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Dr. Harley addressed this letter at the 40 minute 30 second time mark.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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I am conflicted because I feel strongly if anything, she is just getting a conversational need filled. What do you think an emotional affair is? Conversation is how people fall in love. There is no"just" here. This is a very dangerous road she is on. If you're lucky, it's just in the blossoming stage and you've caught it early. You need to know what she is saying to him when she thinks you are not looking. Prisca, if I may ask, how did you feel throughout the process? What were your thoughts when he told you about it (assuming he researched it and started it)? How did it feel early on when he engaged in these conversations with you while you didn't love him? I hated him for trying and I made his life hell. I thought it was pointless, that I would never love him again. I didn't WANT to love him again. I certainly did NOT want to go on dates with him. I just wanted him to leave me alone and let me do my own thing. How did your emotions start to change? First, the OM had to be removed from the picture. My love bank was closed to Markos until that happened. Then he diligently, patiently made love bank deposits and avoided Lovebusters until he pushed me over the romantic threshold. It was a slow process for us because he kept slipping up with Lovebusters. Do it well, and you could be in love again within 6 months. But that will not work if there is another man meeting her emotional needs. You will only be spinning your wheels. It is crucial that you snoop on her and find out just how serious this man is.
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I have access to her phone. I have access to her e-mail. There is one male acquaintance she's had for 2-3 months from her school, and she has been upfront the whole time. I have seen their texts. I have not seen anything worrisome. She hasn't spoken with her ex's in over a decade (which are pretty much her high school boyfriends).
The only regular people she talks to personally are family and 3 or 4 of her girlfriends, none of whom even live in our area anymore. The only exception is the guy from school, and I have seen their conversations and she has told me about him. She has encouraged me to meet him and his wife and kids so we can actually have friends in a similar situation again. I 100% believe that nothing is going on.
Is it so impossible that she simply tried to hide or run from her feelings for years before finally realizing that it wasn't working? And keep in mind, she didn't come out and say, "I want a divorce". She said we deserve to try to fix it, although right now she does not believe it is fixable. Some huge red flags here. Opposite sex friendships are exactly how affairs start. I am particularly suspicious about the one with the wife and kids she wanted you meet. That is a pretty common tactic to throw off suspicion.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"Thanks for the support. I feel really iffy snooping on her like that, especially GPS. Like I said, I have access to her texts and emails. I have her password. I have been watching. I am conflicted because I feel strongly if anything, she is just getting a conversational need filled. But I feel like that should stop while we're going through this."
Getting her needs met by another man is how romances start. It is critical that you put spyware and gps on her phone so you can see what is going on when she thinks you are not looking. If she is having an affair she will routinely delete texts and emails so you can't see them.
You can't go by your feelings here because they will mislead you. You need to go by facts and evidence. The future of your marriage depends on it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thank you everyone for your support. I am going to listen to the radio broadcast now.
D2
Me 30
W 30
ILYBNILWY 6/1/14
Separated 7/31/14
7 month A revealed 12/31/14 (OM ended it)
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I just listened to podcast. Thank you so much, Dr. Bill and Joyce Harley, for responding to my post. I didn't dream of getting a direct response. I will say that she is at least willing to spend more time with me. We have a date this Friday, something that sounds really fun. She wants it to work, she wishes it wasn't this way, but she just doesn't see hope. The other misunderstanding from my initial post is that I have been "in love" the whole time. I have not. Honestly, I was in much worse shape than she was until a couple of years ago when I unknowingly applied some MB principles and fell in love with her again.
D2
Me 30
W 30
ILYBNILWY 6/1/14
Separated 7/31/14
7 month A revealed 12/31/14 (OM ended it)
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markos, how did you give affection regularly if she didn't want it? I know I have only just started this process, so maybe things will change a little soon, but she is in no mood for hugs or any other close contact with me.
