Been thinking what it means to have SF as a top need as I recently discovered while dating. Have been discussing this with very dear friends and couples aswell...

I do not think I want to discover sexual compatibility on the honeymoon as MB suggests.
My future partner must be able to hit my top emo need and must be able to detect that need before I do and ENJOY IT.

Why?
I do not want to compromise on ANY emotional need or compatibility in a future relationship as this was a pattern in the past.

I've learned that if my top emotional need is not fulfilled I will slide into a mild depression -without- realising what is happening to me! I get anxious, whiney, stressed and cynical.
Asking myself all life's questions, neglegting my relationship... when all I really needed was some SF and affection. :-)

I agree with the doctors that good sex can be learned and medicine can help but unfortunalty a lot of women, incl. some of my dear friends, are not able to reach an orgasm physically.
http://sogc.org/publications/female-orgasms-myths-and-facts/

As a result SF scores very low on their list of emotional needs. At the same time SF requires them to have ALL of their own emotional needs met first.

But it does not even have to be that extreme.
One of my friends stated she was in a 4yr-relationship and did not have an orgasm during the entire relationship. That was not a problem for her or the relationship until some of her other needs were not met... SF is at the bottom of her list but became unsatisfactory, grew into an unmet need and a source for conflict once her other needs where not met.

Am I wrong by wanting a partner that has SF high on the list?
Am I trying to solve the classical male-female power struggle paradox? What do you think?

I have SOOOO many friends 'proving' their "sexual compatability" with the men they are dating right now.

Truth is they dont like sex, they would say they have a low drive. However "sexual compatability" is what they think men want.

Typically comments I hear range from "I get bored during sex" to "I want to say, it's been months already, Can't we stop having so much sex?" to "It's just so importnat to him so you just have to, you know" to "I wish I enjoyed it more".

When men SAY that is what they want, this is what they typically get. Fake auditionees.

Have you read Dr Harley's findings on "sexual compatability"? You will find he thinks it is a myth. I do too.

When a woman is in love and feels valued and treasured, she wants to have sex. All women.

I don't see how any woman can feel like that if a good sexual audition from her is required for her to gain love. I think it blocks the feelings required for her true passion.

Women have to be in love first, have sex second. I'm not saying you have to wait for marriage, but don't give not being able to wait a fake reason like sexual compatability.

Nope. Not without the feelings required.



That describes literally every woman I know who keeps settling for long term renters relationships that only meet some, not all, needs. Women cannot reach orgasm in those conditions.

geroldmodel,

To expand on what Indie said, the vast majority of women need a safe, secure, loving environment to really explore their sexuality. They need all of their other needs met before they can open up, but most can't do that in renter relationships, and many will try to fake their way though a renter relationship, but it doesn't work.

So in a way, exploring sex with a potential spouse will not give you the information you are looking for and potentially give you the opposite information.

I think the best way to know how compatible you are is to meet her needs in every way, and wait for her to respond physically, when she is there she will let you know, and I seriously doubt you will have any compatibility issues.

I personally don't believe in sex outside of marriage, so for me this is a matter of principle, however, how could I not have sexual compatibility and a breathtaking experience on our wedding night when we are meeting each others needs so well that we are both desperate for it? Think about it. Have you ever had a women just desperate to jump you in bed? Meet her needs in every way, but hold off for the wedding is a great way to make that happen, and a fantastic start to a great sex life with your spouse.

ak

Absolutely spot on!!! Every single woman is different, and No they aren't all made the same.

A man is only good in bed if and only if he can get the 100% honest feedback from his partner. The only way a woman can be here is if there is a deep, emotional, intimate connection.

If you look at the anatomy ... Dr. Harley describes this in his book, when a husband hits a woman's spot it creates a stronger nerve like reaction for the man, so a man will also have a stronger and more powerful reaction. It's all in the science.

This is only possible if and only if radical honesty is provided.

Again ... just want to highlight this for emphasis.

It's a popular notion that women sexuality is just the same as men. Maybe it's more PC, maybe it's a justification for sleeping around without the "slut" label that some men do not acquire, whatever.

But in relationships, women need love for sustainable passionate sex. True commitment. We're wired that way. There is nothing wrong with SF as a partner's top need but you may also find that the most passionate women are those who expect commitment first.

I was 6 months pregnant when I got married so, really, I'm not one to talk. But if for some reason I was single, I wouldn't make that mistake again and I do advise my younger single sister the same way.

I am not really going to preach that all sex should take place within marriage because I don't have either the beliefs (I'm entirely non religious) or any data to support it. I don't know of any studies which show premarital sex as logically bad.

