry I don't agree with you what so ever on the paranoia. The neglect and insecurity I get, but paranoia being defined as "baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others." His personality by nature is critical and analytical. It wasn't until he hit these forums that he got paranoid because of other infidelities and their experiences. He created ideas in his head that he analyzed, stewed over, and thought of constantly.

I'm not making excuses or reasons, but I definitely told him about my lack of sexual drive during this time with the baby. I've always told him how much I appreciate him and how I love his help with the cooking, kids, around the house and how hard he works. That has never been left off the table. Seriously has anyone on these forums had a baby and just not wanted to have sex? Screaming, crying, bathing, feedings, getting out of the car one hundred times a day with three kids. I love my kids and yes it is exhausting. A good mother is exhausted if she is doing her job. I think I passed out with the baby on the couch the first two months by 7:30 or 8:00 everynight. That leaves a lot of time for sex! Again he has always been told how much I appreciate him. I have been terrible at hugging and cuddling with him I admit and of course now I know how important that is. But you are WRONG on the paranoia.

Well, I can tell you that a good father knows when to step in and give his wife a break, and a good mother knows that you allow that to happen, if we are exchanging opinions about "good parents."

Quite honestly, I think that while SF may be one of his top needs, it's really the last thing on the list with you two tossing around all these Love Busters at each other, and grasping at every straw to excuse this poor behavior towards each other.

The solution is to stop Love Busting each other!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by tgrace1328
Personally, I just don't think a lot of you understand. I've just been accused three times from my husband of having an affair without any evidence, ZERO!!! I'm open access to anything. Then he makes a revolting comment last night after I just fulfilled his biggest need. This hurts and on top of all this I just gave this man our third beautiful, healthy child and God help me for lacking in the sexual department and caring for his children. I'm all about opening up and caring and showing my husband I care about him as well. But I'm NOT just going to lay down here and take it. I'm fighting for my marriage, my self dignity and my children! You think I'm a little offended lately, then your right on the mark!!! I'm willing to move on from his disgusting comment from last night, why can't he move on from anything as simple as not texting him back in two seconds.

NOBODY is excusing HIS behavior, it is being insisted BY YOU that we are.

NOBODY expects you to "lay down and take" abuse. NOBODY.

As for caring for the children, here is what the word is here;

Quote
Children desperately need parents who stay married to each other, and love each other. Their future depends on it. Yet, their parents are very likely to lose their love for each other after they arrive, because they forget why they married.

They didn't marry to raise children -- they married to meet each other's intimate emotional needs. And the presence of children tends to make them think that they don't have time and energy to meet those needs anymore. When that happens, they lose their primary motive to be married -- their love for each other.

A man and woman usually decide to marry because they have formed a very successful romantic relationship -- they are in love with each other and are meeting each other's intimate emotional needs. They want to make that romantic relationship last a lifetime, so they marry. At the time, they are optimistic about keeping their love for each other alive, and they don't expect anything to threaten that love -- least of all, children. But if they were to understand how their love was created, and how it is sustained, they would immediately see why children are such a risk.

Caring for Children Means Caring for Each Other.

Yes, you have an infant. Yes, it's hard on a mother, especially with 2 other young children. No, you aren't going to be all amped up for sex.

NOBODY is stating any of that, that again is YOUR insistence.

I will say this; don't use "being a mother" as yet another excuse for treating your husband like crap. NOT ACCEPTABLE.

It's what has destroyed your marriage, and continuing to do so is just going to continue to destroy your marriage and your husband's love for you.

You aren't "offended" you are defensive. Don't defend a bad marriage. Allow the people here, who have seen hells you cannot imagine (or, as you like to state "we don't think you understand") and have gone on to create loving, romantic marriages.

We are promoting your HAPPINESS.

Knock off the crap, OK?


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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From an outsider's perspective, you are continuing to bring up the whole A episode as well. This has become redundant and is draining both of your LB$s. I would recommend you both drop it. Your H has agreed to stop accusing you of an A. Give him a chance to honor that.

Next, from what I understand, he has apologized and admitted the comments last night were way out of line. I understand if you are still upset (which you can tell him) but don't bring that up when you are talking about a new complaint. It just confuses and escalates things.

So what is happening now is he is getting upset when you don't text him back in 2 seconds, is that right? Can you tell him in a calm way that that is bothering you and you WILl get back to him when you have a chance?

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Originally Posted by tgrace1328
He is definitely allowed to have his own feelings. My problem has been that he won't ever express them!!

And when he does;

Quote
I am trying to SHOW him there is no sense to the paranoia.

