Hello,
several months ago we learned about my father's affair. He has a sexual and emotional affair with a colleague, which started almost a year ago. My father is 55, and this other woman is 32. My father shared with my mother three months after the affair began. This has never happened before, and he felt guilty. At the same time, however, he wants to stay with this other woman and to marry her at all cost. Several months later they told my brother and me about this.
It has been a devastating and shocking news to all of us. My brother and me are not small anymore (28 and 31), but it is a shock anyways. When I heard for this for the first time I burst into tears, and I told my father that he cannot do this, that this is not right. That it steps over and spits on everything he taught us. For us it is a shock, because my father has always been a very good and moral person. You might ask me, how I know this, but we have talked with my parents about this, and this has really never happened before (infidelity). He has always been very negative against affairs when they happen to other people. Recently we had our uncle who had a ffaor and left his family, some years ago other family friends. Long time ago his grandfather did the same when he was in his fifties, and my father knows from his father that it caused so much pain. We have always been open to talk about this - when this happened to my uncle and other family friends, we have always talked and discussed. His good behaviour, his good thinking, his good morals - this is what I have now from him! He taught me this way. And that's why I was in shock.

And because I believe I know my father, we have always been close as a family, I could not understand what has happened. After the first moments of anger, pain, shame, etc., I started reading a lot about this topic - everything that I could find on the internet. I just could not believe how this can happen, how my father can change all his beliefs and become so much caring for and loving another person whom he knows for a few months, and do not care anymore about his other family and how much pain he causes it - because he has always been a caring and loving father and husband. I just wanted to understand what's going on, how could it happen, even scientifically how is it possible. At one point I found this website, and I read almost everything here. I also bought the books "His needs, her needs", "Fall in love, Stay in love", and "Surviving and affair" in a paper version and read them. And they helped me a lot to understand what was happening - they answered almost of my questions. I was so happy I found them!!

But unfortunatly, up to this moment, I could not help my family. I send my father the link to the website, but he did not read much of it. He said it seems good website, but he barely read it - he is just not interested. Then I send him the book "His needs, her needs", but now two months after having the book he still hasn't read it. I tried many times to tell him and to write him about the things I learned from the web site, but he does not want to listen to me. He treats me like his little daughter, who does not understand much and who has not lived as much on this world as he has. He is not listening to anyone - neither my mom, nor my grandmother, nor my brother, nor some of our best family friends who are all upset. I am so desperate. And the desperation became stronger by the fact that he wants now to file for divorce in the next weeks and to have everything done as soon as possible.

And the funny thing is that he does want to have a good realtionship with everyone, including my mother. They are having friendly relationship right now. He is leaving in another apartment right now, but he often comes home if there is something to do. My mother wants to restore their marriage. She was shocked and she felt lots of pain from what my father did, but she/they talked a lot about how this happens, why this happens, and she thinks that she could have been a better wife, and therefore she is ready to forgive him and ready to solve their problems. She want to keep the family together. I am so amazed by her behaviour and thinking. She has always been very quiet woman, but now put in this situation I could see how strong she is.

From my own observation through the years, and from my talks with my parents, and what they told me about their mariatal problems - I understand that they have gone through the paths, which Dr. Harley decribes - there were many love busters involved, which caused their love for each other to disappear. My father has always had very anger-ourbursty character - I rememebr numerous situations since I was a child for many different reasons. Almost always these have been domestic or family issues. As soon as he does not like something he shouts and offends. And always he excuses himself after that. I don't remember a single case when he hasn't done it, to excuse himself. He is a good person. One of the best I know by his heart. Really good, and that's why I love him so much. But he can be like a hurricane, and then when the storm goes away, he is nice and sorry for what he did. And often he had a good reason to be uncontent, but the way he expressed this was horrible. And this had definitely affected my mother. She has always been calm, not looking for conflict, I barely have seen her to shout or be angry herself. When my father was shouting, she was always quiet. She never liked it, I saw her sometimes crying, but she never answered back at his offends. He did not hit, but outburst were verbal, and they caused lots of pain. And because after every outburst my father was good again, it was all good again in the family. Overall they were fantastic parents.

But these things definitely offected my mother and things became harder with time. She also gain weight which further made my father not happy. He loved her, but he wanted her to look better. She wanted too, but it was hard for her, plus the angry outbursts continued, and I guess at one point she just lost her motivation to look better and to improve. They told me that in the last few years they also did not have any sexual contact. Which is not a surprise for me. My father was affectionate from time to time by giving flowers and gifts to my mother (he has always done this), but his angry outbursts continued as well...

My father is an educated person, too educated I would say which is a problem as well in this situation, he is a professor in human sciences. He has a good opinion about himself, and he does not feel much guilty now, because he thinks that he said my mother many times to change (her weight, her look, and eveyhting else he was not liking and being content) and since she didn't change, he went to another woman. But he does not realize that the way he was asking her to do this was always offending and disrespectful. And I cannot change his mind about that right now. When my uncle dicorced, my father told us that if my uncle and my aunt had problems, they should have tried to solve them, and then only after my uncle put all his efforts in solving the marital problems and it didn't work out, only then he could have filed for divorce and then later he could find maybe another woman. But not to have affair and then divorce. These were the words of my father! And now he is doing the same... And he saw how much pain and disaster my uncle's affair and divorce caused to his family and children...

Also, my father is very difficult to talk to, because he thinks that psychologysts are not worth reading, he does not like them, and I am very much ashamed of his thinking. I don't agree, I told him that in every discipline there are wonderful and clever people. He said that maybe there are 5% which are good. I am trying to convince him now that the books I am reading are from these 5% good psychologysts. Anyways, he is hard to talk to because he has an "answer" to every question, that's why I said he is too "educated". But I still love him... He is still wonderful in so many other things. And I am sure that they can live happily with my mother again, as soon as they decide to work on the problems in their marriage.

One of the biggest problems is also that he thinks that nothing can change - that he cannot fall in love with my mom as before, and that's why he does not want to go back with her. He also thinks that love is something very rare and special and since he found it in this other woman, he should not lose it. He also thinks that what is happening to him is very rare, because he is in general a good and moral person, and it just "happened" to him. If it happened and he feels so wonderful, he thinks, then for him it means that it is meant to be... These are all his words, when I last talked to him last month in September (unfortunately, I live far away from home, and we cannot talk in person so often). In my opinion, he is exactly what Dr. Harley describes, in every single aspect. And his relationship with this other woman is both emotional and sexual and that's why so hard to deal with.


Anyways. I wanted to give you more or less the whole picture. He really wants to file for divorce during this month (he even said in one-two weeks), because he wants to marry this other woman. And apparantely this other woman is pushing him, because she does not feel happy that he is still married to my mother. My mother wants to restore their marriage, but she said that she will give him divorce, because he does not want to try to work on their marriage, he is very determined, and it is impossible to live like that. Which is logical, I cannot say anything. But I am so sad and devastated, all our family is.

And I thought, as a last chance, that before the divorce happens, I really want my father to at least read the books by Dr. Harley. He even promised me, but as I told you he still hasn't done this, this is not a priority for him, he thinks that they will not help, and maybe he will read them, but after the divorce. My heart is not allowing me not to share my knowledge with him, which I gained from these books. He loves me, we still talk friendly, and I think that before the divorce I will go home and read the books together with him. This will be my last wish as a daughter, and I am pretty sure that he will agree to read them with me.

But my questions to you is: do you think it will help? Do you think that he can wake up, change his mind? Being already so determined to divorce and be with this other woman, can the books help? By reading the books of Dr. Harley I could not find an answer how to cope with a spouse who really does not want to come back to his family - the case of my father. In most of the stories Dr. Harley describes, he writes that even though the addiction to the lover is so big, the wayward spouse still feels guilt and questions whether it is good to leave the family. My father, on the contrary, is very determined - he still feels sorry about what what he is causing us, because he is a good person, but this cannot measure up with what he feels for this other woman - he just wants to be with her, which means leaving us, and that's it. He even told me that he is ready for the price, which can go with leaving his family. Whatever the price is. He says he will always be our father, love us and support us, and he will always help my mother if necessary, but I cannot convince him that there will be emotional estrangement anyways with this decision, especially on our side, and it will never be the same. I told him that when time passes, he will feel lots of guilt and that all this love euphoria with this woman might become less strong, and that he is most probably not ready for the price as he says... But nothing helps. It is as if I am talking to a stone.

