Look, let's consider what characteristics are typical 'initial attractants' in each gender to members of the opposite sex:

Men are attracted initially to a woman overwhelmingly VIA LARGELY VISUAL INPUTS. They see/meet a woman who is (seemingly or real) dressed alluringly, has nice hair, nice makeup, a pretty face, a great smile, a sexy figure, etc., and boom...she is someone they are drawn to and incentivized to engage with banter, conversation, flirtation, etc. It is no secret that a woman who naturally has feminine sex appeal is likely to get extra male attention. Don�t believe me? How often does the male dentist have a relationship (legit or affair) with the shapely gal at the gym rather than the frumpy or homely assistant?

Yeah, but you know what? SHE didn't have our 'real' H either. Our 'real' H came back later, after the A. I take a lot of solace in that.

And I wish I could remember who wrote on another thread about that - I apologize for not being able to credit the poster! Anyone remember? (I knew I should have copied and saved that poem! )Words to the effect of the OW wanting the H, the one who was a great father, great H. But she never had him because he became someone else when the A began...wish I could remember...it's hell getting older...

...he would lay in bed all day long, and I think it was to try to get me to get angry with him....

Soul-crushing depression falls on waywards, too. In fact, it's one of the things that can begin to drive the wedge between WS and AP when you enter Plan B.

I think my WW is too prideful and stubborn for my Plan B to have this type of affect on her. She has told me that there is nothing I can do to steal her happiness.

I will say that I found and interesting quote the other day while studying scripture:

One will never find in sin what they go into sin to find.

I just thought that was so relevant to my situation as well as many others here.

Women are attracted initially to a man overwhelmingly VIA DISPLAYS OF SOCIAL PROWESS & POWER. They see/meet a man who displays (seemingly or real) charm, charisma, authority, confidence, leadership, etc., and boom�he becomes as a person of interest beyond the ordinary whose attention she is more likely to indulge. It is no secret that a man with some alpha-male qualifications will find women willing to talk with him. Don�t believe me? How often does the female office secretary have a relationship (legit or affair) with the HEAD BOSS rather than the lowly janitor?

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

I posted this at the end of a long thread, but I really wanted it to be more visible. So, I'm beginning a new thread with it:

I think I should have included an address to mw77, as my reply was in response to her post justifying adultery.

I don't always understand why and how it is so easy to sweep aside the wisdom provided to us in the form of God's commandments. It's really pretty easy, love God with all your heart, etc., and love your neighbor as yourself. But, he knew we would sin and we continue to, as evidenced by the condition of this world he gave us. I am no exception.

Let's think about our neighbor for a minute. Do we know if he or she is good or evil? Do we know what his or her strengths or weaknesses are? Do we know where they've been wounded? Neglected? Abused? Do we know how well they've been loved? Do we know what went into creating them to be who they've become? Do we know how they're being treated presently? Really?

I'm pretty sure that God's commandments were given to us to keep us from making bad mistakes in our ignorance. The commandment not to commit adultery is one of the most misunderstood, most abused that comes to mind. It's so bad that most states don't care about it anymore, because it clogs the courts. So, they opt to simply look out for the welfare of the children as the main goal in divorce.

My own experience with all sorts of people in all sorts of roles is that PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT ADULTERY. They do it, they excuse it, they use it like an addiction, they ignore it, they justify it. Mainly, from what I've seen, they use it to PUNISH.

Well, 'Vengeance is mine, says the Lord. I will repay.' (condensed). So, if you are a terrible marriage partner or if you have one, figure out how to solve or exit your situation morally. Otherwise you're putting yourself above God and you're scrambling and corrupting the world around you.

God isn't against divorce, he did it himself. He divorced his people Israel. Divorce isn't a sin, but adultery is and always will be.

You know what adultery does to the betrayed (however evil you might believe them to be)? It robs them of the opportunity to learn and grow in a safe, non-abusive environment. It pays evil for evil. If married people take the time to learn why their marriage isn't working, whether they plan on staying together or not, the person doing the most hurting has the opportunity to be confronted with the threat of divorce, before they become abused by their mate with their replacement. I always picture someone beating the crap out of another with their lover. They have a safe environment to examine themselves and an opportunity to change. I don't think anyone grows up desiring to be "the evil one" (serial murderers and the like being the obvious exception). The whole idea behind counseling is to reveal feelings of a desire to divorce, so that the other person can see the nature of their "fruit" in life and can change their hearts.