D2
Me 30
W 30
ILYBNILWY 6/1/14
Separated 7/31/14
7 month A revealed 12/31/14 (OM ended it)
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markos, how did you give affection regularly if she didn't want it? I know I have only just started this process, so maybe things will change a little soon, but she is in no mood for hugs or any other close contact with me. You might have to redefine what affection is.  Affection is simply an expression of care. It conveys the message "I care about you". Think of it on those terms and I'll bet you can come up with all kinds of ideas. For example, my wife considers it affection when I ask her about her day and listen to her problems.
Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11)
DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
Recovered
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Read Here Affection is the expression of care. It symbolizes security, protection, comfort and approval -- vital ingredients in any relationship. When one spouse is affectionate toward the other, the following messages are sent:
1. You are important to me. I will care for you and protect you.
2. I'm concerned about the problems you face and will be there for you when you need me.
A simple hug can say those things. And there are many other ways to show our affection: A greeting card or an "I love you" note; a bouquet of flowers; holding hands; walks after dinner; back rubs; phone calls; and conversations with thoughtful and loving expressions. All of these can effectively communicate affection.
Affection is, for many, the essential cement of a relationship. Without it, many feel totally alienated. With it, they become emotionally bonded. If you feel terrific when your spouse is affectionate, and you feel terrible when there is not enough of it, you have the emotional need for affection.
Last edited by FightTheFight; 06/25/14 01:55 PM.
Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11)
DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
Recovered
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I think I have gotten to the bottom of the guy friend. No physical affair, but she is at the beginnings of an emotional one. I read all of their texts for the last month (verified none were deleted by checking phone bill). There is nothing extremely personal, but a lot of stuff that is beyond the scope of their school requirements, even when they're talking about school. Just too friendly. I have talked to her about it, and she has read Basic Concepts now. She says she is not attracted to him but she admits she is getting joy from their conversations. That's all I know right now.
She is seriously considering asking for us to separate for now. I am terrified of this. What is MB's view of separation? I have tried some searches of articles and discussion forums, but I haven't found anything particularly direct. Other marriage crisis services seem to almost encourage separation, to allow both parties to "think it through". This seems to go against the grain of UA and Love Deposits.
D2
Me 30
W 30
ILYBNILWY 6/1/14
Separated 7/31/14
7 month A revealed 12/31/14 (OM ended it)
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It makes it much harder to save your marriage if you are separated. You can't fix a marriage if you are not there. I would continue to keep your eyes peeled and quietly watch her without letting her know.
This man is meeting your wife's need for conversation and that is how affairs start.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Lou, if she asks for a separation, I would not cooperate. Of course, you cannot stop her from moving out, but you don't have to go along with it. And I would certainly not agree to a pretend in house "separation" where one spouse moves into the guest room, pronounces herself "separated" and feels entitled to date others. That is a nightmare.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Separation would be a terrible idea. How can you work on your marriage if you are apart? A separation is likely to just make things worse! But, as I mentioned earlier, the risks of separation are great. It should be used only as a last resort to help resolve a fatal flaw in marriage. Once separated, couples often never do reconcile, remaining separated for life, or they eventually divorce. A fact unknown to many is that fifteen to twenty percent of all married couples end their lives permanently separated. These, who are not included in divorce statistics, usually feel that they should not legally divorce for religious reasons. But for most practical purposes, they are as divorced as those legally divorced. Their separation did not create the opportunity for reconciliation, but rather, created an even higher barrier between spouses. You need to be focused on fixing this thing, not separating. The four rules to recovery that I recommend after an affair are marital rules that every couple should be following. So they should form the basis for any plan for recovery after a separation. Since the four rules cover every conceivable problem that married couples face, they would address the issue that led to your separation. If you were to follow these four rules as part of your plan for recovery, I guarantee you that you will not only eliminate the problems that led you to separate, but you will also resolve many other conflicts that have prevented you from having a successful marriage. You need to be in plan A right now. And she needs to give up her guy "friend". Read What are Plan A and Plan B? This is how to recover your marriage: Read Here
Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11)
DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
Recovered
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Going completely without contact with that guy right now is almost not an option, at least form her perspective. He is in her group, a group which she must be a part of through Decemeber in order to graduate. If she doesn't graduate, she will lose her job, which is a very good one for us (good pay, low & flexible hours). They gave her a promotion with the expectation that she would complete this degree. They are also paying $40,000 for it.