But I do know this concept of sexual compatability is wrong. All you need for sexual compatabilty is love, commitment, equal energy levels, 15 hours UA time, good health, a working knowledge of the female body in the man and PoJA. The seed can't grow without the exact right conditions. It also can't be prevented from growing in the right conditions.

Look at SE's thread. His wife had a full blown sexual aversion going back years. A few weeks of PoJA and she can't get enough.

Mens' drive is totally different. They can have sex any time, any where with someone they actively dislike. That's testosterone for you.

Womens magazines have embraced this erroneous idea that women should be putting a great deal of unwilling effort into pleasing a man.

You literally cannot pick up a single womens mag that does not lecture women on how to audition sexually to 'improve' the relationship. Its like these writers have never heard of having sex for fun. They probably never have.

All I know is the concept is damaging. Dr H speaks to women all the time who are trying to persuade a man to love them with sex.

I'll only add 5cents here .... why would two people work so hard to get to the level of EN's being met to have great SF if they aren't going to get married?

Because to get to that level would mean romantic lovebanks are filled to the brink, so draining it would be a whole bunch of lovebusters.

A relationship that has a whole bunch of lovebusters would be renter ... so no matter how you want to spin SF outside of marriage, I cannot for the life of me understand how great SF would work unless it is a fully buyer/buyer relationship.

Isn't buyer/buyer perfect for marriage? I would be super pissed if my man would sell me short by getting all the way to buyer but wouldn't marry me...!

Food for thought!

Link to SE's? Thread? That would be an interesting read.

Also, to summarize what Indie said:

Women need a reason to have sex, men just need a place.

How to Overcome Sexual Aversion

Here it is.
SEJ3's Thread

This is just so true. A woman who enjoys sex, understands the set of requirements needed for her to enjoy sex. She knows her wiring is a complex mechanism that can only be handled by someone respectful, knowledgeable and committed. Otherwise it's like handing over your Mercedes to a stranger.

The only kind of woman who needs to do a sexual audition, is one who does not understand and thinks she is lacking. The message in popular culture and from the men she dates is clear - she is supposed to have a pre-existing sex drive. This worries many women because quite simply - they don't have that.

When many people talk about a woman with a "compatible" drive, what they mean is "the same as a man's". One which exists outside of love and commitment, driven by testosterone. Since that isn't available, a woman commonly has to pretend.

Men frequently wonder why their formerly highly sexed partner has a drive which vanishes after he gets settled. It's because the audition is now over and she probably also has an aversion after so much unwilling sex.

A woman who values her passion won't hand it out heedlessly with no regard for her own enjoyment. She would no more do this than a man who is good with money would hand over his fortune to a non commital woman to 'prove' he can meet the need of FS.

There's a series of letters to Dr Harley I think sums up the problem. Too many women are submitting to this idea that they have to 'provide' sex for their husband and see it as a job. In a world where pre-marital and downright casual sex is common, they are also in competition with the other auditionees.

Dr Harley tries to tell her time and time again not to view it as her chore, and stop trying to make herself a man. He tells her flat out she doesn't have the testosterone to feel that way.

She talks about how her husband compares her with a "crazy and wild" ex girlfriend. She talks about how magazines are instructing her to think more like a man. No wonder the joy has been sucked out of her sex life.

I just wanted to add ... that in one of Dr. Harley's books (I am totally blanking so please help me here) I read his view on the science to creating compatibility.

It is my understanding that men do not even have a remote clue to what great SF should look like because they see so much of the fake stuff. Dr. Harley makes it crystal clear that an emotionally bonded woman with an ability to be 100% honest with her partner in the feedback she provides is key to making him "GREAT" in the sack. The man has to be willing to listen and care for his partners satisfaction.

The thing you have to remember, Men, is that with each new partner this process starts over from the beginning. Because the anatomy is different for each woman, and what worked with one does not work with the other. It's a myth to believe we are all built the same.

Great SF takes lots of times with various angles, directions, and speed. When two people are very safe they can create the compatibility that is not only amazing for her, but also for him.

I think this debunks the whole issue of women just aren't into it ... because believe it or not ... if you make us feel good ... we willing continue to keep going and going and going!!!!

ETA ... Why do I believe in this so strongly. Because there was a time in my marriage that my WxH and I got ourselves to a place of high heaven. We spent all our free time together, enjoyed traveling, before our kids, etc. It was some of the best years of our marriage. We had been married already five years, but you would have thought we were newlyweds. The kind of SF we had during those years was exactly what Dr. Harley explained ... through the roof exciting. Then we had baby number one and it all started to go downhill from there. But when when WxH and I had UA time, plus other EN's met, I felt so trusting and bonded to him. We found an SF that worked for the both of us.

