That's all that's keeping me going at the moment. It's just really hard to be the best husband I can when everything I do and say gets attacked. Even stuff that just gets attributed to me, "you talk about me with everyone behind my back."

I know this is what we all need to go through, I'm just struggling at the moment, hopefully these tablets will kick in soon!

OK, I've pulled myself together.

When she gets angry with me should I apologize regardless of whether I've even done anything or not? I've been apologizing for how things I have done have made her feel but this just seems to be making her angrier.

For example she will accuse me of avoiding her when I haven't been I've just been spending time with the kids or something. Then if I try to spend lots of time with her I'll be crowding her. Should I apologize for this and just take it on the chin?
Because things like this are common now when I apologize she says you don't really mean it because you keep doing it.

:-)


Can you smile sweetly and change the subject? Maybe think of something she would like to talk about such as what the children should give her for her birthday?


Be careful with this one. There may be some clues in there. If she is accusing you of avoiding her, that may be an opportunity for you to spend more time with her. Listen carefully. No you don't apologise, you thank her for letting you know.



If you apologise and keep doing the same thing, there is no human on the planet who would not be infuriated.

This is all good feedback and you should listen to her. Don't apologize but make the change.

When I've tried to do something like this I'm condescending and ignoring her feelings.


Those weren't the best examples of what I meant, i just couldn't think of anything else at the time. A better example just happened. She brought me a cup of tea. I said "thank you" and as she left the room she said "your welcome" then came back and asked "what have I done" when I said nothing and asked why, she said I didn't acknowledge her. I said that I had thanked her but she wouldn't have any of it and said you might have thought you did but you didn't say anything. This is the kind of stuff I'm meaning. I asked if it was possible she just didn't hear me but no, I "didn't say anything". I just don't see how I can change my behavior in this kind of situation as I've already done what she wanted but it's not being acknowledged.
The other things she does is we will have a conversation and everything seems fine. Then a couple of hours later she will seem really annoyed about something. When I ask what's wrong I will get told all these things I have said or the way I've said them. I don't believe I have said these things or used the tone she is saying I did and if I did why has it taken hours for her to get annoyed about it. In these situations I'm saying that isn't how I remember it but apologizing for how she feels.


I get this but if i don't apologise I'm an [censored] but if I do I'm doing the same things all the time and so don't mean it. I could understand this and address it and so not do the same thing again but when, like in the example above, I'm being accused of not thanking her when I did I'm kind of stuck.

I think I've worked out the "You always have to be right" issue though. I believe that 2 people can have different opinions on something and that's fine as long as you can respect and acknowledge the other persons opinion and their right to have it. She believes you either have to agree with her or else you are saying she is wrong and you are right.

Big development. She has decided to go back on meds for bipolar. Doesn't change our situ but at least if she's stable there might be more chance.

Apologizing for how she feels is an insult so I wouldn't do that. It sounds to me like you are in the habit of deny, deny, deny, instead of listening to her complaints and making changes. Stop arguing and denying and make a decision to do it better. Start listening and stop talking.
'
If she told you she didn't feel acknowledged or thanked for bringing you coffee, then DO IT BETTER. Don't sit there and deny her complaints and argue about it!

When you feel like "apologizing for how she feels" it would be better, and less damaging to just slap her. Don't ever do that again! That is not an apology.

You need to avoid arguments at all cost. It is a bad habit that completely turns women off.

Thank you ML. I needed to hear that and you're right. If she was saying these things to someone else I would back her so just because it's me that shouldn't change. I need to be her biggest supporter.

So this is totally messed up. My Wife came to me this evening and said she can see how much pain her relationship with OM is causing me so she is going to stop "seeing" him. She will still talk to him and hang out sometimes they just won't "see" each other. She also said this doesn't mean we are getting back together and she has no intention of working on our relationship. They feel like they are cheating (maybe because they are) and it's too complicated right now.

I know this is less than a false recovery. All that's going to happen at best is they won't sleep together for a couple of months but more likely it will just go underground until they feel enough time has passed. She is already in withdrawal and getting sad and angrier with me.

I don't know what to say to this. If that's the way it is I don't see the point, she might as well keep "seeing" him. I just don't want to be in the position of actively encouraging her to "see" him, like I'm saying it is OK. What on earth do I do or say?

Just be a broken record and keep telling her "your affair is killing me. It hurts me so much. Please stop hurting me. Please stop hurting me." Ask her to end her affair by ending all contact.

Your wife is delusional so you need to stop feeding that. First off, you are not "separated" and she is just a married woman who is committing adultery.

This seems worse than her "seeing" him. It's not what they do so much that is the problem, it's the feelings involved.

No one seems to be pressing the fact that they are both still married as a problem. There has been alot of that around here. The not being seperated has been an issue for some people but the biggest benefit of exposure seems to have been they felt talked about. By waiting a while to resume I think they are hopping to legitamise their relationship - "look we waited and we're still in love".