So, can I still do something? I will definitely convince him to read the books, we will read them together and I am sure he cannot refuse me this. But do you think this will help? Do you think I can do something else? If you have any more questions about the state of the things and what happened, so that you understand better, please let me know.

Thank you so much in advance!

Your Dad/WH needs to read Surviving An Affair not His Needs Her Needs.

Though the real issue is you need to have Surviving An Affair in your mom's hands today. Then you need to support your mom to expose this affair fully which must include a work exposure. And, do not warn her WH that you are going to do an exposure, or threaten the WH to end this affair or I will expose for threats never help and then warns the AP's to take steps to counter the exposure.

Even more important you need to get your mom on this site and vet's will lead her through the steps to fight this affair.

Hi gemm, that post is so long that most people won't have time to read it, but I did skip to the end and read this paragraph. No, it will not help your dad to read SAA. The problem is not his education about adultery, he already knew it was wrong. He changed his belief system to accommodate his addiction. YEs, he is addicted to the OW. That is the powerful motivator that has caused him to change his beliefs. So showing him the book would be like showing the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book to a falling down drunk. It means nothing.

What you can do is bring your mother here so we can help her save her marriage. Her actions of being "friends" with him and offering him fake forgiveness only serve to enable him. Her behavior of acceptance harms her, your father and their marriage. It is not a virtue to sit by and do nothing while your father engages in destructive, life wrecking behavior. Going along with this horrible behavior is not a virtue. His life and your mother's will be wrecked.

If your father was drunk driving and you and your mother were in the back seat, should she try to be "friends" and "forgive" him or should she try and stop the car, get out and help him sober up?

But it doesn't have to be like that. There are things we can do to help your mother bust up the affair. It might be too late but it is worth a try if she will stop being an enabler.

In the meantime, stop trying to reason with your father [like trying to reason with a falling down drunk] and instead tell him how sickened and disappointed you are with him. Call the OW and ask her to buzz off. Tell her you will never allow her to darken your doorstep. Commit to never having anything to do with her, because that will endorse their affair. That will cause trouble in the affair. Most children never accept adultery partners because of the role they played in wrecking their families.

Also, your fathers affair with this woman is very unlikely to last. 95% of affairs fall apart in under 2 years. All of the traits that made the affair possible, deceit, dishonesty and selfishness eventually poison the affair and it falls apart. Just think, the OW will never be able to trust your father behind her back. And he will never be able to trust her because she has no respect for marriage.

Listen to these radio clips and send them to your mother:

affairages <-----send this one to your father too

Radio Clip about inappropriate forgiveness: here

Welcome to MB. Good for you for being opposed to the way your father is destroying his marriage and family.

Give your mother a copy of SAA. And also encourage her to post here. If she truly is interested in recovering her marriage, MB offers the single greatest plan to do that. Right now she is making some critical mistakes, we can guide her down a better path that will not only increase her chances of recovery, but also help her maintain physical and emotional well being during this very painful abuse your father is inflicting on her.

Meanwhile, make sure your father knows at every turn that you are completely opposed to this affair. Tell him how devastated it has made you. Tell him how disappointed you are by his IMMORAL actions, after he spent years teaching you how to be moral. Tell him that under no circumstances will you ever accept his OW as a part of your family.

Also, contact OW and tell her all of the same. Tell her she has devastated your mother, yourself and your family. Tell her that you will never ever accept her as a part of your family.

You don't have to support immoral behavior just because he is your dad or because you love him. In fact, it is actually a much more loving action to take a stance against his destructive and immoral lifestyle. Just as if he were doing drugs and destroying his life, you would not pretend that was OK or borrow him money to buy more drugs. Instead you would do everything in your power to stop him from destroying his life, because you love him! This is the same thing. He is in an 'affair fog' because he is addicted to the OW. He is not thinking clearly and he is destroying his life. It is the loving thing to do to combat that at every turn, with your disapproval and by not accepting it as the new norm.

Yes, there is stuff you can do. Tell everyone the truth of your father's affair. Expose him far and wide. Don't let him construct some kind alternative-reality story for what he is doing. Make sure everyone knows the truth. He needs to be held accountable for his adultery. Affairs are fantasy addictions. Reality spoils them. Don't expect him to be rational about this. He is an addict, and addicts do crazy and uncharacteristic things to support their addictions.

You can't educate an active wayward about affairs. He's just appeasing you while hoping to maintain good relations with you while he destroys his family.

You can always change your mind much later down the road but I'd suggest you take MelodyLane's advice....send mom here AND tell you father that not only will the OW not be welcome at your home but that you need to cut off contact with him as well and fully support your mother emotionally. You aren't minor children that shouldn't pick sides....pick 'em and leave him with the choice of either his OW or his family (not just OW or your mom). As the affair takes on a whole new burden and OW has to not only replace his wife but his children too...it won't be nearly as easy breezy for them. It will help facilitate the end of this delusional relationship and ONCE IT'S OVER you can then go to work on helping and supporting BOTH of you parents restore their marriage and your family.

It would be great if you sibling joined you in this effort to SAVE YOUR FATHER (this is NOT vindictive punishment - you are seeking to literally save his eternal soul).


Waywards have this fantasy that everyone is going to be happy for them ---that this looooovvvvveeee is so special that certainly everyone must see it and bow down to it. That eventually people get on with life and everyone will remain just as close as they were before only with this new awesome bonus person (the OW) in the mix. The sooner you squash that fantasy...the sooner reality will set in - Reality always catches up to waywards but when everyone tip toe's around the wayward and appeasing them because they are scared that they too, might render themselves disposable to dad (just like mom) it just takes a lot longer. Study up on intervention technique that are used on addicts and you and your brother can basically have one with your dad. Instead of choose treatment or we won't have anything to do with you ....it's leave OW, commit to fixing your REAL marriage or we won't have anything to do with you.


*I want to repeat this....in two years or so, if they do end up divorced and he ends up with OW you can always change your mind. I'm not suggesting you have to give him up forever (take not that less than 3% of affairs actually result in affairages that last more than 5 years and event the ones that make it are miserable marriages of distrust, discord and misery) so it's not very likely that you'll have to endure this affair forever anyway; but, he should be given the impression that you're done with him in no uncertain terms until the affair is over. Also - don't be shocked that he (hopefully initially) picks her over you, your brother and your mom. The PEA chemicals in his brain released by a secret adulterous affair are overwhelming. Not only does he THINK she is the love of his life but also that he has found the fountain of youth. It will take some time and fortitude before he realizes you were serious. Remember...he's living in a fantasy world so what you say gets filtered by his waywardism. He'll just think... - "they're just hurt for their mother but I'm sure they will come around".

Yes.

Expanding on that - I get the feeling that maybe the OW works with your dad in some capacity.

Do they work together?

Is Dad tenured?

Is OW tenured?

As I'm sure you read, in order to save his marriage with your mom - he and the OW must establish "no contact for life". That will get complicated if they are both tenured professors.

Are their policies at the university regarding workplace relations (probably not...the teaching profession is rife with infidelity

There is generally an anti-fraternization policy at most uiversities but HR can't do anything if the activity isn't reported officially. So report him. You can probably even do it anonymously if you like.

It is unlikely that a 32-year-old is a full professor, which does represent a sexual harrassment issue for the university.

Especially as other young academics may be overlooked for advancement in favor of a long-term faculty member's mistress. There are people at the university who know and are angered but likely fear retaliation should they report the unethical activities

Thank you, eveyone, for the replies! Thanks a lot.

I am sorry for the very long post. I just wanted to depict the whole situation so that you have a better idea of my problem.

My father does know that we do not want to have anything to do with that other woman. I have told him many times how hurt I am. Apart from trying to talk to him, to explain, to "wake" him up with dicussions and explanation (which did not help), I have also expressed my feelings very sharply and angrily. The same has done my brother and my grandmother. This didn't help.

I see what you mean about the books. Maybe it will not help either... I really thought it might help... I thought he doesn't want to listen to his little daughter, but when he read the words from a professional, it will help.

