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You know, pegster2pink1, it has been 3 years for me since D-day. OW and my WH have been living together all of that time.

OW was a neighbor, and she still comes by once a week to visit her husband and 14 year old daughter. She loves to drive by my house, and smirk and flip her hair. There is another street that goes directly to her husband's house, but she prefers to drive down my street. I have asked my husband and her husband to ask her not to drive by my house, but she continues to do it.

Even though I am done with WH and we are divorcing, I do get resentful of her driving by. It is just so unnecessary. She has my husband, the life that should have been mine. She helped WH blow our retirement savings.

Shouldn't that be enough?

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Neak:

IMO, it is not Ok for you to feel the need to hold back from talking about your resentment towards the FOW. It is helpful to others who are feeling your same feelings. Your feelings ARE WHAT THEY ARE...

Of course, I say this because when I was at your point..I had the same feelings about the FOW....I came on here and vented and got lots of HELP with this...some folks validating my viewpoint..others saying that I needed to move on...

IT DOES TAKE TIME..it did for me..I've come to the conclusion that we are all different and that we move at our own pace..based on our particular situations.

Actually, you've been helpful to me in your discussions about this, making me feel that I am not alone. You got me to thinking. The difference between my H and the OW is that he has asked for my forgiveness, is repentant is truly sorry about what he did..lets me know this often. This is not true of the OW and that's why I have held on to my feelings about her. Recently, I got to thinking... just maybe that the OW is sorry by now. But, the last I heard from her she was calling on my voicemail and calling me the B word, calling my house playing songs for my H to hear (had to change our number AGAIN)...heard her begging my H to leave me...so you see, I am left with a "bad taste in my mouth"....plus, Steve H., himself, referred to her as the "drug dealer" and felt that she would try to get to him if she could..my FWH also seems intimidated by her pull and goes through extreme measures to avoid seeing her or talking to her...HE WANTS TO MOVE OUT OF TOWN...

We had a discussion on here about the books People of the Lie..I decided she was one..and Bold Love..in which the author stated a belief that we are not called as Christians to FORGIVE the unrepentant...I agree with that belief...

So, Neak, let's continue to discuss, My Sister in Recovery...

It will get better....in due time...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Believer,
That is truly awful.
Although I don't think it is specifically relevant to my
comments to Neak.
XOW are entitled to go to the grocery store and have jobs and move forward with their lives just as Neak's former WH is allowed. From her posts it sounds like there are not too
many routes available to ensure lack of distanced contact.
Again, I'm glad she and her famly are able to move away.

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By the way, Welcome to MarriageBuilders.

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Mimi,
Have you thought that maybe your H represents her drug.
She is addicted to him also....that's why she is fighting
so hard to try and renew contact.
If she is single she has no marriage to repair- to focus
her energies on- hence she's desperate for that high.
I also encourage Neak to continue to discuss her feelings
regarding XOW. But I would also encourage her to discuss
and vent about her feeling regarding FWH. I think a fuller
picture would also benefit others in similar positions.

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I'll let Neak speak for herself but my negativity is specifically focused on the FOW in my situation and not ALL FOW. There are OW who have learned from their mistakes, are repentant and wish BSes no harm.. But, in reality, there are some others who are loony and/or evil....and have not changed.


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No need for apologies. One of the down sides, and there are very few, of a forum like this is you only know what a person is thinking about at that moment, it does not always reflect the full picture.

If my H were triggering me on a regular basis, I would need to vent about him, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

One of my dear friends on Idiotville began to refer to her as Gargamel after yet another episode of her using the necessary monetary contact to try and make trouble between AJ & I. After a particularly vicious attack that upset me very much (though with the help of my good advisors I never let on to her), he was trying to give me a little perspective about what she was doing. By calling her Gargamel, because of her propensities for stirring the pot, he hoped to, and at least partially succeeded in bringing me some distance, and not taking the numerous attacks quite so personally.

