My roller coaster ride is getting more difficult by the day. Please see my story.

My Original Thread

I wonder if she is clear headed and knows exactly what she wants to do. That she in fact doesn’t love me anymore. Even though she has given me the ILYBINILWY line. When anybody brings up the OM, she says that it wouldn't matter because her romantic feelings for me are gone. I am so down right now.

If there are any WSs or FWSs out there that can give me some insight, I would very much appreciate it.

From the words of the many wise veterans on here...

Breathe.

There will be people along who will help you and walk you through this. Have patience and know that you are in the best hands possible.

If you are a praying person, look to G-d for support when you are down. I can promise you, he is there to comfort and walk you through this ride.

You are RIGHT it is a roller coaster ride. One you didn't sign on for, but nonetheless are part of. It's also a marathon so fill your heart up with lots of G-d gifts and COMPLETELY trust he will guide you through this.

SG

Dear TMTS...

I am a formerly wayward wife. My marriage did not survive my fog, and a few people around here consider me an enemy. But because you specifically asked for help from FWS's, I will comment on your thread.

I have not read all of your story but I read most of the thread you linked here on this post. My impression is this:

My story was similar to yours in many ways. We were married too young and I at times felt like I should have been able to grow up more before marriage and kids. Also, I had been asking for attention and SF from my husband and he was not really listening to me. This went on for many many years. Does that sound familiar? It seemed a bit familiar when reading your thread.

So what I can say to you is this: if my husband had done the things you are doing, it would have worked on me. It may have taken some time, but the sincere love message behind the plan A is what would have melted my heart and lifted my fog. The logic would have prevailed over me and the fog would have seemed illogical in the face of it. So my advice is to keep trying, keep focusing on how much you love her, try not to visit the past but instead, visit the NOW. Love her in your thoughts right NOW and do not let it go.

Also PRAY with all of your heart, that her heart will hear your love. Try to find faith that this will work.

I hate to give you any false hope, because as you know, there are no guarantees and you should not have any expectations. Also, none of us can speak for your WW or for her heart. But...again...all I can say is that if my husband had poured out the kind of love I am seeing coming from you, it would have worked. I think it may have taken at least a year of solid effort though, so please be very patient with yourself. Give yourself much pats on the back though, for not giving up and for doing your best to get your marriage back on track.

Good luck. I'm really sorry for your pain.

Swing Dancer

Oh man, I hate to hear this stuff right now, b/c I just got done putting my poor hubby through it. It makes me sick to think of it, ya know. My link is in my sig line, please read and see that even 1 week ago, I thought I "got it." Unfortunately for me, I didn't. He was really going to leave this time, I think, b/c when he came home from work that night, he was still just as angry and "DONE" with it! I tried to talk to him b/c I was so scared, but he was having none of it. He told me it was too much, that he'd never be able to get over it if I couldn't fulfill his ENs, especially after what I had done. I was too concerned with being right- and it almost cost me my marriage.

I have said ALL of these things- "ILYBNILWY," and "doesn't matter about the A, I have lost the romantic feelings for you" or "I think I just want to be single again" etc. It's how I felt at the time, and it's part of being foggy. It's guilt, or feeling unworthy of BS's love, or thinking "if I truly loved this person, I wouldn't have cheated" or still being attracted to that A drug, or whatever. Sometimes I still don't understand what I was thinking...I HATED being single, even when I was young and, ahem, skinnier <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You cannot listen to it. If she is posting here, or even if you've just had small glimmers of hope along the way so far, it CAN work. Please read my post from just a week ago, and then you have to read my hubby's post (want2stay) later and see just what a jacka$$ I was. You will realize it can happen..where there is love, there is hope.

You sound so caring and dedicated to your M, and I hope you get through this...

Hang in there and God bless!!

TMTS:

Yes, your WW is probably in the FOG.

And Rewriting Marital History.

And banging another guy.

Nothing she says or does makes sense does it?

SOOOO, ask yourself, do I ACT on what she SAYS, or what she DOES?

Do not act on what she SAYS.

Because all of that noise is to distract you from your goal.

And all those words hurt.

One day, you will get an apology for them. It might be two months, two years or ten.

But steel yourself for what she DOES.

Does she MOVE OUT?

Does she Seperate finances?

Does she give you custody of the kids?

Does she pay off her debts?

Does she continue to cake-eat cause she can?

Actions.

Not words.

Because the words paralyze you and your efforts to fight this, she uses them.

So take that away.

Actions.

