Hi everyone.

I am a 28 year old woman who lives thousands of miles away from the ex-husband (divorced in September 2010) and my sweet little toddler.

The ex is living with his parents temporarily till he finishes school, and my baby is being cared for mostly by his mom when he's gone form the house for study/class.

My question:
If I do decide on going for what I have read is "Plan B" (zero communication or contact with or to the ex-husband), in order to fully "get over" him, HOW is this possible since I am the one who flies out to see her, and has to communicate with his family? I also have been "Skyping" with my toddler, and he's the only one with a computer. I would not know how to go about "Plan B" if that is what I decided to do. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks...

Welcome to MB, ES.

Please tell us what happened in your marriage. How long were you married? Why are you divorced? it sounds as if you were divorced when the child was a young baby. How does she come to be living with your exH, thousands of miles away from you?

Why are you thinking of going to Plan B when you have already been divorced for over a year? Why do you need to cut off all communication with your exH at this stage?

Hi Mary,

Like SugarCane, I am a bit confused as to why you think Plan B is the path for you?

My understanding is that Plan B is part of a "pair" of plans that are used by a betrayed spouse (BS). Plan A is the carrot-and-stick process that includes exposure of an affair to friends, family, co-workers and more while making oneself appear to be the most viable "candidate" for a healthy marriage.

Plan B is culmination of Plan A, if and when the wayward spouse (WS) does not discontinue the affair. It then requires the BS to go "dark" while presenting the WS with a written path back to the marriage, which includes writing a No Contact letter to the other person (OP), and adherence to Dr. Harley's Marriage Builders (MB) principles.

It's often said that Plan B is not for the WS, but to help the BS heal. Especially if the marriage is NOT recovered.

Since your divorce is already a year past, why do you think Plan B would be beneficial? Are you having difficulty post-divorce? Are there things your ex-husband is doing that are causing you distress?

Please post more of your story so that we can better understand your situation and thus offer you help.

Hey, Fred!! How about an update? Did you get the message I sent via the mods?

(sorry for the threadjack)

Here is the story:

We met in the Navy, and our relationship began days after meeting. We moved in together, and lived together for 2 years or so. A lot of things bothered me about him in the beginning (messiness, porn collection, which he later threw away) and there was a lot that I loved about him (he was gentle, easy-going, a jokster, amiable, believed in God, could talk with me about ANYthing...the list goes on and on), so I would be "on-off-again" during those years. Well, I cheated on him a year and a half or-so into the relationship (when we were living together)I could never accept his love for me (and later realized, it was my lack of love for mySELF that drove me down the wrong paths) and was afraid of being rejected or cheated on (like all my previous relationships). I got pregnant (my now ex-husband's and my baby, so you know) but did not want to marry right away because I was pregnant. Our relationship was still a little rocky at times, and I was pregnant and tired a lot (first time pregnancy, and was VERY sick, had to take medication to stop vomiting�even water wouldn�t stay down!) I noticed his relationship with his mother was very close. He told me one time when I was pregnant, that his mom told him that I would avoid telling him what was wrong because I �was being controlling�, that that was my way of controlling the situation. He would talk a lot to his mother when things were rough. Well, we continued to go to church together, grow in our relationship, and I finally felt like getting married was the right thing to do for us, and the right thing to do for our sweet little one. Our child was about 5 months old when we married. It was a beautiful one. A small ceremony, and the day started off rainy, but when the ceremony was over, we all noticed the sun was coming out, and as we all walked out of the church, the sun was out full-force.

Well, I started to yearn for something familiar. We were living in WA state at the time. My husband's family lived in CA, and mine lived in TX. I got out of the Navy to be with my baby, and my husband got out of the Navy, and became a police officer. I asked him if we could go back to TX so I could finish school (all my credits were there, and I was so close to graduating before joining the Navy), he and I decided to move, and he quit his job, and I pulled out my TSP (a savings plan I started while in the Navy--meant for retirement) so we could move.