So when I call her Gargamel it is actually a reminder to give her less power over me, and not more. She is a pot-stirrer by her very nature, and that is not something I should take to heart. Most days I can remember that. I do not call her Gargamel in a mean way. It is light and flippant, trivializing things she would very much wish to make big, weighty, and important.

It is not as inflammatory as Monkeyho (no offense to Peachy), or Psychobabblerabbit (no offense to Orchid). I like this quote from Peachy:

Quote
I have found if you give the OP a nickname that is ironic, or on some level amusing, YOU TAKE AWAY ANY MYSTERY AND POWER THEY HAVE...it's hilarious.

I have found this to be true for me, as well.


I believe I have forgiven her, but also that this in no way removes the surge of feelings I have, and continue to have, every single time I see her. It is something I struggle with every time.

Drex, you would be very proud of me. NOT ONE of the times I've seen her have I even swerved slightly in her direction. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'll be back in a little...gotta get the kids back on track. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Neak, I AM proud of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It's ok to dream though. <grinz>


~~One day at a time is all we're given. Just deal with today and let God have tomorrow.~~ Me = 32 FWH in 1996. Current BH Her = 33 FWW DS 15 DD 11 DS 7 Discovery March 29, 2006 Recovery and proud of it!
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I can see one way B's comments specifically apply to me.

If B, after 3 years, still feels a certain amount of resentment, especially when her OW seems bent on rubbing B's face in this, then it means I am normal.

"Normal" does not necessarily mean "Ok", or "Can continue indefinitely", but it does show that the process past this is slow, everyone goes at their own pace, and if I am not as far along as some, I am at least pointed in the right direction.

It actually makes me feel better that dear, wonderful people who are much farther along than I am, still feel this way sometimes. It takes away some of the pressure I feel (self-imposed) to heal faster.

I cannot stay this way, and I recognize that, but I also believe that I will get better, given more time.

AJ is home today, so there will be a limit how long I can park myself at the computer, but I'll be in and out to comment on the other comments that were made while I was posting before.

Thanks to everyone for their input. I have always found differing viewpoints to be educational and helpful.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Quote
Mimi,
Have you thought that maybe your H represents her drug.
She is addicted to him also....that's why she is fighting
so hard to try and renew contact.
If she is single she has no marriage to repair- to focus
her energies on- hence she's desperate for that high.
I also encourage Neak to continue to discuss her feelings
regarding XOW. But I would also encourage her to discuss
and vent about her feeling regarding FWH. I think a fuller
picture would also benefit others in similar positions.


Peg, AMEN to all of this. You are very insightful and on target, I think. I agree with Neak's need to also talk about her FWH. Thanks for your response.

Neak:

I also don't post much if at all when at home with my FWH. There is a FWS SCRIPT, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


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Quote
I'll let Neak speak for herself but my negativity is specifically focused on the FOW in my situation and not ALL FOW.

For me, yes....and no. Yes, in that she is half the cause of my pain, and I give her exactly half the negative focus. No, in that at the same time I could also have negative feelings if I knew/heard of another OW behaving in a similar way to her.

I would have been hurt just as much had AJ chosen someone else to have an A with.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Perhaps you two are right, that I need to discuss the resentment toward my H. I'm certainly willing to give it a try.

I don't think it would have been as beneficial to anyone had I tried to discuss it while I was exploding with anger. (Not at him - only inside.) It might have been one more outlet, but would have been so harsh also. I think the most important factor in dealing with it was winning the battle for my thoughts, thank you again SS.

Not that there aren't still skirmishes throughout the day even yet, but my mind is not consumed by it like before, I am better at rerouting my mind into good channels than before, and I really think I can discuss it now without excessive harm to my blood pressure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mimi, I foresee we are going to have some interesting discussions on forgiveness. Who knows - it may even turn out we are saying the same thing, just expressing it a different way. If not, I'm sure we will have no trouble agreeing to disagree.

I had to smile at what you said about your computer time being limited while your FWH was home. Yours prolly wants his snuggle-bunny pretty handy, too, right?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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So much to say, and so little time in which to say it, at least for tonight.

