I've been reading here for a while now and have learnt a lot from others' stories but I think every story is kind of unique and I could do with some personalised advice.

I'll try to keep it as brief as possible.

My wife and I are both mid 30's. We were married 7 years ago. I came into the marriage with, 3 children. My wife came to the marriage with a child of her own also and we also have a 5 year old together.

Blending our family was always a struggle for my wife because she was a SAHM and went from 1 child to 4 and was a bit overwhelmed with the busy household. It didn't really affect me as I have always been the bread winner and the housework was her domain. This was agreed on from the very start.

About 18 months ago things started going downhill for us. Being a male, the first thing I noticed was a lack of sex. My wife would spend countless hours on the internet, wouldn't come to bed at a reasonable hour at night to avoid sex and became emotionally detached from me. At around the same time, she started hiding her phone, putting it on silent, refused to give me email passwords or see her facebook etc. I questioned her many times back then but did not do any real snooping and didn't uncover anything to confirm my suspicions. In the middle of last year, I could no longer handle the rejection and decided to call it quits. I bought her a house and moved her out. I kept my kids, she took her child and we share custody of our child together.

Almost immediately after our separation, I began dating another woman because my self esteem had been trodden on for so long and I just wanted to feel desired again. I certainly achieved my self confidence back but I know I have to break things off with her because I am still in love with my wife and can't commit to her fully which is unfair on her.

In the meantime, I was constantly searching for the real answers behind our separation. My wife admitted to talking to a guy from her high school days about ours and his marriage problems but says it didn't turn into anything and he is now living overseas. A couple of months ago, I tricked her into believing I had obtained her cell phone records from just before our separation and told her I knew all about the long phone calls and many text messages. She then admitted she had fallen in love with a different guy that she met over the internet. To this date, she claims that they have never met in person and to be honest, I haven't noticed anything that would indicate otherwise, but of course, I'm not living with her at the moment and she has proven that she can look me in the eye and lie without hesitation.

I read the book "His Needs, Her Needs" which is how I discovered this website. Originally, I didn't buy this book with reconcilliation in mind. I bought it because it is the second time I've been cheated on and thought I'd make sure I protect myself in the future. But after reading it, I have new hope that our marriage can still be salvaged. I have learned her most important needs are Intimate Conversation and Affection which was lacking at the time and opened the door for someone else to fill those needs.

Now I see all the mistakes I've made in the past. I begged, pleaded, cried and was really pathetic and anything but a strong man in front of her through our break up. Once I found out about the affair after we separated, I did not expose it to anyone straight away. I did expose it on the forum where it began but I was blocked shortly after. That did make an impact and she was sent the whole post and was furious. Said all the typical things like "I can NEVER forgive you for this", "I was starting to think we might be able to make it, but not anymore after you did this to me".

So now at this current point in time, I am competing with the OM. Problem is, I don't even know who I am competing against. My wife refuses to give me any information. I searched relentlessly on the forum where they met to find any possible hints there, but nothing. I would love nothing more than to confront him, but obviously can't when I don't even know who he is. I have told my wife that there is only one way that we can get back together and that is for me to be told the complete truth about this guy and who he is etc. I believe she is protecting him because he may be married and doesn't want me to stir up trouble. I believe she is also avoiding the complete truth behind the extent of the affair. She tells me he lives at home with his mum but I'm not sure I believe that.

My current plan is to continue to talk with my wife as much as possible. When she needs a hug for comfort I'll give her one. We have been exchanging regular texts and she rings me frequently for more than just talk about our child and I plan to contniue this. When she rings for advice, I am eagre to help her. Basically, wherever possible I am filling the needs that she would have turned to OM for. My biggest question though is, should I continue to fill the needs that I know the OM cannot such as financial security and family commitment. Should I tell her that these priviledges are only available once NC has been established and I know the complete truth behind everything or should I cut her a little slack and just be the best I can for her for a while and then if she refuses NC after a couple of months then go to plan B.

Thanks in advance to those willing to take the time to reply.

Hello,

how did you two meet, where you both or one of you married when you started seeing each other?

Are you still living in separate homes? If so, you should move back together, you should put a keylogger to her computer, GPS and VAR into her can, and find out who the guy is.

During your separation you are still married, and dating other women is having an affair yourself. Are you still in contact with these women? You should end all contacts, and confess your wife about this.

Thanks Mrs R for your reply.