We moved from WA, two months after marrying, and on the way to TX, stopped by his parents' home in CA and visited. Well, that visit turned into a month and a half or so. It was so very trying, living with his parents--I did not know my role there. I was being given advice, and opinions on our baby, and I felt "outnumbered" there. As weird as it sounds, I felt like my husband was settling in back with his family in a way, and I didn�t have him fully �there� with me and the baby. It felt like pulling teeth to get him to help me out with the baby and be fully engaged and I felt very alone...I told him before we left CA for TX, that I was scared to live with my parents if our stay in CA was indicative of the stay we were to have in TX while I finished school (we only planned on staying at my parent's home as long as it took to get on our feet and into our own place)...he said not to worry. "And besides", I thought to myself, "Where are we going to go? I took out my TSP for this, we can't go back..." So, we headed to TX.
Well, our stay took longer than expected at my parents' home. My husband found a job that did not make as much as he was making in WA, but it was okay. I was going to school, and slowly drifted away from our marriage. I felt like my husband and I lost our "nucleus". Anyone with a good marriage will understand what I am talking about when I say, �our nucleus��that is the only word I feel accurately and justly describes what I felt my husband and I were losing. In my parents' home, I felt like I didn't know what my role was--I felt "caught in the middle" of a lot. My husband later told me he felt alone and "outnumbered" a lot too when we were there. Well, I started to notice lots of changes (and remember, I am making a long story EXTREMELY short, with salient points, mostly), I noticed a porn site or two on the internet history (watched one of the scenes off of the history, and couldn�t watch it all�it literally �cut� me, PHYSically hurt to watch something he was seeing. I had had bf�s in the past watch porn, and it hurt, but for some reason, this porn thing cut me, and I could �feel� it physically deep in my chest every time I saw it) noticed long calls to his family (two or more hours�all to his mom, I found out later after�things were falling apart, and I started to resent him. I started chatting with another man; I texted another. He found the texts. I came home one day, and walked into the room, and he was standing there, this, this, pain, etched all over his face, asking �What�s this?� there was not much to say�it was all right there�I said I was sorry�but, I ended up meeting the man and spending an hour with him�I felt disgusted, a piece of worthless trash, during the time, afterwards too. I tried to stop the pain I was feeling by seeking out something to fulfill my emotional needs, (instead of drawing NEARer to my husband) and what I ended up doing in the process was blasting the cornerstone clean off our structure! I came home, feeling horrible. The next say I told him what happened (I wanted a clean start). We talked to the pastor�I continued to hurt, but didn�t change my HEART towards my husband. And, I wasn�t changing MYSELF! (Remember, I am shortening our story a lot) We tried to get out of my parents� home, and find our own place�the pastor said he had a place for us, and told us the rent amount�it was out of town, but sounded great (anything to get us back into our own little family again�we were both desperate), but that fell through, and he rented out to someone else before telling us�.

Well, things fell apart (taking into account the previously-mentioned pattern)�we talked about divorce, he didn�t really want it�we went to a few counseling sessions, but�I gave up. He ended up giving up too. We separated, Husband asked me if he could please take our baby with him for a while; I said yes. We moved away from TX (me to IL, him to CA) and I INSTANTLY knew I couldn�t do this. For several months, I begged and pleaded to not go through with this. He was in CA, and he said �No�. I started talking with a lawyer, and wanted to rescind the petition for divorce, and get the roles reversed in the custody agreement of our filed divorce papers (which were still pending at the time), so that I could have our baby with me (my heart was breaking for our baby too!). Husband did not have to show up to the final divorce hearing. I had been talking to him during my consultations with the lawyer (I so wanted my husband to change his mind on the whole thing and felt that if I told him my plans, we could work together, and be reunited somehow), and that was much to the chagrin of my lawyer. Well, because I had been telling my husband my plans, he told me �I will do everything in my power to keep things the way they are�. He said our baby (who was a little over a year old at the time) was where she needed to be, was done moving, and asked me, �Don�t you want what is best Mary?� I did. I love our little one! OF course I do!