First off, it is one year now since PBL #1. Last night was the 1 yr of when he got the letter, and today is the 1 yr since we began Recovery #1. It's amazing how much has been packed into that one year.

For the record, my physical condition is hugely improved from what it was a week or so ago when I took up weeding as a hobby. (SS smiles proudly.) Yesterday, in addition to regular housework, I began loosening the soil for the garden with a pitchfork (oh to have a rototiller), did an area about 7x4 so far, ran the weedeater for more than a half hour, and then started loosening the soil in one of the weed-overgrown flower beds, too.

Of course I could hardly move today, but still managed to get quite a bit of cleaning done. If this keeps up, I will soon be back to normal, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> whatever that is.

Mom asked me about the references I have made to weakness, and when I told her I had never been back up to par since all the bleeding, and that being sick several times hadn't helped any either, she checked my gums and conjunctiva. The concensus (between she, herself, and her), was that while I was not too terrible - the day I almost fainted in church all my mucous membranes were pasty white - that I wasn't even yet quite what I should be, and it would be a good idea to look up iron-rich vegetable and eat some of them for a while. Which I will do. When Nurse T&L says something would be a good idea, you'd better have done it yesterday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Last night I had a big long dream that I was PG again, but with a girl this time. I made sure I could feel it every second, so I would know it was still alive. All the while thinking it was very convenient that I hadn't even known I was PG until around 15 weeks, when I would be able to feel it move.

Which was not anywhere as bad as the dream I had a few nights ago where somebody had unburied him and I had to either bury him back in a mess, or put him back in his blankie myself. Of course I chose the latter, but the whole dream was icky and clung to me for a good two days after.

However, with such a plethora of physical labor, I am back to dropping off to sleep as soon as I sit down in the evenings. In fact, I am getting drowsy now, so I will walk around a bit, serve up my strawberry shortcake before that thieving Dervish wakes up and eats all the strawberries (for the third time) and I don't get any, and then I'll be back.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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First things first. I have a few brief comments on forgiveness, and will go into my thoughts more deeply once I have a chance to talk more about prayer.

I believe the Bible illustrates two kinds of forgiveness. One is shown when Jesus, as the soldiers were nailing Him to the cross, prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." The other kind of forgiveness is found in 1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

In the first case, this intermediary forgiveness is what would apply to those of us who have been harmed by someone, whether by adultery or something else. It has two main uses.

1. Removing that sin from the record of the guilty party. Did God forgive the sins of the soldiers when Jesus asked Him to? Of course. That grievous sin no longer stained their records. But was that forgiveness enough to save them? By itself, no.

2. Showing the heart of the intermediary to be pure and untainted by hatred. Jesus was not exactly thrilled to be impaled on those wooden cross beams, and yet He asked forgiveness for the guilty men WHILE THEY WERE STILL DOING IT, because in His heart of love there was no room for bitterness, only pity. He must have known the fiery destruction that waited for them if they did not progress to the second level of forgiveness, and longed with every ounce of Himself to spare them that; to keep them forever with Him.

The second type of forgiveness is a saving forgiveness, springing from repentance. This is where the guilty person comes to the realization that what they have done is wrong, they are sorry, they tell God, and He purifies them from EVERYTHING!

So the first type of forgiveness comes by the request of an innocent party, and though it is not without impact, is nowhere near as far-reaching as the second type of forgiveness, where the guilty one themself asks for pardon, and with God's help leaves the sin behind.

When we ask for forgiveness for our OP or WS, God hears us and answers our prayer. And while that alone does not bring the infidels salvation, it does remove a barrier, as well as making our (the BS's) heart right with God, having love and not cherishing anger.

And as far as us forgiving the OP, how can we not forgive them for a sin God has forgiven because we asked Him to? Yes, they have willfully hurt us, but the soldiers hurt Jesus willfully, too. They just did not understand the full magnitude of what they were doing. Neither do the OP/WS grasp the scope of their actions. Not that this excuses them. They are still fully responsible for what they choose, as were the soldiers.

