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Originally Posted by mymissy
My lawyer has advised me to get copies of current financial information, I cannot access these without his knowing, do I simply wait or point blank state I spoke to an attorney and I would like copies of xyz. I am pretty sure that will be a LB right now.

I'm going to be busy this AM. So, this will be a quickie.

If it turns out you need to ask WH for the passwords and otherwise get financial information, do so with a voice recorder in your pocket. Never reveal you are using a voice recorder.

Ask outright.


"WH, I want to look at our financial situation today. Please give me the passwords so I can go look at our money and better acquaint myself with our situation."

If WH tries to stonewall you in any way shape or form, do NOT argue. Simply repeat your request.

Something like:


"I'd feel a lot better if I took a look at our financial data myself. Please give me the passwords right now."

If he denies access, call your attorney. Ask for a "lawyer letter" to be sent to WH.

You've then got it on tape (if you ever need it) that your WH denies you access to your money.

They sell recorders at Radio Shack.
Ask for a pocket sized recorder.

Radio Shack carries other cool spy stuff too.
Nanny cam?




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One thing.

As you feel your ability to tolerate plan A decreasing, it is vitally important you do not lose control of yourself.

KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT if you feel you want to tear WH a new one.

Gotta go now.

Stay frosty !!!!

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My WS has started hiding some financial information, things that used to easily accessible in plain site are now put in other places. This concerns me.


That is a redflag and you should go about collecting as much info as possible without tipping your hand.
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The next concern is that the lies and deceptions continue and continue to get worse. I am trying to just go with the flow for right now and not let it be a blow every time.


The lies and deception will CONTINUE as long as he is entangled with the OW. So expect there to be a lot of smoke blown your way. You will need to sift thru what is smoke and what is real.

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Can families of the BS ever accept the WS again and if there is recovery what kind of strain does this create.


Even before we get that far lets just focus on can a BS accept a WS we'll worry about the families later. They dont have to live with him you do. FWIW most FAMILIES look out for the welfare of their own, if you are happy then.....

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And lastly, will I know when I have reached the point of enough? I no longer know who this person is and I am not sure I want to know this version of him.


You will know when you have had enough.
The mere fact that you are asking says to me that you are still in this.

While a spouse is waywarad, its like their thinking capacity has been locked up in a vault and they can access it to save their own lives. Most of them belive that the fantasy of an A can be converted and sustained to a reality of a M. For a majority of the cases this is simply not true and in all likehood his involvement with OW will eventually end. The only thing that differs is When and how much destruction does the WS leave behind in their path.

I am glad you got some rest and have more energy today. hurray


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Don't forget: It's tax season. Wanting to see your account information "for tax purposes" should not raise any warning flags.

All of the other information (re: voice recorders) is good. Do it.


Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words.
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Originally Posted by mymissy
My lawyer has advised me to get copies of current financial information, I cannot access these without his knowing, do I simply wait or point blank state I spoke to an attorney and I would like copies of xyz. I am pretty sure that will be a LB right now.

Is the financial info in both your names? Get the info from your financial institutions. Or get it online. If the info is in his name only, start digging through old records. Come up with any paper you can find. This will at least get your attorney started.


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Well, it seems this entire drama continues to move at a pace I would have never thought possible. I have gotten most of the copies of the stuff I need, but have also discovered the start of dissolution paperwork.
It does not seem there will be a plan A or B, but that we will be heading directly for plan D.
I feel so helpless in this entire situation. I feel as though no one (WS) has asked what I want. I got put on this ride and he has all the control.
Any help healing at this point would be a blessing.....


Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10

"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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It does not seem there will be a plan A or B, but that we will be heading directly for plan D.
I feel so helpless in this entire situation. I feel as though no one (WS) has asked what I want. I got put on this ride and he has all the control.
Any help healing at this point would be a blessing.....


Sorry you find your self at this point.
Just writing to offer support and understanding of your frustration and helplessness. ((((mymissy))))


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Originally Posted by mymissy
discovered the start of dissolution paperwork.

They haven't been filed yet...maybe they will be, maybe they won't. Either way, you continue to take steps to protect and improve yourself. Have you spoken with OWH lately? I would not mention the paperwork to him, but do you know if they are headed to D? Other than OWH, does OW's family know of the A?


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally Posted by mymissy
t. I got put on this ride and he has all the control.

{{{{Missy}}}}},

A wise woman on here once told me this.....

"Not, you and you alone are in control of your life. You need to take the driver's seat back...."

my mantra after that became "I am in the drivers seat.....if you don't like my driving then get out of the car...."

I know it doesn't feel like you are BUT once you realize you are you CAN accomplish the impossible......