This other woman works at another university, another country. But this doesn't make it easier. They are seeing each other every months, sometimes for two weeks and more in the month. I did wrote to her. At one point I realised that she did not know at all that we are suffering. As if my father left his wife long ago. Which is totally not the case. I wrote her politely but firmly, without affending her, that this relationship causes us lots of pain. I wrote her that she might be a good person in general, but what she is doing is not good because we suffer from this, because my father IS married. I never received an answer from her, but I saw the actions - my father was mad at me that I wrote her. And she started visiting him non-stop, she stayed several times almost the whole month, without even telling him that she is coming. She felt threatened. And my father is doing everything she wants... basically, everything so that their relationship continues to be.

I don't know. It seems a bit hopeless. He really wants do divorce in the next few weeks. Unfortunately, I cannot bring my mother here, because she does not speak English... We are from Bulgaria. My father, however does speak, and that's why I was relying so much on the books.

Anyways, thank you very much for all your suggestions and comments. Maybe I will still try to give him the books... I don't know what else can I do. It is exposed, he knows how we feels about everything. About the behaviour of mu mom - she chose it to behave this way. But she is sincere. She is hurt, but she still loves him. When I wrote that she is ready to forgive him (or she already did), I meant she really did it, with all her heart and thought. It was not fake. She told me that does not want to feel harted and bitterness, because this hurts her even more. She caught for whatever feeling of love and positivity there was inside her, and really decided to stick to this positivity. She started doing yoga, she started guitar lessons, she put off 5-6 kilos, which is a lot for her, because she is rather small.

Also, I read here an article that in this sitatuon - exactly the same scenario of my father's affair - what she does is close to what she needs to do in order to have a chance to save her marriage. She did this on her own, and I was amazed to read that her behaviour might actually be not so wrong. Whether it is really the right thing to do, I don't know. But from my own experience it is also hard for me to advise her how to act. Here is this article:

*edit*

Basically, thsi article says that: "Dealing with a man who wants to leave is different from dealing with a man who has been caught and doesn�t want to leave." And this is really what I see from my father's actions.

Thank you once again for all the help.

***EDIT***

OMG... not Coach Jack Ito aka John Ito aka John Martin again.

He's a "coach" because he married a Japanese woman and took her last name and move to Japan. He's only been married a few years - hardly a marriage expert. Now, because he's in Japan he has to "practice" counseling on the internet versus a tiny little general counseling practice in Pennsylvania. Unlike some of the internet psuedo-experts like Mort Fertel, at least this one has a counseling degree but his ideas and writings are still very immature and underdeveloped. He really needs to research more before putting these contrived unsupported ideas out there.

He advises women in your mother's situations to maintain contact under the notion that they can somehow reconnect with their wayward husband's as long as they maintain some, even minimal contact with them. No contact means losing them (even if it's soul destroying and enabling). Interestingly, he throws up his hands and declares it over if the wayward husband has already moved in, living with the OW and/or committed to marrying her. It's no wonder he lacks success reconciling marriages in such state when he promotes a plan of appeasement.

Your dad has to lose everything and then you all just sit back and let the OW TRY to fill all his emotional needs. After your letters....see how she had to step up her game??? Double down. It may FEEL like you are pushing them together. That they are becoming them against the world...but that gets old and boring really quick.

Stay away from guys like coach Jack Ito. He is just another self declared internet marriage and infidelity expert desperately trying to make a name for himself in the online infidelity help arena (where the most desperate people can be found to buy anything that sounds like it might fix their situation). These psuedo-experts specialize is being the honey that eases their customers minds that doing what they are doing is OK when it's not. Your mom can't nice her husband back to her. It's OK for about a month but then she needs to close the door, hope he ends the afffair and comes home or start processing and recovering by rebuilding her own life without him. Maintaining contact with him is just a slow torture that hurts your mom and lessens her chance of recovery.

Is OW married?

Thank you, MrWondering. I also noticed that internet is full of many people trying to advise on these issues. Sometimes it seems a bit difficult whom to trust. After I read few articles from Dr. Harley, I continued reading the rest of his work, because his approach seems intuitively for me the most healthy and better explaining what's happening. Yet, the article by Jack Ito fits the description of my mom and dad's situation, and that's why it caught my eye. But thanks for the advice.
I am a bit lost, because I tried all types of behaviour, and nothing seems to work. By being firm and reserved, he goes away. By being nice, it is a torture for me, and still doesn't help. My mom is good and at the same time sometimes firm to him. She is definitely not hostile. He once said that thanks to her behavior they are still on good terms. He told me if she was as demanding and trying to "put him in the right way" as I am, then he would not be talking to her at all. So, I don't know anymore... But I agree that right now he still cannot feel our loss.
But at the end everything depends on him, it looks like it, no? Because in the stories by Dr. Harley the wayward spouse feels a bit of guilt and the main thing - he/she is questioning whether leaving his/her family is a good thing. In my father's case - he feels sorry for us, but he definitely wants to leave - he is not hesitating. Maybe a bit in the beginning (at least he was saying this), but not anymore. Is there a way to make him question? Being already in this state? Thank you.

BrainHurts, no, she is not married. She was single when they met.

Who on OW's side has this been exposed to?

I think it is exposed to many people on her side - many friends know, her mother knows - I know this from her profile on facebook. She even tagged my father that she is in a relationship with him. So, it is not a hidden affair. Also, at work my father has "friends" who support him. I call them friends, because these are new colleagues (from the last few years), whom I have never met. But I know about several of his older colleagues, who know our family, and who have been good friends of ours, and they were in shock. One of them doesn't even talk with him because of what he does. But this seems not to matter to him.. He finds in his new friends "support" and this is enought for him..

But what is wrong with this? Most waywards do go away unless folks are enabling them, so this is not unexpected. Is it your goal to be an enabler? The goal here to save the marriage, not to enable him so he will allow you to hang around.


She should not be speaking to him, though. by allowing an abusive, thoughtless husband to stay in touch with her, it makes her look unattractive and only erodes her mental and physical health. It is harmful for her to stay in touch with him.


The way you motivate him to end his affair is to expose his affair and apply as much pressure as possible to he and the OW. In the meantime, your mother should not be in touch with him.

The truth has not been exposed. I seriously doubt any of these people know or understand that this is a married man committing adultery.

The story they were told is something like:

Joe is finalizing a divorce from his cruel and abusive wife after years of being separated. OR Joe's wife ran off for her affair partner and is divorcing Joe. His divorce is almost final so we have begun a new relationship. She was mean and cruel to him for years and he is finally rid of her.

When the true story is: Joe abandoned his loving wife of 35 years so he could have an affair with skanky hoe.


Sure, maybe he has "friends" who endorse adultery, but it is unlikely they know the truth.

This is why it is so critical for your mother and yourself to expose the affair. When we say "expose" we don't mean the lies spread by lying cheaters.

Thank you, MelodyLane. I/we really don't want to enable her or him to continue with this. But the problem is that I don't know how to behave so that all this stops. I will take your suggestion that my mom does not talk to him. Indeed, we can wait and their relationship can die.. But in the meantime it is very probable that he divorces, they marry, and I will not be surprised if they have a child.. My father told us he wants to marry her and she wants too. I am looking for ways to prevent all this before happening.. We will be so estranged by then... And if my mom wants to work on their marriage problems now, I am not sure if she will wants this later. And it will be logical not to.

Without waiting for so long, is there a way to "wake" him up now? Right now? I know it is an addiction... but really no known way that his brain tells him it is all not reality? It seems like these situations, when the wayward spouse does not want to come back, are solved only by wayting the affair to die...

Exposure is your best chance of waking him up. When do you plan to do a proper exposure on his and her side?

The best way to wake him up is with exposure. Exposure ruins affairs. So if it isn't killed right away, it will certainly hasten its death. Your mother CAN'T work on the marriage now anyway because he is in an affair. There is nothing she can do other than a wide spread exposure followed by a pitch dark separation.

Thank you, MelodyLane! I got it now! Indeed, it is exposed, but all these people don't know how much pain this is causing us, what our family actually is, and how everything started - by a real affair. I see the point, and I see now what "exposure" really means. It will be hard - because my father and the woman will continue defending their story... They might not even care, as long as there are people who support them. But at one point maybe they will feel uncomportable.

