Read this from Dr Harley's exposure thread:

here


All waywards are furious about exposure. This is due to the fog. It would be like a falling down drunk threatening to disown you if you take away their booze. Do you take them seriously while they are drunk?

Change that to: he WILL become hostile. Just expect it. You are bringing a crowd of onlookers into the crack house to watch the crackheads get high. They are going to be FURIOUS!!! Just expect it. But once the high of the crack wears off, so will his anger. Anger over exposure is a sign of the fog.

The only way you can avoid his wrath is to become an enabler like your mother. And marriages cannot be saved by enabling.

It is truly sad that your mother has chosen to enable him. Can you persuade her to step up here and do something to help herself?

Yes, I will talk to her.
She is not happy with the situation, but she is so much convinced that one cannot empose his/her opinion on others (in our case to change my father's curretn attitude), she feels she has not the right to do this. Especially, when we talk about love - she thinks that this is a very special unique feeling, which just happens.. and we cannot/should not touch it. She bilieved that she can influence my father by working on herself and improving herself, and being nice, so that he wants more to come back to her/us.
So sad that the books are not translated in our language..
Anyways, I will talk to her more. And it is clear that her way doesn't work - she could not win my father back.
Until this moment I thought I also have guilt that we cannot win my father back, because I thought I have interfered with her strategy - by writing this other woman and by making my father angry and demanding that he stops his affair, I thought I pushed him even more away...
But it seems even without my actions, we could have been in the same situation now..

Your mother has a very passive outlook about her situation. Exposure most certainly does change people's attitudes about their affairs. It is the most potent weapon against an affair there is. Would she feel the same way if your father was hooked on heroin and living under a bridge? Would she throw up her hands and say she couldn't help him? Well, having an affair is just as destructive. And she is uniquely positioned to bring pressure to bear on his affair if she would only stop being an enabler.

Romantic love is not something that happens by magic fairy dust. We know exactly how it is created and can help your parents fall in love again.

Her being nice and trying to be attractive is good......but only for awhile. After a few weeks it only makes her look more unattractive because a woman competing for a man is a turn off to most men. It also makes her emotionally and physically sick to be competing for her own husband.

Your mother makes herself look more unattractive by hanging around making herself available as an option. She diminishes her value this way, making it less likely he will come back.

MelodyLane, does it make a difference if I, as a daughter, expose the affair? Is this less strong? I will talk to my mom, but I am not sure she will be so active. If I convince her just to support me in this endeavour, it will already be a success.
Will our friends help moere if my mom is talking to them about this?

It would be great if your mom could do this with your help. But if she won't, then just having her support will be sufficient. I am just concerned about her enabling. She is making the situation worse by going along with his destructive behavior. She doesn't help him and she doesn't help herself or her kids by aiding and abetting his destructive behavior. Wish you could get her to see that.

There is nothing dignified, caring or virtuous in sitting by doing nothing while your spouse destroys your marriage and his own life. Your dad is ruining his life and hers. Why enable such destructive behavior?

By going along with his affair, she gives the impression she is fine with it, which only emboldens your father in his destructive behavior. If she objected strenuously he would have second thoughts. But by going along with it, he has no reason to question his behavior.

And yes, he might be in "lurve" today, but he won't be soon when reality slams his affair. His affair is doomed because all the traits that made it possible will destroy his affair, deceit, dishonesty, selfishness and thoughtlessness. His OW will never be able to trust him out of her sight because she KNOWS he supports adultery. She also knows that he has pisspoor boundaries around women so their relationship will always be at risk. There is a very high likelihood he will cheat on her, because he believes in cheating. Someone better is bound to come along.

Thank you. And when I/we write to our friends, to my father's colleagues, and to OW's friends and colleagues, should we tell to him and to her immediately that we wrote to everybody? Or just leave it to the friends/colleagues to contact them (and eventually they will understand this way).

Just let the contact get in contact themselves. Later you can tell him to whom you exposed. But in the meantime, they can be left to wonder who knows!

I would have your mother read this thread so long as there is no chance that she will show it to your father. There are a lot of concepts here that may persuade her to take a different and less passive view of her husband's infidelity.

I think it's great if your mom gets involved and does this herself. She won't regret it. If and when she saves him from making the biggest mistake in her life HE will come to respect her for it and love that he had a woman capable and willing to lay it all out there and do what it takes to hold him accountable and, literally, save him.

If he doesn't respond and divorces her anyway....she'll be able to move on better knowing she did all she could to honor HER vows to "love, honor and CHERISH" him (trying to save someone is a loving act) and be able to move on without the torture of 3 months to 2 or 3 years of plan appeasement hoping he'll see her changes and change his mind OR waiting for the affair to die out a natural death. When someone insists on leaving you...you just have to let them go (while not in any way supporting or enabling such a destructive hurtful choice)

That being said. Asking your mother's involvement or support isn't a requirement or prerequisite to doing it. She MAY try to talk you out of it. Say you are causing unwanted or unneeded interference in HER relationship. That you have no right....etc. We call this betrayed spouse fog. Betrayed Spouse fog happens when the betrayed spouse BUYS that the affair is partly their fault, that they really weren't a great spouse and if they NOT just act better (and appease the wayward) he will eventually notice, tire of the OW and come home.