But when we reach the place we can ask God to forgive those who have wounded us, we are that much closer to perfect alignment with the will of God.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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Resentment. Wow. That will only take me a year and a half to bring me up to date. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

For the purposes of keeping this manageable, let's just assume that everything I have shared so far stirs up resentment every time I think of it, toward both of the guilty parties. And if I think of any previously undiscussed sources of resentment, I will be sure to share them.

Now, to see how this ends up impacting my daily life, you will ride along on a hypothetical trip to town with me. (What made me think of this, is one of my friends came over and went with me to town, and ended up getting the full guided tour, as we went past nearly every bad spot in that neck of the woods.) Since we can only go to one place at a time, we'll start with Jackson, the worst of the lot.

We turn out the driveway and start up the street, the only way in or out of the housing development. There on the right is the stupid For Rent sign on that stupid house that AJ wanted to rent. Deep breath. Try to direct as much aggression as possible on the stupid house, while deep inside acknowledging the injustice of this.

The road winds along, and within about 7 or 8 minutes we reach the intersection where I saw her the other day. We look carefully around, but don't see her. This used to be a safe part of the trip, but not anymore. We have fleeting thoughts of the lookout spot several miles off to the right, where she might have been going that day. It used to be one of our favorite spots. Sometimes we even went miles out of our way to go to town along that route, just so we could stop there for a few minutes and admire the view of the lake. Now all we can think of is how he said he was going to break up with her there, and didn't.

So we drive on.

In about another 5 minutes we reach the highway. Now we are on full alert. This is the major road she would use to go just about anywhere besides Jackson, on the other side of the road is the turnoff to where her horses are kept, and so the chances of an encounter skyrocket. We climb the hill, chatting easily, yet always watching in front, to the rear, and on each side.

Today we have to go by the doctor's office, so we drive up past her bank, then the school where Neaksis' children attend, then past her house. Her car is in the driveway, and we relax. She is not driving around. She is not in Safeway. She is at home.

For whatever reason, going past her house is not as painful as it used to be (unless AJ is there). We note the presence or absence of the vehicle, but are able to mostly keep our thoughts from dwelling on how somewhere in one of those cramped little rooms, our dear one freely traded his honor for a quick squirt of pleasure. Several times. Ok, so it still stings. But our heart does not pump any faster, the hair does not stand up on the backs of our necks; we only squint our eyes a little and grit our teeth.

After seeing the doctor, we debate. We could go miles out of our way on a twisty windy road, and avoid going past her house again. It is a beautiful route, and often we do. But it took so long at the doctor we decide that the peace of mind from one more quick peek to make sure she is still there, is worth any momentary irritation.

We drive past, and this time she is gone. So much for relaxing, but it is better to know. Red alert kicks in. She could be anywhere. We don't even feel a twinge at seeing the house. All we can think is that she's out there....somewhere.

At the corner where her bank is (the one where I went in January to ask the tellers if she was PG), we make a left to get to town. Within a few hundred feet, we drive past the airport road, which also leads to the A-workplace. A wave of memories well up, from taking him lunch the very first day, all the way to meeting him when he got off work for his second day back since starting NC, and not knowing at the time that the reason he didn't remember he had promised to go out with me was that she had left the note on his car that day and he had already broken NC.

A little farther down, also on the left, is the now-infamous print shop where she has been spotted repeatedly. We scan the parking lot, unable to help ourselves, but she is not there.

So we shove all thoughts aside and start down the hill into Jackson. Except there is the Denny's where he took both of us to dinner, just not at the same time. And there is the road to the hospital, which I would rather walk on broken glass barefoot than drive past again, after the trauma inflicted on my poor brain after the last time. If we had had to go to Pine Grove, we would have zigged around on some back roads to get past it.