What good does it do to just dispose of people? Because, the attitude, from what I've seen, of the people who do this sounds something like this, "they've reaped what they've sown", "they get what they deserve", "someone else will have to love them", "they're not my problem anymore". Speaking from experience, being sent the message that I'm somebody's discards, somebody's refuse, somebody's trash didn't do me any good at all. I didn't marry to be thrown away. I married to love and be loved. And love sometimes means being corrected, being revealed, being taught lessons. I am abused when I am not rebuked. And I abuse when I don't rebuke. Marriage is supposed to be a safe environment within which we become better people and manifest the love of God. I didn't offer my heart to another person to eventually be judged and condemned and none of us do. That's what adultery is... judgment and condemnation.

I know I did things wrong in my own marriage. In those things I was ignorant. Who of us knows how to 'do' marriage right from the beginning? Who of us has just the right counselors and support networks of family and friends to give us just the right advice just when we need it? If a problem persisted in my own marriage, it was because either I wasn't told there was a problem, or I didn't understand. I rely on my partner to work with me until I do understand.

As empathetic and as compassionate as I may be, it is impossible for me to know exactly what another person is feeling. I am completely dependent on their ability and willingness to tell me in a way that's meaningful to me, to teach me, to use correct metaphors, whatever. Screaming, yelling, passive-aggressiveness and violence are not effective forms of communication. Adultery is passive-aggressive. It is the ultimate in passive-aggressive where marriage is concerned.

mw77, it sounds like your mate was married to a deeply wounded person who probably only learned how to cope with her emotions using passive-aggression. But, she has value and is valuable to God. I wonder how she would have responded if he had said to her, "honey, I just don't understand what I've done wrong by your silence. I want us to be happy. I need more information to know how to love you. Can you try expressing what made you angry? Then I will know not to do that again and I'll feel a lot better knowing how happy I can make you (not to mean that he was at fault, but humility opens doors to knowledge)." Or, "you know physical affection in the form of sex or lovemaking is normal and healthy and a necessary part of a happy marriage. I don't know if I can stay married to you, because I am deeply lonely and frustrated. God made us to be together in that beautiful way and I would like to see if we can safely remove the obstacles that may exist so that we can have a safe and deeply fulfilling marriage." Or, "honey, your words hurt me deeply. They aren't true. But, it sounds like something hurt you or you wouldn't be lashing out like that. Will you please try to help me understand? I want you to be happy and if I'm missing the mark I truly want to know and to correct myself." Or, "let's get help to learn how to make each other really happy, because I love you and I want you to have the best and I surely would love it too."

If anyone is ridiculed after that, they can leave in good conscience. Not for another woman or man, but by themselves. The reason they ended up there in the first place is half their fault. There's something wrong with them. To begin another relationship before learning those things just isn't wise.

So wm77, let me ask you this. If you had been his ex-wife and you lived terrified, behind a curtain of defensiveness, shame, whatever, wouldn't you want God to reach deeply into you to heal you and bring you the love you need? Or, would you want someone to waste 30 years of your life then beat you up with their lover? Wouldn't it be far more compassionate to leave after, say, year 3? Year 7? Year 14? Leaving you something of your life? Even if only to jar your senses and wake you up? Then, if a lover isn't in the picture, imagine the possibilities for healing and for love where little or none existed before. EVEN IF THEY DON'T STAY TOGETHER.

In my heart and in my mind, it just isn't very productive to beat the crap out of anyone with your lover. THAT IS THE EXPERIENCE OF ADULTERY. That is how it feels to be replaced without being brought to understanding first. It makes you feel like defective trash. Period. It is completely unproductive PUNISHMENT.

There's a big difference between rebuke, discipline and punishment. Adultery=Punishment=Vengeance.

OR, it was moments of clarity in which he knew the gravity of what he was stooping to.

Soul-crushing depression falls on waywards, too. In fact, it's one of the things that can begin to drive the wedge between WS and AP when you enter Plan B.

Taking that first step that "crosses the line" .....

HOW does the wayward say...

"It just happened."
"It was not planned."

??????

I hope this thread helps to explain "how" that first step can seem innocent .... until it isn't.