I would suggest you continue writing letters to OW. Or emails, Facebook, texts, whatever. Continue to tell her how she is helping your father destroy his life. Do not tell her she is a nice person, because right now she is not acting like it. Tell her she is causing a lot of innocent people harm and is behaving very cruel. Tell her you will never allow such a cruel selfish person in your life or that of your family. Tell her she will be loathed by your family for the rest of your life as the person who selfishly destroyed it.

Seems like your first letter struck a nerve with her, yea? So write a few more. Tell your brother and grandmother to do the same.

Even if you never hear back from her, what this does is cause trouble in paradise. She will call you dad upset about everyone disliking her. She will feel threatened and get needy and whiney. Not very fun to be around.

Go read the thread linked in my signature. That will give you the best plan for exposure. When you ask people for support, they are more inclined to help you out.

Thank you. My inner voice is telling that I should do this. Because since this happened, every day I feel bad. While she is having good time with my father, I am in pain. And she really NEEDS to know this, and she should be reminded by this. That's why I wrote her.

I want to contact her again. At the same time I feel a bit afraid, because I am sure that my father will be mad at me, and he can even stop having contact with me. After I wrote this woman, he didn't contact me for a month. And it is not that I need him to contact me, I can be in cold terms with him now - my fear is that if we are not in contact, I cannot influence him in some positive way somehow. Some of my friends said that while he is on good terms with us, he will miss us more when he separate from us, and this eventually can turn him back towards us. And actually the fact that he got mad at me, speeded up his decision to get divorce. My action made this other woman unhappy, she became demanding from my father, and in order to calm her down, he was ready on everything, including speeding the divorce decision.

So, this is what I am afraid of. I see that by not being harsh with him it doesn't help much, so my friends might be incorrect, but at the same time when I am harsh and I act, then it seems that I put him faster into her arms.

The best way to influence your father is to bring pressure on the affair. Expose the affair wide and far. Send the OW an email and tell her she will be never be welcome in your family. Contact her friends and family and ask them to tell her to leave your married father alone.

The best thing you can do is cause as much trouble in the affair as possible. If the affairees are not angry at you and your mother for interfering in their affair, then you are not doing an effective job of causing conflict. The more angry, the more effective.


The more upset the OW is, the more your dad has to listen to her scream. The more she screams, the more unpleasant the affair. The more she screams and demands, the sooner your father will sicken of her. <----that is your goal!!

She need to be told in no uncertain terms that she will never be allowed to darken your doorstep and that your father will be forced to choose between his family and his stinky affair.


He is already "in her arms." That is why you are here today.

He is already planning to leave your family for her. So you really have nothing to lose.

Nobody here cares a bit about making your father angry. Because the advice given is to have the best chance possible to kill the affair, not to keep your father happy. Of course it makes him happy when everyone enables him and lets him selfishly behave any way he wants to.

The angrier your father and OW become because of your exposure is a good thing. That means you sent a direct hit to the affair. And the more OW whines and cries to him about his family will cause problems in affair land.

Thanks a lot once again for all comments and suggestions.

I see the points and I got to know what exposure really means.
Indeed, many people know, but it is not clear what they really know..
Actually, I know that some of our relatives and close friends know, too, but they do not act in any way towards my father. They support emotionally my mother, but they do not say anything to my father. And I mean really close friends and relatives. Only my brother, my grandmothers (both my mom's and my dad's mothers) and me told him seriously and angrily that this is not right. But noone else is saying anything bad to my father, even if they think so. I know only of one old colleague, a very good person and family friend, who did this.
I think one reason for this is that in my culture (unfortunately), people do not say directly to a non-nuclear family member that something he did is wrong, especially if it is a personal matter. And marriage and affairs are treated exactly as such issues, with which only the nuclear family "has the right" to deal with. It is sad... Yes, they are all shocked by the affair, but they say it is a family business. Or maybe they think that they cannot change anything. People believe that marriage is just between the two spouses and if there are problems, they should be solved just by the two of them. The same is about the affairs. I am amazed by the exposure plan, which you describe. I think noone here will do it! But think it is a great idea. And maybe I will indeed do it. Unfortunately, I am not sure that any of these close friends and relatives (not nuclear ones) will tell anything to my father even after that. But at least he might feel uncomfortable. Many people support the idea that we live in a free world, and that we should not mix in the lives of other people - they are free people to do whatever they want. They would say they don't know the problems of my parents, and they should not mix..
Also, when they hear that I am writing to the other woman, they will say that I lose my dignity, that I should not judge my father, that affairs happen everywhere... It is horrible, even my mom is against me writing to this woman. I did it anyways. I am so sad about how people think. And at the end, what do we gain? Divorce after divorce.. My mom and my closest friends and family (not nuclear) are telling me that nothing can be done, and that I should accept it.. We should not worry, we should look philosophically and let it go! This is the common attitude, and words I have heard, even from my mom. I think it comes from the religion also, which says that noone can judge the other person apart from God. But how can this be true in this case? It is said that affair is a sin, right? But now we live in a "free" world. I am so sick with this attitude, because it does not help. I so much feel that I/we need to fight.

That's why I don't count much on other people... I also do not have access to the contact of that other woman, so it will be a bit difficult to expose her to her friends. But maybe there is a way.

And thank you for making me feel not afraid of my father's anger. Let him be angry, let him stop contact with me. I want him either with us, or not at all like that right now. I don't say I will stop contact forever, who knows, but it is just impossible for me to pretend that it just happened, to smile with a pain, to accept and leave it like this.. We have nothing to lose anymore. If by telling the truth and exposing our pain to everyone will shutter their illusion even a bit and make them feel uncomfortable, it will be an achievement.

Thank you all!!

You said OW is on Facebook, correct? Go and copy all of her contacts to a word document and save it for exposure.

Thank you, BrainHurts. Unfortunately, she has made her contacts private, I cannot see them.

I understand completely. American culture is just the same. But people are more willing to say something if you ask them to use their influence to persuade your father to end his affair. Sure, some will not get involved regardless, but if you and your mother ask them for support, they are much more inclined to help.

And even if they won't say anything, just having them know will put pressure on the affair. Some folks will give moral support in other ways and that is just fine.


Keep in mind that the goal here is to run off the OW and cause as much pressure as possible in the affair. It is not for the purpose of garnering public approval. You can't expect everyone to approve of your plans and that is ok!! That is not your goal. Your goal is cause conflict in the affair.


Don't let this concern you. Keep in mind that none of them know how to save marriages. They do have a lot of advice and that is nice, but they have no experience. God DOES NOT say to sit silent and allow evil to prevail. As Christians we are called to expose evil and judge right from wrong. Our prisons are full of people who cannot judge right from wrong and that is right where they belong.

Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.


Does she have a Facebook page? Can you find her parents?

You are a good daughter, Gemm!!

Why don't you send a friend request to her?

Get creative. You are trying to disrupt the affair however you can. You could even be as creative as picketing his workplace or hers.

Waywards love to ACT like a bunch of friends are supportive of them...but, in reality, friends that try to say anything are shunned and others are ignored. Waywards tend to isolate themselves. They run from healthy people and run to other waywards (the world is full of sin loving folk) for any support.

Thank you, I will think how to expose it. For now I think the best and fastest is to call/write to our family friends and some good colleagues I know. But should I also write to those colleagues, who I know support him? I am sure non of them knows the story as it looks from our eyes, and in this respect maybe they can "wake up" as well. At the same time, they might become even more supportive. Do you think I should right them too?

There are several things about which, I guess, I will be "attacked" after doing this - definitely by my father (because he told me these things before), and also by other people, even my mom. In this situation I don't care what people would think, because deep down I believe that I have right to do this. But I also need to be strong enough with my arguments to answer back. I need this for myself because sometimes (maybe because of the way I have been brought up) I am also questioning if what I do is right. Here are the things, which I have already been opposed, and which make me question:

1.) People tell me that my father's life is his own, and I can express what I feel, but don't fight, don't be demanding and aggressive towards him by wanting to leave this other woman. Both my parents support this idea in general, and my aunt too. They say if something is to be changed, it should be done in a good peaceful way. They say we are just people and we cannot judge other people. They don't approve his actions, but they they think they have no right to fight against his own wishes. I know I am human, and I can do mistakes, too. And the bigger part of me sees my father's affair as not right and wants to fight it, the other part is weakened by these comments whether I have indeed, as a human, the right to judge other people and tell them what is right (including my father). I am pretty sure, it is all clear for you, but maybe my self-confidence about this issue is not yet so high, and I am really interesting what you think about this.