You level a disrespectful judgment at him!


doh2

Quote
At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouses a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html

And then you WONDER why he doesn't talk about his feelings with you?

crazy

It seems that you want him to respect your feelings and emotions - your justifications for your behavior, but his?

Oh, no! That is UNACCEPTABLE! There is "no sense" in him feeling that way!


Maybe there shouldn't be any "sense" in you not being interested in SF?

Oh, that's right, we have that argument pre-loaded, don't we?

The guy is drowning and calling out to you for help... you pick up an oar, reach out to him... and use it to dunk him.

In the process, he is pulling you under with him.

You BOTH need to knock the crap off. Stubborn, angry people... come on.





"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Originally Posted by tgrace1328
why can't he move on from anything as simple as not texting him back in two seconds.

I'll translate this for you: "Grace, I'm scared that I'm not important to you when you don't respond to me right away."

Would you yell at your child if he/she was scared? Would you be annoyed? Or would you comfort them, and reassure them? Yes, I know Hill is a grown man and you certainly don't need to be his mommy, but the man is telling you: he's scared. React accordingly.

Try to POJA this with him. Maybe if he urgently needs a response, he could call instead of text. Whatever you can agree to that meets his need for reassurance when he reaches for it.


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Grace, from personal experience I have found that I worry a lot more about an affair when my H is not meeting my needs and doesn't seem to be taking my feelings into consideration. I ask about it even without tangible evidence, because to me, him not meeting my needs or considering my feelings feels like potential evidence. Rather than focusing on this, focus on meeting needs and avoiding LBs and over time he will probably feel more secure.

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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Originally Posted by tgrace1328
Personally, I just don't think a lot of you understand. I've just been accused three times from my husband of having an affair without any evidence, ZERO!!! I'm open access to anything. Then he makes a revolting comment last night after I just fulfilled his biggest need. This hurts and on top of all this I just gave this man our third beautiful, healthy child and God help me for lacking in the sexual department and caring for his children. I'm all about opening up and caring and showing my husband I care about him as well. But I'm NOT just going to lay down here and take it. I'm fighting for my marriage, my self dignity and my children! You think I'm a little offended lately, then your right on the mark!!! I'm willing to move on from his disgusting comment from last night, why can't he move on from anything as simple as not texting him back in two seconds.

NOBODY is excusing HIS behavior, it is being insisted BY YOU that we are.

NOBODY expects you to "lay down and take" abuse. NOBODY.

As for caring for the children, here is what the word is here;

Quote
Children desperately need parents who stay married to each other, and love each other. Their future depends on it. Yet, their parents are very likely to lose their love for each other after they arrive, because they forget why they married.

They didn't marry to raise children -- they married to meet each other's intimate emotional needs. And the presence of children tends to make them think that they don't have time and energy to meet those needs anymore. When that happens, they lose their primary motive to be married -- their love for each other.

A man and woman usually decide to marry because they have formed a very successful romantic relationship -- they are in love with each other and are meeting each other's intimate emotional needs. They want to make that romantic relationship last a lifetime, so they marry. At the time, they are optimistic about keeping their love for each other alive, and they don't expect anything to threaten that love -- least of all, children. But if they were to understand how their love was created, and how it is sustained, they would immediately see why children are such a risk.

Caring for Children Means Caring for Each Other.

Yes, you have an infant. Yes, it's hard on a mother, especially with 2 other young children. No, you aren't going to be all amped up for sex.

NOBODY is stating any of that, that again is YOUR insistence.

I will say this; don't use "being a mother" as yet another excuse for treating your husband like crap. NOT ACCEPTABLE.

It's what has destroyed your marriage, and continuing to do so is just going to continue to destroy your marriage and your husband's love for you.

You aren't "offended" you are defensive. Don't defend a bad marriage. Allow the people here, who have seen hells you cannot imagine (or, as you like to state "we don't think you understand") and have gone on to create loving, romantic marriages.

We are promoting your HAPPINESS.

Knock off the crap, OK?

AMEN!!

tgrace, you have a handful of excellent people posting to you, and many more in the peanut gallery following along. You'd probably get even more help if you employed some of your eponymous grace, as well as humility and a sincere heart, if you really do want to better your marriage. I can think of at least 2 other examples of couples who came here to MB in similar straits as you and your H, fighting tooth and nail to defend their poor behavior towards one another.

I'm pretty sure neither one saved their marriage.


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Tgrace,

I realize that I have been dry and direct. I realize that this is all counter to what you have lived until now.

It's tough.

I just want to say; kudos to you for continuing to come back.

You CAN do this, if you WANT it.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Tgrace,

I realize that I have been dry and direct. I realize that this is all counter to what you have lived until now.