Just expose anyway. Your relationship with your father AND your mother can and will survive this anger at your interference. Sometimes, it even helps that, in this case, your mother can actually side with your father in their anger at you for upsetting the apple cart. They can commiserate together how YOU are being a problem and difficult child. Your mom will tell dad how she had nothing to do with the exposure and tried to talk you out of it. You actually give your mother plausible deniability which MAY, when the affair initially ends and he's still super upset at you for being part of the reason it ended, allow him to NOT blame your mother for the exposure and eventual demise of the marriage. He also might not play games with money and support if your mother seems to be going alone with the situation and upset with you for exposure. You MIGHT make a nice scapegoat which will be uncomfortable for you....but you've already proven yourself to be the only reasonable and objective person in this situation so whatever it takes.

All is fair in love and war. This is a war for your family. You just might save it....you might not...but the battle against evil will never be won if good people don't stand up for truth, light and right. When you grab a sword, grab your shield as well.

MrWondering, thank you also so much for the reply!

Yes, I will try to talk to my mom first, to explain her all these things, which we have been discussing here. I do not know if I will manage, because indeed she seems to be in the fog you mentioned - she indeed told me all these things before - that it is their relationship after all, that I should let everything the way it is, and let's wait for what will happen...

I myself have a zero tolerance to what is happening, and all these months I have been on a play with my natural instincts to fight against what happened, and the attitude of "let's be passive for good, we cannot do anything now". The problem has been basically, that during the first 2 months I expressed everything I felt and all my thought and beliefs in all possible ways to my father, and nothing changes. And that's why my mom wants me to stop, because I only make my father angry. And to be honest, I was indeed starting to think that I should not make him angry, becuase in this way I push him away from us, and he unites even more with the other woman. Because when I continue asking him to stop the affair (by good voice, by bad voice, by explaining and rationalizing), this all makes him angry and I think this makes him want not to be with us even more. He goes then to this other woman, who is only smiling and making him happy.. That's why I wasn't sure what to do anymore, and I so much needed an advice. Thank you all once again.

So, from everything I read, I should not be afraid of his angriness by my/our further actions, right? Not be afraid that it will push him even more away. Indeed, I should expect him be angry as MelodyLane wrote, too.




I just want to be sure I undertand this correctly: we should first fight, and then let the person go, if he so much insists. And how much is enough to fight? After we expose well the affair, and nothing happens, is this the final efforts we can do?

Thank you!

You can be available for him if he decides to end his affair but be very firm about having nothing to do with him and his OW. Being in contact with them is a grievous act against your mother. And I understand she wants to pretend it is all cool, but it is not and she knows this deep down.

But outside of that, there is nothing you can do.

ANNNNNDDDD...

I think that would include your mother IF she insists on being around him and trying to maintain contact with him.

I think you said your over seas....so I can't give the example of Thanksgiving but, perhaps Christmas works. Suppose Mom wants to have a family Christmas dinner hoping that by getting you all together she can help your dad mend fences with you kids and, she hopes, in turn he'll be appreciative of her efforts. Your mom might think this is also a way to interfere in the affair.

You have to refuse the invitation. Offer to spend time alone with mom but as far as you are concerned Dad is dead to you UNTIL he repents (changes his mind), ends his affair (no contact) and commits to working a marital recovery plan with you mom (that doesn't necessarily have to be successful...he just needs to go "no contact" and then TRY).

When mom and others try to tell you that you must forgive you can tell them you will forgive but forgiveness doesn't require reconciliation of the relationship.

If you have children....these choices apply to your children (minor children) too. You don't want your kids around wayward grandpa either. There are wayward forums out there on the internet with all kinds of messed up and delusional still wayward spouses. It's a destructive lifestyle that decent people should stand clear off.


Again...you can change your mind 2, 3 or 5 years down the road and maybe try to establish some relations with your father. This doesn't have to be forever. Usually, at the very most, it takes about 2 or 3 years for the regret to seep in....their marriage may be over and your mom thankful to be done with him and he'll just be a sad and pathetic shell of his former self that then finally wakes up and realizes he messed up. Hopefully he'll wake up sooner thanks to your efforts.

If you want to find out her FB friends, you can still see some of her photo's and postings. You can probably also see people who "like" photo's and posts. These are some of her friends.

Among these friends are gamers, people who play candy crush and other stupid time consuming games. They friend anyone. Start playing candy crush, Friend some of those gamers and you will be able to see more of her activity on Facebook.

Use google. Search *site:facebook.com "name of skank"*. You will find more of her postings on posts of friends. Search also for images. A lot of the small images you find are avatars of friends (also people sesponding to the same posts as skankho). That's how you find out who her FB friends are.

Good luck.

Thanks a lot!
She has blocked me completely - I could not see her profile at all. But I created another account on facebook, and in this way I can see her profile. I still cannot see her friends, but I do see her activity, and her friends' "likes" and comments. So I can have a list of (if not all) at least some of her most active friends on facebook.