2.) Similar to 1.) people tell me (also my mom, aunt, father) to not put too much energy anymore, because only my mother and father can solve this, and that I did more than enough. They say I am crossing the borders by continue being insisting on him to end the affair. They don't approve why after having said everything I think to my father, I just don't accept this and calm down. There have been 5 months already.

3.) My father told me that love is something very special and I don't have right to destroy his new love. He says his love with my mom is gone, and he believes it cannot be back. And since he found new love, he wants to keep it. He thinks that what he does is very rare, because in general he is a good and moral person, and affairs usually happen to other people. I have read the books, I know how confused he is about these things. My question is: should I continue telling him these things, or there is no sense anymore?

Thank you!

This is a good idea. And it is not just seeing the situation "from your eyes" it is a matter of seeing the truth. Your goal is to give them facts they likely do not have. The truth is not based on a specific perspective, but on reality. You are telling them the reality.


Just explain that you are simply spreading the good news. Is there something wrong with spreading the good news? Are they saying there is something wrong with adultery?

You can also explain that just, good people don't enable others in destructive behavior. If your father was addicted to heroin and living on the street you would not sit by idly and do nothing. What if he was a falling down drunk who wanted to drive a car? Would you also make excuses to do nothing? Of course not. Decent people do not enable their family and friends when they are engaging in destructive behavior. Your fathers affair is the biggest mistake of his life. It will wreck his marriage and his relationship with his children, for a sleazy affair that will not last.


Just tell him that his love with the OW won't last and that he can have the same feelings for your mother again if he goes through a marriage recovery program. Wouldn't the ideal situation for him to be in love with his wife?

One of the most critical exposures will be to the OW's family. They need to know she is a home wrecker who won't be accepted into your family. After you are done, I would tell the OW that there is no future in her affair with your father because she will be eternally hated by your family for her part in wrecking your family.

You can send a friend request to the OW, make a copy of her friends list and expose using that. She will surely unfriend you when you start exposing, but you will have achieved your goal.

I know you were worried that this would push them together closer, but what it will do is cause major conflict in their affair. The OW will be squealing like a stuck pig and she will be squealing about HIS DAUGHTER. Once his anger blows over about exposure - and it will - she will still be griping about you and he will get very defensive! Fights about kids in such relationships are LEGENDARY!! They have broken up many relationships.

OK, I will not be much afraid of this anymore.

Because every situation is different - one questions still comes to my mind: do you think that after I contribute to the fall of the relationship, my father can be extremely hostile towards me (mainly) and our family (as a whole)? Being so angry that I/we have caused his new love disappear, that he will not want to come back to us.

I am writing this because after I wrote to this other woman, he was so angry and he told me that he will never allow me to spoil his new relationship in this way, and he wanted me to know that even if this new relationship fails, he will not come back to my mother. He said he does not want to, he hates everything, and he will be alone anyways, and he will find later someone else.

He said this in a very angry mood - I told you that in general, when he is not happy about something, he has huge angry outburts (verbal). So, I don't know whether to give his statements some truth. Are there such cases, when the man who really wants to leave the family (or shows all these indications) actually leaves the family even if the affair breaks? My father's situation is such that, as I wrote you, he justifies his actions, he doesn't feel much guilt, and he will feel that it is totally not right for me to mess up with his new life --> he might become hostile.

I will be prepared for everything. I guess, you will not know for sure either, but what is your opinion about it?

Thanks you.

Read this from Dr Harley's exposure thread:

here


All waywards are furious about exposure. This is due to the fog. It would be like a falling down drunk threatening to disown you if you take away their booze. Do you take them seriously while they are drunk?

Change that to: he WILL become hostile. Just expect it. You are bringing a crowd of onlookers into the crack house to watch the crackheads get high. They are going to be FURIOUS!!! Just expect it. But once the high of the crack wears off, so will his anger. Anger over exposure is a sign of the fog.

The only way you can avoid his wrath is to become an enabler like your mother. And marriages cannot be saved by enabling.

It is truly sad that your mother has chosen to enable him. Can you persuade her to step up here and do something to help herself?

Yes, I will talk to her.
She is not happy with the situation, but she is so much convinced that one cannot empose his/her opinion on others (in our case to change my father's curretn attitude), she feels she has not the right to do this. Especially, when we talk about love - she thinks that this is a very special unique feeling, which just happens.. and we cannot/should not touch it. She bilieved that she can influence my father by working on herself and improving herself, and being nice, so that he wants more to come back to her/us.
So sad that the books are not translated in our language..
Anyways, I will talk to her more. And it is clear that her way doesn't work - she could not win my father back.
Until this moment I thought I also have guilt that we cannot win my father back, because I thought I have interfered with her strategy - by writing this other woman and by making my father angry and demanding that he stops his affair, I thought I pushed him even more away...
But it seems even without my actions, we could have been in the same situation now..

Your mother has a very passive outlook about her situation. Exposure most certainly does change people's attitudes about their affairs. It is the most potent weapon against an affair there is. Would she feel the same way if your father was hooked on heroin and living under a bridge? Would she throw up her hands and say she couldn't help him? Well, having an affair is just as destructive. And she is uniquely positioned to bring pressure to bear on his affair if she would only stop being an enabler.

Romantic love is not something that happens by magic fairy dust. We know exactly how it is created and can help your parents fall in love again.

Her being nice and trying to be attractive is good......but only for awhile. After a few weeks it only makes her look more unattractive because a woman competing for a man is a turn off to most men. It also makes her emotionally and physically sick to be competing for her own husband.

Your mother makes herself look more unattractive by hanging around making herself available as an option. She diminishes her value this way, making it less likely he will come back.

MelodyLane, does it make a difference if I, as a daughter, expose the affair? Is this less strong? I will talk to my mom, but I am not sure she will be so active. If I convince her just to support me in this endeavour, it will already be a success.
Will our friends help moere if my mom is talking to them about this?

It would be great if your mom could do this with your help. But if she won't, then just having her support will be sufficient. I am just concerned about her enabling. She is making the situation worse by going along with his destructive behavior. She doesn't help him and she doesn't help herself or her kids by aiding and abetting his destructive behavior. Wish you could get her to see that.

There is nothing dignified, caring or virtuous in sitting by doing nothing while your spouse destroys your marriage and his own life. Your dad is ruining his life and hers. Why enable such destructive behavior?

By going along with his affair, she gives the impression she is fine with it, which only emboldens your father in his destructive behavior. If she objected strenuously he would have second thoughts. But by going along with it, he has no reason to question his behavior.

And yes, he might be in "lurve" today, but he won't be soon when reality slams his affair. His affair is doomed because all the traits that made it possible will destroy his affair, deceit, dishonesty, selfishness and thoughtlessness. His OW will never be able to trust him out of her sight because she KNOWS he supports adultery. She also knows that he has pisspoor boundaries around women so their relationship will always be at risk. There is a very high likelihood he will cheat on her, because he believes in cheating. Someone better is bound to come along.

Thank you. And when I/we write to our friends, to my father's colleagues, and to OW's friends and colleagues, should we tell to him and to her immediately that we wrote to everybody? Or just leave it to the friends/colleagues to contact them (and eventually they will understand this way).

Just let the contact get in contact themselves. Later you can tell him to whom you exposed. But in the meantime, they can be left to wonder who knows!

I would have your mother read this thread so long as there is no chance that she will show it to your father. There are a lot of concepts here that may persuade her to take a different and less passive view of her husband's infidelity.

I think it's great if your mom gets involved and does this herself. She won't regret it. If and when she saves him from making the biggest mistake in her life HE will come to respect her for it and love that he had a woman capable and willing to lay it all out there and do what it takes to hold him accountable and, literally, save him.