My wife has been going round like a lovesick tenager listening to love songs and looking weepy. I'm wondering if the best thing I can do is move out for a few months. That way she can see what it would be like without me. I don't think anything else is going to break the fog. I know it would be a risk as she might just move on but atleast I would know and could start to rebuild my life alone.

What a silly comment. She has said she will be seeing him.


They are still seeing each other. Just because she told you they aren't having sex a) does not mean it is true and b) is meaningless anyway. An affair is an affair.

I can change the name of an affair to a baloney sandwich, it doesn't mean it is true, it just means I am insane.

I would start making plans to separate. Let her know today that this will lead to divorce if she does not end her adulterous affair. Tell her you need to start talking about separation.

What is your plan for separation? This is an especially sick situation because your wife is deep into a fantasy where she is rubbing her adultery in your face every day. She essentially moved into the guest room, proclaimed herself "separated" and flaunts her adultery in your face. That is not a healthy situation for any of you.

bphubbie,
First hang in there. You can do it.
Second, do not move out - do not suggest that you move, do not in anyway indicate you are considering it.
I know that there is an article about this - I just did a quick search and didn't find it (reflection of my search skills) but I am sure someone else will be along to provide the link, and more background.
In the meantime, what can you do to address her complaints? What are you doing to monitor any contact they may still have?

Dr Harley has suggested that a husband is the one to move out for Plan B. He is getting close to that point. Secondly, they live in a small town and will have to move away in order to recover. Dr Harley has recommended in such cases that the BS move away - after doing Plan A- and when the affair dies, the WS can follow the BS. That sets the stage for a possible recovery.


They openly date and they flaunt it. She moved into the guest room and announced she was "separated" and therefore, entitled to have an affair. The OM even comes to their home.

What he should be doing is making plans to move and telling his wife this will lead to divorce if she doesn't end her affair.

I know it is meaningless and have told her so. I have said I want her to stop seeing him completely and for us to work together on our marriage. She replied that we will NEVER be together again.

We also talked about other stuff and she shared to me a link about co-dependency. She has studied a bit of psychology and says that was our problem. I have read the link and agree that it described us well but don't see that that was a problem (I've since read Dr Harley's article about the co-dependency movement ruining marriage). This does explain some of her complaints a bit better - paraphrasing my wife here - We were too close???? I thought that was the point of marriage. I have told her that I think you should spend your most enjoyable moments with your spouse, she disagrees and says that is what friends are for.

I have started looking for jobs outside our town ready for a move away.

Yet, you ARE together. You are married and live together. I would bring this up when she says this. Don't give credence to her delusions.


This is like the falling down drunk who blames their drinking on their marriage. It is all meaningless fogbabble. "C0-dependency" makes no sense outside of addiction.

I
Yeah!! Best news I have heard from you!! I would also be a broken record with her, tell her how much her adultery with "Sally's husband" hurts you. Ask her to end her affair and keep reminding her that this will lead to divorce. I would refer to the OM as XYZ's husband to remind her he is a married man.

ML,
I really thought I had read a thread or an article entitled "Men do Not Move Out"
As I can't find it I must have been dreaming, or is there a difference between Plan A, and Plan B? i.e. Men do not move out if you are trying to Plan A, but then if that doesn't work and you decide to move to Plan B - move out.
Is there a reason for this? Is it because a man can not usually lock a woman out (as has been suggested to betrayed wives here to do to their WH)without it looking really bad (i.e. in court))?
I get if you are trying to Plan A - then stay, and I can see an argument for leaving when you move to Plan B - but at the same time, depending on the domestic and financial situation doesn't this add stress to the BH? Sorry, just trying to understand.
Also - I saw that she was going out - but I was hoping that the exposure would have more of an impact.
edited for clarity - and spelling

You are exactly right. Men should not move out in Plan A, but should move out in Plan B. Dr Harley doesn't recommend ever kicking a woman out of her home. But he does advocate asking a wayward husband to move out.


No, if a BH is ready to go into Plan B, ie: enduring severe emotional fallout over the affair, it relieves stress to move out. And of course, the only way to go into Plan B is to separate. If the affair does not end in a certain amount of time, it is not recommended the BS live forever in that toxic situation.

ML,
Thank you - so I am not totally messed up, just missing the distinction between Plan A, and Plan B.

Now - I understand the idea of moving away - make the wayward spouse follow you. This is logical to me.

How does child custody work in this case? Should the BS get primary custody before moving? I can't imagine being farther than 5 minutes from my boys, and wouldn't want to move outside of their present school district. Which would go against the idea of moving away from triggers etc.

Does the Betrayed Spouse secure primary custody before moving? And in the case where you have a husband working towards these goals I can see that as challenging - i.e. will the judge agree to allowing the child to be moved from one school to another etc in the middle of the school year.

Sorry, I don't mean to TJ - and I do not want to derail, or contradict your advice, this is just really an interesting situation, that I could see applying to others.

Thank you.