I don't like this spying job... it takes so much of my time and health... How nice it would have been if this did not happen at all.. But there is no other way. Despite all these nerves and sleepless nights, I am really determine that we tell eveyone the truth, our story through our eyes. We deserve that everyone knows the facts. And hopefully this will lift the fog of my father. It is not fair otherwise. It will hurt anyways always, and in this way there is a bit of chance that it changes. Thanks for the support. It means a lot to me.

Adultery is ugly, sorry you have to suffer. Your father doesn't realize he is not only betraying your mother, but his entire family.

Smart people block everybody on FB, dumb people just block you. I bet that if you friend some of her friends, you will be able to see even more content. (first friend some unrelated gamers with >500 friends, they accept anybody).

Update: Hello, I talked with my mother and my brother that exposing the affair could help, but to put it shortly: they don't agree much, to be honest - not at all.

My mom is sharing with some of our closest relatives and friends, which is good. Even today she spoke with one of them, who overcame the same thing, absolutely similar story, and who finally divorced her husband. She told her that she could not stop her husband from the afffair and the other woman, and she agreed to divorce, because he didn't change. My mom now is sharing with others more for support in order to know what to do next, because things are really goint to divorce, and how to proceed, and also to feel better, because they tell her their similar stories, and she sees that she is not alone.

But she does not think that telling everyone will help, and because of that she does not want to do it. She says that everyone will understand anyways, why do we need to bother to write and tell to people? And also she does not know what to tell them. As I said, for her it is useless just to inform them, as they will learn anyway, and everyone will know that they separated because of an affair. My father does not hide it either - everyone knows that he met this other woman while still officially married to my mother. But he does not feel much guilty, because they he says they had problems in marriage before, their love went away, and he now found another person to love. "His new love", as he says, and he is very determined to keep it. He also told me that he knows things between him and his lover may not go good eventually, but he is determined to try, and for this to happen he wants to divorce.

My mother talks to those to whom she think it can help her to overcome the separation easily, but not that they really can help her save her marriage. I think still that she will agree to tell to some other close friends, if I ask her, but she cannot ask them to tell my father something. She thinks it is totally up to him, and nobody can change his mind.

And she is ABOLUTELY against writing to the friends and colleagues of the other woman. She also asks me not to do it. She things it is useless, it will not help, and it will bring only badness, by totally spoiling the relationship with my father, because now at least they talk.

I also told her and my brother about the example if my father was really drunk and sitting in a car to drive, and if we were there we would not have allowed him, even if he was protesting. Because we would have known that he might get badly injured or even die. But I could not convince them with this. They still think it is a different situation, althought they said they see what I mean. But they maintain that it is up to him to change, and to do anything he wants with his life and relationship.

My mother just accepts what is happening and lets my father go away. She says she is OK with that. She has never been a pushy person, and neither is she now. She says she cannot do anything else, and let's just be it if he wants it this way.
She in general does not want to divorce him, but since he wants, it is OK for her. She told me that she will not communictae much with him after the divorce. And she says that since the are going to be separated anyways, why do they need to be married on paper. She even wants it, because she is convince that nothing can be done, and she cannot be married to a man who has a relationship with another woman. Well, here she is right. I am only so sad that she is so convicned that nothing else can be done. She does not believe in the exposure. And even if it will be sad, divorce here is not a very difficult thing. We don't have much property to divide, neither much money. She is OK with that. My brother is OK with that.

My brother also thinks that esposure will not help.

So, I think the divorce is almost there...

I still plan to do the following:

-- I told them that before they divorce, I want them (my father, my mother (I will help her with translation), and my brother) to read the 3 books: "His needs, her needs", "Fall in love, stay in love", and "Surviving an affair". I want them to read the first two, because they will get a better understanding of the whole idea, all the concepts, needs, love banks, why things go wrong, etc. I want them to really at least educate themselves. One important thing: I don't believe so much anymore that if my father, in this state now, reads the books, he will change. But I want him to read them anyways, because still something will remain in his head, and it can came to him later. And I do hope that at least my mother and my brother can understand something, and can be more supportive of all the things I am telling them, and why exposure can be good, etc.

-- I still plan to expose it myself to her friends and colleagues, even if my mother and brother do not agree. And also to friends and colleagues of my father. I really think that everyone deserves to here about the story from my eyes, as a daugher. I will tell them the facts - that it is an affair, it happened while my father has been married to my mom, and even if they separate, everyone should know what happened, and that we are in pain. The only thing for me which is difficult to decide now is when to do this. Because I really want my family to read the books, and if I expose before that, they will be all against me and neither of them will read the books. And subsequently, they will never understand why I did this (the exposure). I am not sure, if they will agree to expose even after they read the books, but at least I will be happy that they read them. While they read the books, I will prepare the letters, and as soon as they finish reading, I will send the emails. I know that according to the advices here, I should expose immediately. But in our situation, I think that it does not matter anymore if we postpone for a while (1-2 weeks) until everyone reads the books. I bought the three books alreadt for them in paper verson, they have all three books and they just need to read them now. Do you think it will be OK if I do it this way? Thank you!