All of that makes it really difficult to have no contact with him, and that is considering the fact that she is not on board with trying to fix things right now. Considering that, there's no way contact will stop completely with him right now.
D2
Me 30
W 30
ILYBNILWY 6/1/14
Separated 7/31/14
7 month A revealed 12/31/14 (OM ended it)
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markos, how did you give affection regularly if she didn't want it? I know I have only just started this process, so maybe things will change a little soon, but she is in no mood for hugs or any other close contact with me. You can offer affection even when she declines. The point is you are showing willingness. Dr. Harley defines affection as a symbol of care. When a lady receives flowers and loves them it's not that she loves flowers so much - it's that it's a symbol of the care the man shows for her. The actual care has to be there, though, or the symbol will have no meaning. So if you look through the list of affectionate acts Dr. Harley gives that one lady made for her husband: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5010_qa.html... you'll see that in addition to more symbolic acts, there are also more concrete acts: helping her clean up after dinner, calling her to let her know when he's coming home, etc. So: * include both concrete and symbolic acts of care * continue to offer affection daily Eventually she will appreciate it when your balance in your account in her love bank rises. MEANWHILE, don't let any of this distract you from the all-important task of uncovering the specifics of her relationships with other men!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Going completely without contact with that guy right now is almost not an option, at least form her perspective. He is in her group, a group which she must be a part of through Decemeber in order to graduate. If she doesn't graduate, she will lose her job, which is a very good one for us (good pay, low & flexible hours). They gave her a promotion with the expectation that she would complete this degree. They are also paying $40,000 for it.
All of that makes it really difficult to have no contact with him, and that is considering the fact that she is not on board with trying to fix things right now. Considering that, there's no way contact will stop completely with him right now. So she will keep you around to take care of her until she finishes her high paying degree and then she can take off for greener pastures with her MBA contacts. Sweet deal for her.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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She says she is not attracted to him but she admits she is getting joy from their conversations. That's all we need to know to know that she is having an emotional affair. If you continue to tolerate it, your marriage will not survive. Do you have the book Surviving an Affair?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Going completely without contact with that guy right now is almost not an option, at least form her perspective. He is in her group, a group which she must be a part of through Decemeber in order to graduate. Well she doesn't have to be a co-leader of the group with him. And they don't have to talk about unrelated things. Your wife is threatening to separate from you if you don't let her have her relationship with this man. Your wife realizes she doesn't love you anymore because she has a new point of comparison with this guy. She is developing feelings for him and now suddenly realizes "Hey, I don't feel that way about Lou". If this goes on till December, she will separate from you to continue her relationship with him because she will be in love if she isn't already.
Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11)
DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
Recovered
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 66
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That's all we need to know to know that she is having an emotional affair. If you continue to tolerate it, your marriage will not survive.
Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? I have not read the book. What do you mean by "tolerating"? I have found the truth, confronted her in a respectful manner, and she agrees with what I say, that we can't get better while something like that is going on. But what am I supposed to do now? Demand that she cease? I have already said everything I can say without resorting to anger or demands.
D2
Me 30
W 30
ILYBNILWY 6/1/14
Separated 7/31/14
7 month A revealed 12/31/14 (OM ended it)
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You are Tolerating her having an Affair by not taking crucial steps to blow it apart.
If you do not try to break up her affair, then you are in essence condoning and accepting it.
Get the SAA book and learn it..... Now.
It will not do you, your marriage or your family any good if she earns all that extra money, but winds up with another guy to share it with.
Your conversations are meaningless to a Wayward because they are too buried in their self-entitlement stage
LTL
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