We met on an Internet dating site. I had been separated from my first wife (who became a drug addict and cheated on me with another addict. I never used drugs) for 2 years before dating again. My wife had never been married and was also single at the time.

Yes we are currently living in separate homes. I would love for her to move back home but I have told her that I can't do that until she is committed to me and me only and I must be told about who he is and all the details of the affair. My wife just wants to forget about it and not be punished. I don't wish to punish her and I know I can find complete forgiveness but at the moment I don't know exactly what I am forgiving.

Installing a keylogger or checking her phone is impossible because we are separated. I have thought about a VAR or GPS for her car but I am worried about the legal ramifications since we are legally separated.

Before my wife moved out, I told her that if we separated, I wouldn't waste my life and would start dating again. I stayed in the marriage as long as I could bear it. We went to MC and my wife was completely unresponsive and negative about it. So we separated and I started dating another woman. My wife was fully aware of this and I have never hidden anything from her. I have repected her wish for our child to not be exposed to this woman and I agreed this was in his best interest. Although, I guess technically it could be classified as cheating, I did not lie at all, I gave my wife every opportunity (in fact I begged) to have me for herself but she didn't want me.

I know I have to end things with this other woman and I feel terrible for her as she has built up feelings for me. I don't really feel bad for my wife that I have been seeing her because she knew all along that she could have me and that I wanted her and her alone, but the fact was that she didn't want me back then.

From what I can gather, her fantasy has fallen apart, she is feeling lonely and wants to be with me again but wants to just forget it ever happened. I can't rebuild trust that way. I feel like I deserve an explanation. I am not demanding a point of flesh in punishment, I just need to know who he is and what happened. Is this really asking too much?

So, you are doing TO your current wife the same thing you did WITH her to your previous wife - you were having an affair. Being separated is not being single. And as I understand it you wish to reconcile with your WW while you are in contact with your current affair parter. Do you honestly think that what you had with OW was a legitimate relationship and not an affair just because your WW knew all about it?

You cannot expect your WW to commit to you while you are not committed to her. Commitment cannot be done from separate homes. That cannot be done while having an affair yourself.

You have to clean your side of the street first: No Contact with the OW for life, no talk, no meet, no nothing. Inform OW's spouse that you were having an affair with his wife and apologise.
Establish extraordinary precautions for such thing not to happen ever again, read here: Extraordinary Precautions.
Move back home immediately, no excuses.
Start reading the material available free on this site, starting here: How to survive infidelity AND watch the video also!

***** Tension relieving thread-jack *****

you should put a...GPS and VAR into her can

I'm told the installation isn't too bad, but the removal can be...unpleasant!

***** End of thread-jack *****

Hi LMB,

Welcome to MB!

I am so sorry for the pain you have endured. Uncertainty about what is happening is the worst.

Firt things first, you need to end your Revenge Affair. I unerstand how you fell into this but you have no idea how destructive it is to both your personal and marital recovery!

You have no chance of busting your wayward wife out of her fog, while you are cake eating with another woman yourself. Plus you will become wayward, which is something akin to being an addict.

This woman isnt really very suitable, even if you were single, is she? You know this, but you keep going back for some more 'confidence boosting' to ease the betrayal pains. A bad habit that itches like any other addiction. That is not love. Love is happy and this is an ugly thing.

The way to quit, is to quit. Send her an NC letter in which you tell her you had no right to break your vows and date before you had properly divorced. Then change your contact details so she cannot reach you no matter what. Make sure you dont have any casual contact with her, where you would bump into her accidentally and make sure her Facebook is blocked so you cant see it.

Unfortunately affairs create a drug-like dependancy on people we dont want to commit to - nor do we want to leave them. Letting her in at the most vulnerable time of your life post-betrayal means she will always have a dangerously powerful effect on you and she needs to be cut out sharply.

Is she married? If so tell her BH.

Its like putting on an oxygen mask in a plane. Once you have helped yourself, only then can you get to work on helping your wife.

LOL NeverGuessed

Mrs R, I think it would be a stretch to suggest I was having an affair on my first wife. We had separated for over 2 years, she had long since moved hours away and was living with another man long before I even considered dating again. Perhaps, technically on paper, but I wouldn't consider this to be cheating. And again with my current wife, this was the last thing I wanted to do. I wanted nothing more than to be loved by her but she didn't want anything to do with me. She moved out before I started any dating and I never lied or was deceitful in any way.