You have some great support here..... I did too....listen closely to what they tell you

not2fun

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FAQs About Ohio Divorce
(provided by Dennis P. Levin, Attorney at Law)

1.How may a marriage be terminated or ended in Ohio?
In Ohio, the only way a marriage can be terminated is through court actions of divorce, dissolution, annulment, the death of one of the parties or a presumption of death (a common law presumption of death requires an unexplained continuous absence from the home for a full seven years).

2.What is the difference between "divorce," "dissolution," and "annulment"?
A "divorce" is the legal separation and termination of the marital relationship by the judgment of a court which may be granted only upon a finding by the court that certain "grounds" for divorce exist. A divorce puts an end to the marital relationship.

A "dissolution" of marriage is a form of no fault termination of the marriage relationship where both parties have agreed upon all of the terms of the termination (such as division of marital property, spousal support, parental rights and responsibilities, child support, etc.) and are requesting that the court terminate the marriage and approve the agreement between the parties. The basic advantages of a dissolution are that it is not adversarial in nature (i.e. the parties have already agreed upon every aspect of the termination); there is no plaintiff or defendant; it is not a "divorce"; and the court does not have to make any of the decisions it would have to make in a contested divorce. Additionally, it is usually concluded faster than a divorce action.

An "annulment" is a decree from a court determining that the marriage is legally invalid because of some defect that existed at the time the marriage was entered into. An annulment decree declares that a marital status never existed, unlike a divorce decree that terminates a marriage. The grounds for an annulment include: an underage marriage; bigamy (i.e. one of the parties has another living spouse); mental incompetence of one of the parties; fraud; duress and nonconsummation of the marriage (which may include impotency).

3.What is necessary in order to obtain a divorce in Ohio?
In Ohio, in order to grant a divorce, the trial court must find:

that the plaintiff (the person filing the divorce complaint) has been a resident of the State of Ohio for at least 6 months immediately prior to the filing of the complaint and a resident of the county in which the divorce has been filed for at least 90 days or that the plaintiff for at least 6 months immediately prior to the filing of the complaint and that the defendant spouse has been a resident of the county in which the divorce has been filed for at least 90 days; and that "grounds" (legal reasons) for divorce exist for the granting of the divorce.

4.What are "grounds" or legal reasons for divorce in Ohio?
Ohio law permits the granting of a divorce only upon a finding by the court that there are statutory grounds to terminate the marriage. There must be testimony by the plaintiff and a corroborating witness (or an admission by the other spouse) as to these specific grounds.

Ohio has both "no-fault" and "fault" grounds for divorce. The "no-fault" grounds include "incompatibility" and "living separate and apart without cohabitation for one year."

There are nine "fault " grounds in Ohio. These "fault" grounds include:

1.another spouse living at the time of marriage (bigamy);
2.willful absence of a party from the marital home for one year;
3.adultery;
4.extreme cruelty (defined as "acts conduct calculated to destroy the peace of mind and happiness of one of the parties to the marriage");
5.fraudulent contract (i.e. a party was induced to enter the marriage as a result of a fraudulent representation that materially affects the essential elements of the marriage;
6.gross neglect of duty (i.e. acts that constitute an omission to perform a legal duty, such as a failure to support the family);
7.habitual drunkenness;
8.imprisonment of the adverse party in a state or federal institution at the time of the filing of the complaint; and
9.an out-of-state divorce.

5.How is a divorce case started in Ohio?
A divorce case is commenced by the filing of a "complaint." The spouse who files the complaint is called the "plaintiff." The other spouse is called the "defendant." The complaint must allege that the plaintiff has resided in the State of Ohio for the statutorily required period of time (6 months) immediately prior to the filing of the complaint; must indicate the date and place of marriage along with the name and birth dates of any minor children; there must be an allegation of at least one of the statutory grounds for divorce, and; it must contain a demand for the relief being requested from the court.

"Service" of the complaint must be made on the defendant in order to bring him or her within the jurisdiction of the court. There are several methods of service available, even if the defendant spouse lives in a state other than Ohio.

The defendant spouse should then file an "answer" to the complaint, admitting or denying the allegations in the complaint. If the defendant denies the allegations he/she may also raise any defenses he/she has. Additionally, the defendant spouse may also file a "counterclaim" asserting any claim he/she has against the plaintiff spouse for divorce or for a "legal separation."

If the defendant spouse files a counterclaim, the plaintiff must file a "reply," either admitting or denying the allegations contained in the counterclaim and raising any defenses that the plaintiff may have.