If he doesn't respond and divorces her anyway....she'll be able to move on better knowing she did all she could to honor HER vows to "love, honor and CHERISH" him (trying to save someone is a loving act) and be able to move on without the torture of 3 months to 2 or 3 years of plan appeasement hoping he'll see her changes and change his mind OR waiting for the affair to die out a natural death. When someone insists on leaving you...you just have to let them go (while not in any way supporting or enabling such a destructive hurtful choice)

That being said. Asking your mother's involvement or support isn't a requirement or prerequisite to doing it. She MAY try to talk you out of it. Say you are causing unwanted or unneeded interference in HER relationship. That you have no right....etc. We call this betrayed spouse fog. Betrayed Spouse fog happens when the betrayed spouse BUYS that the affair is partly their fault, that they really weren't a great spouse and if they NOT just act better (and appease the wayward) he will eventually notice, tire of the OW and come home.

Just expose anyway. Your relationship with your father AND your mother can and will survive this anger at your interference. Sometimes, it even helps that, in this case, your mother can actually side with your father in their anger at you for upsetting the apple cart. They can commiserate together how YOU are being a problem and difficult child. Your mom will tell dad how she had nothing to do with the exposure and tried to talk you out of it. You actually give your mother plausible deniability which MAY, when the affair initially ends and he's still super upset at you for being part of the reason it ended, allow him to NOT blame your mother for the exposure and eventual demise of the marriage. He also might not play games with money and support if your mother seems to be going alone with the situation and upset with you for exposure. You MIGHT make a nice scapegoat which will be uncomfortable for you....but you've already proven yourself to be the only reasonable and objective person in this situation so whatever it takes.

All is fair in love and war. This is a war for your family. You just might save it....you might not...but the battle against evil will never be won if good people don't stand up for truth, light and right. When you grab a sword, grab your shield as well.

MrWondering, thank you also so much for the reply!

Yes, I will try to talk to my mom first, to explain her all these things, which we have been discussing here. I do not know if I will manage, because indeed she seems to be in the fog you mentioned - she indeed told me all these things before - that it is their relationship after all, that I should let everything the way it is, and let's wait for what will happen...

I myself have a zero tolerance to what is happening, and all these months I have been on a play with my natural instincts to fight against what happened, and the attitude of "let's be passive for good, we cannot do anything now". The problem has been basically, that during the first 2 months I expressed everything I felt and all my thought and beliefs in all possible ways to my father, and nothing changes. And that's why my mom wants me to stop, because I only make my father angry. And to be honest, I was indeed starting to think that I should not make him angry, becuase in this way I push him away from us, and he unites even more with the other woman. Because when I continue asking him to stop the affair (by good voice, by bad voice, by explaining and rationalizing), this all makes him angry and I think this makes him want not to be with us even more. He goes then to this other woman, who is only smiling and making him happy.. That's why I wasn't sure what to do anymore, and I so much needed an advice. Thank you all once again.

So, from everything I read, I should not be afraid of his angriness by my/our further actions, right? Not be afraid that it will push him even more away. Indeed, I should expect him be angry as MelodyLane wrote, too.




I just want to be sure I undertand this correctly: we should first fight, and then let the person go, if he so much insists. And how much is enough to fight? After we expose well the affair, and nothing happens, is this the final efforts we can do?

Thank you!

You can be available for him if he decides to end his affair but be very firm about having nothing to do with him and his OW. Being in contact with them is a grievous act against your mother. And I understand she wants to pretend it is all cool, but it is not and she knows this deep down.

But outside of that, there is nothing you can do.

ANNNNNDDDD...

I think that would include your mother IF she insists on being around him and trying to maintain contact with him.

I think you said your over seas....so I can't give the example of Thanksgiving but, perhaps Christmas works. Suppose Mom wants to have a family Christmas dinner hoping that by getting you all together she can help your dad mend fences with you kids and, she hopes, in turn he'll be appreciative of her efforts. Your mom might think this is also a way to interfere in the affair.

You have to refuse the invitation. Offer to spend time alone with mom but as far as you are concerned Dad is dead to you UNTIL he repents (changes his mind), ends his affair (no contact) and commits to working a marital recovery plan with you mom (that doesn't necessarily have to be successful...he just needs to go "no contact" and then TRY).

When mom and others try to tell you that you must forgive you can tell them you will forgive but forgiveness doesn't require reconciliation of the relationship.

If you have children....these choices apply to your children (minor children) too. You don't want your kids around wayward grandpa either. There are wayward forums out there on the internet with all kinds of messed up and delusional still wayward spouses. It's a destructive lifestyle that decent people should stand clear off.


Again...you can change your mind 2, 3 or 5 years down the road and maybe try to establish some relations with your father. This doesn't have to be forever. Usually, at the very most, it takes about 2 or 3 years for the regret to seep in....their marriage may be over and your mom thankful to be done with him and he'll just be a sad and pathetic shell of his former self that then finally wakes up and realizes he messed up. Hopefully he'll wake up sooner thanks to your efforts.

If you want to find out her FB friends, you can still see some of her photo's and postings. You can probably also see people who "like" photo's and posts. These are some of her friends.

Among these friends are gamers, people who play candy crush and other stupid time consuming games. They friend anyone. Start playing candy crush, Friend some of those gamers and you will be able to see more of her activity on Facebook.

Use google. Search *site:facebook.com "name of skank"*. You will find more of her postings on posts of friends. Search also for images. A lot of the small images you find are avatars of friends (also people sesponding to the same posts as skankho). That's how you find out who her FB friends are.

Good luck.

Thanks a lot!
She has blocked me completely - I could not see her profile at all. But I created another account on facebook, and in this way I can see her profile. I still cannot see her friends, but I do see her activity, and her friends' "likes" and comments. So I can have a list of (if not all) at least some of her most active friends on facebook.

I don't like this spying job... it takes so much of my time and health... How nice it would have been if this did not happen at all.. But there is no other way. Despite all these nerves and sleepless nights, I am really determine that we tell eveyone the truth, our story through our eyes. We deserve that everyone knows the facts. And hopefully this will lift the fog of my father. It is not fair otherwise. It will hurt anyways always, and in this way there is a bit of chance that it changes. Thanks for the support. It means a lot to me.

Adultery is ugly, sorry you have to suffer. Your father doesn't realize he is not only betraying your mother, but his entire family.

Smart people block everybody on FB, dumb people just block you. I bet that if you friend some of her friends, you will be able to see even more content. (first friend some unrelated gamers with >500 friends, they accept anybody).

Update: Hello, I talked with my mother and my brother that exposing the affair could help, but to put it shortly: they don't agree much, to be honest - not at all.

My mom is sharing with some of our closest relatives and friends, which is good. Even today she spoke with one of them, who overcame the same thing, absolutely similar story, and who finally divorced her husband. She told her that she could not stop her husband from the afffair and the other woman, and she agreed to divorce, because he didn't change. My mom now is sharing with others more for support in order to know what to do next, because things are really goint to divorce, and how to proceed, and also to feel better, because they tell her their similar stories, and she sees that she is not alone.

But she does not think that telling everyone will help, and because of that she does not want to do it. She says that everyone will understand anyways, why do we need to bother to write and tell to people? And also she does not know what to tell them. As I said, for her it is useless just to inform them, as they will learn anyway, and everyone will know that they separated because of an affair. My father does not hide it either - everyone knows that he met this other woman while still officially married to my mother. But he does not feel much guilty, because they he says they had problems in marriage before, their love went away, and he now found another person to love. "His new love", as he says, and he is very determined to keep it. He also told me that he knows things between him and his lover may not go good eventually, but he is determined to try, and for this to happen he wants to divorce.

My mother talks to those to whom she think it can help her to overcome the separation easily, but not that they really can help her save her marriage. I think still that she will agree to tell to some other close friends, if I ask her, but she cannot ask them to tell my father something. She thinks it is totally up to him, and nobody can change his mind.

And she is ABOLUTELY against writing to the friends and colleagues of the other woman. She also asks me not to do it. She things it is useless, it will not help, and it will bring only badness, by totally spoiling the relationship with my father, because now at least they talk.