Well, the date of the final hearing was approaching (next day) and I called my husband, and he told me, �I suppose I should tell you, I�m in Corpus Christi right now. He was coming to the final divorce hearing, he said, to make sure things stayed the way as originally planned. Surprised me. Both of us met the day before the hearing, we even went to Wal-Mart together. We were still a little affectionate to each other�little glances a couple of times, brushes against our hands once or twice�I could feel there was something there�or maybe I wanted to believe it. Well, we spent the night together. He asked me if I had been with anyone while I was away in IL. Yes, I had. And I wanted to be honest (even though it was a fling out of heartache). He stopped, looked hurt. We talked�we were intimate, but it was NOT the same, and did not really go anywhere. I wanted his love, I wanted things to be right. I wanted him to change his mind.

Well, we went to court the next morning. I saw my lawyer, and told him, �I still want to change it to where I petition to have my baby live with me, and rescind my original petition for divorce��then, I talked with my husband, in the other corner or the hallway�he reminded me, he would fight me tooth and nail for �what was best�. I do love our baby. I went back to the lawyer and told him to put everything back to what my husband and I had originally agreed on long, long ago. The lawyer was stunned and asked if I was sure, like, 6+ times. We went up to the judge, done, final, end. That is why my baby is living out-of-state with him still. Our marriage lasted 9 months.

Every time I visit him, I spend as much time with our little Love as I can. He and I go out later on at night sometimes. I have been doing this for about a year and a half now (going out to CA, visiting my little baby and my ex too). We will go out to a movie, the mall, the store, lunch�our communication has steadily gotten better. I�ve cut off all ties to anyone I ever talked to when I was married. Anyone I was ever �interested in� too.

The last visit I had in December 2011 went very well too�and actually, he said it was one of the best. We were a little affectionate too, and he was very supportive and understanding. I�ve been writing letters to him, and it seems his attitude is changing slowly, and he is softening over time, gradually. My heart LONGS to be with my baby and my ex too! But, I was thinking about that Plan B thing, and �getting over� someone�I don�t know, I am very confused and need guidance in my situation.

My ex says his main priority is finishing school to be able to provide for our baby, and if he has a family in the future, and that he is not interested in having any kind of relationship during that time. He doesn�t graduate till 2015, and our baby will be nearly 6 years old then. My heart is crushed now, I don�t know what it will look like then.

By the way, I am living my life�I have school, recreation, friends, church, family, etc. So don�t get the idea I am sitting pining (even though my heart tends that way)�I keep myself busy and am a VERY optimistic and STRONG, tenacious woman!

Thank you for replying, ES.

I am concerned that there might be quite a bit of identifying information in your post. You use a real name in your signature, and your forum name sounds as if it might be a real name, too. I hope you have not revealed your identity, for your own protection.

I'm sorry but despite your post, I still don't understand in what way you think Plan B might help you. Are you trying to insulate yourself from your H's abusive behaviour? What IS that abusive behaviour, if so? As far as I can work out, you are unhappy that you are not back together, and you would like to be together with him. If that is the case, I am not sure how not having anything to do with him will bring you closer. It sounds as if interaction has in fact brought you closer recently.

Dr Harley warns that separation makes it hard for couples to reconcile. You are already divorced and living separate lives, so I suspect that if you cut off all contact, your H will move on without you.

Since Plan B would be so hard to do with your toddler, I really can't see why you are considering it at all. What do you hope to achieve by it that you cannot achieve by being "professional" in your relationship with your exH?

Thank you SugarCane for replying back...

As you can see, I am very, �professional� with my ex-husband, and my communication has gotten increasingly better with him over time. We are friendly and very amicable. This is where my distress comes in: I am in love with him; I want to be his wife again. I cannot be �just friends�. I just cannot.

Here is why I was looking into Plan B: Since my ex-husband has said he is not looking for a relationship while in school (three more years) my heart is so very torn and wanting him--wanting my little family back together. It is excruciating; it has been more than a year and a half, but, every time I leave to see them, my heart is filled, and when I have to leave back to TX, my heart is shredded again. Every time I Skype with my baby and ex husband together, or talk on the phone with him and our baby, I cry and am torn (I keep my composure usually on the phone and computer, and cry immediately after�this happens all the time) "Getting over" someone, from what I understand, when there is a deep tie and intense longing, can only be done through a complete absence of contact (or so I read, �Plan B�)--I only considered it to insulate myself from this pain.