6.What if the defendant spouse cannot be located or evades service of the complaint?
Where the current residence of the defendant is unknown, "constructive" service may be had on him/her by publication. Service by publication permits the court to commence the case and rule on the status of the marriage and the marital property located within the state. Unless the defendant has been personally served or has voluntarily entered an appearance in the case, however, the court cannot rule on property outside the state and cannot make a ruling on spousal support

7.What is the defendant is served with the complaint but does not file an answer or otherwise make an appearance in the case?
The court rules in Ohio preclude the granting of a default judgment in a divorce case. Instead, where the defendant has been personally served but has failed to file an answer or otherwise appear, the plaintiff must merely present sufficient evidence to establish a prima facie case to allow the court to grant the divorce and rule on the division of property, parental rights and responsibilities regarding the children and any support orders.

8.What happens after the filing of the complaint and answer/counterclaim?
During the pendency of the divorce case, either party can request temporary orders for child support, spousal support (alimony), parental rights and responsibilities (commonly referred to as temporary custody or visitation rights), and any other temporary order that may be called for in a particular case such as a temporary restraining order restraining one or both spouses from removing the children from the jurisdiction of the court or restraining one or both spouses from harassing, threatening or physically abusing the other.

Additionally, during this time the parties can request that the court order psychological or psychiatric evaluations of the parties and/or the children to aid the court in making determinations with regard to the parental rights and responsibilities concerning the children. Home studies can be requested to help the court in determining the living conditions of the parties and how those conditions may affect the children. Discovery procedures, such as interrogatories and depositions, can be engaged in that would aid the parties in determining what assets are involved in the case, what plans the parties have for the children and any other matters that are relevant to the divorce action. Experts may be retained to appraise property and businesses.

The court will probably hold one or more pretrials during this time in an attempt to determine whether a mutually agreeable resolution of the case can be had and, if not, what the issues are that will have to be determined at trial. If the case cannot be resolved, the court will set dates for the conclusion of the discovery procedures, for the production of expert reports and evaluations and for the date of the final hearing (trial).

9.Can the children's interests be protected?
A "guardian ad litem" (GAL) can be appointed by the court at the request of either party or upon the court's own motion to represent the interests of the minor children of the parties. The GAL is usually an attorney familiar with domestic relations law and his/her job is to act in the best interests of the children. The parties will generally be required to pay the fees of the GAL based upon their ability to pay. The GAL will be asked to make recommendations to the court and will have considerable influence when it comes time for the court to make determinations relating to the children.

10.Is there a right to a jury trial in a divorce case?
No. Ohio does not permit jury trials in divorce cases. If the case goes to trial, the judge will make the final determinations.

11.What are the major legal issues in a divorce case?
Generally, the major issues in divorce cases are, the issue of the grounds for the divorce itself, parental rights and responsibilities (commonly known as custody, child support, visitation), spousal support (commonly called alimony), and the division of the marital property and debts of the parties.

12.How does the judge make a final decision?
Both parties will provide the judge with information and documentation regarding all of the issues relevant to the case. The court will have any of the various expert reports that may have been ordered during the time that the case has been pending. The court will hold hearings and a trial where the parties present witnesses, including expert witnesses, testimony and any other evidence that is properly admitted at the time of trial. The judge will consider the recommendations of the guardian ad litem, if one has been appointed. The judge may interview the children if requested or if he/she feels it would be beneficial to do so. The judge is then required to make a decision based on the evidence presented and the law. While the judge has some discretion, he/she must comply with the law.

13.What if I'm not happy with the final decision of the judge?
A party who is not satisfied with the final decision of the trial judge has a right to appeal the decision to the Court of Appeals. Appeals are relatively expensive ($10,000.00 - $15,000.00 is not unusual) and there is no guaranty that an appeal will be successful. Generally, the only matters that can be appealed are that the judge has abused his/her discretion or that the judge has misapplied the law in making the final determination. An appeal is not a new trial. It is a wholly different type of procedure and is strictly a legal proceeding. No witnesses or evidence are presented. An appeal is based solely on the proceedings had in the trial court and whether or not substantial justice was done.

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It looks to me like YOU have grounds for DIVORCE, while your WH does not.
He is going for dissolution, which must be mutually agreed upon.

Lawyers?
Am I reading this correctly?

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Puts YOU in the driver's seat, doesn't it?

CALLING ALL MB attorneys !!!!!

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The "no-fault" grounds include "incompatibility" and "living separate and apart without cohabitation for one year."

If H wants a "NO FAULT OF MINE" divorce in your state, he will have to live apart for an entire YEAR !!!

YOU are in the driver's seat !

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
It looks to me like YOU have grounds for DIVORCE, while your WH does not.
He is going for dissolution, which must be mutually agreed upon.

Lawyers?

Am I reading this correctly?

I believe so. It appears she can delay this for about a year depending upon when he moved out (if he even has...yet).

You can always give into "dissolution" later (like 6-10 months from now) if you want (because it's easier and cheaper)...but if you mutually dissolve it now it will be as though you were agreed/fine with this dissolution and he'll forever justify it that way.

