Originally Posted by Mulan
Now, can you answer my question about white lies in social interactions?

No, I will not.
It is a detour away from your self examination.

I had the same reaction. The "white lies" question was just a distraction and a deflection away from a far more important question. I'm not going to address it, either.

Manipulation sucks for everyone, GM, including you. I feel great pity for you, because you have missed out on the genuine love and trust and companionship that an honest relationship can bring you.

You think that P/A manipulation is the way to run your life and avoid trouble? How did that work for ya?

What you really avoided were real and rewarding human relationships born of love and trust - you know, like the one you could have had all those years with your wife (and that she has also been robbed of).

Honesty with all things makes life sooooo much easier and so much richer. You would be amazed.

I share your impression that what that has done is pitiful, even though no one likes to feel that they are pitied. You are right. It has not worked for me at all, and it robbed my W. It doesn't work. It has never worked for anyone, unless they somehow enjoy being miserable and causing misery to others.

When I suddenly got the compulsion to click the "message" button and explain why I was not going to accept that friend request, the only thing that crossed my mind was that I wanted her to not think I was being a jerk for not friending her. Looking back, I have to ask myself why that was so important to me. DWG said that it was part of an old pattern where I wanted to keep any woman "in reserve" as a possibility for potential future illicit contact. I keep asking myself, "Is that true? Is that what I was doing? Was that my unconscious motive?" It is part of a pattern, and this thread is all about learning to break old patterns (see Pepperband's post above). There is every reason for DWG to think that. I don't want to delude myself or ignore an opportunity to break old patterns. And even if that was not what I was thinking, even unconsciously, it is crucial for me to stop the pattern of just thinking something, deciding it must be good because I thought it, and then acting on it. I have to filter everything, every thought. The truth is that there was no reason to have to explain myself to that woman on facebook, whether she is the widow of a famous musician or not. If my boundaries are strong and conscious, I should have been recognizing her as a single woman, not an acquaintance of influence, and a simple "ignore request" was all that was necessary. I should have especially recognized that, because I was warned about her. And when she came back with another message about how offended she was, I should have instantly recognized that it was a manipulation, especially by someone with her reputation. I failed to do that, and that was bad. There is nothing else to really debate about it.

Last edited by GreenMile; 08/17/10 02:08 PM.

FWH, age 63. 24 years of narcissistic behavior, infidelity, and emotional abandonment of my BS, age 57, DancesWithGoats (DWG). D-day two years ago, leading to emotional breakdown. Been working MB program and toward spiritual transformation and personal growth since then, with some slow but real progress. DWG still with no trust, but with grief starting to subside a bit.