I also told her and my brother about the example if my father was really drunk and sitting in a car to drive, and if we were there we would not have allowed him, even if he was protesting. Because we would have known that he might get badly injured or even die. But I could not convince them with this. They still think it is a different situation, althought they said they see what I mean. But they maintain that it is up to him to change, and to do anything he wants with his life and relationship.

My mother just accepts what is happening and lets my father go away. She says she is OK with that. She has never been a pushy person, and neither is she now. She says she cannot do anything else, and let's just be it if he wants it this way.
She in general does not want to divorce him, but since he wants, it is OK for her. She told me that she will not communictae much with him after the divorce. And she says that since the are going to be separated anyways, why do they need to be married on paper. She even wants it, because she is convince that nothing can be done, and she cannot be married to a man who has a relationship with another woman. Well, here she is right. I am only so sad that she is so convicned that nothing else can be done. She does not believe in the exposure. And even if it will be sad, divorce here is not a very difficult thing. We don't have much property to divide, neither much money. She is OK with that. My brother is OK with that.

My brother also thinks that esposure will not help.

So, I think the divorce is almost there...

I still plan to do the following:

-- I told them that before they divorce, I want them (my father, my mother (I will help her with translation), and my brother) to read the 3 books: "His needs, her needs", "Fall in love, stay in love", and "Surviving an affair". I want them to read the first two, because they will get a better understanding of the whole idea, all the concepts, needs, love banks, why things go wrong, etc. I want them to really at least educate themselves. One important thing: I don't believe so much anymore that if my father, in this state now, reads the books, he will change. But I want him to read them anyways, because still something will remain in his head, and it can came to him later. And I do hope that at least my mother and my brother can understand something, and can be more supportive of all the things I am telling them, and why exposure can be good, etc.

-- I still plan to expose it myself to her friends and colleagues, even if my mother and brother do not agree. And also to friends and colleagues of my father. I really think that everyone deserves to here about the story from my eyes, as a daugher. I will tell them the facts - that it is an affair, it happened while my father has been married to my mom, and even if they separate, everyone should know what happened, and that we are in pain. The only thing for me which is difficult to decide now is when to do this. Because I really want my family to read the books, and if I expose before that, they will be all against me and neither of them will read the books. And subsequently, they will never understand why I did this (the exposure). I am not sure, if they will agree to expose even after they read the books, but at least I will be happy that they read them. While they read the books, I will prepare the letters, and as soon as they finish reading, I will send the emails. I know that according to the advices here, I should expose immediately. But in our situation, I think that it does not matter anymore if we postpone for a while (1-2 weeks) until everyone reads the books. I bought the three books alreadt for them in paper verson, they have all three books and they just need to read them now. Do you think it will be OK if I do it this way? Thank you!

No, expose now.your father is already spinning the story to make your Mom look like the bad guy. If she were my Mother, I would not allow such a thing.

Giving the books to your father is useless, he is an addict. This is not the father you knew, but an alien with your fathers appearance. Dr Harley once said in a radio show that you shouldn't give people advice they didn't ask for (context: wife asked if she should give cheating husband "Surviving an affair").

Your mom needs to read what Dr. Harley says. Worldlingo is a website to translate, if you copy the URL, it gives a rather OK translation of this site (ok in my language, hope it works just as well in yours). That way, you can let your mother read relevant pages of this website.

What about plan B for your mom? Her talking with your father and agreeing to a divorce, enables the affair. You want to kill the affair, plan B might help.

Normally, the betrayed spouse exposes and asks the people she exposes to, to help restore marriage or help stop the ongoing hurt caused by the affair. You can point out how the affair hurts your family. Yes, exposure will cause anger with your dad, but that is good. It causes trouble in paradise, he and his affair partner will have to deal with problems instead of pure romantic bliss. This will speed up the downfall of the affair. You want it to end before they get married. If your mother fights the affair, later in life she won't look back with regret, even if she and your father divorce. I hope your brother and mother will understand the positive effects of exposure outweigh the negative.

Dr. Harley's plan to survive an affair is the best way to recover from an affair, wether the marriage is restored or not. No contact between your father and mother will spare your mom from pain. Every time she is reminded of the affair, it hurts her. About exposure - the sooner the affair is killed, the beter. If your father marries this woman, it will last longer and hurt your family more. If noone supports the affair, it will crumble faster. Most other plans to overcome an affair don't take the amount of damage to the betrayed spouse into account. The more damage done, the longer it takes to recover.

It matters a great deal if you postpone exposure. You don't want to wait untill a babyhalf-brother or -sister is on the way. The longer you wait, the stronger the affair gets and the more damage will be done.

Read stories on this forum. I have never read of a betrayed spouse that wished they exposed later. I read a lot of betrayed spouses that regretted not having exposed the very minute they discovered the affair.

Exposing seems counter intuitive, because you don't want everybody to know your personal problems. Once your brain takes over, you know you've got to act.

Thank you very much! So, according to you it is better not to wait even for my mother and my brother to understand why I want to do the exposure, but just to do it, isn't it?

My problem now, right at this stage, is that if I do the exposure, right on this day or tomorrow, I will not only have an angry and furious at me father, but also an angry and furious at me mother and brother. I don't mind everybody being furious at me. Let them hate me, I will do it for good. But what I am afraid of is that they will never understand why I am doing this.Now they barely understand what I am trying to explain, and after that they will stop even talking to me. They think (and they are telling me right now) that I am crossing borders if I do it, that I behave like a child who has no idea about realism and life, that I mix up already too much, that I am basically crazy.

I can understand if this attitude comes from my father (becasue he is in a fog). But why does it come from my mother and my father as well?? They are not just advising me not to do it, they are really hostile towards me, they do not approve.. It is so hard... And with them now at least I talk. If I expose, I will not even be able to read to my mom some passages of Dr.Harley's books. They will all be mad at me and stop contact with me at least for a while, because they will think that I do not count their word, especially after they asked me not to expose. What should I do? Wait them to "wake up" or expose anyways? Is it worth if I lose them too?

I forgot to mention that my husband is also not very much supportive of what I am trying to do (exposing, etc.). He is also hurt by the situation, but he also thinks that I did everything, and it is time to just let it go. But he is not as negative as my mother and my brother. He is just nicely advising me to realx already..

OK, thank you. I think I will expose then as early as possible without waiting for them to read the book... I am just fighting with my feeling of justice on the one hand and my ununderstanding of why my mother, my brother and partly my husband do not approve of further actions and ask me to relax already...

For me it is so hard to accept that not only my father, but also they will be so ununderstanding and negative of my actions ...

I forgot also to say that my father is actually not talking bad words about my mother. He still feels sorry for her and he does not do it. In fact, if you see them together now talking, you cannot even imagine that they have a problem. Really..
My father told me that he still loves my mother, but as a sister... So, they are behaving like friends now.. And my mother does not talk bad of him now.. She disapproves of his affair, but she found somehow strenght in her to accept it..
If I make the expose now and make everyone furious, I will introduce lots of negativity and they will not talk like this anymore..
Or maybe this is exactly what they need..

Is it only me who is so sensitive? If it is OK for everyone on certain level to have the family broken, finding some philosophical reasons to move on, and actually moving on, maybe I should not fight so much? Maybe they will be OK? But my heart is telling me that they underestimate how they will feel after the divorce...

This is almost the absolute perfect scenario. If you expose, it will create great conflict in the affair. The OW will be squealing like a little pig while your mother sits there looking all calm and pretty. Your father won't be able to blame his wife, he will blame his daughter!

When you are done, you can contact your mother and brother and tell them where this advice comes from. Give them Dr Harley's article about exposure and just explain that this gives the marriage the best chance for survival. And even though your mother currently likes the path of enabling, I bet she will come to appreciate your exposure. Exposure will make her feel much better because she will get much more support from others.

Dr. Harley is a clinical psychologist and leading expert on saving marriages from infidelity. He calls exposure the most effective first step in achieving that goal: Exposure

You are getting excellent advice regarding your father's affair. However, your own marriage must come first. Are you and your husband on board with Marriage Builders? Is your husband willing to POJA your exposing your father's affair?

If your mom is still talking to your father while he's in the affair, she probably will still talk to you after you exposed.