LG

Thanks for your support. I try very hard not to listen to what see says, but she has such a determined tone in her voice. My Father truly believes that I need to hang in there because is a FWS and tells me that one day the fog will lift, and it will hit her like a hammer. I just need to be ready to catch her.

A BS here, but I wanted to tell you that my FWH said the exact same thing when he decided to leave.

He's home now. Totally bent on doing everything to restore our love and heal our marriage.

You are hearing babble. Put on some armour and ignore it.

She's checking out an apartment right now and it's killing me! I feel like she doing it more to express her ability to go on her own, who cares if anybody gets hurt on the way. She's got in her mind that everything will be better once she's gone. I dread that day and pray it doesn't happen. That being said today was a bad day for hope... it feels so inevitable now and I wonder if the chance to save my M was lost a long time ago.

I'm so sorry to hear this sad news. I am all too familiar with the "I don't need anyone" and "I am woman, hear me roar" crap, that I could write a book about it.

On the bright side (assuming there always IS one) maybe this will be the wake-up call she needs..? It is sooo hard to be a single mother. Maybe she'll finally realize how much you mean to her. Maybe your girls will protest enough so that it cuts through the stubbornness and selfishness..?
There are many posts here to that effect.

My thoughts and prayers are with you...hang in there.

My oldest DD is really riding her hard. She actually gave me a kiss tonight that was somewhat passionate, almost like she was checking. It's just one more thing for her to think about. I also left a letter expressing my desire for her and my willingness to work on our issues.
My Father was a WS and talked to her tonight. I talked to him afterwards and he confirmed that she was completely in the fog. Everything in her mind will work out, the kids will be fine with her, she'll fall more deeply in love with OM and I'll move on... everybody happy. My F could tell me at what exact point she is at, and is sure that the self brainwashing has gone too far for her to turn back. She will need to leave to see reality slap her hard.

TMTS,

Breathe...

Focus...

Follow the plan...
No matter what she does, follow the plan...

Have you given any thought to what you might say in a Plan B letter yet? I'm not saying to jump into Plan B, only to be thinking about it so that you don't fall apart in the process if it comes to that.

Who would you use for an intermediary if you had to have a way to pass the kids back and forth without you actually seeing her? Assuming it gets to the point of her refusing to have NC and she moves out, what would you require to let her back into your life? NC should be part of it, but what else would you need to see from her in order for you to know she was serious?

Be thinking about these things while using the time to Plan A her socks off. Avoid all discussions of divorce or separation. Give her no help in moving out. (You don't like it and so don't have to participate in the process of tearing apart the family) Don't surrender the kids to her on faith that she will take better care of them than you will. You make the adjustments now so that you are the primary care giver. If it comes to a LSA, try to get written into it that the kids are to have no contact with OM or any OM as long as the marriage is still in force. (You can drag a divorce out for a long time if need be.)

Devise a plan...execute the plan...stay with the plan...

What she does, says or thinks has no bearing on the plan.

No relationship talks from now till she moves out or you get a commitment from her to work things out. Don't try to solve any problems for her, with her or because of her. Make her wish she can stay with you forever every time you are together.

Study Orchid's Reverse Babble. Learn to turn the junk around.

She says, "I'm sick of living like this!"

You say, "Me too! What would you like for dinner?"

She says, "I'm not happy."

You say, "Me too. I think I'm gonna go get a movie at Blockbuster. Is there anything you want to see?"

She says, "I can't wait for all of this to be over."

You say,____________ (Want to try to guess?)

You're still worrying about whether or not you are getting through to her. It means you are constantly testing the waters to find out what she is doing or thinking in order to figure out if what you are doing is working. It means you are trying to control something that is out of your control. You can only control you. Make changes to you, for you, to make you a better you. Fix you...be more attractive than OM to her. You can't change her, only you. Change you so she wants to change to be with you.

There is no try. Only do or do not...


[/slap session] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mark

Hi Mark, I'm actually doing the plan A quite well now. It's more like I'm checking off a to do list that never ends, just keep pumping it away. Relationship talks have stopped even if she starts it; I change the subject as soon as I can. You're right I am worried about if I'm getting through to her, the difference from last week to this week is that I'm getting allot better at not showing her. I stay calm cool and collected, discuss the day, ask her how supper was. Nice and light. Now my F thing was her idea, but I did have hopes it would make a difference. (Another round of slap here...) Even got in two nice kisses and two nice hugs, concentrating on making her feel that I was giving them with all the love I could.
I am much more in control in front of her (I am a mess inside, but that's why I come here).
Yes I've been getting plan B ready, I've got two intermediaries, and as far as the kids go, the only thing that I'll need practice on is coordinating the right cloth, because other than that I do the rest now anyway.. Cooking (I love cooking), cleaning, laundry, garbage, homework. I probably can do a better job than she can.