Almost to the health food store is her other bank, the one from which she drew the very first loan to AJ for the corporation, where he lied and said she just did it and he couldn't stop her because he didn't know until she had done it, when I had seen him leaving the house that morning with a deposit slip, and had the bank fax me a copy of everything the next day. For a moment I fantasize about putting up an exposure poster (billboard?) in that bank, but get a grip quickly, chuckling so you won't guess the unflattering direction of my thoughts.

From the health food store we drive back past her bank, past the Denny's, and because this time we have to stop at Wal Mart, which is right on our way home, we also drive past the Perko's Cafe in which he took her to breakfast the morning I was home alone throwing up from the flu and trying to care for our three small children, and it's right in the same parking lot as the Albertsons where the close call occurred a few weeks ago.

While we are in Wal Mart, we chat unceasingly, just in case they play that awful song again - her A song. (Not his or their A song, oh no. She was not special enough to him to have "their song", and yet he betrayed me for her anyway, which leads to yet another kind of resentment.) They don't play it and we are relieved, but still knowing that someday, somewhere, someone is going to play it again. And we will not be ready.

Back past the turnoff to her horses, past the intersection where I saw her, past the For Rent sign, and finally the relative safety of the driveway. We didn't run into her this time, or the last time, so next time we probably will. We take a deep breath and let it out. The tension drains from us. Smiling, we walk toward the house, where AJ is waiting to watch Jarhead with us.

ARGH!!!!!!!

The next Resentment Installment (not tonight) is entitled, "Is Anywhere Safe?"

(Hint: the answer is no.)


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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PS, the above reminds me of the childrens' book, Bears in the Night, if any of you have read it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> What an excellent facade you have, my very dear daughter!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I realize you learned facade-building from a master (I'd say "mistress, for gender correctness, except that on this site that might not be the best word choice!), but you've taken it several steps beyond anything I've ever hoped to achieve. I don't know whether to be proud or <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />.

t&l

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Just a drive-by. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's not a facade. It's what I've learned to live with and function around.

I have built dams and levees to channel it, and the river only breaks out of its banks once in a while, such as when I see her directly, or one of the other (fewer lately) hard triggers.

It still amazes me, but life eventually goes on.


A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb



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If it walks like a facade, looks like a facade, quacks like a facade.............. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

All I meant was that nobody--and that includes the people who inhabit your life with you every day, and love you up close and personal--would ever be able to tell from your calm exterior what was flowing in those "channels", or sloshing around behind your "levees". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I learn more about what's going on in your head, from your thread on MB than I could ever learn from watching you myself, not if I did it all day every day of my life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> And if it's that way for me, I'll bet you anything it's double and TRIPLE for your husband--who, let's face it, is not the most nuanced guy on the face of the planet--unless you outright tell him, which you often don't. Your father isn't the only clam in the family!!

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Facade

If we live the facade long enough, it becomes real life.

If you pretend you are brave, it seems to become actual bravery. If it's not........ well, does it really matter?

From "The King and I"

Whistle a Happy Tune

Anna
Whenever I feel afraid
I hold my head erect
And whistle a happy tune
So no one will suspect
I'm Afraid.

While shivering in my shoes
I strike a careless pose
And whistle a happy tune
And no one ever knows I'm afraid.

The result of this deception
Is very strange to tell
For when I fool the people I fear
I fool myself as well!
I whistle a happy tune
And ev'ry single time
The happiness in the tune
Convinces me that I'm not afraid.
Make believe you're brave
And the trick will take you far.
You may be as brave
As you make believe you are

You may be as brave
As you make believe you are!




SS was in a choir in grade school, and we sang this song. It has stuck with me and I pretend many things that help me improve myself. I pretend I can do more than I can, I pretend I am happier than I feel, I pretend I'm not upset sometimes when I am.

Neak,
I admire how well you cope, even when it's difficult.

T&L,
Lots of questions for you, little time.

Why would the devil be hounding you so hard right now?
With me, it usually comes just before something good, to try to ruin it.

Think back -

Please make it through this one too. I believe in you.
We'll continue to pray for all of you.

SS


I think sometimes about all the pain in the world. I hope we can ease that here, even if only a little bit.
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