After many days of perusing the forum, I'm still not totally certain which area I'm supposed to post in, so if someone could shed light on this I'd appreciate it.

I was going to post in Surviving affair forum, but it would seem that people have a dim view in there of people who are in a relationship outside of "marriage".

I am in a 100% committed relationship (from my end anyway). I have a child with my defacto, and I have given myself to this relationship as though we have a piece of paper to prove it, 'till-death-do-us-part. I wouldn't still be putting up with BS if it wasn't for the fact that I have committed myself totally. I am a very loyal person and stayed in a previous very rocky marriage for years because I believe in commitment.

As far as laws are in my country, there is very little difference between marriage and defacto. There is noprotection for the married as far as infidelity goes. I know of very few married couples in my area and in fact people treat couples with children who live together as though they are married.

My defacto would seem to be a serial cheater in every long-term relationship he's been in, including ours. He gets a high from the chase/ hunt. I would like SUPPORT as to how to fix things (and not be told to run as far as I can JUST because I don't have the piece of paper) as he IS the father of my child and a good man despite his cheating ways.

So I guess my question is, which part of the forum is right for me to be posting in? Or is this forum not at all for people who don't have the piece of paper (defacto)?

Thank you in advance for your time.

Sidenote: I bought Dr Harley's book on surviving affair months ago without ever having been on this site.

Ok, so looks like I'm going to have to get the Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders book.

How is someone susposed to get their defacto to marry them? And having been married before I can tell you now, just because someone is married doesn't mean they'll behave like a buyer.

Is there a forum for defactos? With children whose partners have had affairs?

Hi Overwhelmed, welcome to Marriage Builders. You are in the right spot. I would refer you to the book Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders rather than Surviving an Affair. There is a world of difference between being married and living together and this book will help you see the difference. Living together is almost always a disaster, as you have experienced.

And sure, you can turn your relationship into a buyers MARRIAGE if you are both completely committed to that goal, but I don't believe you are. Your boyfriend is a serial cheater and your view of marriage is little more than "a piece of paper" so I am not hopeful in the least.

You can download that book on kindle if you are interested. You might want to check out this article: Living Together Before Marriage: Compatibility Test or Curse? by Willard F. Harley, Jr., Ph.D.

Sorry if my posts look a bit disjointed, am breastfeeding while typing all this out.

Thank you for replying. I'm glad I posted in the right forum.

I was married in the past to a man who treated me like poo on his shoe, which might have some impact on how I view things.

This man is not my "boyfriend". He is my defacto (husband-in-fact). And yes, he is a serial cheater, but so was my ex-HUSBAND, and many other married-men out there. I view the piece of paper as being important - but I view one's commitment in heart/soul/mind/descision to be even more important. People CAN and DO get married while not meaning any of the words they utter at the ceremony. People utter words they have no intention of committing to. And people CAN and DO give their entire selves to their defacto with the intention of being there 'till death do us part, the whole she-bang that constitutes marriage vows.

I committed myself to him. I've had a child with him.

I want to be married to him, very very much in fact. We have a baby together. I am 100% committed to him and on the first DD I cried in front of him telling him that I loved him and forgave him and that it hurt me so deeply but I still loved him from the bottom of my heart.

I will buy the book and read it.

Again thank you for replying.

As you have learned, getting married does not guarantee anything. But not getting married and living together pretty much guarantees a bad relationship. Dr Harley calls them "renters relationships" because they are temporary and there is no commitment.


I am sure you would agree that anyone can have a child. It does not mean they are committed.


But he is not committed to you. Unfortunately, you can't force someone to be committed against their will.

I think the book will be a great eye opener in that explains why marriage is very, very different from living together. It can help you and your boyfriend create a buyers marriage, if you are both 100% committed. It can't force someone to do something against their will, though.

Good luck.

And if we got married tomorrow, I can tell you that he would still be chasing skirt. He's addicted to the high of the chase, or having his ego stroked by multiple women. Whether he were married or not does not change that about him.