Indiegirl, I don't see how you could consider it a revenge affair. When I started dating this woman, I didn't even know my wife had an EA. For me, it was more of a coping mechanism, a rebound relationship. I know it was the wrong action to take now and will be ending things with her. She has been single for 2 years and i have met her ex husband, so there is nothing dodgy going on there. I don't love her, I love my wife. I want nothing more than to be with my wife for every day of my life, always have.

The uncertainty of what lies ahead sure is tough and I think that is what my wife feels also. I think maybe she is reluctant to cut all ties with OM for fear that we will fail and she'll be left all alone. I know my first action is to break all contact with the woman I've been seeing and lead by example. But is it unreasonable for me to expect the same and have proof?

Ok, so I told the OW today that I need to give my marriage one last shot, apologized to my wife for getting involved with another woman so soon after we separated and told her that I still love her more than anything else and I am dedicated to her and our marriage. She told me she is sorry also for betraying me and still has feelings for me. I invited her out for lunch tomorrow but she declined because she fears we will end up arguing. I will be seeing her for an hour or so tomorrow while we are watching our child at the school Easter parade, so I'm looking forward to that at least.

I appreciate those that have posted so far and have taken the recommendations on board as far as cleaning up my side of the street. I fully agree with this. But my original question remains. My wife would be willing to talk about getting back together as long as this is all put behind us. I can't seem to do that because I don't know who he is and I have no guarantee that she isn't still in contact with him. She refuses to tell me anything because she doesn't want me "stirring up trouble". My response to this is always that he stirred up trouble by messing around with a married woman. I can see a couple of reasons for her reluctance.

1. She is afraid of me finding the full extent of the length and nature of their affair.
2. She is protecting him and the possibility that he is married and will lose his marriage.
3. She plans on continuing her affair in the future.
4. All of the above.

Should I just accept that she isn't going to tell me for the time being, or should I take a hard line?

You need to both follow proper protacol if you want MB to work for you. That means no contact letters and exposure - for both of you.

This mindset of "it isn't cheating if we're separated" really needs some work. Breaking up and being a free agent is for boyfriend/girlfriends, not married couples. If you're not divorced, you are still married. Separation exists to either (A) learn to enforce boundaries and work on your marriage or (B) heal yourself before your divorce and then bring your new skills to the dating world after divorce. Or something to that effect.

Dating others when still married implies a lack of respect for marriage and hence, you will bring that into future relationships. Women who are emotionally stable/ready for commitment and respect commitment DO NOT DATE MARRIED MEN, separated or not. So, you understand, that when you are dating women who don't mind you are separated, they make it clear they don't value commitment very much. After all, they might just get dumped anyways when he goes back to his wife and work on his marriage, right? Women (and men) who are willing to date those who are still married, are those who are willing to take crumbs.

Write an NC letter to your OW and give it to your wife so she can mail it. This way she isnt just taking your word for it being over. Then tell her you expect her to do the same to OM and give it to you so you can mail a letter to him. Tell her you also expect his identity of course. Its ok if she refuses, just tell her you will expect it soon. You will be doing this to set her an example of how to proceed.

I have approached my wife previously about an NC letter and she did write one out but it was nothing more than a letter saying how bad he'd treated her recently and didn't say anything about me or our marriage. She also wouldn't allow me to post it or add anything to it myself. I told her it was unacceptable and it never got posted.

I will happily type one out and I agree this is the correct procedure to follow, but every time I ask her to do the same, she refuses. Every time I think we are getting along well and bring up the subject, her response is always "why can't you just let it go" and "you're going to punish me forever over this". She just doesn't understand how important it is for me that I know who he is. I have told her that after the NC letter is sent and I know all the details, we can start the process of putting it behind us and rebuilding trust, but it can't begin if I don't know exactly what it is I'm supposed to be forgiving.

Thanks to those that have replied. I do appreciate the comments, even those explaining how wrong it was for me to be dating while separated. I understand this now and I'm taking the necessary steps to correct this. I would still like further guidance with my wife and what steps I should be taking along the way to get her to open up with me. I gave her "his needs, her needs" but she couldn't be bothered reading it. I've asked her to have a look on here. She says sometimes that she will, but she never does.

