The problem is that your wife has a lifestyle that won't support a marriage. She hangs out in bars, has very intimate, personal relationships with men, and drinks like a fish. You say that her mother wouldn't allow her to have an affair, but she doesn't need her permission. I don't see any way to turn this around unless that changes.

Everything you say about your wife are classic traits of cheaters, citing endless grievances about their spouse, blaming their spouse for everything, not allowing their spouse to meet their needs, staying out all night.

I don't think you really know what is going on. And even if you did, I don't see how you would resolve the problem unless you persuaded your wife to stop her single, swinger lifestyle.

I'm just trying to imagine this conversation with my mother:

"Mum, let's go to the bar. I will leave my husband at home. You can come watch some drooling perv hit me up with lame love quotes. Sound like a good night to you?"

I honestly can't frame her reply. In fact I doubt I would survive that conversation. My mother would be horrified if I behaved towards my husband and other men in that way.

She most certainly would not go along too.

And my mother is a riot. She is enormous fun to go dancing with. But she has little patience for alley cat behaviour.

Hi, Man,

I am sorry for the circumstances that brought you here. Marriage Builders can help you turn it around, if you are willing to do some things that may be uncomfortable or non-instinctive for you.

I have personally turned my marriage around using Marriage Builders, in circumstances when my wife did not want to cooperate or follow any suggestions, and when she was allowing other men to meet her emotional needs.

Here is what I would recommend you do:

* Start listening to Dr. Harley's free Marriage Builders Radio show every day. You can listen online on this website, or you can install an app on your phone or tablet. The show is available 24/7 and there is a new show each weekday. You are going to need to educate and broaden your perspective about marriage and affairs, and this show can do that for you. You are also going to need continued motivation and encouragement, and the show can help provide that as well.
* See your doctor about getting antidepressants prescribed for the short term. As your wife's behavior continues, it will take an emotional toll on you. You will begin to see problems as unsolvable and to think less rationally. Antidepressants can help keep you rational and even out the emotional highs and lows enough for you to be able to follow a plan to solve your problems.
* Continue and increase your snooping behavior. Find out exactly how far her behavior goes. DO NOT CONFRONT her about it - bring back what you find here to find out what to do with it.
* Start tagging along with her wherever she goes. Become so integrated into her life that she would not be able to have an affair without your knowledge.

Thanks Man!
OK so I have a psychiatrist appointment here in the next few days. I'll bring it up to him. I went and saw my marriage councilor today without my wife so that I could get a greater idea of what the issues are. He too believes that she has not started the "true" affair but also stated that I need to start going to the bar with her. I don't drink and it will be tempting but I think I can handle just drinking coke. He has stated that I don't need to push her and I need to back off and get out from under her [censored] at home. This is pushing her farther away. I will search her phone tonight, but I doubt I will find anything. The messages I have read so far indicate that he is using her to get close to my wife's cousin. Either way he makes me feel uncomfortable. I have been snooping around and questioning people I know from the bar. They say that my wife keeps to herself most of the time but loves to dance with her cousin or alone. Never with anyone else. That was reassuring. I will start listening to the radio show tomorrow. Thanks guys!

You don't need a marriage counselor or psychiatrist. You need to come here and learn Dr Harley's program and snoop on your wife. Marriage counselors don't know how to deal with affairs. MB will help you. Can you afford a PI? Put a VAR in her car. Do everything you can to find out what is going on. Don't believe the crap that he is using her to get to her cousin. She is in an emotional affair and perhaps physical. You need to find out.

You don't need a marriage counselor to tell you what the issues are. The posters here have told you what the issues are and you need to follow their advice and find out the extent of her likely affair. Stop listening to people at the bar and find out yourself.

I will, I have plans this weekend to try and catch her in the act. I also placed a spy app on her phone that will send me all of her texts to and from.

Good and when you find the evidence do not confront her, come back here for guidance.

I wouldn't go to the bar, that would disrupt your own recovery and that is literally the one thing you have going for you right now. You can't do this without a clear head and that bar is stuffed with people who would love to see you fall off the wagon.

I would ask her not to go, offering a fun date instead, but expect her to ignore that request. Spyware on phone is a good idea but I would add a VAR in her car and a GPS.

OK well it has been a few days since the last messages. but I looked and saw one from last weekend where they were talking about a present I got her for Valentine's day and how much she liked it. But then he said that he was "going to bed and good night"... "Luv ya"... SHe said "GN talk to you later"

Today they picked back up on the conversation and it was all about taxes. She said she couldn't do them. and that he needed to take them somewhere else. Then the conversation went to her cousin and the bar. He asked if she was going to be there and she said she would try. He said is the cousin going to be there? Can she get away? Would you tell I am thinking about her? My wife said she would try and she would tell her.