This thread is fascinating. Please continue!

And I have a question. If all of this is true, then why do so many women gravitate towards "bad boys" who tend to not do any of this stuff? Certainly they at least appear to desire sex with them.

I've heard Dr. Harley say that men are typically the pursuer, women the responder. This applies to SF as well.

You wanted SF & Affection, so you neglected your relationship. Dr. Harley's article, "How Can A Man Receive the Sex He Needs in Marriage?" addresses this very topic. He says the man must create an environment of meeting his wife's needs...and she will naturally want to have sex with him.

He puts the responsibility on the husband for creating the environment first, and SF will be the outcome.

These days, society tells men they are entitled to sexual fulfillment. In the old days (whatever that means) men had no choice but to prove they could meet a woman's ENs enough to marry her and only THEN would he get sex. It was his reward after a long time (sometimes years!!) of proving his effectiveness at meeting her needs.

Of course, this thinking is 'swimming upstream' these days. "I want it, I'll get it" attitudes prevail in so many areas: overeating, overspending, and sex.

Gerold, if you become a great partner - able to effortlessly meet your (future) wife's needs - you'll get the SF you want and need in your marriage. But if you "must have it" up front, you won't be proving your ability to be a great partner - and you'll have less chance of attracting a great partner, too.

"If you only do what you've always done, you'll only get what you've always gotten."

I cannot speak to other women, and I do not know what a "bad boy" really is.

But my time here on MB has given me the tools to understand what kind of man I desire, and what kind of man I would like as a future partner. That partner will be the man who understands great SF doesn't come from one to the next. He will understand my anatomy is unique and will care enough for me that he will want to continuously work to improve his technique so that I feel great.

I have been divorced for 18 months, and have gone on about 20+ dates, and out of them I dated one guy for six months. I will entertain a second date with some, but most only get to one date.

It is my opinion I seem to be picking a variety of men who are still quite selfish, and have yet to learn the habit of caring for a woman. I do not know why, but it seems men in their late 30's & early40's have built some really bad habits, and have no desire to really change those habits.

Being on MB helps me spot the bad habits (i.e. Lovebusters). My picker is quite sensitive, and it is helping me steer clear from those who ultimately will not care for me or have a thoughtfulness in meeting my needs.

I recently decided to give a guy that has become a friend the opportunity to date me. He has proven himself honest. He isn't the kind of guy I had been picking (i.e. he is shorter, less hair, etc.) but his sweetness has kind of won me over. From learning some things about him ... he had a wild side ... so technically he may still be a bad boy.

I think the key to finding a partner, especially one who can meet my need for SF, is that I know my worth. I know what I want, and I know what I need. I won't settle. I refuse to settle. There are several men in my life that have shocked me because they actually flunked my test for marriage material. As shocking as that has been ... it is a great lesson for me. I won't settle.

I want what Dr. Harley prescribes ... that's why I am on this forum. Dr. Harley prescribes a kind of romantic love that is so dreamy, that I get excited just thinking about it ... and the SF ...oooohhhh man I can't wait. That is through the moon exciting for me.

You call it picking, I call it attracted to. I think what I hear you saying is that you are initially attracted to these men until you get to know them.

Obviously you are more sophisticated, but may I represent to you that there are many women out there who are having very hot, passionate (though short lived) relationships with men whom they find attractive. And the perplexing thing to me (and a lot of other men) is that they seem to be attracted to guys with a lot of bad qualities. The more extreme examples being gang members, guys in prison, mob bosses, etc.

HomeSweetHome - I love your post!!


Hooray! Love this.

This has been exactly my experience dating. I screen carefully before every first date, but they still usually flunk within that first 45 minutes. I've gone out with 22 men in the past 6 months.

May I ask what your "test" is? I have certain I look for...what are yours?

...and to the OP question: if dating men were great at meeting a woman's ENs, they'd have no problem getting a 2nd date, getting her to fall in love, and ultimately getting her to LONG FOR LOTS OF SEX! (after marriage, which offers women the security they really need to have great sex anyway).

It's the great mystery of relationships: if the dude puts the woman's needs first, he'll get what he really wants because women respond to "extraordinary care." If he just grabs for his own needs, he'll lose her every single time (or worse, attract women who are NOT great partners - maybe they "perform" for a while the relationship will fall apart).