In the end, I just want my wife back home. I love her with all my heart and want to feel the same in return. I may not have been a perfect husband but I was better than most and I am a great dad to my kids. It breaks my heart every time our son starts crying when he has to leave here and I just want to bring him up in a happy family where both parents show him and each other love.

One other thing I just thought of. We talk regularly and she quite often tells me she still cares about me and misses me, but whenever she texts me, she will never write those things. Sometimes I feel like she is only writing what the OM would find acceptable to read. It's as if she's being very careful to cover her tracks and not leave any evidence of having intimate conversation with me. If I send her a text telling her I love her and miss her, she won't respond with a text, she will ring and tell me instead. We also had one sexual encounter since our separation and afterwards she made sure to ask me not to tell anyone. Can I get some thoughts on these actions.

It sounds like she is still hopeful of maintaining a relationship with him, or more likely, she is still in contact and is flip-flopping between you both.

Do keep in mind when a woman writes to a lover and complains how crappy he treats her, she's leaving the door open for him to "change", closure is a pseudo word for wanting more contact.

It is time for proper exposure, but I would do further investigation to confirm she is still seeing OM. You are almost certainly correct

I feel like I missed the boat with exposure and messed up in this regard. I am not on Facebook and she tells me she has closed her account too. My daughter used to be her friend on there but when she found out that my wife betrayed me, she blocked her. I have tried to hack my way into her email, but failed.

The only real exposure I have done was to post publicly on the forum where she met OM. That had the desired effect but obviously wasn't enough. I haven't exposed to all of my family because my family are already encouraging me to move on in my life and I don't want them to hate her forever. They do not have any influence over her anyway. She only has one close friend and I have never met her and wouldn't know how to contact her. I'm not sure whether she is friend or foe as my wife has told me that she didn't agree wih the affair and suggested she go back to me, but then, what words do you believe from a WW.

My wife was the one who told her parents the story. I have no doubt, they only know what she wanted them to know and I'm sure she has not painted a good picture of me to them. Obviously I need to clear this up with them. Is it better to write them a letter, ring them or go visit them. Do I do this right now, or should I try to gather evidence that the affair is ongoing first.

I'd say go visit them, and have evidence in hand.

You should expose to as many people as possible--you cannot just assume that they have no influence. You really never know.

Do not worry about people hating her forever. First, that's not your problem. Second, LOTS of families who were exposed to are willing to forgive the WW if/when recovery happens.

Lay low for a bit and snoop. I wouldn't do anything to raise her suspicions as she needs to slip up a bit.

You could accidentally break her phone and buy her an all singing all dancing new one to make up for it (with spyware pre installed) or get a PI.

Don't bother trying to educate a wayward. The A makes them drunk and foggy. Exposure is what you need. After snooping.

Do that letter quickly - she will refuse to do her letter but just act confident that she will do it eventually. Until you do that you're both 'separated and dating' and this legitimises her A. Women waywards want to be fought for by a husband - not kinda liked by an ex.

Well, I told her today that I will fight for our marriage with everything I have. She says that she feels like I am pressuring her. I just stood firm and said that I understand she doesn't feel the same way right now but I let her know I won't go down without a fight and I intend to honour my marriage vows.

I am taking my kids for an easter holiday tomorrow for five days. I'm not sure what my plan should be over this period. Should I talk to her frequently or should I make no contact at all. She took our good camera when we separated, so I plan on borrowing that and leaving all the happy family pictures from the holiday on her memory card to show her what she's missing.

I don't think I have much capacity to snoop at the moment. I can't access her phone. I may be able to organise a GPS and VAR for her car though. It is need of a service and she can't afford it. I wasn't going to help her with this because she doesn't deserve me to be looking after her car at the moment, but that will give me an excuse to have her car for a day and install the GPS and VAR. I am worried she will find them as she is vigilant with this type of thing.

Any other suggestions?

You just supplied your own answer to your own question. Yes, you offer to fix her car. Big LB deposit! Yes, you install GPS and VAR while you have the car. Just get crafty on your hiding places.

I've been researching GPS info and what may be suitable. Bear in mind that I will only be able to access the car once, so it will need to be small and discreet, have a long battery life and the location accessible remotely. There are some available where you ring the unit from your phone and it will send back a text message with the location. Has anyone had experience with this type or have any other recommendations.

Great idea with. The photos and car - a good start to Plan A!

Hehehehe, making a LB$ whilst snooping... gotta love it!