Cover story messages

Men don't woo women through their cousins. Come on dude.

OK I realize that she is having an emotional affair with me. I get that. I feel that. I understand it. She has not slept with him yet. I promise you that. I know it could happen. I am trying to put a stop to it before it does. But I am also pushing her further away.

Last night I explained to her why I didn't want her going out to the bar. I also told her that if she wanted to go, then I would be going with her. SHE IS PISSED. I am trying to do the Policy of Mutual Agreement. I am trying to compromise with her. She said fine "I'll go out Saturday night." I asked her why she wants to go. She said" I am trying to get away from reality and you are my reality. I go there to be with my friends where I feel loved." So I asked her "What makes you feel loved?" She came back with "I don't think I should have to tell you that. It is your job to find out." I asked her why she is so mad. She said, "Because you are telling me what I can and can't do." I asked her if I said she can go, would that make her happy? She came back with an attitude "Are you allowing me to go?" I chuckled and she didn't like that I thought it was funny. I am trying to keep my cool. I just don't know what else I am supposed to do.

Oh when trying to come up with other options for this weekend, She said "Fine you go to the bar and I'll bring all my friends here and party." She wants to get away from me.

Snoop harder.

OK I had an epiphany, her relationship may be developing with this guy, which I am trying to put an end to, but that's not the biggest issue here. She is having an emotional affair not with a guy but the bar and her friends there. She said that she feels most loved when she is at that bar.

The 'you can't do anything right' attitude is very typical of adulterers. It's a problem they can't tell you about, so they just tell you the problem is - you.



She 'said' that did she? Wow, then it must be true.

Honestly man, those are the worst cover up affair texts I've ever read. At least my ex sent pretend texts to his OW that he was going over to fix her computer. Something he could have actually done.

But that he's asking her to do taxes and set him up with her cousin?

Do me a favour.

They know you're watching. Snoop harder.

Well imagine that. Addict gets mad at suggestion addiction time is over.



This is not the policy of joint agreement but the policy of the doormat.

Appropriate responses would have been

"This is a request, because your behaviour is hurting me terribly"

"It is up to you, I would like to see you enthusiastically put our marriage first"

And

"Im not going anywhere just yet but I'm unlikely to stay in a marriage where my wife goes to bars"

If she argues, just reiterate you aren't trying to twist her arm. Indeed if she isn't enthusiastic about dropping the bar you'd rather not hear about it.



Just state your expectations and drop it. No persuasion.

Be kindly to her but firm and end conversation when she is cruel and testing you.

So here's the deal, I need to focus on the problem of late. How to negotiate with my wife so that we are both enthusiastic about the choice.

Her and I are in no way shape or form in a good place. If you read my other thread, " Wife wants out. Me? I have hope... " You will see that our problems have just begun.

Problem (Wife's POV):
Wife wants to go out with her friends to the bar so that she can have time away from me. She will be taking my Mother-in-Law who is also our babysitter.

Problem (My POV):
After a recent upset and issues from last week, I feel it necessary that I go with her or we find something else to do mutually.

Scene as it has been unfolded:
Last night I explained to her why I didn't want her going out to the bar. I also told her that if she wanted to go, then I would be going with her. SHE IS PISSED. I am trying to do the Policy of Mutual Agreement. I am trying to compromise with her. She said fine "I'll go out Saturday night." I asked her why she wants to go. She said" I am trying to get away from reality and you are my reality. I go there to be with my friends where I feel loved." So I asked her "What makes you feel loved?" She came back with "I don't think I should have to tell you that. It is your job to find out." I asked her why she is so mad. She said, "Because you are telling me what I can and can't do." I asked her if I said she can go, would that make her happy? She came back with an attitude "Are you allowing me to go?" I chuckled and she didn't like that I thought it was funny. I am trying to keep my cool. I just don't know what else I am supposed to do.

Oh when trying to come up with other options for this weekend, She said "Fine you go to the bar and I'll bring all my friends here and party." She wants to get away from me.

I am at a loss here. I need suggestions to get through just this problem. Please help.

Dr. Harley would agree with your wife that everyone needs an escape. He encourages husbands and wives to learn to escape together. You need to become pleasant enough to be around that she sees her alone time with you as an escape. That is the trick every Marriage Builder has to accomplish, and you can do it.

You probably also need intervention for her possible alcoholism and for her developing a relationship with this guy who is possibly just trying to get to her cousin. Don't leave either of those issues unhandled.

I encourage you to stick to one thread so everybody can see your entire situation at once and not miss important details.

Everybody deserves an escape from reality. Build one for her for fifteen hours a week.

Are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show? Daily?