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Originally Posted by Mark1952
I thought it was just because we always end up doing all the work...

MrRollieEyes

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Originally Posted by Mark1952
I thought it was just because we always end up doing all the work...

RE: The romance novels...

Yep, they're full of sex...

And all the stuff women need to get to the sex part...

Including Conversation, Affection, Honesty and Openness, Family Commitment, and Financial Support.

For most men the destination is what counts the most. For women, the journey is at least as important.

Well, I'll check the boostore. Maybe I'll find Truman Capote's picture, bare cheated, ridng a stallion on a Harlequin.

Mark, where do you come up with these sayings? They sound good, but I am not sure they stand up to scrutiny.

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Originally Posted by not2fun
Originally Posted by Mark1952
I thought it was just because we always end up doing all the work...

MrRollieEyes

Yep, getting all my emotional needs met is work. I will not have sex unless I am courted and made to feel "special". smile

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Originally Posted by Zelmo
But, I think that our culture has stigmatized women who admit to liking sex without that much emotional involvement, that they are unlikey to admit it.

How many of your male friends have said they REGRETTED their ONS??.....

I cannot think of one time where I've known a woman to have sex PURELY for the sake of having sex and NOT regret it. WHY???...because the performance was bad??...No, because the EMOTIONAL entanglement was missing.


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In college, all types of women were having ONS.

Yes, Z, many women are out there having ONS.....BUT most of them regret it...and don't often do a repeat performance....


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I'm not saying this is bad or shameful

Like heck it ain't!!!!.....Going out and whoring yourself out is BAD and SHAMEFUL behavior....It devalue's sex and its TRUE purpose....

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It just seems to me that there is some type of weird elevation of cheating for women, as if it is somehow nobler, because they allege that they were motivated by factors other than wanting sex.

WHAT???.... crazy.....there is nothing NOBLE about a cheating woman.....where are you seeing this kind of bullmalarky???

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quaere,

I don't know this word..... skeptical


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wouldn't a guy that came on here alleging that he went out and had sex with someone because his wife was not all that adept at sex get raked over the coals in terms of his superficiality as compared to a woman alleging that her emotional needs were neglected for years thus driving her to seek romance/sex from some affair partner.


Surely you don't mean on these boards???....In my nearly two years here, I have not seen the waywards treated any different whether they be female or male. They BOTH get 2x4 until some sense is knocked into them.......So I assume you must mean this IRL. To which, no I have yet to see it.....WW get just as much dismal treatment for their behavior as WH's. Actually, maybe even worse, since after all, men have been doing it for YEARS and women are just now seeming to catch up.....


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Yeah, many guys regret it , as well. I just do not think you are privy to their thoughts, just like you do not feel I am privy to women's.

Why on earth would the fact that women's cheating is on the rise make anyone react more strongly to an individual woman's cheating? I just don't see the logic in that.

And, you are right, on this board, there is no tolerance for cheating regardless of the motivation and that is good. But, there are a number of other sites where folks feel emotional neglect, or some form of alleged withdrawal by the man mitigates things.
Quaere(gotta check the spelling) is a word that many of my law school profs used. It means "ask yourself".

But, not2, what do youthink of this scenario. A woman describes years of withdrawal and lack of emotional intimacy in justifying her affair and comes on here looking for advice after cheating.
Another poster, a guy, says that his wife gained weight after having kids. For years he has nagged her to lose some weight around the hips. She does not, much as the withdrawn husband ignores his wife's plea to communicate.He tries to promote this as justification
I'd bet the guy gets harsher treatment, despite Harley categorizing both as having ENs that are neglected. The guy looks like much more of a disgusting jerk(which he is) than the woman does(which she is also).
As for the true meaning of sex, I agree. But, you have to admit, many folks seem to view it as nothingmore than a pleasurable bodily function, like eating or taking a good dump. Just watch TV.


Last edited by Zelmo; 11/24/09 11:29 PM.
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Just wanted to add that I appreciate the tenor of all the responses. No personal attacks. Just like court. Everyone makes good points. Reasonable minds can disagree.
I often break for lunch with opposing counsel. Then, we resume and have at it. You guys are good.

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Originally Posted by Tabby1
Zelmo, I just finished reading the rest of your other thread (the one that Mark linked to this one). It seems that you may be misinterpreting something about the gender distinction. I don't believe Dr. Harley intended to say that infidelity is harder on women than men. The quotes that ML referred you to were talking about Plan A being harder on women than men. Again, I believe this to be consistent with the gender differences Mark has tried to explain and the media takes advantage of.

I did a Plan A for about 3 months. It was hard, at first. Then, I just got used to it and took a lot of Xanax. God, I could play golf on that stuff. I shot two 68's zoned out. Taught me a lot about playing without fear. My doc would not give me any more,though. I offered to give him 3 shots a side, but no dice.

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With all the references to Cosmo and harlequin romances, I thought I'd mention something I saw in Men's Health a few days ago (in the auto shop where I was getting my oil changed!). Sorry, I didn't note which issue it was. Anyway, it was about giving her better SF or something like that. I read it because I thought I might get a laugh out of what men would be advised to do to be better lovers, but some of the points were actually pretty interesting.

The one that stood out for me was that her reaching O is more important to him than it is to her - as if it's some sort of prize. She is NOT going to O every single time, but she can still have a great experience even if she doesn't. But most men worry about this and focus too much on this, hence neglecting what will really make it great for her. From my own experience, I'd have to say I agree with this. Why do you think women bother to fake it? Before you panic, it could be anything from her not wanting to let you down, or she's already satisfied (emotionally), or maybe she does just want to get it over with.