An update: Today I talked to my ex-husband on the phone, told him an idea I had. I actually asked him if he would consider marriage. He said he knows how I feel, because I have told him my feelings toward him, and seems to be patient� I asked him today, �We could be married, and I will finish school here in TX this year as planned, find a job, gain experience for a year, and move to where you both live. What do you think?� He didn�t say anything for a couple of minutes, and I thought he hung up. I said, �Hello?� and he said, �I�m here. I was thinking.� Then he proceeded to tell me that he wants to graduate first and provide for a family. I told him, �Well, nothing would change, except we would be married�
�You can�t say that �nothing� would change�because, with marriage, things change�
�I meant that everything would stay the same for now�our plans with school, except that we would be married�

Well, he ended up saying that he prays for God�s guidance, and that he isn�t looking for a relationship of any kind for a few years, until he can graduate and get a good job to support our child. He said, �My first and number one priority is [our baby]�, and I said �mine is as well��
I love him. I love my baby too. My heart is with them. But, this ripping of my heart, every time I have to come back, is shredding me up! I am afraid it will reduce me to nothing if this has to keep up for a few more years! I cannot even fathom it!
I don�t know what to do. Do I �get over� him? (which is where my idea of �Plan B� comes in) or, what do I do??
I do not know how much more of this I can take�it�s been a long while of these intense emotions�

If you want any chance of getting your now XH back and being back full time in your baby's life--a couple of things need to happen--

1)Stop sleeping around with other men. Learn some boundaries. That also means no emotional affairs either.

2)Move back to where he is living.

Even if he never takes you back the above two things should happen in order for you to be a better person and a better mother. However, if you expect him to take you back you better show him you are serious about changing your behaviors and being a better mother.

MB program can help you with that.

SmilingWoman, thank you for your advice:

I have not slept around, and will continue to be abstinant, both physically and emotionally. I have already said that I have cut off all contact with men I was interested in in the past, and men that I was talking to while married.

And, I do plan on moving where they are--that is obvious (and mentioned in my post also)

So, you are saying Plan B is not an option for me. Because the issue is this increasing emotional pain that I am going through, not me "sleeping around with other men" (since I am abstinant emotionally and physically)

Also, you mentioned MB program can help--can I do this even in my situation (already divorced, and the only one wanting remarriage)?

I'd say Plan A (once you relocate closer to him) is worth a shot.
Plan A without the stick.
The "stick" is to break up an on-going adultery.
You're already divorced.

It's been done before.
A divorced woman (who had an affair) belatedly came to the realization she loved and desired her husband after they divorced.
She ended everything with the OM.
Her ex-H did not want to "try" and rebuild their relationship. He was burned and hurting and very, very wounded.

Here is a link. (be right back, looking for it)

Here is a link to Hopeful Person's original cry for help.

LINK to old thread

Next to come, a link where she updates that they have HAPPILY REMARRIED.

Her last update.

LINK

Thanks Pepperband:

Plan A...hm. I am not even sure what it is exactly, or what my role or responsibilities are, especially since we've been divorced for a while.

I know he has been deeply wounded. I mean, even now, if I were to sit and think about what kind of pain my waywardness put him through, I'd get panicky and start crying and feel the inconsolable remorse (the gritting and gnashing of teeth kind when I think of the pain and of the kind of betrayal waywardness brings).

I was seeing a counselor, and she said (concerning him) "not to put [my] whole soul and being into a hope" (hope of remarriage to my ex') so that I won't be devastated if there is rejection. So, I went on a few dates to try and "distance" myself, to try and take her advice. But, you know what? That was crappy advice that Dr. gave me--because I cannot stop what my heart is feeling.

Also, good things never come without risk. My whole defense mechanism in my past (to insulate from hurt and rejection) was having a "back-up plan". And look where that got me. No--if I have a dream, I want to go for it with all of my heart, and put all my eggs in one basket for it, and if I'm rejected, then God can heal me; but I at least want to try with all I have.