He could "commit" verbally 'till the cows come home and would still find the hunt too aluring and tempting to leave alone.

I'm committed. I have a baby with him. Some people might view their marriages, their relationships, their babies, whatever to be worthless, but I do not. I am committed, I have a baby with him, I get up every day and cook his breakfast, tell him I love him, smile at him even when I'm crying inside because this hurts you know. I'm trying my best you know, and that's what is required of a person in life: is for them to be the best that they can be.

I know I can't force him to committ, but even if he'd married me in full view of thousands of witnesses, he'd STILL be chasing skirt. So what I've come here for, is to learn how to work in MY circle of control (because I can't make him do anything in reality), be better and do what is needed on my part. I can't force him to commit, I can't force him to stop chasing skirt, I can't force him to do anything, BUT WHAT I wanted to know and get support for, is for what I CAN do?

I'm reading as much of this forum and Dr Harley's site as I can to learn, to grow, to be the best I can be in my relationship and life. I will get and read the book.

I so agree. He has an established renters mentality that will carry over into marriage unless he makes dramatic changes in his approach to relationships. You have hit on the reason why people who live together before marriage have an 85% divorce rate versus 50% for those who don't. When they live together they develop a renters mentality that is just cemented by marriage. Shack up relationships are characterized by abuse and neglect. It is the norm rather than the exception.


There is nothing you can do other than remove yourself from his circle of abuse. You have to accept you can't change a person against his will.

Did your relationship with him start as an affair?

NO! I would never do such a thing. That is repugnant.

Point taken about the high percentage of failed marriages in those who cohabited before marriage.

If I were to remove myself from his circle of abuse, my child will grow up in a broken home. I won't do that to my child.

Are you saying my best option is just to give up?

Your child is in a broken home NOW. Your best option is to separate because his behavior will destroy your emotional and physical health. Your child will not benefit if you have a nervous breakdown from your boyfriends abuse and neglect.

My ex husband was a serial adulterer. It started when I had a newborn. I had no idea of the extent of it until he made a single mistake. After a while I stopped counting the number of women. Yes, he got an adrenaline rush out of it. The women were old, ugly, fat, desperate bottom fishers. Once confronted with the reality, he dumped the latest slag and said he wanted to stay. I decided that it was now going to be a real marriage or no marriage. When I caught him sneaking off for 'a quick lunch' a couple of months later, I realized that this was an addiction for him. I realized, as you have done, that the hunt was too alluring. I did not want to spend the rest of my life with my heart in my mouth every time he was five minutes late or did not answer the phone.

The damage to my children was already done. All three of them have major trust issues. Children are totally tuned into their parents' relationship because this is their entire life. No amount of pretend will fool them.

Here while you wait for the book.
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

Thank you for that BrainHurts :-)

I'm reading that thread now. It's going to take me a week or two before I can order the book as money is really tight. The thread looks good though!

You're welcome.

What would you say your BF is?

If you think he is a good man despite his cheating ways that is a big part of your problem. You have low standards. That you aren't married isn't why I would walk away...it's that he is a serial cheater and you have even said that he is a good man in spite of it so why in the world would he care to stop chasing women? He knows you are loyal and will stay at all costs.

Overwhelmed,

What would you say your #1 emotional need is that you would like your bf to fulfill for you? Is your bf meeting this need? Or are you almost always left longing for it?


Your bf is addicted to the thrill of chasing skirt. What are you chasing? Which 'Chase' do YOU have influence over?

I've had an uncommitted marriage too, which was subject to affairs. As you discovered it takes two to be committed.

Next time I want a man who not only says the vows but lives up to them. I wouldn't settle for a man who will not even say the words!

I appreciate he is your child's father but he is not committed to you. The SAA forums are a way of reminding the wayward spouse how in love and committed they once were. Like resetting a computer.

It works. But not for people like me whose spouse was not really committed, just pretending. Or for you, whose SO is not even willing to pretend. He's just taking all you have without any promise to respond.

You are a committed person and you deserve someone else like yourself. They exist!


Try the book. You're clearly a potential buyer.