I've been poking around for Plan B letters, and found a couple, but if you of a few that are worth checking out I would appreciate it. I am getting ready for a dark plan B, which will be a shock, because my plan A has been made to let her think that thinks between us will be ok... we'll be friends. She'll loose it when this gets given to her.

TMTS post your plan B letter here for the veterans to look at before you give to her (hopefully it won't come to that), but in the case it will have it ready.

(((prayers)))

Any tricks on avoiding separation talk when it's the only thing the WWs mind? When I do respond it's very much with Plan A in mind, but today she wants to talk to a lawyer because she's scared that if she leaves she will loose custody rights.

Tonight she's giving me a whole new line of babble...
"I haven’t felt you giving me the attention or affection I needed for many years" I thanked her for telling me and proceeded to tell her how this may be the best thing to happen to me because am now dealing with the past hurt of my parents separation. It's about fixing me!!! I'm actually smiling right now and feel empowered because for the first time in years I am actually thinking about ME!!! This is the part the will hit her hard. I may not have met her EN for affection, conversation and admiration but sure was there for financial, family, sexual, domestic, companionship, honesty and openness and to an extent physical attractiveness (But I've lost 35lbs and counting...time to sexy up).
My emotional growth was stunted at 14, and I now have the insight to deal with it and grow up.
I had a couple of calls today, one from my Father and another from far away cousins. These are poeple I love in which I have lost connection with through the years, and I now get a chance to get that back.

Mark1952,

Your RB is getting good. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Just wanted to let you know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

good points...I was leaerning more about this fog and see it is more about action not words. Thank God for this board!

In getting ready for Plan B I ran into a snag....
My concern is that if she is successful in finding an apartment and moving in early Jan, it will mean that I had only been doing Plan A for about 6 weeks. Is that long enough to make a difference? On the other hand I'm thinking that implementing Plan B on the day she will have the biggest impact.
The other thing I am trying to find out is about the OM. The sense I'm getting is that he has already moved on but she wont say so because it takes away many of her justifications for leaving. My Plan B intermediary is saying that she has not been able to get a hold of him for over 2 weeks now, and wondering why. Now if I can find out for sure if this guy has skip out, does it make more sense to stay with Plan A, or Plan B for impact?

Foster this assumption as much as possible and do everything you can to make it be true. BIG weapon here, TMTS.

Steve or Jennifer would be the best source for an answer for this, but IMO, I would Plan A longer than 6 weeks, even if she moves out. See Skinsgal's thread for how this can be achieved.

Remember that the biggest reason for Plan B is to salvage any love you have left for her and really isn't about pressuring her to return. That is why Plan B can only help if Plan A has been stellar. You have to make her enjoy spending time with you before you cut her off from spending time with you. It is the first part that has the effect, not the second. She has to like being with you enough to miss you when your gone.

The best time to go to Plan B, IMO, is just before you run out of gas. Now keep in mind that I am not a Plan B expert because I never went to Plan B. NC began and was sustained during Plan A because of an implied threat of Plan B and D. My stated boundary of give up OM or get out. (Can you say DJ and AO all in one?)

Whatever the case, it somehow got through the fog and NC began for real within a couple of days.

Here's a link to how my first 3 or four months went. Little Victories

Mark

She talked to a lawyer today and knows that she can't be cut off. But as much as the fog is still there, I think that the apartment search is starting to get to her. Our house is nowhere near luxurious but compared to some of the places she's seen, it looks like a mansion. She has always had someone to take care of her so the reality of life on her own will be a huge challenge.
I started reading skingal's posts, and I see where Plan A can keep going for a while. The references to the WS being an alien really helps too, I think of it as trying to save her from the Borg (That's for the Star trek fans). For those who are not familiar the Borg is a race that assimilates other races into their half robot half humanoid race.
I'm having a tough time at work but my SIL and F have been great support during the day, and I get a chance to let some of the pain out.
Plan A is working much better since your suggestion to call Jennifer a call. We actually had fun watching don't forget the lyrics, as I was stroking her hair and rubbed her leg.
I am concerned that she is starting to think that I doing this as her "friend". But I will not let that stop moving forward with the plan.