The only thing is...I have NO idea where to start or even HOW to do that. Plan B was something like a desperate last resort to "get over" him. But, if Plan B is not something that has to be done, then what is "Plan A"?

There is a valley of dry bones I am looking at, and I am hoping that my ex huband's and my prayers for guidance will bring miracles for us, and for our baby.

Oh, thanks Pepperband for your last post. Patience and time...I will be patient. And trusting to the One who loves me more than any man could, and loves my baby and ex too.

Plan A is meeting your exH's emotional needs with no expectations of reciprocity for a long long time.

He may only allow you to meet certain non intimate emotional needs (ENs) at first.
Work slowly and carefully.
No love busters (LBs).

ENs and LBs are in the Basic Concepts area of this site.

If you are impatient and expectant of immediate reward, you will fail.

I hope this helps.

Thank you Pepperband.

I mentioned that I write him letters. I've mentioned my desires--he knows them. He says I can write him, and he says he reads them. I don't want to be pushy. I don't know what's "too pushy" or how to find out.

Thank you for taking time out of your day to help me out.

ES,
I read your story this am but couldn't respond at the time, I have hope for you. Pep has said some of what I was going to say.
Plan A.
I tried Plan A when my wife was cheating. I was not able to have the patience mentioned above, and, among other factors, was not able to save my marriage. HOWEVER, I learned so much about myself and my capabilities as a human being/parent/friend/etc. during my plan A. So, I will say that you really can't lose if you try to eliminate Lovebusters from your life and start developing clear boundaries for yourself (that was my next step -- someone here told me to read the book "Boundaries" -- but don't do that until you have a handle on Dr. Harley's approach).

I also wanted to mention that even though my exWW was so mean and hurtful and wayward and just about destroyed me, I would definitely have entertained the idea of reconciliation with the right conditions met on her part. They were almost unrealistic, and they grow more so everyday since I am moving in such a different direction with MB (not to mention a wonderful relationship building, but that's essentially beside my point). If she had been truly repentant AND signed on with MB, AND proven herself to have developed some boundaries (including a willingness to employ what we call Extraordinary Precautions), then we may have had a chance.

As much as my life is sooooo much better now, it would be silly for me to say that being in love with the mother of my children wouldn't be better; deep down your ex probably recognizes this. If not, once you've come to a certain point, you could make that case to him. Right now you have no leverage because you have no credibility. You gain that by daily daily daily strengthening yourself with principles here (no LB's not even in the privacy of your own home, etc)

You seem to be willing to implement a PLAN to get your husband back. That plan can start here (with plan A, etc.) and many here can help guide you.

~optimism

Thank you for your help.

I have another question: My last visit to see my baby and ex-H went wonderfully. (eidt to include: The last visit was Christmas, 2011). We were affectionate, and when he drove me back to the hotel I was staying at, he put his hand on my leg, and looked at me, and said, "...look, I know this is hard on you..." (talking about the whole situation we are in) He showed genuine care. On the way to the airport, his dad and him drove me back, and his dad was being aggressive in tone to me, because of a misunderstanding he had (my ex-H later told me he cleared it up with his dad later), but on the ride, my ex-H reached back to hold my hand. He held it till we got to the airport, and I burst into tears telling him, "..you know I really do LOVE you!" And he said, "Yes, I know you do, I know you do..."

He shows care, I wish we were married. How different I am. I think I would make him so happy.

Okay, my question:
How much is "too much" prompting on my part. It is a weird situation going on...

Have a plan. Read as much as you can about Falling in Love and Staying in Love. Learn what you can about eliminating love busters from you life and then do it. Learn as much as you can about meeting another's emotional needs and then do it where possible (you may have to move as has been suggested). Make yourself irresitable to him. Right now you're NOT. Figure out what areas you lack in and fix them. Every time you present yourself to him, he will see someone improved from the last.

Here's the really good news: if you adopt the philosophy of Marriage Builders, as many of the concepts you can as a SINGLE mother, you will reap benefits for yourself AND your baby. Even if you don't win your ex back, you are WAY better off for it all and so is your child. So do it all first for you, okay?

opt