As in: wh says" "Our marriage was over long ago and we "mutually" dissolved it"

Actually in 6 -10 months you MAY choose to file a divorce yourself based upon the grounds of adultery....thus, making your divorce based upon legal grounds of misconduct instead of "mutually agreed upon dissolution". It will cost more so your financial situation and level of care about how you define your marriage will come into play. You may...in a few months not give a crap what or how your WH portrays your marriage hereafter and just want it over...cheaply yourself at that point in time. Up to you.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Thanks Mr W.
I wanted some reassurance I was giving accurate advice.
hug

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Thanks for the advice; and you are right. I can still stand up for what I believe in.
I still believe in this marriage, although it is getting harder.

Now I have a technical question.
WS has gone out and gotten his own cell phone line so that I can not monitor, under the guise of now his employer is providing - which is B**LS**T. He got a blackberry smart phone.
Through some snooping I have found his online user ID and password.

Here is my question, If I log into that online on the computer and he tell on the device at any time that I am doing this?

Of course I have to wonder, am I torturing myself further by wanting to see that stuff?


Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10

"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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Originally Posted by mymissy
Thanks for the advice; and you are right. I can still stand up for what I believe in.
I still believe in this marriage, although it is getting harder.

Now I have a technical question.
WS has gone out and gotten his own cell phone line so that I can not monitor, under the guise of now his employer is providing - which is B**LS**T. He got a blackberry smart phone.
Through some snooping I have found his online user ID and password.

Here is my question, If I log into that online on the computer and he tell on the device at any time that I am doing this?

Of course I have to wonder, am I torturing myself further by wanting to see that stuff?

Let me rephrase that question.
If I log into his online account, can he tell on the device that I am doing this - at any given time?


Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10

"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by mymissy
discovered the start of dissolution paperwork.

They haven't been filed yet...maybe they will be, maybe they won't. Either way, you continue to take steps to protect and improve yourself. Have you spoken with OWH lately? I would not mention the paperwork to him, but do you know if they are headed to D? Other than OWH, does OW's family know of the A?


OWH did call me this past week to see how things were going on my end. I told him that I did not think well and the WS cannot stop the deception and lies. OWH thought they had a good week.
Personally I think she is lying as well and they (OW & WS) are biding their time - not sure for what.


Me:BW
Dday:12/31/09-Found MB 01/03/10
3DstepChildren24&20
PlanA:01/03/10
PlanB:03/25/10
D final 11/15/10

"I dare you to find some time and some place to be silent for longer than usual; a few moments, a few minutes, a few hours. Listen to your heart, listen to your soul; and most importantly, listen to the silence to see what it sounds like and how it speaks to you."
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Originally Posted by mymissy
Originally Posted by mymissy
Thanks for the advice; and you are right. I can still stand up for what I believe in.
I still believe in this marriage, although it is getting harder.

Now I have a technical question.
WS has gone out and gotten his own cell phone line so that I can not monitor, under the guise of now his employer is providing - which is B**LS**T. He got a blackberry smart phone.
Through some snooping I have found his online user ID and password.

Here is my question, If I log into that online on the computer and he tell on the device at any time that I am doing this?

Of course I have to wonder, am I torturing myself further by wanting to see that stuff?

Let me rephrase that question.
If I log into his online account, can he tell on the device that I am doing this - at any given time?

I don't think online reports are 'real time'. At least verizon's aren't. He shouldn't be able to see you.


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Through some snooping I have found his online user ID and password.
dance2

YOU ROCK !

Yes, monitor his blackberry.
You're still in plan A.

I don't see your staying in plan A too much longer, so, when he finds out you can "see" what he's doing in 2 weeks or so .... who cares?

WH probably downloaded the dissolution paperwork from online. Then, WH discovered it required your signature/agreement/cooperation.

"Oh-oh!" grumble <~~~ WH

In fact, OW might have taken that step for WH, and >graciously< downloaded it for him. grumble <~~~ WH

You may find out later the story on this one.

As far as being able to tolerate plan A, I suggest a slight attitude adjustment.
Please recognize your WH is an alien. Have no expectations whatsoever that he will react kindly to your kindness. Please have no expectations of "fairness" or anything resembling "fair".

Consider every plan A gesture you make towards WH as a concealed weapon of tenderness ... with the purpose of stabbing the life out of the adultery.

Consider every plan A gesture you make as a testimony to how strong you are, how reasonable you are, and how much self control you have.

You can think in your mind, "Every plan A gesture is causing WH more discomfort and more confusion." .... Remember, you are in plan A to make lovebank deposits, as best you can. So that when you go to plan B, WH still has those deposits to think about when he starts to feel withdrawls from missing you!


Have you ever read the ART of WAR thread?

I'll bump it for you.
hug



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