Please read the exposure thread again how to do it best with maximum effect and minimal damage to yourself. You don't want to just expose, you also want people who have influence to use it on your father and the OW. Church, work, ethics. OW's grandma wouldn't like her granddaughter to wreck a marriage of a man old enough to be her father, would she?

Also, if your father wants the best for this wonderful OW, why won't he cut her loose so she can find the perfect unattached 30-something year old single guy who won't be in a wheelchair and in need of diaper change in 20 years?

Thank you, MelodyLane. I also feel that it will create a conflict in their affair. And the more I read I realise that this is a good thing to do. Only, apart from creating a great conflict in the affair, I feel also that I will create a great conflict in my whole family - because of my mother and brother current disapproval of exposing. Is this a problem? Because my mother will not be calm, she will also be furious and disappointe with me. But you are right, at least they will all blame me, and my father will not blame my mother...

I think in the end she will appreciate the exposure because exposure makes betrayed spouses feel like GREAT. Your mom is as fogged out as your father right now. BS's feel horrible suffering in silence.

And I seriously doubt anyone will stay mad at you. Just think, they were all so willing to sweep your fathers adultery under the rug. They can do the same with your exposure.

I predict that exposure will push your mother and father closer together and cause conflict in the affair.

Thank you for reminding me this. Basically, I should be sure that before doing the exposure I have his support, right? Otherwise, he will not be happy of what I did, and this will vreate a problem for us... I think that I can talk to him much easier than with my mother about this. He also started reading the materials of Dr.Harley, and he told me he likes them.

Gemm, hopefully you have your husbands support to do this. As far as using the POJA, it took my husband and I about 1.5 years to become skilled at using the POJA even AFTER we went through the Marriage Builders course so its not very realistic to think you would have this skill.

This only leads people to believe that your mother is fine with the affair...while inside she is devastated and bleeding from her heart.



Your father loves having TWO loving women meet his needs. It is a wayward's dream.



Telling the truth is never wrong.

I'm sorry you are going through this.

So agree with this. Your mother is enduring the most traumatic event of her life right now. She is weakened to her core by this affair so she is susceptible to the bad influences of people who mean well, but who have no earthly idea what she is enduring. What your mother is enduring is as traumatic as rape or physical assault. Can you imagine telling a rape victim to "rise above it" and be "friends" with her rapist? Would those around her give her praise for befriending her rapist? Because that is what people are telling your mother IN HER WEAKEST MOMENTS.

It sounds like she is in an environment where folks think it is a VIRTUE to act like she is not affected while she is enduring the worst thing that could ever happen to her. It is easy for those bystanders to encourage such behavior because it is not their ox getting gored. Those folks who are encouraging her to go along with it won't be dealing with the fallout. YOUR MOTHER WILL DEAL WITH THE FALLOUT FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE. She probably thinks she is being virtuous, when actually she is enabling the affair. That is a tragic mistake that she will regret for many years.

When my H left me in 1999 for another woman, I was also encouraged to "rise above it." [by people whose ox was not getting gored] The RESENTMENT I felt for allowing the OW and my XH to tromp over me haunted me for years. Your mother should not go along with such horrible treatment and not allow herself to be encouraged by people who won't be affected in any way.

All of these people need to understand what your mother is enduring and STOP encouraging her to be "friends" with your father. They are hurting your mother and when she emerges from this nightmare, SHE WILL NOT REMEMBER THEM WELL. I was very angry at my mother and sister for not protecting me from my XH's affair in my weakest moment.

Hi pokerface!!!!

I know your mothers friends and family care about her and want the best thing for her. What they are doing is actually destructive to her and your father. If they want to help her, they should be encouraging her to fight against the affair and save her marriage. This can be saved, but not if she is going along with the affair and actually behaving as an enabler. These people can show their care for her by helping her bust up this affair.

If the marriage is sacrificed for the affair [unnecessarily!] your mothers life will be wrecked. Your fathers life will be wrecked too because affairs do not make people happy. It will be the greatest mistake of his life. [that is not my opinion, but the opinion of Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist who has specialized in infidelity for 40 years] He has never met a person who was happy they left their marriage for an affair! Never!!

On the other hand, if your mother effectively killed this affair - with your family's help - she and your father could create a happy, romantic marriage that would erase all of the pain and trauma she is feeling today. <----that is what your family and friends should want for her.

If your family wants to support your mother they can help this way:

1. encourage your mother to stop going along with the affair and being "friends" with her adulterous husband

2. call up the OW and tell her that there is no future with your father because they will not allow her to ever darken their doorsteps

3. call your father and encourage him to end his affair because they will never accept his affair

4. encourage your mother to completely cut off contact with your father until he has ended his affair. Women have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder by hanging around a husband who is in an affair. Surely they do not want this for her??

Please tell your family that by encouraging your mother to "rise above it" they are putting her in grave danger.

Thank you very much for the replies.
OK. I will talk more with her. And then if I see nothing helps, I will expose the affair.

I have several questions about the exposure: I read that it is necessary to expose it to friends, family, workplace. About the exposure to the friends/colleagues of the other woman: since I do not know who exactly are her best friends/colleagues, who eventually can inflence her to stop the affair, I will write to every contact of hers, whom I find. This means all her friends on facebook. I also found the web page of the place she works, and there are email addresses there of her colleague (about 10 people), and two people who seem to be chief persons (she works at university). Do I need to write to each of these colleagues, or only at the cheaf people? MY intuition tells me to write to everyone. Maybe some of them are better friends to her than others, and it doesn't hurt if more people know. I could not find any information about her nuclear family - mother, father, etc.


About the exposure to the friends/colleagues of my father: should I write also to every frinds of his on facebook? There are people there, who are not our family friends, and I do not know them. Or should I write only to our close family and friends? And should I also write to all of his colleagues?

When I write to any of these people, should I just write them informatively, telling them about the affair and our pain, or should I also apart from this ask them to help if they can (by talking to him, etc.)?

Thank you!

Good idea, but don't tell her your plan. It you do, she may enlist others to persuade you out of it. You don't need that pressure.


I would expose to them all and ask them to have her parents call you.



No. Write to close family and friends.


You do both. Please look at my template letters. You are giving them the facts about the affair, telling them about the devastation this has caused for your mother and you AND asking them to use their influence to persuade him to end his affair.

Send seomthing like this:

Also, if you know of any close colleagues of your father's, expose to them too. Enlist them in helping your cause.

Melody...do you think it would be helpful to include a line such as...
My mother is devastated and wants to fix their marriage...

So that people will know that recovery is her mother's preference?

Thank you, MelodyLine.
Only one thing to clarify: should really not write to any of my father's colleagues? You mentioned only to close family and friends. Because he has some colleagues, who are older and know our family well, and he has also new colleagues. Many of them already know her, because she has visited him many times to his work place. So I thought I should tell them as well.. I thought they should also know the truth from our side, even if they don't know us well. Especially some of his newer colleagues know only her, but not us. At the same time, it is harder for me to ask them to influence him somehow, because I am not so close with them. Maybe some of the older ones, whom I know, but we are not too close with them either. What do you think? Even if they don't influence him, I thought all his circle should know.. What do I risk if I do it? Is it because I should not deminish his name? In a way, I do the same when I write to every friend and colleague of this other woman ... Why should I not do the same for him? Just asking.

Also, my father has his normal working place in our country, but he also is having a project with another working group, which is in the city where this other woman works. So, the university in that town has two groups, and she is working in one, and he is working in another. The group where she works will be informed (I should do this, right?), but should I also inform the other group where my father works? If they know about this, they might not want to work with him anymore. At the same time I feel I want them to know. I don't know. Do I have the right to do this? Just for the same of exposing. Them of course I cannot ask to influence him, I barely know them.

Thank you!

You probably crossed posts.

Absolutely!

I very much agree with your reasoning. Go ahead and add them to the list.


You don't know who will or won't have an influence on him, so if they have a working relationship I would add them to the list. And YES, expose to all of the OW's colleagues in her working group.

As a rule, be somewhat strategic with exposure to your fathers circle and be nuclear with the OW. The reason is because you want to do everything to run her so you don't need to be as surgical as with your father. In her case, you are flying blind and have no idea who could or couldn't be influential. And you don't really know with your father either, but you have more information than with her.