It's tough.

I just want to say; kudos to you for continuing to come back.

You CAN do this, if you WANT it.

Yes, that, too.

tgrace, I think posters are emphatic because they/we want you guys to have a great marriage. And they/we believe it's achievable.

You CAN do this.


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Grace,

My DH and I did POJA the amount of time for me to contact him back. He struggled with trusting me after some inappropriate friendships/borderline EAs and we set rules for our contact. If he calls me at work, I answer or respond within a couple of minutes - unless he knows I'm not at my desk. If he calls me on my cell at work I call him on my next break. Non work times I return his call within 15 minutes, unless he knows I'm not available. He gets my schedule everyday, and I call him if I'm varrying from it - i.e. I grocery shop on Wednesdays, but sometimes change that to Monday if I want to hit a certain stores sales, so I call him and let him know my schedule changed. It has made a huge difference in him trusting me, and he knows that if he contacts me he is my #1 priority.


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grace, you may have already said this, so forgive me: how old is your new baby? You had a C-section, right, which is surgery? You are nursing, so your baby is eating more often probably. How many uninterrupted hours of sleep do you get? Has your incision healed? Is there still soreness? What about your mood? Do you feel overwhelmed, alone, exhausted? Does your body feels different - yet again - after having another person inside you?

I ask because twice I experienced post-partem depression.....and neither time did I have anyone....ANYONE...who supported me beyond "get your selfish head out of your [censored] and be a better mommy and wife." What do you need, right now, to help you even be able to have the emotional and physical energy to work on your M?

I gotta say, if the father of my new baby just accused me, the mother of his baby, of having a "loose vagina" because of an A right after we had just had sex.....he'd be walking funny for a few days.

Throw out that word affair and it's like chum for sharks....but you aren't having an A.....there's no way.

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Don't disrespect your husband to your friends... it's a disgusting thing to do, and if he did that to you, I'm sure you would be quite upset.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Don't disrespect your husband to your friends... it's a disgusting thing to do, and if he did that to you, I'm sure you would be quite upset.

Please be aware of the facts. Your obviously getting info off his thread. My husband asked me not to mention last nights comment to my friend. And I didn't. Did I want to reach out and spill my guts because I was horrified, yes, but I didn't and I wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Tawandabelle
grace, you may have already said this, so forgive me: how old is your new baby? You had a C-section, right, which is surgery? You are nursing, so your baby is eating more often probably. How many uninterrupted hours of sleep do you get? Has your incision healed? Is there still soreness? What about your mood? Do you feel overwhelmed, alone, exhausted? Does your body feels different - yet again - after having another person inside you?

I ask because twice I experienced post-partem depression.....and neither time did I have anyone....ANYONE...who supported me beyond "get your selfish head out of your [censored] and be a better mommy and wife." What do you need, right now, to help you even be able to have the emotional and physical energy to work on your M?

I gotta say, if the father of my new baby just accused me, the mother of his baby, of having a "loose vagina" because of an A right after we had just had sex.....he'd be walking funny for a few days.

Throw out that word affair and it's like chum for sharks....but you aren't having an A.....there's no way.
The baby is just turning 5 months old. I'm sure it's just a matter of a major life style change after having an infant again. It's depressing at times with so much change and that prior my husband and I had a good thing going because our children were slightly independent. We were able to go out and do many fun things together and we were incredibly social. The c-section was definitely a surprise and the recovery was difficult because I just wanted to do everything and return back to normalcy. I know the freedom to go out as a couple will get better as our baby gets a little older and we are able to leave her with grandparents. Thanks for your advice

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My husband asked me not to mention last nights comment to my friend. And I didn't. Did I want to reach out and spill my guts because I was horrified, yes, but I didn't and I wouldn't.

tgrace, nothing was going to change in my marriage until we got some outside accountability. If I were in that situation ever again I would put my partner on notice that I am not going to keep quiet about such things. I am going to get the support I need wherever I need to get it. He is attacking your marriage and you have a responsibility to do what it takes to protect your marriage from attacks. I misunderstood POJA for years while my marriage continued to go down in flames. POJA doesn't mean protecting your H from the natural consequences of his actions.

I don't mean just venting to a friend so she says, there there, and continuing to accept this. I mean after trying this stuff for a short time on your own, if you're willing, finding a man your H respects to confront him about his actions. That's the only thing that works with real bullies.

I hope I'm totally wrong, and it turns out your H isn't a bully. Have you read the Angry Outburts article and tried what it says there?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3401_angry.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3401_angry.html


Me 40, OD 18 and YD 13
Married 15 years, Divorced 10/2010
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