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Tabby, I think the woman's O may be important to guys because for us, engaging in that much activity without a release would be very uncomfortable. (Heard of Blue Balls?).
I think we just cannot imagine getting that aroused without a release and we may not know exactly understand how O's work for women and think it is like the ones we have.
I mean, it would be tortuous for a man to get that aroused and not get to have an O.
So, while theremay be an element of proving that you know what you are doing, I think there is also real concern that by not giving an O, you may make your partner uncomfortable.

Last edited by Zelmo; 11/25/09 11:17 AM.
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Originally Posted by Zelmo
Yeah, many guys regret it , as well. I just do not think you are privy to their thoughts, just like you do not feel I am privy to women's.

Interesting you say this, considering this all started because the women on here were telling you what women think/do and you tell us we were wrong....or that the actions of women you witness belies what we are telling you..... wink

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Why on earth would the fact that women's cheating is on the rise make anyone react more strongly to an individual woman's cheating? I just don't see the logic in that.

Because historically when one here's of women cheating the immediate thought is "whore/loose/easy", whereas when men cheat its been a high-five response (society wise...)

HOWEVER....I thought of this a lot last night, and now I want to recant......I'm gonna go into a little personal history, so bear with me.....

When I was 13, I found out my mom was having an affair. I stumbled upon her and OM making out in the car. Now, mom had taken us all over town with OM for months. He was very nice to us, showed us a good time and bought things for us. Now, when I stumbled upon this scene, I instictively knew this was wrong....but rationalized that since Dad was always working, him and I weren't especially close (and mom and I were) that I could UNDERSTAND why she would do this. In fact, when she discussed us moving out of the house (parents seperating), I was okay with this.....(the affair eventually ended and we never moved out....mom DENIED the affair to me and sis when sis called her out on it, and even went so far as to tell me that I didn't see what I saw, that I misunderstood it.....)....

Now flashforward 9 yrs or so, and mom is having nervous breakdowns....In and out of mental hospitals and the such. Anywho, mom and dad go through this "confessional" session and mom's affairs become known (yep I said affairs....turns out she had 3, the one sis and I were exposed to was #3). It also comes out that Dad had an affair. His was early on in the marriage. A ONS when mom was in the hospital for attempting suicide.

Anyway, dad and I were discussing this stuff then and I had and REALLY hard time dealing with dads ONS. To me, just going out to "get some" was WAY WAY worse than Mom's, after all, she was in a relationship and loved the man..... crazy (talk about messed up thinking....). Anyway, I told my dad this. I was more upset for YEARS for his A then mom's.

Of course, now having been through the mess of H's A and learning all I have about them, the nature of them and experiencing first hand the devastation of them.....my thinking has changed.

BTW, while I'm on the subject of mom, I have to say you would have a FIELD day with her. Every time you ever start on the whole BPD/BP/PD stuff, I always think "Z you would have fun with my mom...."..... grin

Of course by what you written about that stuff, I have decided that I am a Narcisstic BPD who suffers from bouts of depression/anxiety/panic attacks intermitant with insomnia and of course the occasional delusional attack of PMS....... stickout

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But, there are a number of other sites where folks feel emotional neglect, or some form of alleged withdrawal by the man mitigates things.

Well, I don't visit these other sites. Don't have the time. Heck, kids and H don't always care for the time I spend on MB...
Most of my stuff comes from what I have read and EXPERIENCED....much like you


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Quaere(gotta check the spelling) is a word that many of my law school profs used. It means "ask yourself".

Thanks...from the mouth of my DD15...."dumbitdown".....

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But, not2, what do youthink of this scenario. A woman describes years of withdrawal and lack of emotional intimacy in justifying her affair and comes on here looking for advice after cheating.
Another poster, a guy, says that his wife gained weight after having kids. For years he has nagged her to lose some weight around the hips. She does not, much as the withdrawn husband ignores his wife's plea to communicate.He tries to promote this as justification
I'd bet the guy gets harsher treatment, despite Harley categorizing both as having ENs that are neglected. The guy looks like much more of a disgusting jerk(which he is) than the woman does(which she is also).

Nope....I just don't think so...not around here anyway. And now, having been educated in the MB ways and Dr. H's teachings, I would not react any harsher.

Listen, you above senario WAS my marriage. You probably don't know much of my story, but that was it in a NUTSHELL. I had gained weight through out the years. I was 45 lbs over-weight when H started his A. MANY MANY people (men and women) berated my H for thinking this way. Sad, I know. I was of the "you-should-love-me-for-who-I-am" camp.....didn't take his complaints seriously. Now, this was not the ONLY issue H had at the time, I honestly believe that the problems most have in their M are nailed down to one issue.......BUT now since, I have truly learned that Physical Appearance is a VALID need, I work hard to meet that need. Believe me, a wise VET on here, Mimi, worked hard with me on this issue....... grin

Hopefully, you've gotten your hands on some of Dr. H's books. I would tell you start with "Surviving An Affair", not because you need it, but to understand what we are saying. For me (and I had been married for 14 yrs. when H started his A), I thought I knew how to make a relationship work. But when I read SAA, it was like a lightbulb moment, and the clouds parted, and the sun began to shine....just kidding...

Anyway, it all really just made sense to me.....


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But, you have to admit, many folks seem to view it as nothingmore than a pleasurable bodily function, like eating or taking a good dump. Just watch TV.

I'm am too much of a LADY to comment on this..... lashes

And with that, I am out....Have a great Holiday....

not2fun

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